American Politics

[JustTK]

Sure, let's compare the USA to a country whose average age is 55 as opposed to 38. The USA will appear much better. Or, let's compare the USA to a country that has an average yearly income of $500 USD. The USA will appear much better.
When someone publishes figures for vaccine hesitancy or by obesity, I'll take a look. But until then, "rich countries with a similar age demographic" is all there is. The only people who are too dumb to see that are Republicans.

I didn't say that. I simply said the results of such a comparison are very limited, and no better than other comparisons. Explain please what you expect to learn from comparing it to a country of equal wealth. What does wealth have to do with likely outcome? Absolutely nothing. Check out other wealthy countries such as UK, Italy, Spain, France. Through a dice and it would be more predictabble. You are thinking its a useful comparison, but it just isn't. There is no correlation between wealth and outcome. Loads of poor countries are the top and bottom.

'The only people who are too dumb to see that are Republicans. '.

People that make such ridiculous assertions are really the dumb ones.

[Gino02]

Nina Jankowicz has resigned from the Ministry of Truth and its operations have been suspended and may be completely shut down due to the widespread mockery of her insane singing and being exposed as a disinformation agent herself!

- Mark Dice on Twitter.

https://thehill.com/news/state-watch...rmation-board/

[PVMonger]

Right, right, right! Haha.

Yes, but you could make any other comparison that you wish to make. Why is demogrpahic or wealth, any better a comparison to many other factors you could choose? Why not compare the country with one that the same levels of obesity. Or same levels of vaccine hesitancy. Or same lack of publci health care?

But regardless, ypu are choosing to argue about smthg that is totally tangential to my post. Which was how much freedom are you prepared to give up to save lives?

Sure, let's compare the USA to a country whose average age is 55 as opposed to 38. The USA will appear much better. Or, let's compare the USA to a country that has an average yearly income of $500 USD. The USA will appear much better.

When someone publishes figures for vaccine hesitancy or by obesity, I'll take a look. But until then, "rich countries with a similar age demographic" is all there is. The only people who are too dumb to see that are Republicans.

[PVMonger]

You're right, it's complicated.

But as a simple guy, what's good for Umberto Eco is good for me. I've found 13 matching fascist features (out of 14) in modern Russia and at least 11 in the personality of Donald Trump. Can't go wrong IMHO.

https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/...f-fascism.html

I personally hate well-intentioned idiots as much as evil bigots.

Just don't vote. I know it's not ideal, but nothing is. It's dishonest for a centrist to go either way.

I'm interested in your opinion of which 3 of the 14 you don't ascribe to the Orange Buffoon.

[PVMonger]

Right, right, right! Haha.

Yes, but you could make any other comparison that you wish to make. Why is demogrpahic or wealth, any better a comparison to many other factors you could choose? Why not compare the country with one that the same levels of obesity. Or same levels of vaccine hesitancy. Or same lack of publci health care?

But regardless, ypu are choosing to argue about smthg that is totally tangential to my post. Which was how much freedom are you prepared to give up to save lives?

Ahhh, yes. The standard MAGA question, isn't it? Because Republicans like to frame everything as "freedom related" as opposed to "responsibility related".

Not "How much are you willing to do to protect everybody else"? The Republican answer would be I am willing to do nothing.

Not "What are you willing to do to prevent the healthcare system from breaking"? (The Republican answer would be I am willing to do nothing. ).

How about this? Your favorite watering hole has a "No shirt. No shoes. No Service." policy. When a shoeless, and shirtless person enters, do you 1. Beat the crap out of him? Or 2. Toss him out on his ear? Or 3. Offer to buy him a drink? You, of course, can't see the parallels but that's what makes you a good Republican. But don't worry because Tucker "Even my lawyer argued that nobody in their right mind should believe anything I say" Carlson doesn't get it either.

[MarquisdeSade1]

We could also argue who is literate and who is not.

Hahaha.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/white-...uciating-watch

[Xpartan]

But then it comes down to how you define "Fascist. " That's actually fairly complicated, with a historical context stretching back to the post WW I era.

You're right, it's complicated.

But as a simple guy, what's good for Umberto Eco is good for me. I've found 13 matching fascist features (out of 14) in modern Russia and at least 11 in the personality of Donald Trump. Can't go wrong IMHO.

https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/...f-fascism.html

And what about center and left-center voters who are faced with the choice between a MAGA candidate who pushes the whole catalog of wingnut conspiracy theories, including the great replacement theory, and one all hot for LGBTQ issues like allowing athletes born with XY chromosomes to play women's collegiate sports. That's where the phrase "hold your nose" often comes from.

I personally hate well-intentioned idiots as much as evil bigots.

Just don't vote. I know it's not ideal, but nothing is. It's dishonest for a centrist to go either way.

[JustTK]

You said "It's equally valid to compare USA to Aus, as it is to compare it to ay other country. " Wrong, wrong wrong!
The article compared the US to Australia because Australia has about the same population demographic and because Australia is a "rich" country.

Right, right, right! Haha.

Yes, but you could make any other comparison that you wish to make. Why is demogrpahic or wealth, any better a comparison to many other factors you could choose? Why not compare the country with one that the same levels of obesity. Or same levels of vaccine hesitancy. Or same lack of publci health care?

But regardless, ypu are choosing to argue about smthg that is totally tangential to my post. Which was how much freedom are you prepared to give up to save lives?

[Paulie97]

OK, maybe you're right. But voting for fascists leads to the same result whether a voter is fascist or not. Let's think about it from another angle. Can you imagine a liberal voting for a communist or Maoist or another leftist extremist? Hell, no. So what is it about right-wingers that makes them stick to the ideology while dismissing all warning signs?

For a conservative, voting for fascists like Trump or LE Pen even if only due to their tribal affiliations makes them at least enablers of fascism, IMHO.

But then it comes down to how you define "Fascist. " That's actually fairly complicated, with a historical context stretching back to the post WW I era. And what about center and left-center voters who are faced with the choice between a MAGA candidate who pushes the whole catalog of wingnut conspiracy theories, including the great replacement theory, and one all hot for LGBTQ issues like allowing athletes born with XY chromosomes to play women's collegiate sports. That's where the phrase "hold your nose" often comes from.

[Xpartan]

That 40% is schewed as LE Pen only got 23% in the first round with another far right candidate picking up 7.47 to 32% of Republicans (depending on how the polling questions are worded) believe the 2020 election was legit. Thus once down to a two way not all who voted for Trump is a MAGA fanatic or could be called a Fascist. The same can surely be said of those who voted for LE Pen in the final round.

OK, maybe you're right. But voting for fascists leads to the same result whether a voter is fascist or not. Let's think about it from another angle. Can you imagine a liberal voting for a communist or Maoist or another leftist extremist? Hell, no. So what is it about right-wingers that makes them stick to the ideology while dismissing all warning signs?

For a conservative, voting for fascists like Trump or LE Pen even if only due to their tribal affiliations makes them at least enablers of fascism, IMHO.

[JustTK]

You guys are just crazy, I think you want Covid to drag on forever, just like most liberal's. This is the main difference between Rep. And Dem....the bottom line is everyone did there best, nobody tried to kill people
Now we are dealing with the ramifications from the crazy ass lockdowns, and it is not good. ... You guys may get your wish and nobody will have jobs and will be living off the government.

Then you must have totally misunderstood my post. I didn't state an opinion on lcokdowns. Personally I am anti-lockdown and pro-public healthcare. That is a position of neither party. .

[Paulie97]

You guys are just crazy, I think you want Covid to drag on forever, just like most liberal's. This needs to end and we need to move forward. This is the main difference between Rep. And Dem. I think you guys really do not want Covid to end. You can argue who was write or wrong, the bottom line is everyone did there best, nobody tried to kill people, Covid was terrible for everyone.

Now we are dealing with the ramifications from the crazy ass lockdowns, and it is not good. Now we have Shortages and major supply chain issues. Many of shortages are being ignored by the media and the government.

Either way this is not good and we need solutions quickly before this spins out of control. You guys may get your wish and nobody will have jobs and will be living off the government.

As usual all you have to offer is straw men and personal attacks. Covid IS going to "drag on forever" as it is in the process of becoming endemic. Restrictions relieved stress on hospital systems, so bodies didn't flow out into the streets and beds were available for non-Covid related emergencies. Restrictions also bought us time to develop vaccines and effective treatments. Many countries struck a pretty good balance between maintaining a levels of freedom and economic activity while saving lives and relieving our healthcare systems.

P.S. Covid of course only wants a host and couldn't care less what label you attach to yourself, whether moderate, progressive, conservative, MAGA, or the "liberal" that conservatives over time turned into a pegorative. It's the right wing nuts that have been doing most of the politicizing, and that likely cost Trump the election. And this while they have killed off an unnecessary proportion of their voters, as red states as a whole have considering higher Covid death rates than the blue.

You guys are just crazy, I think you want Covid to drag on forever, just like most liberal's. This needs to end and we need to move forward. This is the main difference between Rep. And Dem. I think you guys really do not want Covid to end. You can argue who was write or wrong, the bottom line is everyone did there best, nobody tried to kill people, Covid was terrible for everyone.

Now we are dealing with the ramifications from the crazy ass lockdowns, and it is not good. Now we have Shortages and major supply chain issues. Many of shortages are being ignored by the media and the government.

Either way this is not good and we need solutions quickly before this spins out of control. You guys may get your wish and nobody will have jobs and will be living off the government.

As usual all you have to offer is straw men and personal attacks. Covid IS going to "drag on forever" as it is in the process of becoming endemic. Restrictions relieved stress on hospital systems, so bodies didn't flow out into the streets and beds were available for non-Covid related emergencies. Restrictions also bought us time to develop vaccines and effective treatments. Many countries struck a pretty good balance between maintaining levels of freedom and economic activity while saving lives and relieving our healthcare systems.

Covid of course only wants a host and couldn't care less what label you attach to yourself, whether moderate, progressive, conservative, MAGA, or the "liberal" that conservatives over time turned into a pejorative. It's the right wing nuts that have been doing most of the politicizing, and that likely cost Trump the election. They've also with their obstinance effectively and unnecessarily killed off a substantial proportion of their voters, as red states as a whole have much higher Covid death rates than the blue. Thus no one should be moved when they want to go online and sling mud.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/red-bl...ry?id=83649085

[ScatManDoo]

You guys are just crazy, I think you want Covid to drag on forever, just like most liberal's. This needs to end and we need to move forward. This is the main difference between Rep. And Dem. I think you guys really do not want Covid to end. You can argue who was write or wrong,

We could also argue who is literate and who is not.

Hahaha.

People who refuse to get immunized and people who refuse to wear masks are prolonging this pandemic.

[Elvis 2008]

Coming to this thread after awhile, and what I see? There are still some "experts" here trying to defend Buyden collapse! Wow! Even the Democratic Party machinery moved on from this administration's failure LOL.

Yeah, the Dems have not gotten over Trump. After watching 2000 mules and listening to the jack offs here, it is not only obvious that the dumb Dems rigged the election and are attacking freedom of speech and the first amendment because they do not want anyone talking about it. Add in Biden's attempt to federalize the election controls and it is obvious what happened.

The latest NYT belching on Covid is the same old crap. "If only we had done what South Korea had done, we would be fine. " It is like someone then told the NYT that South Korea is now #8 in cases in the world, and the latest golden child is Australia. So the NYT changes South Korea to Australia. Of course, they only talk about the Covid deaths. The harsh Australian lockdowns caused horrible emotional distress. Thing is Covid is polling in last place with regards to what people care about.

The latest Biden move is to say some 18 year old nut job who actually trashed Fox news and was in a nut house a year ago killed people in Buffalo because of free speech. Yeah, we cannot have that.

I come here because I am short the market and I need to be reminded how fucking crazy these dumb Dems are. Trump killed one million people with Covid. The election was not rigged. If you voted for Trump, you are a racist moron. We cannot have freedom of speech, the second amendment, fourth amendment nor due process. The swamp can break the law, but you better not. Going to the brink of nuclear war with a country no one really cares about is sound policy. Inflation and the supply chain issues are Trump's fault. The borders are fine. If people have to hungry because of the war in Ukraine, it is worth it for the sake of Democracy. Simply put, if it is good, it is Democrat. If it is bad, it is Republican. There is zero attempt to get to the bottom of any issue.

I have never seen a political party so devoid of ideas. I invested along side Obama and did well. Thing is with this clown Biden there I see no good arguments or policies. They are all a disaster. Yeah, the smart Dems have moved on but we do not have smart Dems here.

[PVMonger]

It's equally valid to compare USA to Aus, as it is to compare it to ay other country. As long as one understands the playing fiield.

In 2019 Aus had 8.7 million international tourists. In 2018 NYC alone had 13.8 million international visitors. Domestic tourism accounts for 73% of total tourism revenues in Aus. It is clear that Aus is a far, far more isolated and remote destination. At 3.000 USA deaths per million (likely underreported by 25%) compared to 300 in Aus, clearly there is a major difference. Healthcare system and state of public health in general will have an effect, as would government policy. Aus imposed extremely authoritarian controls on personal freedoms, USA did not. In fact, people from the USA were just about the only regular international travellers over the past 2 years.

As much as we do not like to accept it, we all face the question. How much death are we prepared to accept in our way of life? There are countles things we could do if we changed how we all lived to reduce death, but we don't do them because we have come to accept that those deaths are tolerable. So how much is tolerable from a new disease like COVID?.

You said "It's equally valid to compare USA to Aus, as it is to compare it to ay other country. " Wrong, wrong wrong!

The article (which you obviously did not read) compared the US to Australia because Australia has about the same population demographic and because Australia is a "rich" country. You can blather on and on about all sorts of things yet the big determining factor was that Australians believed that their government was trying to do the right thing whereas 30+% of the US thought (and still think) that the whole thing was a big hoax or nothing more than the flu or any one of a hundred other stupid ideas. Australians, as a people, were willing to do the right thing for their fellow citizens. 30+% of Americans were not.

Sure, health care plays a part. But overrun hospitals are overrun hospitals, no matter how you slice it and no matter whether or not the country offered "single payer" healthcare.

The simple facts are that the US government "screwed the pooch" when it came to COVID response and the governmental leadership was so lacking that a million people died. "Failure of capitalism"? Hogwash.