American Politics

[EihTooms]

What you and Tooms refuse to accept is that Politifact is biased and, more importantly, MSNBC and NBC were clumped into one category by Politifact. If, say, Fox and the Wall Street Journal or Fox and the Associated Press were combined, the numbers would be different.

I've watched more MSNBC than Fox News over the last 5 years. You probably never watch Fox so you don't know. Some years ago the Pew Center looked at how much of the networks' programming was dedicated to "opinion" versus "news. " This is from Politico"

"In March, a Pew Research Center study -- yes, Pew -- found that 85 percent of MSNBC's programming is dedicated to "opinion," versus 15 percent that is dedicated to "news. " Fox News dedicated just 55 percent of its programming to "opinion" and 45 percent to "news. " (CNN dedicates 46 percent to "opinion" and 54 percent to "news. ") During the 2012 election, the ratio of unfavorable to favorable treatment in stories on Barack Obama and Mitt Romney on MSNBC "was roughly 23-to-1; the negative-to-positive ratio on Fox News was 8-to-1. ".

"Ok, fine. But MSNBC's opinions are rooted in fact, whereas the Bill O'Reillys and Sean Hannitys willingly peddle misinformation!

But see, that's the thing. Many of MSNBC's opinions aren't rooted in fact. Many of them are rooted in unfounded speculation. Melissa Harris-Perry's recent claim that Obamacare is a racially loaded term conceived of "by a group of wealthy white men who needed a way to put themselves above and apart from a black man" is based on. What? The fact that the term was first used by a woman? The fact that, from Reaganomics to Hillarycare, we've always ascribed names to signature policies and legislation?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. In a new essay for The National Review, Charles see. W. Cooke explains how MSNBC routinely demonizes the opposition to the point of absurdity...."

https://www.politico.com/blogs/media...ox-news-179175

Now, admittedly, as Tooms effectively pointed out, the gap in the level of propaganda on Fox versus MSNBC narrowed somewhat after Fox learned its viewers wanted favorable coverage on Trump. But it's still there. Look at the hosts. On MSNBC, the only one who's halfway objective is Chris Jansing. John Roberts, Neil Cavuto, Bret Baier and Dana Perino fall into the same category as Jansing -- partisan but reasonably objective. And look at the hosts who have moved on in recent years. Chris Wallace is a Democrat. Shepard Smith is probably is probably a gay Democrat. On the MSNBC side, Chuck Todd was reasonably objective but certainly left leaning.

Newsmax and OAN arose because they thought there was a niche to the right of Fox. Nobody's going to find a niche to the left of MSNBC, because practically you can't go farther left. Thankfully, there's no market for a Socialist or Communist channel in the USA.

Of course, this makes no difference to partisan Democrats, because, like Fundamentalist Christians and Muslims, they believe their side has a monopoly on the truth and the rest of the world are infidels. Therefore MSNBC tells the truth and Fox lies.

I repost one of the Politifact links in question:

https://www.politifact.com/article/2...-meter-scorec/

If you reread it or, more likely, read it for the first time, I think you will notice for this overview Politifact is only talking about "cable networks". And, more specifically on the issue, it is about what "pundits and hosts" say on the various networks.

It is not about what is asserted as "news" on the various networks.

Although CNN (Cable News Network), Fux News Channel and NBC do have supposedly hard news reporting segments and programs, only Fux News Channel highlights and features the actual word "NEWS" on screen throughout the entirety of its now proven festival of Right Wing lies fully encouraged and promoted by the owner and management of the organization. In other words, EVERYTHING the "pundits and hosts" say is asserted and pawned off as hard news and not mere Right Wing lies and opinion.

MSNBC does not.

The hard news segments on MSNBC necessarily mirror the national news as reported on the hard news segments of its parent, NBC.

There is no national news hour, half hour or even 15 minutes on Fux News Channel's parent company. Therefore, there is no pressure on Fux News Channel to worry about totally contradicting what is reported as hard news on their non existant, say, "Fux Evening News Hour" while their "pundits and hosts" try to pass off their Right Wing lies as "news" 24/7/365 and 366 in Leap Years.

By design from the very beginning of it.

[EihTooms]

Yes, of course he does. If Romney and likeminded politicians and bureaucrats controlled the USA for a long stretch, our economic performance and prosperity would be second to none.

Sure. And maybe in just 4 years they could get the Unrmployment Rate down to 6%.

As bold and challenging as they and their pro-Repub Bothsider support system in Mainstream Media might think of such a lofty goal, based on what possible evidence and historical precedence have you come to such a ridiculous conclusion?

[Tiny 12]

But, like all Repubs, he (Romney) thinks he knows better than the least successful Dem in that regard for how to do it.

Yes, of course he does. If Romney and likeminded politicians and bureaucrats controlled the USA for a long stretch, our economic performance and prosperity would be second to none.

[Tiny 12]

FOXY News, being the worst is just so inescapably obvious, it's just dumbfounding how it's viewers can't see it.

What you and Tooms refuse to accept is that Politifact is biased and, more importantly, MSNBC and NBC were clumped into one category by Politifact. If, say, Fox and the Wall Street Journal or Fox and the Associated Press were combined, the numbers would be different.

Well you're right about one thing, FOXY News is hilarious ...(kkkk!). And it really comes as no surprise that you like being lied to...carry on!

I've watched more MSNBC than Fox News over the last 5 years. You probably never watch Fox so you don't know. Some years ago the Pew Center looked at how much of the networks' programming was dedicated to "opinion" versus "news. " This is from Politico"

"In March, a Pew Research Center study -- yes, Pew -- found that 85 percent of MSNBC's programming is dedicated to "opinion," versus 15 percent that is dedicated to "news. " Fox News dedicated just 55 percent of its programming to "opinion" and 45 percent to "news. " (CNN dedicates 46 percent to "opinion" and 54 percent to "news. ") During the 2012 election, the ratio of unfavorable to favorable treatment in stories on Barack Obama and Mitt Romney on MSNBC "was roughly 23-to-1; the negative-to-positive ratio on Fox News was 8-to-1. ".

"Ok, fine. But MSNBC's opinions are rooted in fact, whereas the Bill O'Reillys and Sean Hannitys willingly peddle misinformation!

But see, that's the thing. Many of MSNBC's opinions aren't rooted in fact. Many of them are rooted in unfounded speculation. Melissa Harris-Perry's recent claim that Obamacare is a racially loaded term conceived of "by a group of wealthy white men who needed a way to put themselves above and apart from a black man" is based on. What? The fact that the term was first used by a woman? The fact that, from Reaganomics to Hillarycare, we've always ascribed names to signature policies and legislation?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. In a new essay for The National Review, Charles see. W. Cooke explains how MSNBC routinely demonizes the opposition to the point of absurdity...."

https://www.politico.com/blogs/media...ox-news-179175

Now, admittedly, as Tooms effectively pointed out, the gap in the level of propaganda on Fox versus MSNBC narrowed somewhat after Fox learned its viewers wanted favorable coverage on Trump. But it's still there. Look at the hosts. On MSNBC, the only one who's halfway objective is Chris Jansing. John Roberts, Neil Cavuto, Bret Baier and Dana Perino fall into the same category as Jansing -- partisan but reasonably objective. And look at the hosts who have moved on in recent years. Chris Wallace is a Democrat. Shepard Smith is probably is probably a gay Democrat. On the MSNBC side, Chuck Todd was reasonably objective but certainly left leaning.

Newsmax and OAN arose because they thought there was a niche to the right of Fox. Nobody's going to find a niche to the left of MSNBC, because practically you can't go farther left. Thankfully, there's no market for a Socialist or Communist channel in the USA.

Of course, this makes no difference to partisan Democrats, because, like Fundamentalist Christians and Muslims, they believe their side has a monopoly on the truth and the rest of the world are infidels. Therefore MSNBC tells the truth and Fox lies.

[Spidy]

Has the long term Fux Fake News Liar problem gotten worse lately? Yes, much worse.

But the pattern in any Google Search I have made on the topic puts Fux News clearly in the lead among Fake News Liars, MSNBC far behind in 2nd Place and CNN the least Fake News Liar of those three:

https://www.politifact.com/article/2...-meter-scorec/ ...

FOXY News, being the worst is just so inescapably obvious, it's just dumbfounding how it's viewers can't see it.

Analysis: Fox News has been exposed as a dishonest organization terrified of its own audience. February 17, 2023

"... the networks senior-most executives and highest-profile hosts chose not to disclose what they believed to be the truth of the election out of fear that that the facts would alienate Fox News audience and throw the highly profitable business into ruin. "

Yep, that explains it!

Pity a more up-to-date chart/survey isn't available, as I would imagine it would look a lot different with CNN now that the right-wing billionaire, Malone, looks to revamp CNN into a "FOX News" dumpster fire, as staff members fear.

[Spidy]

I collectively watch more MSNBC and CNN than Fox. All three lie to me. MSNBC lies the most, 24 hours a day, every day. However, during the evenings Fox does a pretty

good job of matching them, lie for lie. And no, I don't mind it. It's hilarious!

Well you're right about one thing, FOXY News is hilarious ...(kkkk!). And it really comes as no surprise that you like being lied to...carry on!

Ray Epps, Target of Conspiracy Theory, Pleads Guilty to Jan. 6 ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/20/u...ds-guilty.html

...It's somewhat reminiscent of Ray Epp's situation. Epps was a strong supporter of Trump, and a regional leader of the Oath Keepers. Because of a false conspiracy theory spread by Revolver and Tucker Carlson, that he was some kind of federal agent, he had to sell his business and house in Arizona and go into semi hiding somewhere in the Rockies. Epps says the government is going to soon charge him for encouraging people to peacefully trespass on Capitol grounds on January 6. That may actually help him. Maybe it will cause his potential persecutors to realize he wasnt a government agent. ...

Now things are getting interesting. Your dude, Ray Epps, just got charged by the DOJ and plead guilty to conspiracy...Yikes!

Looks like you maybe onto something, with his FOXY News lawsuit, I hope it helps...but I'm still not certain about that.

...If there ever was a case where a more apropos saying of, "He that lies/sleeps with dogs, riseth with fleas", I'd have to say, Ray Epp's case is a classic example. Good luck to him and his FOXY News lawsuit. ...

In Ray Epps, words: " ...I went to the J6 protest, believing FOX News. I believed FOX news...that is until they LIED ABOUT ME"

[Spidy]

Anything you don't like is Fox News. That was actually Matt Taibbi doing something you don't recognize Spidy, telling the truth.

Don't know who the guy is?

As of for the truth...well that's pretty much in the eye of the beholder, for the most part. Now this concept my seem forigen to you and QAnon/MAGA Repubs cult fringe, but incontrovertible FACTS and HARD EVIDENCE, is definitely something I can hang my hat on.

When Did Republicans Start Hating Facts?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/14/o...formation.html

And by lies, you mean what? You mean Joe Biden did not get Shokin fired? You mean Shokin was not investigating Hunter for a corrupt business deal? You mean Hunter did not say in his laptop that Dad gets half of all he earns? You mean the FBI did not want that 1023 non-classified document released? You mean the memo did not say $5 million for each Biden? And Hunter Biden did not himself say that he would not have been hired by Burisma if not for his last name?

Life's too short! Like I said, I tend not to pay too much attention to hearsay, lies and conspiracy theories. Perhaps when hard facts, material evidence and "flesh and blood" witnesses show up to testify I'll pay more attention.

[EihTooms]

Brother Marquis and Brother Tooms, I'm glad I've brought you together and healed the hatred and loathing in your hearts. OK, "hatred and loathing" is much too strong. But see, you're united in your opinion of Mitt Romney! While I disagree with you about Mitt, I hope some day in some faraway place we can join hands and sing Kumbaya!

I don't think we are exactly united in our negative opinion of MittWitt. Also, we have formed a negative one of him for different reasons.

I assume Marquis hates him for having half the guts to vote to convict his lord and savior in the Senate for at least one of his blatantly obvious Impeachment-worthy infractions; his clumsy, fully witnessed attempt to extort Zelenskyy into fabricating dirt on Biden with our tax dollars specifically earmarked by Congress to defend his country from Putin's idiotic invasion.

I don't hate MittWitt. I only dismiss him as just another Know Nothing Repub who clearly doesn't know anything about how to recover, expand and create jobs in a complex national economy like the USA economy. But, like all Repubs, he thinks he knows better than the least successful Dem in that regard for how to do it. Which he does not, of course.

Interesting that Marquis often implores me to use drugs in order to see things his way and now he wants you to stop using drugs to achieve the same result.

[MarquisdeSade1]

"That's plain silly Marquis. Biden would lose to any of the Republican candidates save one. But he would beat Charles Manson and Donald Trump.

Romney was a management consultant then private equity head for Bain capital. He created more jobs than he destroyed, and improved productivity at the companies he advised and helped acquire. If you believe experience in the private sector is relevant to government, then Romney's your man if you want the USA to be an economic and industrial power house.

Trump on the other hand started with $400 million from his father and over $1 billion from bondholders and banks who he didn't repay. And that was back when $1. 4 billion was a lot of money. And ended up with assets that are worth less than what he started with after you account for inflation.

You and I paid a lot more taxes than Trump did in many years, because he was able to use that $1 billion that he didn't repay the bondholders as a carried forward tax loss for many years. Based on Trump's experience in the private sector, you might expect him to run up the national debt and push for rock bottom interest rates, like he did with his Atlantic City casinos and banks. And he did that. Romney on the other hand was better prepared from his business experience to make America competitive and prosperous again.

That's not to say that Trump wasn't head and shoulders above Biden in terms of economic policy. He was.

Flake is an American hero. Please educate me on how he used Mexican slave labor."

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...o-fifth-place/

[MarquisdeSade1]

"Mormons don't pray to Donald Trump. They pray to God and golden plates. And they call the devil "Satan", not "Mitt Romney."

But they should, I do and I'm an ardent atheist!

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...rican-history/

There is but one true god.

Donald J Trump.

[Tiny 12]

Brother Marquis and Brother Tooms, I'm glad I've brought you together and healed the hatred and loathing in your hearts. OK, "hatred and loathing" is much too strong. But see, you're united in your opinion of Mitt Romney! While I disagree with you about Mitt, I hope some day in some faraway place we can join hands and sing Kumbaya!

[Tiny 12]

Or is it another, "Google (or Politifact or all available evidence, etc) is Left Leaning and the Repub Party memo demands that I say it can not be trusted so I will stick with that notion as my excuse for not substantiating what I just pulled out of my butt" response?

I am not a Democratic Party Politician or Pundit. The only things I pull out of my ass are dingleberries.

[Tiny 12]

Flake is no hero hes a turd if he had an ounce of honor he and Romney would both kill themselves for bringing such shame to the Church.

Mormons don't pray to Donald Trump. They pray to God and golden plates. And they call the devil "Satan", not "Mitt Romney."

[MarquisdeSade1]

"That's plain silly Marquis. Biden would lose to any of the Republican candidates save one. But he would beat Charles Manson and Donald Trump.

Romney was a management consultant then private equity head for Bain capital. He created more jobs than he destroyed, and improved productivity at the companies he advised and helped acquire. If you believe experience in the private sector is relevant to government, then Romney's your man if you want the USA to be an economic and industrial power house.

Trump on the other hand started with $400 million from his father and over $1 billion from bondholders and banks who he didn't repay. And that was back when $1. 4 billion was a lot of money. And ended up with assets that are worth less than what he started with after you account for inflation.

You and I paid a lot more taxes than Trump did in many years, because he was able to use that $1 billion that he didn't repay the bondholders as a carried forward tax loss for many years. Based on Trump's experience in the private sector, you might expect him to run up the national debt and push for rock bottom interest rates, like he did with his Atlantic City casinos and banks. And he did that. Romney on the other hand was better prepared from his business experience to make America competitive and prosperous again.

That's not to say that Trump wasn't head and shoulders above Biden in terms of economic policy. He was.

Flake is an American hero. Please educate me on how he used Mexican slave labor. ".

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...ge-and-gaffes/

[MarquisdeSade1]

"So, as opposed to links describing or showing Biden lying, and there are many, I'm supposed to find links of a major televised campaign speech where Biden says something about someone who won't run against him. That should be easy but it's pointless. And find where he says we might begin World War II. OK, he is kind of senile, but I think he knows World War II happened a long time ago.

Unusually, your post isn't comprehensible, to me at least, so I don't understand what you're getting at. But I suspect you're trying to do the three card monte deal. Like where we're supposed to totally ignore every Republican state with a large population and every Democratic state with a small population and then say the country is a an oligarchy ruled by the landed class. ".

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2023...f-ukraine-war/