Sao Paulo Reports

[Nounce]

What say ye? After all, you started this, I didn't. ...

I am only agreeing to another post and mentioned my actual experience. It's not like I made stuff up to make people react.

[Nounce]

...assumed if you offered the merchant cash in Dollars he would be happy. Perhaps that's not true in this case.....

The peso depreciated about 50% within a year between my visits in terms of blue dollar. That is one reason to not hold pesos. Many merchants will accept dollars and give pretty good rate. We didn't have small bills and we did not carry anything else but pesos at that time. I remember Questner wrote a good post explaining different rates.

[The Cane]

Actually I should qualify some. At plenty of clinicas and termas in Brazil (and other sex joints too) you can settle everything up with a credit card if you want to, but I don't do that (don't have a comfort level using a card at most of those establishments), preferring instead where I can to pay direct mongering-related expenses in cash as much as possible, and other non-mongering expenses with a credit card. Besides, as has been noted before, when you settle up with a credit card at these brothels there's normally a fee added onto the bill making your outing that more expensive. That's another reason why I consider "cash mongering" to be king. You can save some money by going that route. The girls usually prefer cash. I like paying in cash. It works for me and it works for them. And if you need to "cover your trail" then there's another reason for why cash is better to pay for your mongering activities than using a credit card and having the evidence show up on a monthly statement.

[WyattEarp]

When we were asked to be paid by credit card, my immediate reaction was can we pay double? Because we don't use or carry credit card in BA. The reason is obvious to us so there wasn't even a discussion. Argentina needs dollars. When we pay 10 USD in credit card, we will pay the equivalnet of 5 USD in cash in peso. It's in the government's best interest to get tourists to pay in USD if they have a choice. The government put a large fee on Argentina credit card for USD purchase for the same reason so when you pay 10 USD in foreign purchase, it came out on the credit card bill as the equivalent of 20 USD in official exchange rate.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I've been following this Argentina conversation and I really have a hard time understanding what's really going on with these transactions. First, just let me say Argentina has almost always had fucked up currency regimes for several decades. It makes for quite an adventure or headache or both depending on your orientation.

When you first posted the merchant's credit card preference, I just thought "sure, the merchant doesn't want cash in pesos". It's been said here the girls on Seeking want Dollars and only Dollars. I just assumed if you offered the merchant cash in Dollars he would be happy. Perhaps that's not true in this case.

As far as your comment above, I have a hard time following who is buying what, with what form of payment and what the government is doing. I'm sure you know what you are doing though.

From a simple economic perspective, Argentina wins anytime a tourist goes down there and spends money cash or credit card. The only thing is the government wants tourists to stay out of the blue market and exchange (or spend with credit card) Dollars, Euros, etc. At the official rate.

[The Cane]

I've been to numerous stores covering 4 continents that are cashless (they won't accept it). Some cities where those stores are located are New York City, Shanghai, London, Stockholm and Singapore.

I've also been to many places (usually bars and restaurants) that ONLY take cash. As well as countless places that charges a CC surcharge.

I don't question anything that you say. Just know that my travels are extensive and I have never ever been "forced" to use a credit card ever, including in New York City and London (never been to Shanghai or Stockholm). Again, if it broke one way or the other, they wanted cash and would not accept a credit card for whatever reason (seems when I travel abroad I don't find myself dealing with a lot of the huge commercial concerns that you mention but more mom and pop places). I don't doubt that it can and does happen (required to use credit), and my point is not to delegitimize anybody else's experiences, but I've traveled enough to know that in the overwhelming number of circumstances, a traveler will have the option of paying with cash or credit if you stick to the beaten path in the first or second world. Vendors want to be flexible where they can and get that tourist money.

I appreciate you not wanting to dip into the "cash is king debate", and I really don't want to rehash it either, but from a pure practical standpoint it's true. I'll just leave it like this. When we go to a termas, a boate, a clinica, to Vila Mimosa or wherever we go, how many tutes whip out their credit card machine so that we can pay them for services rendered LOL? No, they want cash and that's what we give them. The same thing plays out all over the world when it comes to dealing with tutes. I'm like you. For the mongering piece (but also a lot for food and drink too) I will deal in cash, and for many of the other expenses I will use a credit card. And since on a mongering trip my primary purpose for being there is to "monger", that's what I'm spending most of the money on. Mongering which mostly involves a cash transaction between your average trick and your average tute. And since mongering is ultimately what we're all here for, I'm thoroughly convinced that the basic nature of it is what makes cash king. Now when I have to start paying tutes with a credit card OK! But until then (shrugs).

[The Cane]

It's just good nature jabbing. LOL. I don't even have any ill feeling toward you but there are things that I underestimated that casued things to go south, like this instance too.

When we were asked to be paid by credit card, my immediate reaction was can we pay double? Because we don't use and carry credit card in BA. The reason is obvious to us so there wasn't even a discussion. Argentina needs dollars. When we pay 10 USD in credit card, we will pay the equivalnet of 5 USD in cash in peso. It's in the government's best interest to get tourists to pay in USD if they have a choice. The government put a large fee on Argentina credit card for USD purchase for the same reason so when you pay 10 USD in foreign purchase, it came out on the credit card bill as the equivalent of 20 USD in official exchange rate.

The cash is king comments wasn't that bad. I was actually on the ground gathering and posting information to share. It would be something else otherwise.

I have a posting history. There were several posts about CBJ. I think there was one post sharing my experience at Casarao and I said I looked up old info after to verify my findings. I stayed a short distance away for several weeks that I frequent it several times a week so I think that gives me a good enough perspective. Most of my posts are sharing in nature and I wasn't even complaining. Instead, it is you go, but these are the situations that happened to me, see if you can do better knowing them. Most of the things I talked about is my real experience, for weeks if not months. I avoid talking things that I don't have experience about but I don't expect my experience will be the same as others.

I make some great friends here. Frequently I am humbled by others' experience and knowledge. If you tell me you never get CBJ, I believe you because I have met people like that in person, and I won't be nave to think that is what I will get either. I prefer making friends than making enemies.

What say ye? After all, you started this, I didn't. I only hope that the post versus pre-pandemic world isn't so different that we now have to compensate tutes after they've given us BBBJ / CIM with "pay by tap" to the tongue. Stick it out baby! Or, perhaps you prefer my card inserted between your butt cheeks after anal? No need to swipe as it has a chip!

[SocratesNY]

I have never been anywhere including in the United States where a merchant preferred the use of a credit card (unless it was online) much less "forced" me to use one. If anything it was the other way around (cash and no credit). Why? The reason is because merchants have to pay a fee to the credit card companies for each transaction, and they don't like that. But in today's modern age they really don't have a choice. Either accept credit cards or go out of business. Just had this very discussion yesterday with my favorite grocer.

I am not going to delve into the "Cash is King" debate. It comes down to personal preference.

I personally prefer cash for hobbying and credit card for everything else. I also don't bring too much cash with me when traveling and mainly use ATMs. I do carry spare emergency cash and the amount depends on location and length of stay.

There are lots of great advice provided by many BMs, but I think the best one the use of the Schwab card or other banks / accounts that refunds ATM fees.

I do want to disagree to some extent about merchants 1) preferring cash over CC and 2) that there aren't a lot of places that are cashless.

1).

Whether a business prefers cash or CC has a lot to do with their size, as well as geography. The larger the business, the more they prefer CC.

It is cheaper to deal with CC transactions as they don't need to worry about theft, security and it increases transaction time, which can lower labor costs. There are also other benefits that I am not listing for the business. The larger businesses also pay a smaller fee to the CC companies.

Some countries also cap CC fees / intresst rates and have more cashless options than just the major CC companies. Sweden is currently 80%+ cashless.

A smaller business, especially one that want to avoid taxes or do money laundering, would prefer cash and only offer CC payment to stay competitive.

2).

I've been to numerous stores covering 4 continents that are cashless (they won't accept cash). Some cities where those stores are located in are New York City, Shanghai, London, Stockholm and Singapore.

I've also been to many places (usually bars and restaurants) that ONLY take cash. As well as countless places that charges a CC surcharge.

[Nounce]

...but then you attack me...

It's just good nature jabbing. LOL. I don't even have any ill feeling toward you but there are things that I underestimated that casued things to go south, like this instance too.

When we were asked to be paid by credit card, my immediate reaction was can we pay double? Because we don't use or carry credit card in BA. The reason is obvious to us so there wasn't even a discussion. Argentina needs dollars. When we pay 10 USD in credit card, we will pay the equivalnet of 5 USD in cash in peso. It's in the government's best interest to get tourists to pay in USD if they have a choice. The government put a large fee on Argentina credit card for USD purchase for the same reason so when you pay 10 USD in foreign purchase, it came out on the credit card bill as the equivalent of 20 USD in official exchange rate.

The cash is king comments wasn't that bad. I was actually on the ground gathering and posting information to share. It would be something else otherwise. I think in this case, the poster was saying to insist only on a single one is not smart. What to disagree about that?

I have a posting history. There were several posts about CBJ. I think there was one post sharing my experience at Casarao and I said I looked up old info after to verify my findings. I stayed a short distance away for several weeks that I frequent it several times a week so I think that gives me a good enough perspective. Most of my posts are sharing in nature and I wasn't even complaining. Instead, it is you go, but these are the situations that happened to me, see if you can do better knowing them. Most of the things I talked about is my real experience, for weeks if not months. I avoid talking things that I don't have experience about but I don't expect my experience would be the same as others.

I prefer making friends and I have made some great friends here. Frequently I am humbled by others' experience and knowledge. If you tell me you never get CBJ, I believe you because I have met people like that in person, and I won't be naive to think that is what I will get either.

[Questner]

Same, that is until today. I landed in SP two days ago and I'm having the hardest time finding a working ATM for my Canadian TD card. Today I tried in a Bradesco, 3 times with different amounts, and all failed yet one of them showed up on my bank account. Took a bunch of time to file a claim. Tried a bunch of different ATMs, keep getting errors. Only the "24 h ATM" one with very high fees (24 real) and 1000 real limit worked for me so far.

TD has 60 days to credit you after you registered the claim. Every withdrawal attempt goes against your daily limit, keep it in mind. Once you exceed your daily limit every next attempt will show an error. Also, not every ATM at Bradesco's branch will dispense cash to you, only few machines on VISA system. Nothing you can do other than avoid busy mornings, long lines when ATMs may run out of cash, weekends etc, and always take pictures of the machine and errors screens. Do your withdrawals during Canadian business hours, mind time difference.

[The Cane]

That just shows that you don't know what you are talking about. LOL. I am not the only person at Buenos Aires at that time. It reminded me the cash is king debate here, hehe. Another ISGer was with me. That is all I need to say.

Somebody else (Eszpresszo) specifically questioned what you said about Buenos Aires (I didn't and made a general observation about what I know to be true), but then you attack me, and still didn't answer the question at that (yes humor us). No, I know darn well what I'm talking about, including what's a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world country according to modern geopolitics versus outdated definitions from the past (looks like Mr. JustIncognito's attempt to also make it look like I didn't know what I was talking about actually made him look like that). And yes, it does remind of the cash is king debate, after which you pledged to keep it shut remember? When it comes to mongering cash is king. Just make sure you're getting it out of a safe, reliable, and secure ATM machine in a 1st or 2nd world country (because you may not even find one in a 3rd world country) using a card from an institution that refunds all ATM fees. Experience gained from over 50 countries on 5 continents! You have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year too LMAO!

[Vagabundo1]

Money has changed a lot in the past 2.8 years, and you are right senor nounce.

That just shows that you don't know what you are talking about. LOL. I am not the only person at Buenos Aires at that time. It reminded me the cash is king debate here, hehe. Another ISGer was with me. That is all I need to say.

[Nounce]

I have never been anywhere including in the United States where a merchant preferred the use of a credit card (unless it was online) much less "forced" me to use one...

That just shows that you don't know what you are talking about. LOL. I am not the only person at Buenos Aires at that time. It reminded me the cash is king debate here, hehe. Another ISGer was with me. That is all I need to say.

[Axel Heyst]

Same, that is until today. I landed in SP two days ago and I'm having the hardest time finding a working ATM for my Canadian TD card. Today I tried in a Bradesco, 3 times with different amounts, and all failed yet one of them showed up on my bank account. Took a bunch of time to file a claim. Tried a bunch of different ATMs, keep getting errors. Only the "24 h ATM" one with very high fees (24 real) and 1000 real limit worked for me so far.

Darwin, if you are still having trouble withdrawing cash from Bradesco or Banco Santander using your TD Bank Debit card, I suggest you try the ATM Machine located inside the SP Grand Hyatt Hotel. It is my favorite ATM in SP because it allows withdrawals of up to 2300 br. Bradesco and Banco Santander limit me to 1500 br withdrawals even in their large branch offices on Ave Paulista and Ave Faria Lima.

Now once in a blue moon one of these ATM's may not dispense the money requested on account of it being out of cash. Shortages can happen, but the next day everything will work fine as it should. If this happens to you more than once at several different branches, I would definitely have a serious talk with your bank. I got to tell you, I am not a fan of TD Bank. I had an account with them a few years back in connection to a commercial piece of real estate I owned. I found TD Bank difficult to deal with compared to other banks I had business dealings with like Chase and Wells Fargo.

[The Cane]

Nonsense! I was in Buenos Aires for a month, beginning the end of August. Not all merchants take cards, and in fact, I noticed most prefer not to! I used my credit card at the grocery store the evening I arrived and had to produce some ID to the cashier. A discussion with my Spanish language instructor revealed that Argentinians are skittish about credit card fraud on both ends of the transaction. But, humor us a little and tell us just where you were forced to use your card, instead of cash.

I have never been anywhere including in the United States where a merchant preferred the use of a credit card (unless it was online) much less "forced" me to use one. If anything it was the other way around (cash and no credit). Why? The reason is because merchants have to pay a fee to the credit card companies for each transaction, and they don't like that. But in today's modern age they really don't have a choice. Either accept credit cards or go out of business. Just had this very discussion yesterday with my favorite grocer.

[The Cane]

https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/second_world.htm

https://www.nationsonline.org/onewor..._countries.htm

You may want to look up what 1st world, 2nd world and 3rd world actually means. You didn't monger in any / many 2nd world countries.

And seconds and thirds (and even fourths). First, you don't know everywhere in the world I've been and where I've mongered. Second, the links you posted are just one opinion. There are others that I prefer to follow, and that I think are more in tune with current times than the traditional definition you cite, such as the one found in this link:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/second-world.asp

"But the term 'second world' has also been used to cover countries that are more stable and more developed than the offensive term 'third-world' countries, but less-stable and less-developed than first world countries. Examples of second-world countries by this definition include almost all of Latin and South America, Turkey, Thailand, South Africa, and many others. Investors sometimes refer to second world countries that appear to be headed toward first world status as 'emerging markets' instead."

Third, you may want to fully educate and inform yourself before you try educating and informing anybody else. And fourth, there's even a designation known as "the fourth world", but I'm not going there. You have a happy holiday season!