Sosua Reports

[Wrx2005]

Thanks for your comment!

You're welcome.

[Phuquer]

Crime is a part of the DR, but so was growing up in Brooklyn, NY. I used to wake up to gun shots in the middle of the night, my apartment got broken into 3 times, I was a victim of attempted robbery, I had the grill from my car stolen twice.

Here, I've never been robbed, my car has not be broken tampered with.

I'm a little busy now and will continue my report later.

Excellent post and definitely on the money. Bad things can happen anywhere you go. You have found a way to minimize your exposure to risk by limiting the number of visits to tourist areas. I am sure you have a strategy to minimize your risks when you do venture into the seedy areas, and I am looking forward to reading your suggestions.

[Cagep1967]

Since, as you can tell, I'm an unabashed fan of the DR, I have considered moving down there semi-permanently. I'm at retirement age, and I could manage it fairly easily.

But, all the expats I have met down there, hotel owners, bar owners, retirees etc, have had a lot of bad experiences, assaults, home robberies, threats and so on. They'll tell you about it if you ask them. Some have gone home. Others have learned to live with it.

I came to the conclusion that, even with good security provided by apartment and condo management, I wouldn't be able to live in a permanent state of alert. A routine walk every day could be an invite.

As for buying a house on the hills outside town, forget it. I've talked to folks who keep a gun, and dogs. You are a mark for anyone who needs money badly, and one day they'll need it badly enough to come to your place.

So, for me, a vacation is one thing, a permanent life down there is just a risk I wouldn't want to take, and that's a shame.

If others have a different take, I'd love to hear from them.

I live in Santo Domingo. I still have residence in the states, so I am not technically an ex-pat. I'm here 3-4 weeks at a time and leave for a few day to conduct business face to face with clients. Most of the time I work remotely, all I need is internet access a computer and phone. I make a very comfortable living and am in my mid 40's. Very gringo looking, I speak dominican spanish fluently (now).

I started to respond to this thread earlier but it started to sound like a rant and I never posted my response.

I live in a gated community w / 24 hour armed security in the Capitol right off of 27th de Febrero. The community is populated by mostly middle class dominican families. I've been at this location for about 1 1/2 years. Before, I rented in an area that was considered by most to be a barrio. However, the people that I met in that neighborhood have become life long friends, in every sense of the word. I stop by to visit several times a week as do they.

My thought is this, in the touristy locations is where you see the dregs of Dominican Society. This is an area that largely derives its income from vice tourism, with that you get the prostitutes, pimps, touts and every other hustler looking for a peso. The money the tourist will bring in is known, if you are on vacation you will have money to spend on things the people in this area have to offer.

I don't live near a beach, I don't live in a fancy condo. When I do go to the beach it is a local beach, almost no tourists. I don't get the touts, chicas looking to come with me, people selling their wares. Sometimes I need some tourist crap, when friends or family visit, then I venture into those areas.

Now with all that said, the crime I have been personally victim to was getting the batteries to my inversol robbed. I had an iron cage created for them but I did not lock it so I guess that would be my fault for making it so easy. A lesson learned for 16K pesos.

Crime is a part of the DR, but so was growing up in Brooklyn, NY. I used to wake up to gun shots in the middle of the night, my apartment got broken into 3 times, I was a victim of attempted robbery, I had the grill from my car stolen twice.

Here, I've never been robbed, my car has not be broken tampered with.

I'm a little busy now and will continue my report later.

[Grub1]

The valuables that you can't avoid bringing are your passport, driver's license, cash, and a debit or credit card, and managing these items and not losing them is all the stress I want.

I agree with this. It can be a real hassle just keeping up with these things while doing all the activities that the area has to offer. The time's I have been here the place kept me busy enough I had no need to do any more research on a computer.

[Oakie]

Since, as you can tell, I'm an unabashed fan of the DR, I have considered moving down there semi-permanently. I'm at retirement age, and I could manage it fairly easily.

But, all the expats I have met down there, hotel owners, bar owners, retirees etc, have had a lot of bad experiences, assaults, home robberies, threats and so on. They'll tell you about it if you ask them. Some have gone home. Others have learned to live with it.

I came to the conclusion that, even with good security provided by apartment and condo management, I wouldn't be able to live in a permanent state of alert. A routine walk every day could be an invite.

As for buying a house on the hills outside town, forget it. I've talked to folks who keep a gun, and dogs. You are a mark for anyone who needs money badly, and one day they'll need it badly enough to come to your place.

So, for me, a vacation is one thing, a permanent life down there is just a risk I wouldn't want to take, and that's a shame.

If others have a different take, I'd love to hear from them.

[Oakie]

It is just a discusssion about different styles of risk management.

People learn from their own life experience and tend to bring those ideas with them to other areas of their existence. Thus people have different ideas about safe mongering, because there is no definitive professional literature or research on the subject.

Thing is, risk management is an argument to which there is not one correct answer. That was my only point. We all have different value systems.

For example early on I was asked by friends if Sosua was safe. I had travelled all over the Island (with GF) and felt as safe as if I was home. One guy went on my advice and had nothing but trouble. He came back complaining of a "typhoid outbreak" (overblown report in the local press during the Haiti earthquake). Expats being murdered, etc, and said he'd been totally ripped off by locals. It was the 'worst place in the world" to vacation, he told everybody, and I was looking rather stupid for telling them how good it was.

I'm asked by a friend if it's OK to park on my street when visiting me. In 3 years we've never had a parking ticket, but you guessed it, when they left there it was.

I take my laptop and an "expensive" phone down there with me to stay seamlessly in touch with work, but I also prefer a room on the ground floor, and with those sliding patio doors, I know I'm taking a risk right there, but that gear is supplied by the company, and it would be replaced, so I'm not concerned.

But could I recommend my preference to others? No, of course not. I learned the hard way.

[Phuquer]

All this talk about safety, risk management, scams, and stuff got me thinking.

Yes, I did some research before this trip. There is a ton of valuable information on this and other message boards. A lot of the veterans have posted tons of useful information that is of great service to first timers in the area, such as myself.

Yes I did hook up with some DR veterans, including some members of this board. That is definitely not my usual way of doing things, though. In all my travels around the globe, I have only met a couple of ISG posters. I usually travel alone.

Having said that, I found Sosua to be extremely easy, and the information I gathered was for the most part definitely helpful but not necessary. I try to have a very good attitude, I don't accept help when I am not the one requesting it (there is usually some kind of scam involved). I don't hand out tips to anyone who asks for tips.

I try to learn the language wherever I go. That means learning some Thai when I travel to Thailand, learning a bit of Chinese for my trips to China and Macau, picking up some phrases for my trips to Japan. You don't have to learn a lot, but people appreciate when you try to learn about their language and culture. I am a native Spanish speaker, and I grew up among Dominicans so Sosua was just like going home.

I am in no way rich, but I know I earn more than most in Sosua. Therefore, I do my best not to rub my so called 'wealth' in their faces. I don't dress fancy (although I don't wear tank tops and flip flops either). I don't wear expensive watches, use expensive phones, wear big gold chains, or use my iPad outside of the hotel. I don't pay for a beer with a $2000 peso note.

I am not above getting a haircut among the chicas getting ready for work. I don't mind buying a chica that has been sitting and talking to me for a 1/2 hour a beer. I do let her know from the get go that I am not going to take her. I found that even like that, a lot of girls liked to sit down with me and just chat. I enjoyed that, and they seemed to enjoy talking with me.

I don't stop and talk with guys offering to take me to find chicas when I am standing among a thousand chicas, same as I don't talk to tuk tuk drivers in Thailand who offer to take me to get a massage while we are standing in front of a hundred massage parlors. These guys are hustling. I walked into D'Latins at 8PM one night and the place was empty. The bouncer offered to help me find a seat. I said 'Thanks, I didn't think I would be able to find a seat'. He laughed and said don't be angry at him for trying to hustle. We actually became 'friends', but I could see that he wanted customers for his empty (at the time) club.

When I walk around Sosua, I do exactly as I do when I walk around Washington Heights. Anything that can happen to me in Sosua can happen in Washington Heights so I try to be aware of my surroundings.

I applaud all who post helpful information on this board, and I applaud all who do their homework and seek this information. But if you have the proper attitude, OPEN YOUR EYES, and are careful, you can manage Sosua without much advance information.

[Phuquer]

I'll shake your hand any time for a propina. And I always wash my hands after visiting the bathroom, unlike most Dominicans!

Good report, Phuker.

I didn't tip the bouncers. I just greeted them as I walked in the clubs, joked with them, and I think I bought one a bottle of water once. But I'd give you a propina.

[Charles Pooter]

They approached me to shake my hand during the day while I walked around Sosua.

I'll shake your hand any time for a propina. And I always wash my hands after visiting the bathroom, unlike most Dominicans!

Good report, Phuker.

[Manizales911]

He has never had a passport before, he is an American citizen due to an American parent. He got his passport a few years ago and recently traveled to the US on his newly minted passport that states it was issued in DR and he was born in Santo Domingo. As for using the passport, if he had both an US and DR passport he could choose to fly on whichever one he wanted. As long as the flight manifest had the same passport he showed entering and exiting the countries. I had an issue recently with US CBP and my passport for some reason or another was not on the manifest and I had to wait while they cleared it up. Clerical error of some sort. In the DR, they really don't check that well and their systems do not have the checks that the US systems have. The strange thing about his passport was when he was leaving DR on an American passport that did not have an entry stamp, that confused the agents a bit.

My daughter is a dual citizen, I am from the U.S. and her mother is Colombian. When I applied for her U.S. passport the agent cautioned me to make certain when bringing her to the U.S. that she had both passports because she would need the U.S. passport to enter the U.S. and the Colombian passport to enter Colombia and would be denied entry otherwise. Here is a link to the U.S. Department of State explaining the rules, fourth paragraph down:

http://travel.state.gov/content/trav...tionality.html

[Frannie]

To make it simple, and get back more on topic issues, why don't you guys agree that if you bring your shit, it is at your own risk, and if you get ripped off promise to not complain about it here?

It is just a discusssion about different styles of risk management.

My own life experience is mostly in health care and in that area the general tendency is to reduce risk by restructuring the physical environment rather than trying to change human tendencies such as the desire to find shortcuts for everything.

For example by having the Prilosec 20 mgs capsules stored in a different drawer from the Prilosec 10 mgs capsules and a set up that mechanically prevents both drawers from being open at the same time, and opening the drawer by tapping on the touchscreen showing the correct medications of the named patient one reduces the overall probability of the wrong dose or wrong drug being given to the wrong patient (very simple example). You could contrast this with the much older methodology of having stock bottles of each drug lined up on shelves in the medication cart.

In another industry, perhaps building, one would have an entirely different kind of approach, maybe setting up multiple protective measures, such as putting a razor wire fence around the site, and employing a night watchman or dogs to protect the valuable materials stored there. Or perhaps you would use a "just in time" system to get materials to the site only when they are needed.

People learn from their own life experience and tend to bring those ideas with them to other areas of their existence. Thus people have different ideas about safe mongering, because there is no definitive professional literature or research on the subject.

[Cagep1967]

You are correct in a case in which a dual citizen does not have DR passport, my statement was based on the assumption that someone traveling out of the country would have obtained passports in both countries. If your family member were to have passports to both countries then he would in fact have to enter on his DR passport.

He has never had a passport before, he is an American citizen due to an American parent. He got his passport a few years ago and recently traveled to the US on his newly minted passport that states it was issued in DR and he was born in Santo Domingo. As for using the passport, if he had both an US and DR passport he could choose to fly on whichever one he wanted. As long as the flight manifest had the same passport he showed entering and exiting the countries. I had an issue recently with US CBP and my passport for some reason or another was not on the manifest and I had to wait while they cleared it up. Clerical error of some sort. In the DR, they really don't check that well and their systems do not have the checks that the US systems have. The strange thing about his passport was when he was leaving DR on an American passport that did not have an entry stamp, that confused the agents a bit.

[Oakie]

Thats why I said what I said to you. If you indeed believe and support what you said above Example : (you should expect comments, helpful suggestions on your posts) , then you should expect what I suggested. As far as PMing. I suppose folks will elect to PM, but mainly when they deem it necessary. Which incidently makes me wonder. Why didnt you PM me or the other guy instead of posting that comment here on the board? That would have made sense since that seems to be an soption you support? BTW, I freely accept all the other deviations I've observed in this forum, some I even enjoyed.

Thanks for your comment!

[Wrx2005]

If you are posting on a public forum you should expect comments (or helpful suggestions) on your posts,

Thats why I said what I said to you. If you indeed believe and support what you said above Example : (you should expect comments, helpful suggestions on your posts) , then you should expect what I suggested. As far as PMing. I suppose folks will elect to PM, but mainly when they deem it necessary. Which incidently makes me wonder. Why didnt you PM me or the other guy instead of posting that comment here on the board? That would have made sense since that seems to be an option you support? BTW, I freely accept all the other deviations I've observed in this forum, some I even enjoyed.

[Oakie]

I never said anything about having any serious hassles. I said squeaky clean pass. When talking to most Vet about the DR for the mongering sport. Most Vets giving newbies words of caution and can give many examples.

I don't think I've ever been to a place that had a squeaky clean pass, and that includes my hometown.

Without the info gleaned from this forum, I never would have discovered the monger paradise that is the DR and particularly Sosua, and for that I'll be eternally greatful.

But like all reviews you have to pick and choose advice that fits your own personal style.

I've stayed in some wonderful hotels, but reading the reviews, on say, Expedia, Trip Adviser, Travelocity etc. It's hard to believe they are talking about the same hotel.

Your mileage does indeed vary.