Sosua Reports

[Cagep1967]

I see I've stirred up more conversation.

Mr. E, you are correct I have a somewhat normal life. Not normal by US standards but I live quite well down here. Right now I'm in my air conditioned office with my 2 cell phones, one with Skype and a US number the other my local DR number.

I conduct business on a world wide scale, right now dealing with companies in Canada, US, UK. I am a home worker and everyone thinks I'm in NJ.

I have a housekeeper making my lunch. Woke up to a BJ and fuck from my live in novia, who right now is at the university. Tonight I'm going to the Casino, dinner and my 3 some (I hope).

Tomorrow probably the beach, probably palenque, no chicas no touts not many vendors. Sunday to my friends for drinking and dominoes. All very cool and relaxed.

All my friends here are true friends in every sense of the word. They give without expecting anything in return. The most they've asked from me is to bring something from the states that they either can't get here or is too expensive, they always pay me back. I'm included in most family functions, I know their relatives, their kids.

The truth is there are good people, and bad, everywhere.

[Oakie]

I live in Santo Domingo. I still have residence in the states, so I am not technically an ex-pat. I'm here 3-4 weeks at a time and leave for a few day to conduct business face to face with clients. Most of the time I work remotely, all I need is internet access a computer and phone. I make a very comfortable living and am in my mid 40's. Very gringo looking, I speak dominican spanish fluently (now).

I'm a little busy now and will continue my report later.

Thanks, that sounds a lot more encouraging.

Looking forward to hearing more!

(And by all means feel free to "rant". LOL)

[Wrx2005]

I do my best not to rub my so called 'wealth' in their faces. I don't dress fancy (although I don't wear tank tops and flip flops either). I don't wear expensive watches, use expensive phones, wear big gold chains, or use my iPad outside of the hotel. I don't pay for a beer with a $2000 peso note.

Exactly what do you mean by not rubbing your so called wealth in their faces? When you mentioned you don't dress fancy, don't wear expensive watches, don't use expensive phones, don't wear big gold chains, don't use your ipad outside of your hotel, and don't pay for beers with $2000 peso notes. Were those supposed to be examples of how you don't rub wealth "in their faces"? If so, what is your reasoning for deciding you should do that? Is this from preconceived ideas of how you feel enough dominicans think / feel? Or did you have some sort of experience to make you feel the need to make those adjustments? Or was it from advice you received from friends or forums like this? What is it?

Part of why I am asking, is because quite often it appears some people assume and have preconceived ideas of how others may think about them. So they invent ways they think will counter any adverse behavior or treatment. Or simply hoping they will be accepted more.

The part that really stands out for me, is your decision not to use an expensive phone, not to use your IPAD outside of your hotel or not paying for a beer with a $2000 peso. If those were part of the examples of you not rubbing wealth in their faces, that IMO is taking things to an extreme. I can understand you may be kinda new to Sosua and you respect much of the info you learned from forums, but is it really that important/necessary to do that? Exactly what damage or mistreatment do you suspect you'd garner if you didn't take those measures?

If you were to go to most of the restaurants in a tourist area, including at the playa, everywhere you go people are using their phones, ipads, laptops, cameras etc. All the guys I spent time with in the DR in the last 3 yrs use their devices. And I / we werent thinking we were rubbing wealth in anyones face just by using an expensive phone, IPAD or laptop. 1st of all, many dominicans come from all over to be in a touristic area, like Sosua. They expect to see people on vacation with the stuff you may consider so called "wealth". If they don't like it or have a problem with it, then they shouldn't come. But so called wealth is what draws them to come to where you vacation. So why should anybody be concerned about offending anyone? I can see one not wearing an expensive watch / jewelry, or not dressing fancy.

But thats mostly because fancy watches / jewelry, or fancy clothes, is not needed or practical for an extremely casual environment. A phone, IPAD, laptop on the other hand can be very useful for those that use them. As far as paying for a beer with the $2000? I just think it makes sense to use a smaller bill. It doesn't have to be about trying to avoid rubbing wealth in ones face. The truth is, a lot of establishments don't like large bills for small purchases. And not having small currency can even cost you more if not careful. Like taking a moto that costs 25 pesos, but all you got is 100 peso bill. Motos are notorious for saying they have no change.

Even in the states, if you bust out with a $100 dollar bill for an item that cost $2, the proprietor might have a problem with it, or refuse to accept it. In fact, in the states you might find a sign telling you they don't accept certain denomination bills. It could be $50 or $100. In the DR they seem to have the same policy but without signs present. So, producing a $2000 peso for a beer is impractical for an environment that avoids such bills for small purchases, but not necessarily is paying with one (for a small purchase) rubbing wealth in anyones face. If a person still can't help from feeling that way, they can tell the person they are going to give a fat ass tip ($500 or $1, 000 peso) , I'm sure when you rub that wealth into their pockets instead of their faces, aint nobody going to have a problem with that. I'll await your feedback.

[Mr Enternational]

Cage, you have built a regular life so things will be different for you than for the typical monger who says he wants to live in DR. You have an "everyday life" routine. Most guys just want to come and chase women. I'm about to leave my buddy's in Santiago now. He is 60 and retired and moves all around DR. He has lived in Sosua, Cabarere, Boca Chica, Santo Domingo, and East Santo Domingo. He was just complaining about how he is tired of this place. But he has no normal routine. All he does is get on the internet to find girls to come over.

Then, he constantly complains that they have too many kids and are after money. He has one on the way from Navarette right now. A minute ago I had him ride with me to drop my one of my girls off at work. She is a DJ at a radio station. He was so anxious because he didn't want to miss he girl. (He has been waiting on her all day. She was supposed to be here earlier but you know how they are.) I told him to trust me. If she has taken the bus all the way from Navarette then if she beats us back she is still going to be there waiting when we return. When we were riding back he said how he had never been to this part of Santiago. LOL. He is a 5 minute WALK from downtown, yet in 10 weeks he has never been to downtown Santiago. I was like are you fucking kidding me!

[Wrx2005]

Thanks for your comment!

You're welcome.

[Phuquer]

Crime is a part of the DR, but so was growing up in Brooklyn, NY. I used to wake up to gun shots in the middle of the night, my apartment got broken into 3 times, I was a victim of attempted robbery, I had the grill from my car stolen twice.

Here, I've never been robbed, my car has not be broken tampered with.

I'm a little busy now and will continue my report later.

Excellent post and definitely on the money. Bad things can happen anywhere you go. You have found a way to minimize your exposure to risk by limiting the number of visits to tourist areas. I am sure you have a strategy to minimize your risks when you do venture into the seedy areas, and I am looking forward to reading your suggestions.

[Cagep1967]

Since, as you can tell, I'm an unabashed fan of the DR, I have considered moving down there semi-permanently. I'm at retirement age, and I could manage it fairly easily.

But, all the expats I have met down there, hotel owners, bar owners, retirees etc, have had a lot of bad experiences, assaults, home robberies, threats and so on. They'll tell you about it if you ask them. Some have gone home. Others have learned to live with it.

I came to the conclusion that, even with good security provided by apartment and condo management, I wouldn't be able to live in a permanent state of alert. A routine walk every day could be an invite.

As for buying a house on the hills outside town, forget it. I've talked to folks who keep a gun, and dogs. You are a mark for anyone who needs money badly, and one day they'll need it badly enough to come to your place.

So, for me, a vacation is one thing, a permanent life down there is just a risk I wouldn't want to take, and that's a shame.

If others have a different take, I'd love to hear from them.

I live in Santo Domingo. I still have residence in the states, so I am not technically an ex-pat. I'm here 3-4 weeks at a time and leave for a few day to conduct business face to face with clients. Most of the time I work remotely, all I need is internet access a computer and phone. I make a very comfortable living and am in my mid 40's. Very gringo looking, I speak dominican spanish fluently (now).

I started to respond to this thread earlier but it started to sound like a rant and I never posted my response.

I live in a gated community w / 24 hour armed security in the Capitol right off of 27th de Febrero. The community is populated by mostly middle class dominican families. I've been at this location for about 1 1/2 years. Before, I rented in an area that was considered by most to be a barrio. However, the people that I met in that neighborhood have become life long friends, in every sense of the word. I stop by to visit several times a week as do they.

My thought is this, in the touristy locations is where you see the dregs of Dominican Society. This is an area that largely derives its income from vice tourism, with that you get the prostitutes, pimps, touts and every other hustler looking for a peso. The money the tourist will bring in is known, if you are on vacation you will have money to spend on things the people in this area have to offer.

I don't live near a beach, I don't live in a fancy condo. When I do go to the beach it is a local beach, almost no tourists. I don't get the touts, chicas looking to come with me, people selling their wares. Sometimes I need some tourist crap, when friends or family visit, then I venture into those areas.

Now with all that said, the crime I have been personally victim to was getting the batteries to my inversol robbed. I had an iron cage created for them but I did not lock it so I guess that would be my fault for making it so easy. A lesson learned for 16K pesos.

Crime is a part of the DR, but so was growing up in Brooklyn, NY. I used to wake up to gun shots in the middle of the night, my apartment got broken into 3 times, I was a victim of attempted robbery, I had the grill from my car stolen twice.

Here, I've never been robbed, my car has not be broken tampered with.

I'm a little busy now and will continue my report later.

[Grub1]

The valuables that you can't avoid bringing are your passport, driver's license, cash, and a debit or credit card, and managing these items and not losing them is all the stress I want.

I agree with this. It can be a real hassle just keeping up with these things while doing all the activities that the area has to offer. The time's I have been here the place kept me busy enough I had no need to do any more research on a computer.

[Oakie]

Since, as you can tell, I'm an unabashed fan of the DR, I have considered moving down there semi-permanently. I'm at retirement age, and I could manage it fairly easily.

But, all the expats I have met down there, hotel owners, bar owners, retirees etc, have had a lot of bad experiences, assaults, home robberies, threats and so on. They'll tell you about it if you ask them. Some have gone home. Others have learned to live with it.

I came to the conclusion that, even with good security provided by apartment and condo management, I wouldn't be able to live in a permanent state of alert. A routine walk every day could be an invite.

As for buying a house on the hills outside town, forget it. I've talked to folks who keep a gun, and dogs. You are a mark for anyone who needs money badly, and one day they'll need it badly enough to come to your place.

So, for me, a vacation is one thing, a permanent life down there is just a risk I wouldn't want to take, and that's a shame.

If others have a different take, I'd love to hear from them.

[Oakie]

It is just a discusssion about different styles of risk management.

People learn from their own life experience and tend to bring those ideas with them to other areas of their existence. Thus people have different ideas about safe mongering, because there is no definitive professional literature or research on the subject.

Thing is, risk management is an argument to which there is not one correct answer. That was my only point. We all have different value systems.

For example early on I was asked by friends if Sosua was safe. I had travelled all over the Island (with GF) and felt as safe as if I was home. One guy went on my advice and had nothing but trouble. He came back complaining of a "typhoid outbreak" (overblown report in the local press during the Haiti earthquake). Expats being murdered, etc, and said he'd been totally ripped off by locals. It was the 'worst place in the world" to vacation, he told everybody, and I was looking rather stupid for telling them how good it was.

I'm asked by a friend if it's OK to park on my street when visiting me. In 3 years we've never had a parking ticket, but you guessed it, when they left there it was.

I take my laptop and an "expensive" phone down there with me to stay seamlessly in touch with work, but I also prefer a room on the ground floor, and with those sliding patio doors, I know I'm taking a risk right there, but that gear is supplied by the company, and it would be replaced, so I'm not concerned.

But could I recommend my preference to others? No, of course not. I learned the hard way.

[Phuquer]

All this talk about safety, risk management, scams, and stuff got me thinking.

Yes, I did some research before this trip. There is a ton of valuable information on this and other message boards. A lot of the veterans have posted tons of useful information that is of great service to first timers in the area, such as myself.

Yes I did hook up with some DR veterans, including some members of this board. That is definitely not my usual way of doing things, though. In all my travels around the globe, I have only met a couple of ISG posters. I usually travel alone.

Having said that, I found Sosua to be extremely easy, and the information I gathered was for the most part definitely helpful but not necessary. I try to have a very good attitude, I don't accept help when I am not the one requesting it (there is usually some kind of scam involved). I don't hand out tips to anyone who asks for tips.

I try to learn the language wherever I go. That means learning some Thai when I travel to Thailand, learning a bit of Chinese for my trips to China and Macau, picking up some phrases for my trips to Japan. You don't have to learn a lot, but people appreciate when you try to learn about their language and culture. I am a native Spanish speaker, and I grew up among Dominicans so Sosua was just like going home.

I am in no way rich, but I know I earn more than most in Sosua. Therefore, I do my best not to rub my so called 'wealth' in their faces. I don't dress fancy (although I don't wear tank tops and flip flops either). I don't wear expensive watches, use expensive phones, wear big gold chains, or use my iPad outside of the hotel. I don't pay for a beer with a $2000 peso note.

I am not above getting a haircut among the chicas getting ready for work. I don't mind buying a chica that has been sitting and talking to me for a 1/2 hour a beer. I do let her know from the get go that I am not going to take her. I found that even like that, a lot of girls liked to sit down with me and just chat. I enjoyed that, and they seemed to enjoy talking with me.

I don't stop and talk with guys offering to take me to find chicas when I am standing among a thousand chicas, same as I don't talk to tuk tuk drivers in Thailand who offer to take me to get a massage while we are standing in front of a hundred massage parlors. These guys are hustling. I walked into D'Latins at 8PM one night and the place was empty. The bouncer offered to help me find a seat. I said 'Thanks, I didn't think I would be able to find a seat'. He laughed and said don't be angry at him for trying to hustle. We actually became 'friends', but I could see that he wanted customers for his empty (at the time) club.

When I walk around Sosua, I do exactly as I do when I walk around Washington Heights. Anything that can happen to me in Sosua can happen in Washington Heights so I try to be aware of my surroundings.

I applaud all who post helpful information on this board, and I applaud all who do their homework and seek this information. But if you have the proper attitude, OPEN YOUR EYES, and are careful, you can manage Sosua without much advance information.

[Phuquer]

I'll shake your hand any time for a propina. And I always wash my hands after visiting the bathroom, unlike most Dominicans!

Good report, Phuker.

I didn't tip the bouncers. I just greeted them as I walked in the clubs, joked with them, and I think I bought one a bottle of water once. But I'd give you a propina.

[Charles Pooter]

They approached me to shake my hand during the day while I walked around Sosua.

I'll shake your hand any time for a propina. And I always wash my hands after visiting the bathroom, unlike most Dominicans!

Good report, Phuker.

[Manizales911]

He has never had a passport before, he is an American citizen due to an American parent. He got his passport a few years ago and recently traveled to the US on his newly minted passport that states it was issued in DR and he was born in Santo Domingo. As for using the passport, if he had both an US and DR passport he could choose to fly on whichever one he wanted. As long as the flight manifest had the same passport he showed entering and exiting the countries. I had an issue recently with US CBP and my passport for some reason or another was not on the manifest and I had to wait while they cleared it up. Clerical error of some sort. In the DR, they really don't check that well and their systems do not have the checks that the US systems have. The strange thing about his passport was when he was leaving DR on an American passport that did not have an entry stamp, that confused the agents a bit.

My daughter is a dual citizen, I am from the U.S. and her mother is Colombian. When I applied for her U.S. passport the agent cautioned me to make certain when bringing her to the U.S. that she had both passports because she would need the U.S. passport to enter the U.S. and the Colombian passport to enter Colombia and would be denied entry otherwise. Here is a link to the U.S. Department of State explaining the rules, fourth paragraph down:

http://travel.state.gov/content/trav...tionality.html

[Frannie]

To make it simple, and get back more on topic issues, why don't you guys agree that if you bring your shit, it is at your own risk, and if you get ripped off promise to not complain about it here?

It is just a discusssion about different styles of risk management.

My own life experience is mostly in health care and in that area the general tendency is to reduce risk by restructuring the physical environment rather than trying to change human tendencies such as the desire to find shortcuts for everything.

For example by having the Prilosec 20 mgs capsules stored in a different drawer from the Prilosec 10 mgs capsules and a set up that mechanically prevents both drawers from being open at the same time, and opening the drawer by tapping on the touchscreen showing the correct medications of the named patient one reduces the overall probability of the wrong dose or wrong drug being given to the wrong patient (very simple example). You could contrast this with the much older methodology of having stock bottles of each drug lined up on shelves in the medication cart.

In another industry, perhaps building, one would have an entirely different kind of approach, maybe setting up multiple protective measures, such as putting a razor wire fence around the site, and employing a night watchman or dogs to protect the valuable materials stored there. Or perhaps you would use a "just in time" system to get materials to the site only when they are needed.

People learn from their own life experience and tend to bring those ideas with them to other areas of their existence. Thus people have different ideas about safe mongering, because there is no definitive professional literature or research on the subject.