KOS in Costa Rica

[Dodger Bulldog]

The thing I have heard though is that the prices are actually a little cheaper in Nicaragua and that because the better looking girls can command higher prices where monger traffic is higher (such as in CR) that is why you see so many of them going there, rather than the other way around. That leaves the ones that serve more the local market in Nicaragua and they tend to not be as good looking. Again, this is all hearsay

I thought we were talking about if there are hot Nicas in Nicaragua, or if the better ones are to be found elsewhere.

I submit that there are more hot Nicas in Nicaragua than in any other country in the world.

And that many who leave do not leave for long, for one or more of the many reasons that I have detailed.

I described many of the problems that I have seen them face. Of course, no one chica in particular will experience them all, but most chicas will experience some of them.

Certain ones are resilient enough to deal with the issues and continue in their new country (god bless them!). However, many are not and they do return home to Nicaragua, perhaps to work there another day.

I'm glad we're friends. Maybe we can monger together and learn from each other some day.

DB

[Prolijo]

Dodge,

I guess you need to re-read my post too. I wasn't taking issue with GP at all. In fact, I was pointing out to him that I had AGREED with him ALL ALONG that P4P was cheaper in Nicaragua. I was just redirecting his comment to where it should have gone in the first place. As for my "counter-counter arguments" that were directed to you, I wasn't defending myself at all either. I was just continuing the friendly debate, mi amigo. Its all in good fun.

Frankly, I don't think any of these comments are completely objective, notwithstanding your personal experiences. Maybe you have found that to be the case with some of the Nicas you have known (or at leat the ones you have known who have stayed in Nicaragua, which makes sense). Individual circumstances vary from chica to chica. The Nicas I have known on the CR side of the border have told a different story. Either way, we're talking in generalities here which are always very subjective. However, I understand your supporting arguments. Unfortunately, most of what you added in your last post doesn't really completely address the objections I raised in mine. I'll spare everyone the pain of my continuing to go over it point by point, but I will offer a couple of examples.

While my experience may not be as extensive as yours and is totally lacking on the ground in Nicaragua, like you I have personal experience with chicas of various nationalities IN CR and can draw some conclusions from that. For example, many chicas from other countries or even OTHER PARTS OF CR, leave their boyfriends back in their home towns. If they're all living in a group home with other chicas as you say, where are the novios? For the ones who come to SJ from other places those bruises are as apt to come from visits to their novio back home as they are from some tico boyfriend they might have taken up with in SJ. These out of town girls don't need to bother with any local ticos, if they go for any novio at all it will be some gringo who they can soak for more money and will treat them relatively nicely. Their latino boyfriends are probably the ones that knocked them up at an early age so that they had to go into the sex trade to begin with and if they haven't abandoned them yet are only there to claim a share of their earnings and normally they wouldn't follow them to CR. So I still fail to see how your comments about group homes, novios or mysterious bruises bolster your position. Finally, BM non-tica chicas often room together but the company house cum brothel that you refer to is probably more a staple of locales other than SJ and we're talking about the Nicas that come to SJ not Guatemala or Honduras. Again we're also talking about where the cream of the crop work, not the ones that work in little divey MP's. For those they can probably net as much at home as they can in CR.

One other example. When I said they couldn't be fired from the BM, I realized they could be banned. That is why I also added that if a chica gets banned from the BM or fired as an employee from some other type of venue, it probably was not the best sign of how great a provider she might be. If she was banned for bringing drugs into the club, or getting into fights with other chicas or ripping off one of the bar's gringo customers (which probably cover many of the most likely reasons), then is that really a chica one wants to get involved with. So repeating your point still missed what I was talking about. Also, you failed to explain to me how the problem of being fired and not being able to find employment at one of the other many places in SJ would be any worse than a similar problem back in Managua.

I'm not fighting you or getting defensive about my position. I'll be willing to grant that there are at least some really hot looking Nicas who despite the greater earning potential in CR prefer not to travel far from home and family or deal with some of the other negatives you mentioned and would rather ply their trade in Nicaragua even if for less money. But I still think the allure of the big money available just 150 miles over the border siphons off a good part of the best talent. Its all about supply and demand and with relative few barriers to entry the supply will always tend to flow where the demand is greatest, which for now happens to be CR.

[Dodger Bulldog]

chase,

you know i like you. i have told you before that i think you are a very thoughtful and intelligent guy, and that i enjoy your posts.

but i wonder why you took issue with grand pollo, and then felt you had to defend yourself by raising arguments against my points. there was no need to do so.

the difference here is that you are talking about the way you imagine things to be, from the eyes of a vistor. but many things may not be apparent to a tourist, even a frequent one.

i have been fortunate enough to have lived in central america. chicas have been to my home, and i have been to theirs. i have sometimes even met family members and been involved in their lives over a period of time.

i am not just talking theory. i am reporting what i have observed myself, and what i have been told first hand by the chicas.

when a long-time managua resident and nica expert and aficionado such as noguera tells me “you have said it perfectly on knowing the mente de las muchachas nica,” i know that it really means something.

visas are definite problem for the chicas, because they do seldom have one. at least it is a problem in guatemala, where i lived.

i often saw a manager hustle the chicas out a back door and down a dark alley as the policia were coming in through the front. i watched the remaining girls have their papers checked to make sure that they were citizens or had visas.

i have actually paid a bribe to the police to let a chica go, who otherwise was going to be arrested for being in the country illegally.

the immigration authorities can pose a real problem for these girls.

you say that the chicas can't get fired at the bm. well, they can certainly be banned from working there, which amounts to the same thing.

perhaps you have never noticed that each time they come in they are required to show their id and get approval from the door man before entering. they have to prove they are on the list allowed to work there.

and the blue marlin is only one venue. the vast majority of the nicas throughout central america work in clubs or massage parlors. they have been recruited and shipped in by management.

often they live in club "owned-and-operated" dormitories, with perhaps up to 20 other chicas who they work with. they see the same girls all day that they work with all night. they eat meals together cooked by the company madam. the whole lot of them share one tv and one bathroom.

and believe me, these dorms are not exactly plush. i have been inside a few.

from our gringo point of view, it may seem easy to "hop back and forth" between nicaragua and the other countries in latin america, but it certainly is not easy for chicas.

i have known girls to save up for months to raise the bus fare, then travel perhaps 16 hours each way, over dusty roads, inhaling diesel fumes, while being hit on by drunks on the bus, just to see their families, for maybe a day or two.

sure, a decent chica can earn a lot more at a club in another country than in nicaragua, but what happens to that money?

besides having to pay for their own living expenses(often similar to working for the "company store" where they can never get ahead), they are also constantly buying new clothes and getting their hair and nails done, etc., to keep up with the competition and build up their own confidence.

but what usually siphons away the money is that these chicas are usually the only bread winner for an extended family. it is not unusual for them to have upwards of ten to twelve people sucking off their teats.

besides sending her mother money every week for [CodeWord131] and food for her own kids, a chica may be paying tuition for a brother, have a cousin who needs medical care, and brother who can't or won't work, etc., etc., etc.

the first thing a chica does when she hits a new country (at least one who is not a lesbian) is to get herself a boyfriend. most are way too insecure to want to live without one. hot girls especially, value themselves by having a guy they can call their own.

and believe me, they get treated like shit. sometimes they catch their guy screwing someone else, often another girl from the club.

i have known chicas who managed to move in with a guy, thinking she's "arrived," only to be summarily thrown out on a moments notice.

i have been with chicas who took their clothes off, to reveal bruises from their breasts down to their ass, where the guy was clever enough to beat them only in places that it wouldn't show, so they can keep on dancing and bringing money home to him.

it might not seem like much culture shock to you, but i have known chicas who missed the heat, because it was only 72 degrees in guatemala. or they miss the beach and can't handle living in the mountains. they miss the nica holidays and food and traditions. they may miss the rural life and have trouble adapting to a big city.

while the differences maybe subtle to you and me, it can be significant to the girls when they are living far away from all they have ever known.

i live in florida, a transient state, and have known many people who can’t handle the differences in just being here. they have to go back to north carolina or wisconsin or new jersey or where ever they came from. it is really no different.

i, for one, tend to glorify and objectify the chicas, thinking that they must have it made because they are so hot and command such attention and can make so much money in such a short period of time. it feels like they are totally in control of the situation.

in rare cases that may be true. but in most cases being a migrant sex worker is a hard, hard life. it often takes incredible inner strength and motivation for them to make a consistent living this way, doing many things that you and i would not do, often with men who they have no desire to be around.

i think it is important to understand the world that the chicas actually live in. it is not at all as we gringos imagine it to be.

i have found the more i learn about these chicas, the more i have come to respect and appreciate and admire them.

db

[King of Sluts]

When I in central or south america, I want girls who are perfect tens, not below a ten. I want the girls in central and south america on the cheap, the kind of girls that in the united states charge 600 to 1000 a hour for a piece of ass. I prefer to save the money and take a flight and hotel and bang tens on the cheap. But the tens in managua are expensive, I am not talking about any type of ass. I want tens, perfect models.

KOS

[Prolijo]

GP,
Re-read my post.

a) My post was actually a response to KOS who was the one saying "the prices are high. I mean no girl in Central or South America deserves more than 40 dollars a hour." Why don't you direct your comment to him?

b) I also actually said the prices were cheaper. We only differ on the degree that we suggest those prices are cheaper. Frankly, if you must know, I only added the words "a little" to be a "a little" diplomatic to KOS.

c) I actually tried to make it quite clear that I had no personal knowledge of Nicaragua and thus my words were never meant to be the gospel.

My main point was also more a question about the RELATIVE QUALITY of WORKING chicas available in Nicaragua vs. those that you'll see at places like the BM in CR. And that is largely a subjective matter of opinion. However, Dodger raised some interesting counterpoints in this debate. I never doubted what he said about the country being chock full of hotties was true, but we're talking here only about the ones who make themselves available for P4P and where they do it. I'm also sure some of what he said about the girls traveling back and forth is also true. But lets look at some of that:

1) Family issues - undoubtedly a factor but unlike dominicanas or even colombianas, they can more easily take regular hops back and forth over the border whenever homesickness gets too bad.

2) Visa problems - Visas? What Visas? Most are probably there illegally without any visa at all. How hard do you think it is for a chica with a pocketful of cash to pass undetected in a city like SJ? If they get caught and deported, how hard is it for them to just hop back over the border again?

3) Boyfriend problems - this is probably more or the factor that drives them over the border in the first place away from their Nico novios, than the other way around.

4) Workplace problems - no less a problem back in Nicaragua than it would be in CR. They can't get fired at the BM. If they get fired from one strip joint in SJ or have co-worker issues, its not like there aren't others where they can find work. If they get fired was it for problems that we as customers don't want to get involved with anyway?

5) Cost of living - is higher in CR and thus a factor, but not nearly as much as their increased income or else why would so many Nicas travel to CR and NO Ticas travel the other way?

6) Culture shock - This isn't like you or me traveling from the US to CR. Its more like us traveling to Canada. There just isn't THAT wide a difference between Nicaragua and CR culturally.

7) "Incomes fluctuate, clubs lose popularity, drugs can take control. Looks fade, bodies change, dreams are dashed. Monotony sets in." First, the popularity of CR as a mongering destination is anything but fading (except perhaps among knowledgeable vets who have seen the changes). If one place declines, 2 other new ones take its place. Individual girls can start to find their income potential decline. As you said drugs can take control, looks fade, bodies change, dreams are dashed because they find they can't share in the demand due to competition from hotter chicas. And so they return to Nicaragua. THESE ARE ALL REASONS TIED TO THE QUALITY OF THE CHICA AND ONLY BUTTRESS MY ARGUMENT

While I haven't been to Nicaragua YET, another basis for my argument is what I see myself in CR. While attractive chicas can come from just about anywhere in CR and the rest of Latin America, at least in CR you don't normally see the quality working chicas except in SJ and increasingly Jaco and even in those 2 cities you primarily see them at the venues that cater primarily to rich foreign tourists (e.g. the BM, the BB etc.). Why if you can find attractive chicas from smaller towns like San Isidro, Cartago, Puntarenas, etc. in the BM can't you find them plying that trade back in their home villlages? Do those girls never go home?

There are several reasons. First, they work where the most money is. However, for many its the old adage about "not shitting where you eat". They don't want friends or relatives to know what they're really doing to earn a living or if they're sending back huge sums of money they want those relatives to be able to pretend not to know. Despite the relative acceptance of prostitution in Latin America compared to the US, it is still a profession that carries a huge stigma. This is why you'll find plenty of regular Ticas who don't want to be even seen around notorious places like the BM. Of course, if you're a Nica who that they know is going to see and know?

Getting back to Nicaragua (again here it is only speculation). I'm sure you can find skanky chicas plying the streets for $10-12 bucks. Heck, you can find SW's for that in CR too, but I wouldn't go with any of them. I'm also sure you can find "better" chicas at various bars and MP's. But why would the best chicas work for that much cheaper in Nicaragua under the eyes of their family and neighbors when they can command so much more in the much more active gringo market in CR? Its not that hard to go over the border. In fact, tens of 1000's of nicaraguans do so for much less money to pick coffee, etc. I'd be willing to allow that you'll find SOME that don't want to travel away from their families at all. I'd be willing to allow that SOME that travel to CR also ply their trade a little when they come back home. But I suspect, again only speculation, most of those migrant sex workers earn as much as they can while at the BM and other "rich feeding grounds" and come home only to visit their family and spend all that hard earned cash.

[Grand Pollo]

Actually, I've heard the opposite. I don't really know. Maybe they meant the prices are high for what you GET. The thing I have heard though is that the prices are actually a little cheaper in Nicaragua and that because the better looking girls can command higher prices where monger traffic is higher (such as in CR) that is why you see so many of them going there, rather than the other way around. That leaves the ones that serve more the local market in Nicaragua and they tend to not be as good looking. Again, this is all hearsay since I haven't actually been there myself. .

Read posts in the Nicaragua forum as this information is false.

The prices are a LOT cheaper, SW are $12, MP's $12-15 and girls are easy to come home with you for a day or night out of strip clubs and MP for peanuts.

[Noguera]

Dodge ... your comments on the psyche of the typical Nica are 100% on the money. I am really impressed as you have learned well ... "Grasshopper"! I really have nothing more to add, you have said it perfectly on knowing the mente de las muchachas Nicas!

[Columbian Lover]

Well after all my question to you guys I finally was able to see what you all see mostly everyday.

My origional plan was to arrive last Sunday afternoon and stay till Saturday morning. Well as it happened, I only could stay till Thursday morning. I had to fly to Trinidad for another meeting.

Let's start with my hotel. I stayed at the Presidente. Very nice hotel. Great staff and very close to BM and some others. I have no problem bring anyone home. I would suggest it to anyone. Met alot of other guys staying there and have been coming there for years. My only problem was that my business during the day was out of town, so morning trafic was hard.

Started at the BM early Sunday night. What a great place. I wish there was one of those in every city I travel to. The girls behond the bar were very nice. It was hard to decide what to look at them or the ladies walking around the bar.

Met someone that night who I really enjoyed and I think she did to. I don't have a lot of wild details, but it was just nice.

Took the night off on Monday so just went over to look.

Met a friend of the girl from Sunday, who was very interested in me from her friend. Again, nice.

As for Wednesday, my last night. Since my flight was at 7am, it did not make much sence to try to sleep for only a few hours so I stayed up.

Met someone, but could tell that she would not have been much fun, but we talked for a long time.

Then I saw her. She was a Columbian with long dark hair, not really big, just right all over. We talked for a few hours and decided to go.

Well to say the least, she was by far the best I have ever had. I only wished I would have met her on Sunday night.

We have talked since I have left. I hope to be back in a month or two for another trip. I would love to see her again.

If anyone needs any more infor on the hotel or anything else, please let me know.

Thanks

[Sexy Boy]

I mean no girl in Central or South America deserves more than 40 dollars a hour.

KOS

I was wondering why a guy likes you that don’t like Latin America is so frequently going there. Hey friend I think you haven’t gone to Brazil or Argentina. There you could find some of the most beautiful women on earth. But to get laid you need the correct attitude.

[Dodger Bulldog]

I have heard though is that the prices are actually a little cheaper in Nicaragua and that because the better looking girls can command higher prices where monger traffic is higher (such as in CR) that is why you see so many of them going there, rather than the other way around. That leaves the ones that serve more the local market in Nicaragua and they tend to not be as good looking.

You really won't have any trouble finding plenty of hotties with great attitudes in Nicaragua, as the country is chock full of them.

It is true that at one point in their career many chicas will venture elsewhere in search of their fortune, but most don't. And of those who do leave, many will return home quickly.

Think of them as "migrant" sex workers, who come and go.

They miss the children they left behind, have family issues, become homesick, get fired, can run into visa problems with the authorities, or may need to escape from a new boyfriend who beats them, cheats on them, or casts them aside.

The girls often experience cliques, jealousies, and cat-fighting inside the clubs. Especially the hottest ones.

They may find the cost-of-living or working conditions or living arrangements in their new countries to be intolerable.

Many simply can't deal with the adjustments or culture shock of living in a new country.

Incomes fluctuate, clubs lose popularity, drugs can take control. Looks fade, bodies change, dreams are dashed.

Monotony sets in.

Any or all of these issues will often serve to drive them back to Nicaragua.

When I lived in Guatemala, where the club owners regularly go on scouting trips to recruit Nicas, it was typical that a newbie would last 2-3 months before she went back home.

It was often my good fortune to be able to serve as a "respite home" on their day off for chicas who were saving up to buy a bus ticket back to Nicaragua. I had many opportunities to delve into their psyches and begin to learn from them what their lives were like.

It was rare to find one who survived there for the long haul. And even these long-termers were often on a schedule of six months working the club, six months back home.

When my buddy Noguera returns from his current jaunt to Central America he may be better able to address this issue. He is the expert, as he lived in Nicaragua for many years. I believe he will tell you that it is still his favorite place to monger.

DB

[Prolijo]

Yeah, I will be going to Nicaragua in the future and will have to sample the local talent. But I heard the pay for play is great and would love to sample some of the hotties, but the prices are high. I mean no girl in Central or South America deserves more than 40 dollars a hour.

KOS

Actually, I've heard the opposite. I don't really know. Maybe they meant the prices are high for what you GET. The thing I have heard though is that the prices are actually a little cheaper in Nicaragua and that because the better looking girls can command higher prices where monger traffic is higher (such as in CR) that is why you see so many of them going there, rather than the other way around. That leaves the ones that serve more the local market in Nicaragua and they tend to not be as good looking. Again, this is all hearsay since I haven't actually been there myself. Please post back in this forum (as well as in the Nica forum) after you go and let us know how you think the nica girls actually compare between the 2 countries.

[King of Sluts]

Yeah, I will be going to Nicaragua in the future and will have to sample the local talent. But I heard the pay for play is great and would love to sample some of the hotties, but the prices are high. I mean no girl in Central or South America deserves more than 40 dollars a hour.

KOS

[Tuna Man]

KOS,

I agree with you about the Nicas, they are great.

But if Panama is not good anymore and CR is going downhill, why don't you go to Nicaragua? Go right to the source.

Also in Peru, Colombia and Ecuador there are lots and lots of chicas from $7 on up. CR and Panama are not your only choices.

[Prolijo]

Chase,

You are getting a little to sensitive in regards to Costa Rica, I mean, Costa Rica is the most americanized country that I have ever been too, I mean they are so custom to us americans that they are acutally geting tired of us americans there, it is amazing. Costa Rica is like a foreign country for dummies, meaning the people are harmless, nice and helpful and they want our DOLLARS. It is so americanized that even have those piece of junk restaurants like Dennys about five minutes from the airport. I have never met so many taxis that speak english. Chase, I have to wonder if you are a tico.

KOS,
You read me completely wrong. I'm not sensitive about anything you say nor take any offense by it and I'm not a tico, though I'm flattered that you think my knowledge of CR is such that would be a possibility. I just PARTIALLY disagree with some of your assertions.

If CR is the most "americanized" country you've ever been to, I have to wonder what other countries you have been to. Certainly not Canada. And even the European countries are more like the US because they share the "1st world" level of development. If they're getting a little tired of us in CR, that is something they share in common with a lot of countries these days and just shows that at least in part they are resistant or resentful of any encroaching american cultural imperialism (again like most countries).

But I definitely DO AGREE with you about CR being like "a foreign country for dummies". In fact, I hope you don't mind if I steal that quote to use myself in the future. CR IS as easy to navigate as any DEVELOPING country I've been to. IMHO, that is a big part of what makes it so popular for so many 1st time 3rd world mongers as well as even "normal" gringo tourists. IMHO, CR is a good place for people to start mongering and even to continue with if that is what they're comfortable with, but I'd be the absolute LAST person to say that CR is the be-all and end-all for mongering or anything else.

What makes them americanized? That they "want our DOLLARS". So what? Of course they do. So do most poor countries, "americanized" or not. What makes CR different is they're in the "enviable"(?) position of actually being able to do it because of heavy tourist traffic. What also made (past tense) them different was that they really were (past tense again) mostly harmless and tourists could visit there with much less fear of crime than if they had ventured to some other developing country. But that was a GOOD thing and unfortunately it is becoming much less true. OTOH, you could argue that is yet another way in which they are becoming more like us.

SO you can call CR "americanized" if you want. Sure you've got your Denny's "5 minutes from the INTERNATIONAL airport (where else would you expect it) and even KFC's downtown, but wake up, that unfortunate cultural development is occuring in MANY foreign countries these days. In CR it is mainly restricted to the capital of SJ and in the nearby gringo enclaves like Escazu. Jaco is another case that might fit your pattern and for many gringo mongers that is the limit of their experience with CR beach towns, but that is hardly representative. Ever been to Dominical, Golfito, Cahuita, etc.? Even Quepos, with its heavy tourist presence is little touched if at at all by US chains. And if you go off the tourist track to more remote villages or even larger towns like San Carlos, San Isidro, Puntarenas, etc. you won't find those things you're complaining about. So either you really do know something I don't about places off the gringo trails or else you really don't have as much experience as you say.

CR IS becoming INCREASINGLY americanized and certainly compared to many other countries I've been is ALREADY heavily americanized. But it is NOT there YET. There are definitely many places that are much worse and CR still has far to go before you or anyone else can declare it a 51st state. Leave that dubious honor for Puerto Rico.

[Noguera]

KOS and Chase

Just to affirm the pro Nica lobby, here on the CR board ...... I am headed to Tegucigalpa and read such miserable things on the Tegucigalpa board that I am "bringing my own with me"! And yes ... she is a Nica! I will fly her up from Managua for 3-4 days, just so I can have fun with a Nica while in Honduras.

Now there is a glowing recommendation for the Nicas!