Thread: American Politics
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08-02-22 14:07 #9382
Posts: 1604A good read
The following is an excerpt from the following article. I have chosen not to include some parts because they relate to the "local politics" of the area from where the person who wrote the article lives. However, the article makes some excellent points. https://news.yahoo.com/ray-buursma-c...041513238.html.
Yes, Trump committed treason.
The Jan. 6 hearings are completed (maybe). Anyone with a smattering of gray matter between the ears recognizes Donald Trump did the following:
1. Rejected the results of a legitimate election.
2. Made illegal, immoral and unethical attempts to maintain his presidency.
3. Gathered supporters for a rally in Washington, the. See. , on Jan. 6, 2021.
4. Encouraged those supporters to preempt the proceedings which would announce the next president.
5. Took no sincere action for three hours to end an attempted insurrection at the Capitol, but instead attempted to contact senators so they would halt constitutional proceedings.
6. Chose to sacrifice the well being and even the life of Vice President Pence, if necessary, so Pence would not declare Biden to be America's next president.
None of this is new, and we need not rehash specifics of Trump's misbehavior. His offenses have been presented over and over, culminating with the last bipartisan Congressional hearing less than two weeks ago.
What of those who still support Trump?
Today we address not Trump, but those who still back him. Let's start by defining two terms.
Treason is attempting to overthrow a nation's government.
A traitor is a person who commits treason.
Based on these definitions and his actions above, Trump is clearly a traitor, but what of the tens of millions who still condone him? What do we call those who committed no overt treasonous act but still stand behind the orchestrator of Jan. 6?
Well, what do we call one who condones a wife beater, a child molester, or a thief? He is not guilty of a crime, but is he an enabler? A facilitator? A booster? An ally? He certainly is reprehensible, but for now, let's call him a "supporter."
Trump supporters come in two types. Some blatantly and overtly endorse the usurper. They still wear MAGA hats, fly Trump flags and display his yard signs and bumper stickers.
Others are closet supporters. They side with Trump but seldom announce their backing, for doing so would appear morally awkward. They are like KKK supporters who do not don pointy white hoods, but still urge their buddies to "Have fun at the cross burning and lynching!" When asked to justify their approval for Trump, most say, "I don't like Trump, but I like his policies."
"Liking policies" might cover a few sins, but "liking policies" can never, ever justify an attempter insurrection or coup, and Trump did nothing less. Atonement is impossible without repentance, and Trump, clearly, is unrepentant. There is no way around this. Remaining a Trump supporter makes one vile to America, vile to the Constitution, and vile to American values.
Jesus, in Matthew 5: 27-28, stated he who lusts after a woman has already committed adultery in his heart. That being so, why should those who condone the traitorous leader of an insurrection not be called traitors?
The author of the article goes on to ask a few questions of a particular local politician. Maybe we ought to ask the same questions of the RethugliKKKans who post here:
First, do you dispute Trump took the six actions listed above? If no, please explain.
Second, do you consider those actions treasonous? If no, please explain.
Third, do you still support Trump? If so, please explain.
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08-02-22 11:50 #9381
Posts: 695Xpartan, in order to defend Pelosi's disgraceful congressional committee proceedings, you are not only misrepresenting what I posted, you are dancing around what actually occurred in the house of Representatives. Why won't you address the relevant issue? Why were the two eyewitnesses to whatever actually occurred in the limo not called to testify under oath? Your silence about the Secret Service agent's firsthand information being ignored by the committee and your foolish attempt to dance around the issue confirms your absolute political bias and concedes the point that the House committee is not interested in finding the truth about what actually occurred on Jan 6. Shame on you and shame on your party.
Unfortunately, from your point of view these hearings failed. Nobody tuned in to watch and the hearings failed to distract the American people from the colossal failures and outrageous behavior of the Biden administration. Namely the economy "stupid", the border chaos, the violence in the streets of all Democratic party controlled cities, and the communist critical race theory and trany indoctrination being forced on our school children. So, November is fast approaching. I can't wait.
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08-02-22 07:06 #9380
Posts: 1925Originally Posted by Paulie97 [View Original Post]
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08-02-22 04:29 #9379
Posts: 1604Originally Posted by Xpartan [View Original Post]
AxeH says "Elvis just told me that the President of the company punched out his aide while on the way to the airport". (Elvis was in the car with the President of the company and saw the incident).
If the story was false, (ie. Elvis never said what AxeH related) would Elvis just sit there quietly and not say a word? Not on your life. He would, right then and there refute what AxeH said. Because that's what people do. If somebody flat out lies in your presence about something you said, you call bullshit immediately.
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08-02-22 02:31 #9378
Posts: 3160Originally Posted by PVMonger [View Original Post]
Originally Posted by PVMonger [View Original Post]
By the way, where are all the articles about people who died from Covid after Biden said you could not get it if vaccinated? Where are those hundreds of articles?
When a Republican talks, words mean things. When a Democrat talks, what does the word words mean? Does that not depend on what your definition of is is?
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08-02-22 02:16 #9377
Posts: 1678Well
Originally Posted by PVMonger [View Original Post]
Watch Dr. Birx's reaction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d57zJr82dhQ
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08-01-22 22:49 #9376
Posts: 1678Great News
Keep bringing the traitors before the bench.
"USA District Judge Dabney L. Friedrich condemned Reffitt's conduct in handing down an 87-month sentence, saying in a nearly six-hour-long hearing that his views espousing political violence were 'absurd,' 'delusional' and "way outside of the mainstream. What Reffitt and others did at the Capitol 'is the antithesis of patriotism,' Friedrich said, adding: "Not only are they not patriots, they are a direct threat to our democracy, and will be punished as such. ".
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md...sentence-jan6/
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08-01-22 22:41 #9375
Posts: 1604Lots of RethugliKKKants did!
Originally Posted by Elvis2008 [View Original Post]
All one needs to do is to google "poison control calls after trump inject disinfectant remarks". There are hundreds of articles.
This is something that RethugliKKKants can't seem to wrap their minds around. Words matter. When someone like tRUMP says "Why don't we look into injecting disinfectant as a cure for COVID", thousands of his supporters start drinking bleach martinis. You may have thought it was a joke but thousands of tRUMP supporters didn't. And tRUMP didn't think it was a joke either because he said that he never jokes. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...testing-335459.
Words matter. Ask any of the traitors who tried to overthrow the Government on January 6th, 2021. They all said that they were there because tRUMP wanted them to be there and wanted them to do what they did. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-...apitol-1561718.
"We're gathered together in the heart of our nation's Capitol for one very, very basic and simple reason, to save our democracy. ".
"We will not let them silence your voices. We're not going to let it happen. Not going to let it happen. ".
"Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that's what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal. ".
"That's what they've done and what they're doing. We will never give up. We will never concede, it doesn't happen. You don't concede when there's theft involved. ".
"When you catch somebody in a fraud, you're allowed to go by very different rules. ".
"Let them get out. Let the weak ones get out. This is a time for strength. It's all part of the comprehensive assault on our democracy and the American people to finally standing up and saying, 'No. ' This crowd is again a testament to it. ".
"You will have an illegitimate president, that's what you'll have. And we can't let that happen. ".
"We will not be intimidated into accepting the hoaxes and the lies that we've been forced to believe over the past several weeks. We've amassed overwhelming evidence about a fake election. ".
"We're going to see whether or not we have great and courageous leaders or whether or not we have leaders that should be ashamed of themselves throughout history, throughout eternity, they'll be ashamed. And you know what? If they do the wrong thing, we should never ever forget that they did. Never forget. We should never ever forget. ".
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08-01-22 05:01 #9374
Posts: 5385A mini recession, purposely induced for a good economic 'problem' to have? Or none?
Or, as Repubs would say, "The Worstest Mostest Terriblest Great Recession of all time"! LOL.
One chart shows why an official recession call isn't coming anytime soon
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/reces...html?.tsrc=372
My god. The charted and cited GDP Growth and Jobs Creation results and trends after Trump took office and passed his $2. 5 Trillion failed economic "stimulus" bill vs what Biden has accomplished in just 18 months were truly pathetic. Biden has done a better job of recovering us from the Trump presidency disaster than even I thought.
Biden has created a MILLION more jobs in just the first 6 months of 2022 than in the ENTIRETY of Trump's "best" pre Trump's Pandemic year of 2019!
After which Trump's godawful economic decisions since at least 2018 wiped out 10+ MILLION jobs!
Still, typically pro Repub Mainstream Media (CNN included, I am sure) kept telling its viewers all through the 2020 presidential election campaign that Trump should spend more time talking up his good economy. LOL. Seriously.
You know, the critical election factor that many people gullible enough to believe MSM's self-serving spin on it think is better handled by Repubs than by Dems, don't you know.
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08-01-22 04:11 #9373
Posts: 1604ROFL, again
Originally Posted by Elvis2008 [View Original Post]
EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!
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08-01-22 00:30 #9372
Posts: 648Originally Posted by Xpartan [View Original Post]
AxelHeyst has been watching too many episodes of Law & Order. Hearsay may not be accepted in a trial. But absolutely it is acceptable in a Congressional Hearing. What Axel didn't know is that the Congressional Hearing is not a trial. They are functioning like a Grand Jury and listening to evidence. Hearsay may lead to witnesses with direct involvement or knowledge of the events. So while "hearsay evidence" may not be used at a future trial, the Congressional Committee is absolutely entitled to listen to it and issue subpoenas to others who may have direct knowledge.
If charges are referred and a trial occurs later that "hearsay" may or may not be useable. Generally not, however there are exceptions.
Score:
Xpartan - 1 for a far better understanding.
AxelHeyst - 0 not understanding the difference between a trial and Congressional hearings.
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08-01-22 00:26 #9371
Posts: 1925What hearsay really is and isn't
Enough about this bullshit already. Here are the excerpts from a great article on the subject matter. Emphasis mine. Full text at the link below.
Law and Crime.
https://lawandcrime.com/jan-6-commit...re-complicated
As the top aide for former President Donald Trumps ex-chief of staff delivered a blow-by-blow account Tuesday of her version of conversations with others in the then-presidents inner circle in the lead-up to Jan. 6, 2021, the official Twitter account for Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee launched a partially specious counterattack.
Its literally all hearsay evidence, tweeted @JudiciaryGOP, a committee whose Republican members are led by Trump loyalist Rep. Jim Jordan of Ohio. What a joke.
Jordan refused earlier this year to cooperate with the Jan. 6 Committee, and the House Judiciary Republicans whom he leads largely misstated and oversimplified the Federal Rules of Evidence the rules with which the lawmakers overseeing the courts should be familiar.The first issue with the GOPs tweet is its wholesale approach to the testimony: its literally all hearsay. Thats not entirely accurate. While some of the testimony almost surely would be considered hearsay in a court of law, some of it would not, and the distinctions are far more complicated than the all-or-nothing assertion made by the GOPs tweet.
The second issue with the tweet is that Cassidy Hutchinson wasnt testifying in a court of law. Therefore, the rules of evidence do not apply. Evidence rules apply to criminal and civil lawsuits tried before a judge and sometimes a jury. They do not apply to congressional hearings, which are fact-finding missions at their core. So, the hearsay assertion as applied to the Committee hearings is ultimately irrelevant.In a court of law, some of Hutchinsons most stunning (and reportedly to-be-disputed) testimony might be considered excludable hearsay. Her testimony about Trump allegedly trying to grab the steering wheel of the armored vehicle... recounted events relayed to her by then-Deputy Chief of Staff Tony Ornato...
Im the fing president, Trump reportedly yelled while in the car. Take me up to the Capitol now!
Hutchinson said that, according to Ornato, Trump then reached up toward the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel.
Engel, then the head of Trumps security detail, then allegedly grabbed Trumps hand and told him to take his hand off the wheel. Trump then allegedly turned on Engel himself, using his free hand to lunge toward the agent, Hutchinson said.This line of testimony could potentially be considered inadmissible hearsay, if Hutchinson was testifying at trial...
However, as Harwin (a former federal prosecutor) explained, if Ornato himself was being charged with a crime or was a party to a lawsuit, his statement might not be considered hearsay at all, and instead would be deemed an admission of a party-opponent (and, therefore admissible).
But Hutchinson could testify about other things she saw and observed.
Just because you see something and you testify about your own personal observation, thats not necessarily hearsay, Harwin said.
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07-31-22 23:53 #9370
Posts: 1925Originally Posted by AxelHeyst [View Original Post]
I will post a few excerpts from a solid article written by real lawyers that flushes your "hearsay" theory down the toilet. But first this.
If I'm subpoenaed by a congressional committee, I don't have a luxury to choose what to say. If Axel Heyst told me that Bob had broken his arm, it's my duty -- because I'm testifying UNDER OATH -- to inform the Congress that Axel Heyst has told me about Bob's broken arm.
That's not a hearsay / rumor about Bob. I have no way to determine whether that knucklehead Bob has really broken his arm. My duty is to simply tell the truth about the conversation with Axel Heyst and inform the Congress that Axel Heyst has provided me with the info about Bob who managed to brake his fucking arm somehow.
The Congress then has an option to issue a subpoena for Axel Heyst to confirm or deny the story about things he told me about Bob's broken arm, but there is a pickle: Axel Heyst has been claiming some phony executive privilege thus refusing to fucking testify about that fucking arm, that fucking conversation, that fucking Bob, and fucking everything.
It seems to me that Axel Heyst believes that as long as he (and a bunch of his cultist friends) are refusing to testify, he can stick to that ridiculous "hearsay" narrative. Then he and his cultist friends can go ahead and claim that a career government employee would happily lie through her teeth under oath and put herself in a real legal jeopardy.
For fucking what?
This "hearsay" theory is as laughable as any other "defense" you fellas are so desperately trying to re-invent to protect your cult leader. RE-invent because there is nothing new about it. All this nonsense has been raised many times during these 60+ Trump lawsuits thrown out all over the country. This POS "hearsay" saga will meet the same end.
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07-31-22 22:17 #9369
Posts: 3160Originally Posted by Spidy [View Original Post]
You have not one shred of objective proof that Trump being president had anything to do with Covid deaths. You dumb Dems just find a narrative, any narrative, to blame Trump for Covid and go with it.
Every single intervention you have criticized him for (masks, quarantines, travel bans, lockdowns, and finally vaccines) has not just been an utter failure but often harmful to the public. The latest narration debacle is some team of doctors he dissolved in 2018 could have stopped the pandemic, and the only reason you have gone for that is everything else has failed.
I do not know anyone who took the injecting bleach comment seriously. I thought it was a joke, and everyone in the media called it stupid at the time. But no one thought Biden saying "if you get vaccinated, you will not get Covid" was a joke. Yet for some reason, you dumb Dems take a stupid comment / joke as one of great importance, and give Biden being dead wrong a pass. The objective people here know that is because you dumb Dems are a bunch of lying hypocrites.
No one is taking you seriously now Spidy. You rank up there with Eih telling us how great the USA is doing from Thailand and what a splendid president Jimmy Carter was. I will read your posts like I read his, for comic relief.
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07-31-22 21:48 #9368
Posts: 1092Crocodile tears...
Originally Posted by Elvis2008 [View Original Post]
Originally Posted by Elvis2008 [View Original Post]
You say that, like Agent Orange's mad fuel induced rants and raves on Twitter didn't have CONSEQUENCES, to the lives of suffering Americans.
If America was looking for an anodyne president, to ease their suffering, under Agent Orange, they only experience "heartburn".
Agent Orange's "Ode to Tweet":
-tweets that tell you to take "Clorox Bleach" for COVID and watch what happens.
-tweets that tell Latin Americans they are rapists, job stealing, taco bowl immigrants.
-tweets that incite violence.
-tweets that incite an attempted insurrection / coup.
-tweets that lie about rigged elections and place election workers lives in harms way.
-mad, racist tweets that -embraces and endorses violence of one group over another.
-mad, racist tweets that endorses white supremacy factions (ie. Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, Biker Gangs, KKK).
-mad, racist tweets that and other right-wing militias and extremist groups.
-The now infamous tweet ordering followers to come to the. See. On January 6. "Will be huge!" he declared. (knowing full well his "cult faithless" were weaponized and ready to KILL Mike Pense, Nancy Pelosi and others).
Need I go on? Why else are there literally reams of websites / pages on the internet and tweeter verse, that are littered with his racist, bigoted lies, delusional rants, buffoonery and gaffes.
His presidency is one big blooper real. Still incredulous?
Here's more:
https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertain...s-so-far.html/
https://news.sky.com/story/us-electi...weets-12098204
https://www.forbes.com/pictures/flji...ps-10-most-of/
https://www.wired.com/story/tweets-g...ar-from-worst/
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...sult-list.html
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/worst...b07823f9514fb1
https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...nsults-223222/
https://news.sky.com/story/trumps-tw...trump-12182992
Well, if that's not clear enough yet, that mad capped, unhinged racist, misinformed, mad ranting tweets from a standing president, much like spoken words, have dire consequences to suffering Americans (especially a president with close to 1/2 million Americans COVID deaths under their watch), I don't know what is.
But perhaps you're the one, just too "dense" to understand. .
His racist hate speeches/tweets, lying, dishonesty, spreading falsehoods, misinformation and untruths either by written words, spoken words or via tweeter are tantamount and absolutely did cause wide spread untold suffering among Americans.
But it's clear now, YOU ARE maybe too "dense" to grasp, the basic traits one should look for in a good president, that governs for ALL Americans. Americans are still suffering in the wake of is ineptitude.
BTW, I'll take a little economic suffering from a standing president over getting "Clorox" killed by one.