American Politics

[JustTK]

Of course wealth alone isn't a useful metric. But wealth combined with another metric is much more helpful. Why am I focusing on "wealth"? Because wealthy countries tend to have better health care systems. Wealthy countries tend to have lots of people who work in offices. Wealthy countries tend to have diverse racial populations.

The perfect metric would be wealthy countries with a similar age profile with a similar vaccine hesitancy with a similar rate of obesity.

Well first of all thank you for finally responding in a positive manner. Now we could have a more productive exchange. I still propose wealth w age is not very useful, and stil does not get you to an explanation of a cause for variation in results. There are far too many variables, as I mentioned before. In the case of Aus v USA. Explanations could be: - differences in general health of people, geographical location, state of public health care, vaccine hesitancy, cultural beliefs (Aus are a cowed lot who are submissive to authoritarian rule). So, to arrive at smthg like "government policy was the main cause of the poor USA result)" is completely unproven. Sure, it did play a part, but we do not know how significant it was, nor how an alternative party would have performed. And equally important is whether the public would have accepted an isolationist approach that Aus took (remember, they had to backtrack on the original zero-covid policy too).

I don; t think it's very productive. What I thinkis more productive is to campaign for better public health systems, and to stamp out the obvious lies and corruption in government between big pharma. It has been a hiuge money making racket, equal to false flag wars. Both parties are equally as culpable for the current state the USA is in.

[PVMonger]

In the USA, it is 3071 versus 2745 in Italy. So what? Thing you Dems keep trying to do is make numbers like this reflect government competence.

That is funny because there were a million cases a day in this country in January. So why are the cases numbers low now than then? Because the government is doing a 20 X better job now?

That is the thing you dumb Dems always do. You take on an issue like saying a government can cure a cold virus or set the climate or cure the opioid crisis, and Republicans are assholes for not caring about it. So you run around pointing a finger at us and say, "You do not care", and the solution is always the same, more government control, more spending, and higher taxes, and the results time after time are a disaster.

If you are so stupid as to think government is the answer with Covid, then the Biden administration has done a horrible job, and the numbers show that Biden did way worse than Trump. I do not see that government interventions did all that much with regards to Covid. If you think we got our money's worth spending $9 trillion on Covid, you are fucking nuts.

What surprises me is that you actually took the time to post this drivel.

And the Republicans, the party of limited government, wants government in everybody's bedrooms, everybody's boardrooms, everybody's amusement parks, everybody's libraries, everybody's classrooms. Everybody's everything. Limited government my ass. Talk about a bunch of morons!

[PVMonger]

I know the USA has a higher official death rate than nearly all other countries. Rich or poor. I never said it didn't. I never said Italy, UK, France and Spain did worse. I said they are also wealthy and performed poorly, and that wealth was not a useful metric.

You don't seem able to have an honest conversation so I am out.

My contention, and I have said it all along, is that compared to wealthy countries with similar age profiles, the US has done worse than all of them.

Your contention is that wealth is not a useful metric.

Of course wealth alone isn't a useful metric. But wealth combined with another metric is much more helpful. Why am I focusing on "wealth"? Because wealthy countries tend to have better health care systems. Wealthy countries tend to have lots of people who work in offices. Wealthy countries tend to have diverse racial populations.

The perfect metric would be wealthy countries with a similar age profile with a similar vaccine hesitancy with a similar rate of obesity.

[Paulie97]

You noticed, I said "at least" 11, LOL.

Here are the ones I'm not sure I can ascribe to our favorite dipshit:

1. The cult of tradition. "One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements. ".

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. "For your-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle. ".

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. "In your-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death..

Though I never get around to reading every post it seems clear that you put a lot of thought into defining Fascism. I applaud that. Frankly I was slow to call Trump a Fascist until the post election soft coups attempts accelerating into a violent one. Here's a historical piece drawing similarities between the George Wallace "white grievance" phenomenon and Trump while arguing that the former paved the way for the latter. There's plenty to digest, but I think it's dead on for the most part. Though much of the present penchant for paranoid conspiracy theories can be traced to Sara Palin, or at least in moving such into the GOP mainstream.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/histo...p-white-anger/

[Xpartan]

I'm interested in your opinion of which 3 of the 14 you don't ascribe to the Orange Buffoon.

You noticed, I said "at least" 11, LOL.

Here are the ones I'm not sure I can ascribe to our favorite dipshit:

1. The cult of tradition. "One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements. ".

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. "For your-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle. ".

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. "In your-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death. ".

[MarquisdeSade1]

Nina Jankowicz has resigned from the Ministry of Truth and its operations have been suspended and may be completely shut down due to the widespread mockery of her insane singing and being exposed as a disinformation agent herself!

- Mark Dice on Twitter.

https://thehill.com/news/state-watch...rmation-board/

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/hu...19/id/1070568/

[MarquisdeSade1]

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/ge...19/id/1070526/

How do these even get into the oval office?

Is it all rigged?

Wall street really loves the mindless puppets?

Ala.

#1 bubba.

#2 Barry Hussein.

#3 W 43.

#4 Biden.

#5 Bush 41.

#6 brain dead Ronnie.

My biggest electoral regret ever.

My vote for Bush over gore in 2000.

[JustTK]

That the US leads the pack in terms of COVID deaths per capita. Since Italy was not listed in the graph but since you inferred that the US did worse than Italy, look here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ What it shows is that the US fared worse than Italy in terms of COVID death per capita.
So, in terms of "wealthy country with similar age profiles" to the US, the US did worse than these other, similar, countries.
But go ahead, believe what you want.

I know the USA has a higher official death rate than nearly all other countries. Rich or poor. I never said it didn't. I never said Italy, UK, France and Spain did worse. I said they are also wealthy and performed poorly, and that wealth was not a useful metric.

You don't seem able to have an honest conversation so I am out.

[Elvis 2008]

When I originally posted my thought, I posted the following link.

Evidently you didn't read the link or couldn't read the link or missed the link or missed the part where I said "look at the last graph in the article". What does the last graph compare? All of the countries you mentioned above except Italy. And what does the graph show? That the US leads the pack in terms of COVID deaths per capita. Since Italy was not listed in the graph but since you inferred that the US did worse than Italy, look here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ What it shows is that the US fared worse than Italy in terms of COVID death per capita.

In the USA, it is 3071 versus 2745 in Italy. So what? Thing you Dems keep trying to do is make numbers like this reflect government competence.

That is funny because there were a million cases a day in this country in January. So why are the cases numbers low now than then? Because the government is doing a 20 X better job now?

That is the thing you dumb Dems always do. You take on an issue like saying a government can cure a cold virus or set the climate or cure the opioid crisis, and Republicans are assholes for not caring about it. So you run around pointing a finger at us and say, "You do not care", and the solution is always the same, more government control, more spending, and higher taxes, and the results time after time are a disaster.

If you are so stupid as to think government is the answer with Covid, then the Biden administration has done a horrible job, and the numbers show that Biden did way worse than Trump. I do not see that government interventions did all that much with regards to Covid. If you think we got our money's worth spending $9 trillion on Covid, you are fucking nuts.

[PVMonger]

I didn't say that. I simply said the results of such a comparison are very limited, and no better than other comparisons. Explain please what you expect to learn from comparing it to a country of equal wealth. What does wealth have to do with likely outcome? Absolutely nothing. Check out other wealthy countries such as UK, Italy, Spain, France. Through a dice and it would be more predictabble. You are thinking its a useful comparison, but it just isn't. There is no correlation between wealth and outcome. Loads of poor countries are the top and bottom.

'The only people who are too dumb to see that are Republicans. '.

People that make such ridiculous assertions are really the dumb ones.

When I originally posted my thought, I posted the following link: https://www.bbc.com/news/61333847.

Evidently you didn't read the link or couldn't read the link or missed the link or missed the part where I said "look at the last graph in the article". What does the last graph compare? All of the countries you mentioned above except Italy. And what does the graph show? That the US leads the pack in terms of COVID deaths per capita. Since Italy was not listed in the graph but since you inferred that the US did worse than Italy, look here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ What it shows is that the US fared worse than Italy in terms of COVID death per capita.

So, in terms of "wealthy country with similar age profiles" to the US, the US did worse than these other, similar, countries.

And, FYI, my comparison was between wealthy countries with similar age profiles to the US, not simply the US compared to other wealthy countries. If you read what I wrote, you will see that I clearly stated that assertion multiple times.

But go ahead, believe what you want.

[JustTK]

Ahhh, yes. The standard MAGA question, isn't it? Because Republicans like to frame everything as "freedom related" as opposed to "responsibility related".

Not "How much are you willing to do to protect everybody else"? The Republican answer would be I am willing to do nothing.

Not "What are you willing to do to prevent the healthcare system from breaking"? (The Republican answer would be I am willing to do nothing. ).

How about this? Your favorite watering hole has a "No shirt. No shoes. No Service." policy. When a shoeless, and shirtless person enters, do you 1. Beat the crap out of him? Or 2. Toss him out on his ear? Or 3. Offer to buy him a drink? You, of course, can't see the parallels but that's what makes you a good Republican. But don't worry because Tucker "Even my lawyer argued that nobody in their right mind should believe anything I say" Carlson doesn't get it either.

WTF are you talking about? You really have sunk down a deep pit of propaganda. Can you not discuss issues like a normal person instead of painting everything along (incorrect) political lines? If you knew my politics, you would know that you would be far nearert the tuth if you accussed Bernie Sanders of being of being a Republican. Bernie Sanders is a million miles to the right of me. Can't you appreciate that there is more than one vector? Maybe not from your responses. . But Right and Left is one axis of the politcal axis. That's Rep v Dem. Authority and liberty are on the other axis. This is where imposing regulations comes in. Its not Left or Right.

I am far, far left, and all for freedom. Stcik that in your blinkered Dem v Rep argumentation and smoke it. .

[JustTK]

Sure, let's compare the USA to a country whose average age is 55 as opposed to 38. The USA will appear much better. Or, let's compare the USA to a country that has an average yearly income of $500 USD. The USA will appear much better.
When someone publishes figures for vaccine hesitancy or by obesity, I'll take a look. But until then, "rich countries with a similar age demographic" is all there is. The only people who are too dumb to see that are Republicans.

I didn't say that. I simply said the results of such a comparison are very limited, and no better than other comparisons. Explain please what you expect to learn from comparing it to a country of equal wealth. What does wealth have to do with likely outcome? Absolutely nothing. Check out other wealthy countries such as UK, Italy, Spain, France. Through a dice and it would be more predictabble. You are thinking its a useful comparison, but it just isn't. There is no correlation between wealth and outcome. Loads of poor countries are the top and bottom.

'The only people who are too dumb to see that are Republicans. '.

People that make such ridiculous assertions are really the dumb ones.

[Gino02]

Nina Jankowicz has resigned from the Ministry of Truth and its operations have been suspended and may be completely shut down due to the widespread mockery of her insane singing and being exposed as a disinformation agent herself!

- Mark Dice on Twitter.

https://thehill.com/news/state-watch...rmation-board/

[PVMonger]

Right, right, right! Haha.

Yes, but you could make any other comparison that you wish to make. Why is demogrpahic or wealth, any better a comparison to many other factors you could choose? Why not compare the country with one that the same levels of obesity. Or same levels of vaccine hesitancy. Or same lack of publci health care?

But regardless, ypu are choosing to argue about smthg that is totally tangential to my post. Which was how much freedom are you prepared to give up to save lives?

Sure, let's compare the USA to a country whose average age is 55 as opposed to 38. The USA will appear much better. Or, let's compare the USA to a country that has an average yearly income of $500 USD. The USA will appear much better.

When someone publishes figures for vaccine hesitancy or by obesity, I'll take a look. But until then, "rich countries with a similar age demographic" is all there is. The only people who are too dumb to see that are Republicans.

[PVMonger]

You're right, it's complicated.

But as a simple guy, what's good for Umberto Eco is good for me. I've found 13 matching fascist features (out of 14) in modern Russia and at least 11 in the personality of Donald Trump. Can't go wrong IMHO.

https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/...f-fascism.html

I personally hate well-intentioned idiots as much as evil bigots.

Just don't vote. I know it's not ideal, but nothing is. It's dishonest for a centrist to go either way.

I'm interested in your opinion of which 3 of the 14 you don't ascribe to the Orange Buffoon.