Sao Paulo Reports

[The Cane]

NO! The Schwab card or any debit card, even high end accounts, like Chase Private Client / Citi Gold, does not reimburse "currency conversion" IF you accept the ATM's conversion.

ALWAYS decline the ATM's conversion option.

However, a few ATMs charge an ATM "fee" based on percentage of withdrawal amount. The one in the Grand Hyatt Sao Paulo charges like 12%. I also believe another one in GRU charges 10%. I think it's the one by baggage claim.

I've been charged ATM fees in those instances of 50-60 USD, as I took out about R2,500. These high fees were reimbursed by Schwab and my main checking account.

So for those ATMs, if you accept their currency conversion, you get fucked both ways. On the ATM fees and the currency conversion.

Damn SocratesNY! You dropping all kinds of good knowledge up in here today LOL!

[SocratesNY]

Oh interesting. I have the Schwab card and its great for the 20 R ATM fees, but I always assumed it wouldn't work for those percentage based charges. You've seen it reimburse currency conversion charges yourself?

NO! The Schwab card or any debit card, even high end accounts, like Chase Private Client / Citi Gold, does not reimburse "currency conversion" IF you accept the ATM's conversion.

ALWAYS decline the ATM's conversion option.

However, a few ATMs charge an ATM "fee" based on percentage of withdrawal amount. The one in the Grand Hyatt Sao Paulo charges like 12%. I also believe another one in GRU charges 10%. I think it's the one by baggage claim.

I've been charged ATM fees in those instances of 50-60 USD, as I took out about R2,500. These high fees were reimbursed by Schwab and my main checking account.

So for those ATMs, if you accept their currency conversion, you get fucked both ways. On the ATM fees and the currency conversion.

[SocratesNY]

Thanks for all interesting tibits on BA. As a recent frequent traveler to SP, Buenos Aires has intrigued me.

BA has many pluses for me. It is a short hop away, is a large cosmopolitan city (lots of good restaurants, high end hotels and presumably decent infrastructure) and Spanish speaking (My Spanish is way better than my Porto).

However, the ISG Argentina forums is a graveyard for recent info. The confusing / more complex exchange rate system (having to use Western Union or street black market for best rates) is an annoying obstacle.

There also doesn't seem to be places like Scandallo in BA. I prefer to see the girl in person and interact with her to see if we have chemistry and whether my service requests can be met by her. That is why I usually avoid online incall / outcalls escorts and usually only use brothels / clinicas as a backup option. At least in those, you can see how a girl really looks in person before deciding.

I also don't have the time or flexibility to go the SB / Seeking route. I am usually only in the city for a few days at a time so it's not the best ROI for my limited time.

I know this is the SP forum, but due to the recent discussion by knowledgeable BA mongers, I want to ask:

If I was looking to make a 2-3 day side trip to BA from SP.

1) Are there hobbying venues like Scandallo, strip clubs, etc. That you can meet and chat up a girl before taking her back to your hotel?

2) Is the average service level comparable to Brazil?

3) is Western Union the best way to get a good rate on ARS? I presume I shouldn't send more than I expect to use, as it'll be very difficult to impossible to switch back to USD.

4) Are the nice 5 star hotels in BA girl friendly?

5) Do the nice hotels and restaurants accept ARS or only USD due to their inflation? I figure if I use a credit card and pay in either ARS or USD, I would be getting the shitty "official" rate.

6) With all the extra logistical obstacles BA has compared to SP, is it even worth it to go for a short trip, especially when the cost of hobbying there seems comparable.

It seems that if I decide to go, my main expectations should be to explore the city and eat at some nice restaurants, with hobbying playing second fiddle. Or am I wrong?

Feel free to DM me if it's more appropriate.

[Hobbying]

Not sure which of your statement you feel "still holds true. "?

If you feel you can get ANY or MOST girls in Scandallo for R400-R500 due to a combination of:

1) That's what all the locals pay.

2) People who pay more than that are horrible negotiators.

3) People who pay more are paying a "Gringo" fee / price.

4) Porto skills leads to lower cost and if you can speak it, you shouldn't pay more than R400-R500.

5) Any more than R4-500 means "they probably don't like you".

Then you are IMHO either 1) trying to egg people on / put them down. E. g. , a "troll" 2) seeing half the picture and live in a philosophical bubble or 3) over exaggerating the situation for a variety of reasons, one of which is probably to feel superior to others.

I do believe some of the points 1 to 5 laid out above have a grain of truth to them.

1). Some locals do pay less than Gringos at Scandallo, but usually not, and many pay more. 95+% of the clients are local RICH Brazilian. THEY set the market price that the girls can command. Sao Paulo has the most millionaires in South America. You can see this concentration of wealth all over the club, from the clothes and shoes they wear to the bottles of JW Blue / Macallan 18 to 30 yr on the table.

If you think these guys, sporting expensive tailored clothing and drinking bottles costing 5,000 to R25,000, will tell a hot girl they want, that they will only pay her R4-500 for the hour. And not a real more, then you are welcome to your fantasy. These guys are used to instant gratification and have the means to get it.

I've spoken to countless Brazilian local clients at Scandallo and they usually fall into one of three types: 1) Just hanging / drinking with friends, but might get a girl's number for later / cheaper meeting outside the club 2) rather spend less on girls at a more "local" / less high end place, so just come to Scandallo to hang or look and 3) Professional guys who tell me they usually pay R600 to R1,500 for the hour and from R1,200 to R3,000 to go back to their hotel / home. Depending on how much he likes the girl. This last group makes up the majority, if not the super majority of the local guys that I spoke. To.

2). How you negotiate can obviously affect how much you pay. But not to your price point with any regularity.

3). There can definitely be a Gringo and sometimes Asian "tax" involved. One reason is language skills, as a lot of girls at Scandallo don't speak English, so those that can have a leg up and can charge more. There's also a perception among some girls that a lot of the Asians that visit are rich and more liberal with their spending, and it doesn't matter whether they are locals or visiting businessmen. Then there is the stereotype that they are more gentle and have smaller cocks so an easier lay.

Nice summary and YMMV is true! People pay what is comfortable for their budget / income. In the end, its sex in exchange for something of value, both client and girl have their own values. Some girls don't always want money, they'll take other gifts.

Having gone to Scandallo, Bomboa, and Photo for 10 years I have never gotten anything lower than 500 R for an hour regardless of the exchange rate. 500 R back then for a solid 9 will cost at least 700 R now taking into consideration inflation in Brasil has always been high. But 10 years ago the exchange was 2:1 and now its 5:1 so its all relative.

This is why I always say don't pay more than 700 for 1 hour or 1500 for overnight and people that think its too high then go somewhere else like clinicas or Connection.

[Steve 9696]

So good to see Socrates and TedF back here! Socrates you are spot on with your pricing editorial and especially the point about price insensitivity. Yes you can often work hard to get the price down, but frankly a lot of guys have the coin to not give two fucks. In the US I am regularly paying $400-500 an evening (on Seeking) so it's all about perspective. And great boots on the ground report. Kinda amazed the top shelf pricing experiment worked out but glad it did.

I've gotten to know Ted a bit from his first tentative Clinica steps some years ago to a seasoned multi-country expert. Bear in mind that his Scandallo take is flavored by his extensive dip in the sugar babies pool. I've been in the sugar babies pool for all of COVID and let me tell you Scandallo and German FKK never look quite the same after you have had some real multi-day GFE that goes beyond the bedroom and is deeply emotionally satisfying as well.

Don't get me wrong. I still go to Scandallo and the FKK and enjoy myself but never quite the same as the home town "girlfriend" who runs to you and smothers you in kisses and does the doe eyes BJ just the way you like it because she knows how U like it and (apparently) adores you as much as you do her.

[The Cane]

I have heard this more than once in Brazil. I suffered for two weeks last time I was there too. Paid more than USD 300 to see a doctor and ran a bunch of tests but did not show anything.

After my very first trip to Brazil, I got a really bad sore throat. Then, I picked up a tip from one of the guys, which was to gargle with Listerine. I started doing that regularly during any subsequent mongering trips I took to any part of the world, and I never got a sore throat again. I never leave home without my Listerine in my bags!

[The Cane]

As always with this hobby and in life, YMMV. A Brad Pitt lookalike will get a different experience at Scandallo than a Harvey Weinstein clone.

Now that was an essay worthy of "Socrates"! Hahahaha!

[The Cane]

After scanning your very long no-ending essay, my statement still holds true. I'm putting the price out there because its a factor for many here. You can believe the numbers or not believe. Your money and time. GFE is another factor that many people here (maybe except you) considers and paying higher most likely won't change any of that. I'm fluent in portuguese and have talked with a lot of the people there and around Brazil and can say what I said without a doubt. Have a good day.

I'm sorry that my "essay" was to long and hard for you to read. But had you indeed read it, then you would have known that nowhere did I deny that price is a factor for many here. That would be a silly assertion to make. Because the fact of the matter is that it's a factor for almost everybody here, including me. But the point is that everybody's price is different, and that you had ought to take into account where it is you're trying to buy, and how things work there. You have a good day too!

[SocratesNY]

After scanning your very long no-ending essay, my statement still holds true.

I'm putting the price out there because its a factor for many here. You can believe the numbers or not believe. Your money and time. GFE is another factor that many people here (maybe except you) considers and paying higher most likely won't change any of that. I'm fluent in portuguese and have talked with a lot of the people there and around Brazil and can say what I said without a doubt. Have a good day.

Not sure which of your statement you feel "still holds true. "?

If you feel you can get ANY or MOST girls in Scandallo for R400-R500 due to a combination of:

1) That's what all the locals pay.

2) People who pay more than that are horrible negotiators.

3) People who pay more are paying a "Gringo" fee / price.

4) Porto skills leads to lower cost and if you can speak it, you shouldn't pay more than R400-R500.

5) Any more than R4-500 means "they probably don't like you".

Then you are IMHO either 1) trying to egg people on / put them down. E. g. , a "troll" 2) seeing half the picture and live in a philosophical bubble or 3) over exaggerating the situation for a variety of reasons, one of which is probably to feel superior to others.

I do believe some of the points 1 to 5 laid out above have a grain of truth to them.

1). Some locals do pay less than Gringos at Scandallo, but usually not, and many pay more. 95+% of the clients are local RICH Brazilian. THEY set the market price that the girls can command. Sao Paulo has the most millionaires in South America. You can see this concentration of wealth all over the club, from the clothes and shoes they wear to the bottles of JW Blue / Macallan 18 to 30 yr on the table.

If you think these guys, sporting expensive tailored clothing and drinking bottles costing 5,000 to R25,000, will tell a hot girl they want, that they will only pay her R4-500 for the hour. And not a real more, then you are welcome to your fantasy. These guys are used to instant gratification and have the means to get it.

I've spoken to countless Brazilian local clients at Scandallo and they usually fall into one of three types: 1) Just hanging / drinking with friends, but might get a girl's number for later / cheaper meeting outside the club 2) rather spend less on girls at a more "local" / less high end place, so just come to Scandallo to hang or look and 3) Professional guys who tell me they usually pay R600 to R1,500 for the hour and from R1,200 to R3,000 to go back to their hotel / home. Depending on how much he likes the girl. This last group makes up the majority, if not the super majority of the local guys that I spoke. To.

2). How you negotiate can obviously affect how much you pay. But not to your price point with any regularity.

3). There can definitely be a Gringo and sometimes Asian "tax" involved. One reason is language skills, as a lot of girls at Scandallo don't speak English, so those that can have a leg up and can charge more. There's also a perception among some girls that a lot of the Asians that visit are rich and more liberal with their spending, and it doesn't matter whether they are locals or visiting businessmen. Then there is the stereotype that they are more gentle and have smaller cocks so an easier lay.

4). As alluded to above, language skills definitely play part in the negotiation. A girl that can speak other languages can charge more. A girl that can only speak Porto might be more comfortable with a local guy so might charge them less, and charge more to the Non-Porto speaker, as it's more mentally draining to go with the latter. Sort of a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation!

5). Of course how much they like you affects the cost. If they like the way you look and have good chemistry together, it definitely can drive down the price.

With all of that said, do I think you can get a girl at Scandallo for R4-500 for the hour?

YES, but RARELY and usually under a unique set of circumstances. Throw enough darts on the board, and you will hit the bullseye eventually.

My friend and I have had some great deals at Scandallo, from the occasional R500 offer for the hour to R800-R1,000 to go back to hotel for 8 to 10 hours. All the way up to 24 hours for multiple day dates.

Those good deals usually occur because of a combination of:

1) The girl likes you a lot.

2) you are getting a repeat customer discount (some even offered free sessions, but we turned those down as we didn't want to blur the line.).

3) It's a slow time of day and they want to get a session in while business is dead.

4) they are inexperienced / new and don't known what the club market rate is.

5) Not the most attractive girl and can't command the going rate with regularity.

In summary, I believe the current "normal" rate one would expect to pay at Scandallo is R600 to R800 for the hour and R1,200 to R1,500 for an overnight. Of course that range can differ based on many factors from appearance, both yours and hers, chemistry together, day and time, the alignment of the stars, the moon and the sun, and everything mentioned earlier in this novel!

As always with this hobby and in life, YMMV. A Brad Pitt lookalike will get a different experience at Scandallo than a Harvey Weinstein clone.

[Fewdie]

After scanning your very long no-ending essay, my statement still holds true.

I'm putting the price out there because its a factor for many here. You can believe the numbers or not believe. Your money and time. GFE is another factor that many people here (maybe except you) considers and paying higher most likely won't change any of that. I'm fluent in portuguese and have talked with a lot of the people there and around Brazil and can say what I said without a doubt. Have a good day.

Despite your claim, the exchange rate absolutely is a relevant consideration. That's the real world reality of the situation on the ground. And an offer of 500 reals is absolutely not competitive for a top hottie at a place like Scandallo given current exchange rates. When the rate was 2 to 1, 500 reals would get you a lower end 6, and 400 reals would get you laughed out of the place! So think about it. But the solution is simple. If you don't want to pay Scandallo prices, then just don't go to Scandallo versus coming here and scolding mongers who do choose to go there about what they pay Scandallo tutes. It's just that simple. Don't fight a losing battle against the system. Don't fight the man. Because nobody is really listening. The clinicas are you! Because you see, just like cars (Buicks, BMWs, and Bentleys), the value of all women is not the same for each and every one of them. You may not think it's worth it to pay that kind of money for that "expensive ride". But, plenty of other people do. And will. I used to say the same thing about air travel too. First Class / Business Class isn't worth it. I'm flying on the same damn plane going to the same damn place and paying so much less riding back here! Well, after I flew Business Class for the first time, there was no happily going back to Coach Class ever again! Now, I'm not one of these guys who thinks I'm getting more just because I'm paying more, especially when it comes to pussy. But, I do know how to recognize what represents value and worth to me. So, count me in at Scandallo! With current exchange rates always being taken into consideration! Hell, even if you're sticking to the clinicas or wherever you're going overseas you should do that! What is the value of your currency in the market where you want to purchase a good or service? That's the way the real world works. Not that all pussy is only worth 500 reals max, and that's it! There are other factors that must be taken into consideration, including the current exchange rate.

[SocratesNY]

Thanks to TedFerguson, Tochka, JZeleznik, and NiceFirst for your reports.

I just came back from a trip last week and already missing SP. Thankfully, I get to go back in 2 months. I wasn't going to post regarding my recent trip, as I've done my fair share of reports on SP, but I keep learning / experiencing something new and cool each trip. Your reports also makes me want to give back.

Clinicas:

Patricia the blonde receptionist at Prime is a riot and Julia the receptionist at 57 is great and speaks great English. I also experienced the R10 "theft" by the brunette receptionist at Prime previously, but she stopped doing that on repeat visits.

When I started visiting clinicas on my first trip to SP, I would get a presentation and then walk / Uber to next one if I don't like what I saw. I would just do a circuit of Prime, 57, Miruna, Abbobora, and Enjoy.

Since that first visit, I have gained a bit more patience. It helps to get in their Whatsapp status updates. They will add you when you visit in person. It is also a good idea to check their "lineup book" at reception, listing the girls who are scheduled / started working that day, before you leave. It gives you an idea who / how many are busy in the room and wasn't present during your presentation. Both helps me decide whether to stay and wait to see whether the other occupied girls appeal to me.

I've also met many cool dudes while waiting, as we traded advice on who gives good service, who is hot, what other good places to go, etc.

On a final note, many of the popular girls get booked up by regulars via phone / WhatsApp appointments. So if you like someone, but they aren't available or no rooms are free. Just book an appointment and return later or for the next day!

That is what I eventually had to do with my favorite clinica girl, Jade from Prime. She rocked my world during one of my earlier trips, but I had trouble booking her spontaneously on subsequent trips. So this time, I made an appointment. And she hasn't changed a bit. Best GFE / PSE service of any clinica girl I've had in SP, and probably top 3 to 5 of any Brazilian P4 P encounter, which is saying a lot, considering all the amazing experiences I've had in Brazil.

Scandallo:

Sorry and also very surprised to hear about some of the recent reports about subpar talent or unmet expectations at Scandallo. I've been to SP 8 x in the last 15 months so probably been to Scandallo 20+ occasions during that period.

Since the first visit, which my friend and I found to be amazing, I've seen the talent at Scandallo, both in quality and quantity, improve with each subsequent trip. That has a lot to do with the pandemic becoming an endemic, the city lifting restrictions, and more girls being comfortable working and clients visiting the clubs.

This culminated in my most recent trip where I met a girl at Scandallo that was 9. 9 in looks in my book (Brooklyn Decker face and Paulina Porizkova body), spoke good English, was witty, intelligent, elegant and stylish. And to top it off, she was amazing in bed. My only regret was not meeting her until my last night in town. We plan to meet up in future visits. There is one drawback to her, which I will mention later in this post.

As for the rest of the talent in Scandallo last week. I have to say it was off the charts AMAZING! I usually visit SP from Thursday to Monday, but this trip I was there from Tuesday to Friday. And wow. Tuesday and Wednesday are super busy with high end talent. Those 2 days and Thursdays are probably the best days to go to Scandallo. The talent drops off a bit on Friday and then more on Saturday. Monday is probably the slowest day at the club.

Besides my newfound ATF at Scandallo, there were at least 7 to 10 other girls I considered to be 9+ on looks. And probably 3-4 of them to be 9. 5+. And I consider myself to be a tough grader. I generally go for young girl with a pretty / model like face and thin / porportional bodies. What they call gazelles. But I saw tons of voluptuous bombshells and slutty PSE looks as well. Basically all body types and looks to suit any taste. There were easily 150+, if not 200+ girls working on Tues to Thursday last week. Of those, there were lots of 7's and 8's as well. Only a super minority would I consider ro be 6 or below.

Daytime is a bit more quiet and has a relaxed vibe, and things don't get hopping until 10:30 to 11 pm and kept going strong until at least 3 am (the lastest I stayed before leaving with a girl).

You usually catch a different type of girl who works the daytime shift. Many have family obligations or pretend they work a regular job, while workimg in Scandallo. There are more fly by night girls, who are just trying it out, need a quick cash infusion and then stop, etc. Who work during the day shift. There are also less girls working during the day. This can lead to a wide range of talent levels. I've met some drop dead gorgeous girls who did this for just a few weeks to a month and stopped. But also saw a lot of girls that wouldn't interest me even if it was free during the day. Those definitely choose to work during the day shift due to less competition.

I find that a lot of the best talent shows up between 6 to 8 pm, as they can catch the after work crowd, who wants a quickie before going home, while also not having to stay too late to make their quota in terms of time spent in club, rooms or a "Saida" for a free invite back.

Then you have your creme de la creme talent, that can show up at 10,11 pm. Or midnight and not worry about their admission or free invite, as they are so hot and in demand, that they can guarantee a few high priced rooms or a saida. These girls come and go as they please and don't care much about the free invite, so don't work the full 5 days. They often have regulars who book them for the night or take them on international trips so only work when there is a gap in their schedule and want to work. Many of those girls get snapped up fast in the club as soon as they arrive.

My new ATF girl falls into that last category. She is crazy hot and I saw her on the previous 2 nights, but both nights she was with a guy as soon as I noticed her. Each of the two previous nights, the guy partied with her for an hour or two and then they left the club together. On my last night in town, I made it my mission to find her in the club, so politely turned down all offers. I did meet one other girl I liked and told her I was waiting on someone else and got her number. We ended up having a very good afternoon rendezvous in my place the next day before my flight in the evening.

Going back to my new ATF girl, I saw her just before midnight, arriving at the club from the elevator. I quickly approached her and introduced myself. I found her to have good English skills and we decided to go to the outdoor patio for a drink.

We hit it off and soon I turned the discussion to compensation and she floored me somewhat with her pricing. She wanted R1,000 for the hour (quite normal as a first ask) and R3,000 for overnight (way more than I've ever been asked for). I told her it wasn't my first rodeo and I usually pay R5-700 for the hour and R1,000 to R1,500 for overnight. She politely told me that's them and this is her price. She wouldn't budge even when I offered R800 for the hour or R2,000 for overnight, numbers that would get a guaranteed yes from 99.99% of the girls there.

I decided to pay more than I've ever paid for an hour in Brazil, as she ticked all my boxes, and the FX rate is in my favor. 10 minutes into our session, I was thinking of extending to 90 min! And 45 min into it, I decided to pay her price of R3,000 for overnight, as she was so good in bed. Her price is 2 x the cost of the highest I've ever paid a boates girl for overnight.

I wasn't sure If she would live up to her billing for an overnight, but to my surprise, she was totally worth it to me. She had incredible endurance and passion. Her service was the best I've had in Brazil. And she was the hottest working girl I met in Brazil as well. That rare combination, as well as her witty and sweet personality makes her a rare unicorn in this line of work.

I almost took a pass on her due to her overnight pricing (I prefer overnight to on-site, as I usually have a nice suite at a 5 star hotel), but am glad I decided to sample her for the hour and doubly glad I took her back to my hotel, as she gave me one of the top 5 hobbying nights of my life.

[Nounce]

I have heard this more than once in Brazil. I suffered for two weeks last time I was there too. Paid more than USD 300 to see a doctor and ran a bunch of tests but did not show anything.

The below are my impressions after a week in So Paulo, and two weeks in Buenos Aires. Both are amazing cities with tons of attractive women. ...

I had some luck in BA. Met a 18 or 19 yr old, and she didn't even ask for condom. I think food is much better than Colombia and good steaks are cheap. It looks like I may cross paths with you soon.

[JZeleznik]

Having a checking account that reimburse ATM fees adds lots of flexibility. I've had fees as as much as 10-12% (up to 60-70 USD) reimbursed.

Oh interesting. I have the Schwab card and its great for the 20 R ATM fees, but I always assumed it wouldn't work for those percentage based charges. You've seen it reimburse currency conversion charges yourself?

[SocratesNY]

Having a checking account that reimburse ATM fees adds lots of flexibility. I've had fees as as much as 10-12% (up to 60-70 USD) reimbursed.

I personally recommend getting a Schwab or TD bank account for international hobbying, as both have 0 to low minimum balance requirements and reimburse ALL ATM fees.

Make sure to decline conversion on ATM withdrawals Always let your bank determine the exchange rate, which will be close to market rate. When using a credit card, also make sure you are paying in BRL and not USD / Euro, etc.

I personally prefer Bradesco or Satander ATMs in the city, as they have minimal ATM fees and almost always let your bank do the conversion. I also occasionally use the ATM at GRU near the Starbucka in Terminal 3 just before you exit. My frienda and I have used this bank of ATMs without issue / fraud / card cloning, etc.

[Nordico]

I used to say the same thing about air travel too. First Class / Business Class isn't worth it. I'm flying on the same damn plane going to the same damn place and paying so much less riding back here! Well, after I flew Business Class for the first time, there was no happily going back to Coach Class ever again!

I know what you are talking about. Today I checked flights to Germany with Lufthansa and to my surprise the business class was cheaper than the economy class. European business class is not very good, but still worth paying little bit more to avoid the lines and not having anybody sitting next to you etc.