American Politics

[PVMonger]

Ah, the main argument from putin-lovers. Ukraine is corrupt.

While no one would deny that there are plenty of corruption in Ukraine, if EVERYONE in Ukraine was corrupt, Russian garrisons would've already been stationed in Kiyv and Lviv, and elsewhere. Instead, they're getting their asses handed to them. Also everywhere.

Yep, everyone in Ukraine is corrupt. And all Democrats are corrupt. All 3-letter agencies are corrupt, too. Especially the DOJ. How dare the DOJ investigate the one-term, twice-impeached, twice-indicted, former-guy for willfully retaining documents and trying to obstruct said investigation. The hubris of Repubs is astounding.

[SubCmdr]

Neither party is interested in the people. Only more control for themselves and the government. Both parties fear independent thinkers.

[Xpartan]

LOL. Tooms, if you knew anything about anything, everyone in Ukraine is corrupt.

Ah, the main argument from putin-lovers. Ukraine is corrupt.

While no one would deny that there are plenty of corruption in Ukraine, if EVERYONE in Ukraine was corrupt, Russian garrisons would've already been stationed in Kiyv and Lviv, and elsewhere. Instead, they're getting their asses handed to them. Also everywhere.

[EihTooms]

LOL. Tooms, if you knew anything about anything, everyone in Ukraine is corrupt.

Second, the "aid package" ensured higher prices for natural gas and electricity for the Ukrainian consumer.

And how does that refute the irrefutable truth that your video link proved nothing of what you and those numbskulls in your video link claimed?

If you knew anything about anything, that is.

Your beloved Repubs investigated it. They found no wrongdoing by the Bidens. And they were even more desperate to find wrongdoing by the Bidens than you and your video hero numbskulls.

I realize your and Trump's "enemies" must be everyone, everywhere all the time, otherwise claimed to be the "Deep State", because you can't just blame The Democrats for revealing the sad truth about Dear Leader while exonnerating Obama, Hillary, Biden etc when far more Repubs have been doing the investigations and testifying to that result than Dems. But at some point you still need to produce some evidence of your and other Trump Cultists' silly claims.

[Tiny 12]

Tiny, he bragged about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azLKK0xTOFI.

How can that NOT be true?

....You think Biden is not that stupid, but I see a narcissist who thinks he can get away with anything.

Sorry Elvis. I read a lot on this several years ago. I've forgotten a lot, and probably didn't know as much as I thought I did.

I believed that Biden didn't make the decision precisely because he is stupid. Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton, who was running the state department, did not hold him in high regard. Obama was president of the Harvard Law Review. Hillary was a member of the Yale Law Review. Biden on the other hand was at the bottom of his class at the University of Delaware and Syracuse Law School. He might not have gotten degrees if he hadn't been plagiarizing in his classes. Obama and Clinton arguably were among the best and the brightest. Joe Biden on the other hand, now especially at his advanced age, is among the worst and dumbest. Despite our differences with others here, I believe Biden's dumber than anyone who's posted on this page. The Democratic Party could have plastered the name of every Democrat in the USA on the wall, thrown a dart, and probably come up with a smarter candidate for president than Biden.

Obama and Hillary might agree with me. So I figured the decision to try to get Shokin fired came from the State Department or the White House. And Biden was merely the messenger boy.

Apparently from what I'm reading today, I was wrong. Biden pushed Obama to be in charge of the Ukrainian portfolio, and that happened, coincidentally(?) at about the same time that Hunter became a director of Burisma.

You're probably right, that Joe did have something to do with the decision to use the $1 billion in loan guarantees as leverage to push out Shokin. Biden was lying, or close to it, in your video though when he implied he gave the Ukrainians 6 hours to fire Shokin and they did it. In reality, the firing happened three months later, and required the approval of the Ukrainian Parliament. It probably had a lot more to do with pressure by the IMF, which was going to withhold $40 billion, instead of any role Biden played. Biden's just trying to take undeserved credit.

Shokin was slow walking any investigation of Burisma. Burisma may have been paying him off. The only person in the whole sordid mess who you can believe is Vitaly Kasko, one of Shokin's deputies who appears to be clean, and that's what Kasko says. Shokin was corrupt. So was Yuriy Lutsenko, Shokin's successor as head prosecutor, who fed information to Giuliani and Parnas. And the Ukrainian presidents, except maybe Zelensky. The Ukrainians actually opened an investigation into Hunter and Burisma after the phone call between Trump and Zelensky. Then they promptly dropped it in the last part of 2020, when Biden was elected. They were doing whatever they believed to be in their best interest.

A Biden presidency was probably welcomed by the Ukrainians. Biden was pushing Obama to provide more military aid to Ukraine back in 2014 when Russia invade Crimea. Obama was reluctant as he didn't want to start World War III. Now we're supplying 10X more aid to Ukraine than any European country, even though Ukraine is on Europe's doorstep and it's 4500 miles away from the USA. Undoubtedly a significant part of that aid is being drained off by corrupt Ukrainians.

Anyway Mykola Zlochevsky, owner of Burisma, was a genius to get Hunter Biden to serve on his board. Two years prior to when he hired Hunter, he was transferring government oil and gas leases to his own company while he was Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources, in a strongly pro-Russian government. When his party got kicked out and replaced by Ukrainian nationalists, Zlochevsky could have been toast. But with the son of the Vice President of the United States on his board, maybe he was bullet proof.

As to your other points, I thought the Congressmen had already seen the FD-1023. If the 17 recordings exist, hopefully they'll come out. You've been following this a lot closer than I have.

And I believe Kennedy is worse than Biden. He'd take away the jobs of my friends and family who work for oil and gas companies. So would Biden, but Kennedy would do it quicker. He's a class warrior who wants to screw over the billionaire entrepreneur class that's made the USA a world beater. And as you'd guess, I believe his fears of vaccines verge on paranoia.

[Elvis 2008]

Fact check: Biden leveraged $1B in aid to Ukraine to oust corrupt prosecutor, not to help his son.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...or/5991434002/

That's right. Even dimwit Senate Repubs weren't stupid enough to "miss" what you and that other numbskull in your video link missed. Or pretended to miss. LOL.

LOL. Tooms, if you knew anything about anything, everyone in Ukraine is corrupt.

Second, the "aid package" ensured higher prices for natural gas and electricity for the Ukrainian consumer.

[EihTooms]

Tiny, he bragged about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azLKK0xTOFI.

How can that NOT be true?

My understanding is that Senator Grassley has the FD-1023. When he asked the FBI about it, they denied it existed, and they freaked out when he told them he had it already. The Republican Congressmen were stunned to learn that the FD-1023 was not allowed for the public to see because it is not classified. The FBI is holding it to cover Biden's ass.

Then they lied and said Giulani wrote it. Well, that turned out to be false. Then there are rumors (or really people have told) and the Republican Congressmen have been told there are seventeen recordings between Burisma and the Bidens, 15 with Hunter and 2 with Joe. You can disbelieve it if you want to, but I will say not a soul has denied those recordings exist save for our Democratic douches here who know nothing about anything and deal in projections and not fact.

Hunter being on the Burisma board may have been legal, but if so, it was a legal bribe. Shokin tried to investigate it and was fired. Trump asked Zelensky to look into it and there is an attempted impeachment. Now there is war in Ukraine and Biden is making our money rain there. I have to ask, was this whole damned war a distraction from the fact that Biden may have been bribed? All this crazy Putin talk does not work with me. I think Biden provoked Putin.

You think Biden is not that stupid, but I see a narcissist who thinks he can get away with anything. I have read the bullshit here about how Trump is so much worse than Biden because he was not cooperating with the Feds on classified documents. The WSJ just ran an editorial saying that was pure bullshit. Biden thinks he can get away with anything.

Hell, the whole Trump indictment may just be a show to get the media away from the Biden bribery case.

We will see how this plays out but this may actually be in the hands of Dems. I think the Republicans are going to impeach Biden. The natural inclination is to say it will never work but the Dems do not want Biden in 2024. Maybe they negotiate a graceful way for him to leave. Ironically, RFK Jr. Seems to be the only candidate out there right now that has an organization in place. He is not a corporate hooker like Biden is, but his stock is way up, and I would consider voting for him.

Thing about RFK is he is as anti deep state as Trump is. He blasted Fauci and IMO the Dems need an anti deep state candidate.

Joe Rogan asked Dr. Peter Hotez, pharma's #2 hooker behind Fauci, on to debate RFK on his show. He offered $100,000 to any charity Hotez wanted. Just like that, others piped in and upped the ante. It is now at $1. 5 million and Hotez is still cowardly staying away. https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...on-charity-pot.

It is funny how when you shine a lot on these deep state douche bags all they do is run away.

That is my take on things now. We will see what happens but IMO things look really, really bad for Biden.

That numbskull in your video asked, "What am I missing"?

Well, here is what we are all sure is just a tiny portion of easily observable and easily researched reality that he is missing:

Fact check: Biden leveraged $1B in aid to Ukraine to oust corrupt prosecutor, not to help his son.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...or/5991434002/

Despite a recently concluded investigation by Senate Republicans that found no wrongdoing by the Bidens, claims to the contrary have continued to circulate on social media.

That's right. Even dimwit Senate Repubs weren't stupid enough to "miss" what you and that other numbskull in your video link missed. Or pretended to miss. LOL.

[EihTooms]

LOL. More about Putin? You still do not get the whole Russiagate thing was a complete lie fabricated by Hiliary Clinton and law enforcement, and I doubt you ever will.

Now you do not see the irony of your other bullshit impeachment, Ukrainegate. I cannot say I am surprised.

Really? Is that why Repubs are constantly trying to Defund the Police? Because they think they fabricated all that stuff about Trump's Campaign Director working for the Russians, Trump proudly and publicly siding with the Russians against America at Helsinki, him trying to blackmail Zelenskyy into fabricating dirt on the one political opponent he justifiably feared the most or he would deny Ukraine the military aid to fight Russia that was earmarked for that purpose by Congress and so on?

Is that really what is behind the Repubs' constant efforts to Defund the Police? When they are not trying to beat the them to death with American flagpoles, that is. Oh, and we can find the video and audio recordings of that, BTW.

[Elvis 2008]

I don't believe for a minute that Biden really had anything to do with getting Viktor Shokin fired.

Tiny, he bragged about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azLKK0xTOFI.

How can that NOT be true?

I watched the Cruz video, also the Comer one in your post. Notwithstanding, I don't believe they'll tie the money back to Joe Biden, except perhaps for trivial items like what Hunter paid for some maintenance and improvements on Joe's house. I suspect the tapes and FD-1023 are nothing burgers. Why? One of two things happened.

1. Hunter and Jim Biden (Joe's brother) traded on Joe's name, making millions. Joe was either powerless or too stupid to stop them.

2. Joe did play a part in the family business. He helped out people who forked money over to Hunter and Jim, or gave people the impression he would. For reasons I set out above, and also because a person with presidential aspirations doesn't want to control foreign bank accounts in tax havens, Joe preferred the money go to his son and his brother and their companies.

Now I have no idea which happened. But strongly doubt that Joe Biden would be stupid enough to leave a paper trail or video recordings that would incriminate him, if it was "2" that happened.

My understanding is that Senator Grassley has the FD-1023. When he asked the FBI about it, they denied it existed, and they freaked out when he told them he had it already. The Republican Congressmen were stunned to learn that the FD-1023 was not allowed for the public to see because it is not classified. The FBI is holding it to cover Biden's ass.

Then they lied and said Giulani wrote it. Well, that turned out to be false. Then there are rumors (or really people have told) and the Republican Congressmen have been told there are seventeen recordings between Burisma and the Bidens, 15 with Hunter and 2 with Joe. You can disbelieve it if you want to, but I will say not a soul has denied those recordings exist save for our Democratic douches here who know nothing about anything and deal in projections and not fact.

Hunter being on the Burisma board may have been legal, but if so, it was a legal bribe. Shokin tried to investigate it and was fired. Trump asked Zelensky to look into it and there is an attempted impeachment. Now there is war in Ukraine and Biden is making our money rain there. I have to ask, was this whole damned war a distraction from the fact that Biden may have been bribed? All this crazy Putin talk does not work with me. I think Biden provoked Putin.

You think Biden is not that stupid, but I see a narcissist who thinks he can get away with anything. I have read the bullshit here about how Trump is so much worse than Biden because he was not cooperating with the Feds on classified documents. The WSJ just ran an editorial saying that was pure bullshit. Biden thinks he can get away with anything.

Hell, the whole Trump indictment may just be a show to get the media away from the Biden bribery case.

We will see how this plays out but this may actually be in the hands of Dems. I think the Republicans are going to impeach Biden. The natural inclination is to say it will never work but the Dems do not want Biden in 2024. Maybe they negotiate a graceful way for him to leave. Ironically, RFK Jr. Seems to be the only candidate out there right now that has an organization in place. He is not a corporate hooker like Biden is, but his stock is way up, and I would consider voting for him.

Thing about RFK is he is as anti deep state as Trump is. He blasted Fauci and IMO the Dems need an anti deep state candidate.

Joe Rogan asked Dr. Peter Hotez, pharma's #2 hooker behind Fauci, on to debate RFK on his show. He offered $100,000 to any charity Hotez wanted. Just like that, others piped in and upped the ante. It is now at $1. 5 million and Hotez is still cowardly staying away. https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...on-charity-pot.

It is funny how when you shine a lot on these deep state douche bags all they do is run away.

That is my take on things now. We will see what happens but IMO things look really, really bad for Biden.

[Spidy]

There are interesting comparisons and similarities to another DOJ case, when talking about Trump's "beautiful mind" boxes affliction and the illegal retention of classified/top secret national defense information/docs. As this is not the first time, and there is a unfamiliar case where Trump's very own administration and DOJ, did prosecute a man for this very crime.

The prosecuted man, Harold Thomas Martin, (a fmr. gov't contractor and worked for multiple different intelligent agencies), sighted in the Trump DOJ prosecuted case (USA v. Harold T. Martin III), as weird and bizarre as it appears, it also seems, he too just wanted to horde the docs. He had been stock piling the classified information and docs in his home and even in his car, for over some 20 years.

There were no signs that he ever disseminated the classified/top secret docs or any indications that he ever did anything with docs, except hold on to them, for his own "beautiful mind" boxes. That very same Trump administration/DOJ case, was resolved with the prosecution of Harold Thomas Martin III, getting 9 yrs in the clink.

Perhaps (although I doubt it), Donnie J. Dummkopf and Harold Martin, will make "beautiful mind" boxes, together in the clink, in adjoining jail cells...kkkk!

[Cali Guy]

You said "The Democratic douches will make fun of the sources as they always do but that is not going to work here. There is audio of Joe Biden and Hunter Biden. There are bank records. If they are what the Republicans say they are, and they may not be, Biden is fucked. ".

This is an interesting thought, considering that you have personally said that "guilty" needs to be something a trial decides. Evidently you believe that "guilty" is only reserved for Democrats and the one-term, twice-impeached, adjudicated-sexual-assaulter, former-guy is "innocent". But we all knew that anyway.

Your rants about the FBI and the DOJ are getting old. Almost as old as "Chinese thermostats changed votes in the 2020 election" or "Jewish space lasers cause forest fires" or "There's a pedophile ring operating out of the basement of a basementless pizza parlor building in DC" or any of the other thousands of ridiculous conspiracytheories that most Repubs believe.

If Repubs actually had "audio" of Joe and Hunter Biden, they'd release it. If they had video of a whistleblower repeating his claims under oath, they'd release it. And you know they would. What they have is nothing. Comer even said that he had no direct evidence linking Joe Biden to any crime. What he said was, basically, "Hey, we've got theories but no evidence and what you need to do is trust us that we're going to come up with evidence before Hell freezes over. " Sounds sorta like Guiliani when he was asked about the 2020 election being stolen..

It looks like they are finally filing impeachment documents for Biden. It will be interesting to see what happens when a president who is actually guilty gets impeached. The democrats will try to block the impeachment but it will definitely happen if he is found guilty for treason. It may not happen if he is just guilty of of the border fiasco. Biden has murdered thousands by his neglect of the border and allowing cartels to bring tons of drugs into USA.

[Tiny 12]

Actually Elvis I may be wrong, about the importance of China vs Burisma. I see that Burisma was involved in rampant tax evasion. And the founder, who was in charge of Ukrainian natural resources in a strongly pro Russian administration, had a number of oil and gas licenses issued to Burisma while he was Minister. Yet they've gotten off with only paying $7. 44 million in fines. I guess it's possible Zlovchevsky, the founder, would be penniless and in a Ukrainian prison if he hadn't had Hunter on his board. Perhaps the Ukrainian government figured it better go lightly on Zlovchevsky, if it wanted to stay in Joe Bidens good graces.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burisma

[Tiny 12]

Tiny, the Feds are restricting the release of a non-classified document horribly detrimental to Biden. Watch this video of Cruz crucifying the Deputy Director of the FBI about this issue.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ted...bribery-scheme

After this and Russiagate, I do not give a fuck what the FBI thinks about anything. They may as well be a wing of the Democratic party.

And as bad as it is for Biden, it gets worse and worse. This is what came out today. It is horribly bad. Watch the video here too: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...ayments-bidens.

The Democratic douches will make fun of the sources as they always do but that is not going to work here. There is audio of Joe Biden and Hunter Biden. There are bank records. If they are what the Republicans say they are, and they may not be, Biden is fucked.

And that is why you indict all or none. It is looking to me like indicting Trump was just a stunt to distract.

If you look at the New York Times website, it is what you expect. There are four stories on the cover about Trump. There is nothing on the Biden bribe story. But then there is this one little op ed piece about how Democrats do not want Biden to run in 2024. That is what the NY Times does when something stinks with a Democrat. Give themselves an out for not totally being on Team Biden.

That is why you indict everyone. The justice system should be apolitical. When you only indict Trump, the question is, "Was Trump really that bad or do you guys just not want the Biden bribe scandal on the front page?

Elvis, Please bear with me. It's going to sound like I'm off topic, but I'm not.

Democratic politicians are crafty, and self serving. John Kerry is married to Teresa Heinz Kerry. They're worth about a billion dollars. But in some years they probably didn't pay as much tax as you and I did. Why? They had the overwhelming part of their fortune invested in tax free municipal bonds.

If you look at the wealth tax proposals of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren back in 2016, when they were running for president, they didn't kick in until a persons net worth was about 3 times what each of theirs was. Why? Well, I figure they wanted to leave a margin of safety. Both must have figured their net worth would grow through the years, especially if he or she became president. You can make a mint on book deals and speaking engagements. So they wouldn't end up ever having to pay the tax.

Now look at Biden and the estate tax. Biden proposed dropping the lifetime estate and gift tax exemption to $3.5 million, and increasing the death tax to 45%. If he gets his way, he and Jill could "only" shelter $7 million together ($3.5 million each) from death tax, down from $24 million now. After that, they or their estate pay 45% of whatever's left to the government. Biden has also proposed an additional capital gains tax on the value of assets in an estate in excess of cost basis. I imagine a person could see over 60% of what he's worked for and saved over a lifetime evaporate as a result. And even if Biden doesn't get his way, the lifetime exemption is scheduled to drop from $12 million per person to $5 million on December 31, 2025.

Democrats love to talk about soaking the rich, but have conveniently allowed people to avoid the estate tax with good planning. They're pulling the wool over peoples eyes.

So, anyway, why would the Bidens want to end up with $10 million or $20 million or $30 million in their estate? Answer, they wouldn't. Undoubtedly, like John and Teresa Heinz Kerry, they would prefer that the little people and Republicans pay tax, not them or their estates. Joe and Jill have plenty of money, and they'll make plenty more before they die. Even if they didn't they'll be coddled by the Secret Service and taxpayer money. They may be looking for ways to get money out of their estates before they die. They don't need that $10 or $20 or $30 million. It's much better if that goes to their children, grandchildren and nieces and nephews.

I watched the Cruz video, also the Comer one in your post. Notwithstanding, I don't believe they'll tie the money back to Joe Biden, except perhaps for trivial items like what Hunter paid for some maintenance and improvements on Joe's house. I suspect the tapes and FD-1023 are nothing burgers. Why? One of two things happened.

1. Hunter and Jim Biden (Joe's brother) traded on Joe's name, making millions. Joe was either powerless or too stupid to stop them.

2. Joe did play a part in the family business. He helped out people who forked money over to Hunter and Jim, or gave people the impression he would. For reasons I set out above, and also because a person with presidential aspirations doesn't want to control foreign bank accounts in tax havens, Joe preferred the money go to his son and his brother and their companies.

Now I have no idea which happened. But strongly doubt that Joe Biden would be stupid enough to leave a paper trail or video recordings that would incriminate him, if it was "2" that happened.

I think the whole Burisima thing is a dead end. You may recall that Trump never paid Giuliani for his investigations into Ukraine and Burisma. Instead, Giuliani was paid by two Trump campaign contributors, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, immigrants from the former Soviet Union. Parnas, Fruman and maybe Giuliani were looking for a way to get the Trump Administration and the State Department to pressure the Ukrainian government to do a sweetheart deal, selling U.S. LNG (liquefied natural gas) to Naftogaz, the Ukrainian national oil and gas company. They were going to make a bundle in commission off the deal.

So what could they provide as payback, to Trump? They came up with the Burisma conspiracy theory. (Aside: This is what Trump gets for not paying his attorneys. You get what you pay for. Giuliani became a free agent, and ended up getting Trump impeached twice.)

I don't believe for a minute that Biden really had anything to do with getting Viktor Shokin fired. Shokin was the equivalent of our attorney general, and the conspiracy theory Giuliani, Parnas and Fruman cooked up had Joe Biden getting rid of Shokin so he wouldn't investigate Burisma. This was because Hunter was being paid directors fees of $50,000 per month for years by Burisma. The truth is that Shokin was slow-walking investigations of many companies, including Burisma. He most likely was crooked and being paid off. That's why the Obama Administration, the State Department, and Europeans who were providing aid to Ukraine insisted he get axed. Biden was just delivering the message, nothing more and nothing less. He had nothing to do with the decision to give Ukraine the ultimatum, that either Shokin goes or $1 billion in aid would be withheld.

China's where people probably should be looking, not Burisma. WTF was Joe Biden doing taking Hunter with him on an official Vice Presidential visit to China, on a government jet? Hunter was doing business on the trip, setting up a Chinese private equity fund that I believe got investments from Chinese government owned enterprises. That's telegraphing to people that if you help out Hunter, you might just get some help from Joe down the line. Or at least get Joe's ear if you need to. That fits in a lot better with the "Biden Family Crime Syndicate" theory than Burisma. Now I don't see any evidence that Biden has caved to China as a result of all this. Actually the opposite. Tensions have ratcheted up. Well, I guess when you do business with a mafia family though, it doesn't always do what it says it will. It's kind of similar to what we saw with Trump and the Russians. Many Democrats believe that the Russians hacked the Clinton campaigns emails and then leaked results just before the election, to help out Trump. (Another aside, if that happened it was probably more to screw Hillary Clinton. Putin hated her ever since as Secretary of State she interfered, in his view, in the Russian election in 2011.) Anyway, if Putin did Trump a favor, then, contrary to the views of our Democratic friends here, he didn't get anything in return.

As to the FBI director, I figure he's super sensitive about grandstanding, after Comey's fuckups in 2016 and 2017, so he's going to keep his mouth shut. Yeah, he probably should say something.

I'm not sure that Ted Cruz is onto anything. But I don't know. I haven't been following this that closely. Apparently some Republicans are starting to backtrack on the recordings and FD-1023,

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/15/polit...eme/index.html

[Elvis 2008]

Of course, like Team Trump's indisputable extraordinary collusion with Russia

LOL. More about Putin? You still do not get the whole Russiagate thing was a complete lie fabricated by Hiliary Clinton and law enforcement, and I doubt you ever will.

Now you do not see the irony of your other bullshit impeachment, Ukrainegate. I cannot say I am surprised.

[Elvis 2008]

First there is the false equivalence about guilty. If the tapes are what the Republicans say they are is a declaration of guilt? You are back in douche mode.

If Repubs actually had "audio" of Joe and Hunter Biden, they'd release it. If they had video of a whistleblower repeating his claims under oath, they'd release it.

And this is double douche mode. It figures though. When you only read and listen to your left wing propaganda you do not get the facts and make a statement like this, but it does not matter. You have made an accusation and John Clayton, Mr. Covid boosted x infinity has said the same thing. Well, where are the recordings? LOL.