American Politics

[EihTooms]

Hmmm, I wonder why a net 261,902 people left California in the year ended June 30, 2021, while 310,288 moved to Texas. Texas is hot as hell in summer, cold in winter, doesn't have many mountains, has crappy beaches, and doesn't have a fraction of the things to do that California has. Well, the 13.3% state income tax rate probably had something to do with Elon Musk moving. Not sure about the rest. Anyway I hope all the Democrats stay in California. I don't want them moving to where I live and voting.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/2022/04/25/-/media/data-visualizations/interactives/2016/fiscal-50/docs/2013/PopulationChangeData.xlsx?v=20220420

You'll have to ask them. I can only say whatever drop in the bucket decline in population California has seen it hasn't noticeably detrimentally effected property values and rent rates in my area. It would be great if it meant fewer cars on the freeways though. Then my area would be an even more attractive location for buyers and renters.

Maybe, like me, a lot of retiring baby boomers took the greater income, pensions, savings and real estate investment gains they made in California and either moved to depressed areas in Texas and other Red States where they could pretty much buy for cash and enjoy a life of leisure lording over the locals or move to a place more different, fun, exotic, exciting and pleasurable than anywhere in America, such as Bangkok.

[EihTooms]

Don't worry, boys, Nancy DeSantis is here to reduce the cost of gas for you!

DeSantis Takes Credit For Biden's Gas Tax Credit

https://crooksandliars.com/2022/10/g...esident-bidens

On October 3, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis celebrated an upcoming gas tax holiday in his state and tweeted out how in the month of October, working class Floridians will be saving money at the pump.

Our gas tax holiday went into effect on Saturday, which means Floridians will receive $0.25 off every gallon they purchase this month.

This relief will help hardworking families across the state save money at the pump.

- Ron DeSantis
October 3, 2022

.

Seriously, this bit where Repubs take undeserved credit for what the Dems shouldered all the heavy lifting and assumed all the political risk to accomplish has been so commonplace throughout history there are Repubs, pro Repub Bothsiders in typically pro Repub Mainstream Media and elsewhere along with other ill informed numbskulls who actually believe Repubs are better at handling the USA economy than Dems despite the overwhelming evidence, data and record of results proving the opposite.

"People will just believe you. You just tell them and they believe you", as Donald Trump said about his favorite target suckers.

[EihTooms]

Do you not understand the definition of the word "or"? Or do you not believe that the labor force participation rate went down between January, 2009 and December, 2016 because a Democrat was president? Or both?

I said that I had no idea whether Obama had anything to do with weak employment and GDP growth after the 2008/2009 recession. So you interpret that, and my link to and description of a St. Louis Fed data series, as a "vague suggestion" that Obama was responsible for a decline in labor force participation rate. And any vague criticism of a Democrat is a blatant lie.

I said that the anomalous increase in real median household income and wages and 50 year lows in the unemployment rate before COVID were partly attributable to the changes in corporate taxation in the TCJA and deregulation. I didn't relate that to the Republicans' big tax cuts for the middle class in 2018 (and in fact said there were valid arguments for and against them) or to the Bush tax cuts. You're really having to jump through hoops to try to show that Bush is responsible for the decline in the labor force participation rate when Obama was president. And I don't understand why you're doing that since you also said any suggestion that the labor force participation rate was down under Obama is B.S.

Do you not understand the definition of the word "details"?

By omitting the critical detail that the LFP was crashing down all through GW Bush's tax cuts galore presidency, which unavoidably bled into Obama's presidency along with that particular Great Repub Recession among many, that Obama's economy halted and reversed that trajectory and that already reversed trajectory is what Trump and his godawful waste of $2. 5+ Trillion TCJA met, you untruthfully "suggest" that the TCJA had something significant if at all to do with the reversal and increase in the LFP.

When it didn't.

[Elvis 2008]

I am very surprised to read this.

From what source did you get this?

I know just a little about the blending of Ethanol. Since I see the few stations that sell Ethanol, sell it at a slightly lower cost than regular gasoline, I was expecting that the opposite was true.

It was disingenuous math from oil companies prior to shale oil. When the world did not put money into drilling in the 80's and 90's, the Malthusians or peak oil nuts as I called them, declared that oil was running out. Instead of promoting better drilling techniques, AKA fracking, which happened any way, there was a thought process that we were running out of oil and had to do all we could to secure it. This was the REAL motivation for the second war against Iraq. George WB swallowed the peak oil nuts theory whole.

You may scoff arrogantly at GWB, and he deserves it. Just know that I have equal contempt for those parading around with the notion of global warming and climate change.

Much like the data that refutes the notion of climate change and global warming, any alternative to oil was dismissed with the wave of a hand. In this case, there was the notion that it required more energy to produce a barrel of ethanol than was in the barrel of ethanol itself. The oil companies, which get tax breaks themselves, tried to say ethanol production from corn was not a viable alternative to energy without government subsidies. The oil companies used math "to prove" their claim, and it was as flawed as the math climate scientists used to prove so many places would be under water today.

Truth is that fracking is a much cheaper and better way to get energy than ethanol. Fracking led to huge natural gas finds and incredibly cheap electricity production in the USA and with it, the electric car that is supposed to save the day. The reason the electric car is so stupid is the storage. Natural gas is a great store of energy and can be used to power a car and very cleanly at that. Why you need to turn natural gas into electricity and use highly toxic batteries is beyond me.

In the USA, ethanol is traded on the market like oil. Thing is that it is going to vary with corn costs. So now it is cheaper than gasoline and it does have a government subsidy helping to make it cheaper. However, with the coming fertilizer shortage, I am not sure corn is going to stay cheap for long.

FWIW, the problem with corn based ethanol is that you had to use farm lands for energy production. That was not too much of a problem 10 years ago but now with the fertilizer shortage, there likely will be a food shortage, so ethanol really, really does not make sense now.

The most intriguing alternative energy sources were biodiesel from weeds that grew wild in India and from algae that could be grown in the desert. The problems with both of these methods were the yields were all over the place. With oil and gas that can be produced so cheaply and quickly with fracking, these methods for getting fuel are likely going to be on the shelf for centuries.

[Tiny 12]

Biden stupidity at its finest. White House bragging 2 weeks ago that Biden releasing 1,000,000 barrels of a day from the USA strategic reserve in March was reducing gas prices and Biden taking credit. Today OPEC reduced production 2,000,000 barrels a day saying to Biden screw you. OPEC wants to see the USA Stategic reserve depleted to create national security issues for America. Biden begging them not to was laughed at by OPEC. Biden weakness has put the USA in an energy crises. The dumb asses will blame Putin, Trump or the Easter Bunny but the intelligent point the finger at Biden and they are correct. Yes and California will suffer more. That is why so many people are leaving California for other states.

A couple of weeks ago when oil was in the mid 80's, the Biden administration elected to extend sales from the strategic reserve through November, probably to add a little extra insurance before the election. Not the brightest move, unless perhaps you're a Democrat running in November. Like you say, the SPR was created for purpose of protecting our national security. The amount to be released in November would average 330,000 BOPD, and like you said OPEC is reducing production by a lot more.

[Tiny 12]

I'll bet money that you thought Travv's post was true. It wasn't. Like every member of. The Moron Brigade who posts on this board, he didn't list the source. His source was the "Babylon Bee" a well-known satire site. https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/4098352/posts.

You really do need to get off your "everything blue is bad" horse.

Smdh.

That's what that blue flag in the photo is, right? The Democrat flag.

I'm actually closer to the Democrat way of thinking on social issues. But I vote with my pocketbook. And believe, like the majority of Americans, that Republicans are better for the economy.

[Tiny 12]

How many refineries exist in Texas right now? The answer is 32. How many refineries exist in California right now? 15. The total refining capacity of California refineries is about 1. 7 million BPD. The Texas capacity is more than triple that at almost 6 million BPD.

There is a lot going on re: reformulated gasoline. California uses as special blend called low-RVP gasoline. It costs more to produce and therefore costs more.

That was my point in pulling the prices for gasoline in the southeastern USA, Denver and New York. The price is only a little higher in southeastern states than Texas. I tried to tell you why the price is higher in California, that is why the state is like an island unto itself when it comes to gasoline. The unique formulation requirements are big part of the reason but not all of it. Apparently I didn't do a very good job explaining as you didn't understand me.

Now, one can gripe and complain all they want, but the vast majority of Californians voted to lower their property taxes with Prop 13. The government needs to get the money somewhere.

That's the strongest argument you've made. You have to get the money somewhere, and if you put gasoline in the same category as tobacco and alcohol, then it makes sense to tax it similarly. A carbon tax that exempts exports makes a lot more sense than government mandates, for EV's or fuel economy or whatever, IMHO because you're letting the market work, instead of relying on the omniscience of government.

The drawback is that it's a regressive tax that hurts the poorest among us. Or maybe I should say the poorest who own cars. I have one friend in particular who had a tough time paying for gas to get to and from work. It blew out his budget when gasoline prices went up. Also, I don't think anything we do will make a significant difference in global warming. We account for 15% of carbon emissions, and that number's going to go down a lot. The future is in the hands of rapidly growing and industrializing countries like China, India and Indonesia, and they're still building coal fired power plants.

[Cali Guy]

Biden stupidity at its finest. White House bragging 2 weeks ago that Biden releasing 1,000,000 barrels of a day from the USA strategic reserve in March was reducing gas prices and Biden taking credit. Today OPEC reduced production 2,000,000 barrels a day saying to Biden screw you. OPEC wants to see the USA Stategic reserve depleted to create national security issues for America. Biden begging them not to was laughed at by OPEC. Biden weakness has put the USA in an energy crises. The dumb asses will blame Putin, Trump or the Easter Bunny but the intelligent point the finger at Biden and they are correct. Yes and California will suffer more. That is why so many people are leaving California for other states.

Yes stupidity and in another 250 days the Strategic Reserve will be close to depleted. Then what? Yes Biden will be begging Saudi for $150 a barrel oil.

[Elvis 2008]

Just a wild guess since I am not from USA, but isn't California probitively expensive for many people, while Texas is much cheaper cost of living? Especially for families. I speculate that it might be a more common reason that the one you put fwd for Elon Musk.

TK, they are both true. Musk moved to Austin, TX because he asked his employees where they wanted a second Tesla plant, and they all said Austin. They could not even come up with a second place. There are lakes, stunning scenery, golf courses where deer roam free, great places to eat, fellow liberals, and I talked to one Californian who moved here and she said there are not the threats of the drug doing homeless on every corner like there is in California.

Unlike its snobby brethren in Dallas and Houston, people in Austin are hippy types, the black sheep of the family. It is called the velvet rut. You go to Austin because you are burned out and stay because you are having so much fun that you cannot leave.

My ultimate Austin experience is Franklin's BBQ. The owner and his wife could be put in that 70's show and no one would blink. Their restaurant is a downtown trailer, but every day they are open, there is a line out the door and it takes hours to get food. Unlike California or New York, Texans do not do lines. You have one popular place you build 10 more but not Franklin's. There is just one.

There are great, great BBQ joints in Austin where you do not have to wait, but I have waited in this line, and you make friends. You talk about if you are stupid for waiting in line this long. You drink the local craft beers. You buy them for your new friends, make stupid toasts, and pretty soon the line no longer is a burden but a line of friends you love being with. That is classic Austin, friendly people who do not shy from admitting they are different and waiting three hours for BBQ is different. It is weird, and that is the slogan of the city, Keep Austin weird. It is the perfect slogan for this city. It really is.

So you get your meat. Plastic tray. Wax paper. Gourmet setting this is not. And then you take a bite of the brisket, and I will leave it to deceased international food critic Anthony Bourdain to take it from here. "How is it possible that this brisket is so good?" How do you take crummy brisket meat and make it more tasty than the most expensive filet mignon? The brisket is not just good. It is life affirming, proof that there is always something better to find and try.

But without the ranchers who tend to the beef, the Bible lovers who get the trains to run on time, the blue collar conservative oil workers who give the state its energy, the gun loving hunters, and the straight laced businessman, there would be no weird. The problem with California is the whole state is weird whereas in Texas we just have this one part, and that is why it works. You have a place with a nice climate, great food, friendly people, no state income taxes, and a city that although strangled by traffic is one that works.

Austin is what California should be.

[Tiny 12]

Just a wild guess since I am not from USA, but isn't California probitively expensive for many people, while Texas is much cheaper cost of living? Especially for families. I speculate that it might be a more common reason that the one you put fwd for Elon Musk.

Well, yes, we know the price of gasoline is higher in California.

This is a wild guess for me too, as I don't live in California. But judging from the following, you appear to be right, and the two biggest culprits would be high taxes and the high cost of buying or renting housing:

https://kmph.com/news/local/people-a...t-record-rates

It sounds like California just isn't affordable for the Workingman and retirees.

Just speculating, but I bet headaches and costs associated with permitting and rezoning are the main reasons the housing shortage exists in the Peoples Republic of California. Probably California Democratic politicians would instead blame that on limited land, and "everyone wants to live in California. " The part about limited land is true. Because if the governments won't grant permits or rezone, there's limited land to build housing on. And rent seekers like one of our posters here can clean up. And, sincerely, kudos to him for that. I wish I owned some prime California rental property I picked up many years ago.

[JustTK]

Hmmm, I wonder why a net 261,902 people left California in the year ended June 30, 2021, while 310,288 moved to Texas. Texas is hot as hell in summer, cold in winter, doesn't have many mountains, has crappy beaches, and doesn't have a fraction of the things to do that California has. Well, the 13.3% state income tax rate probably had something to do with Elon Musk moving.

Just a wild guess since I am not from USA, but isn't California probitively expensive for many people, while Texas is much cheaper cost of living? Especially for families. I speculate that it might be a more common reason that the one you put fwd for Elon Musk.

[ScatManDoo]

Ethanol is another false savior. It takes more than a gallon of gas to make a gallon of pure ethanol.,.

I am very surprised to read this.

From what source did you get this?

I know just a little about the blending of Ethanol. Since I see the few stations that sell Ethanol, sell it at a slightly lower cost than regular gasoline, I was expecting that the opposite was true.

[JustTK]

"When a nation stays neutral, it's a sovereign country with free will, but when it joins a bloc like NATO, it becomes an army base of an over-ambitious superpower that wants to control world order. ".

"I hate war. Everything is bad about war. Pain, wounds, death, loss, tears and cruel memories for all life. But, once somebody told me, when everything is going negative, try to find out something positive there and this is life. Nowadays, everything is going badly in this world, but maybe after the Ukraine and Russia conflict one thing has been settled down. Maybe now no country will give their soil to illegitimate partners to use for terror against neighbouring countries. " - Mohammed Zaki Ansari, "Zaki's Gift Of Love".

[PVMonger]

That doesn't really explain it. Looking at unleaded regular in the year to date 2022, the PADD 1 C states, being states from Florida north to Virginia, the premium is 4% to Texas. For New York it's 14%. And for Denver it's 7%. Numbers again were downloaded from Bloomberg.

Reformulated gasoline to control smog is required in Houston and New York City, and I don't believe the cost is substantially higher than the respective statewide averages. Which again aren't at huge premiums to the price in Texas.

A quick glance at requirements for California gasoline makes me think the state is micromanaging formulations, without giving appropriate consideration to costs and benefits. That is, without allowing the refineries to use cheaper methods to produce similar results. But I don't know enough about refining to really know.

I don't view the issue as Republican vs. Democrat. Colorado and New York are blue and their prices aren't that out of whack with the rest of the country. I view it as a California issue. California is kind of like a "gasoline island", in that it doesn't have the oil and product pipelines (gasoline pipelines) that crisscross most of the rest of the USA. The reason was because California had lots of oil production and refinery capacity, so no need to interconnect. A person could make the same arguments about California and gasoline as you made about Texas and electricity, the big difference being that California is no longer a power house in terms of oil and gasoline production. And, in terms of power and fuel, Texas still is. California is exacerbating the problem, for people who spend a large % of their disposable income on gasoline, with high taxes and fees, by discouraging oil production, and, I think, by micromanaging gasoline formulations.

As to the refineries, I note that ten with capacity of 205,750 barrels per day were permanently shut down in Texas between 1990 and 2021, while fourteen with capacity of 998,050 barrels per day were shut in California. I'm using "total downstream charge capacity."

https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/refinerycapacity/table13.pdf

How many refineries exist in Texas right now? The answer is 32. How many refineries exist in California right now? 15. The total refining capacity of California refineries is about 1. 7 million BPD. The Texas capacity is more than triple that at almost 6 million BPD.

There is a lot going on re: reformulated gasoline. California uses as special blend called low-RVP gasoline. It costs more to produce and therefore costs more. But California does add a lot of excise tax to gasoline so it does cost more. Now, one can gripe and complain all they want, but the vast majority of Californians voted to lower their property taxes with Prop 13. The government needs to get the money somewhere.

[Canada]

Not great if you live on California but I have been advising all my clients to be buying oil and gas stocks the last few months and it is working for them. Oil stocks are the only stocks going up today. Biden is begging OPEC countries today to not make the cuts in oil production but they just laugh at him. OPEC knows Biden is a fool for devastating his energy program in USA and begging other countries to produce more. But the dumbest people in the USA will continue to support Biden stupidity and incompetence and just blame Trump or Putin.

Biden stupidity at its finest. White House bragging 2 weeks ago that Biden releasing 1,000,000 barrels of a day from the USA strategic reserve in March was reducing gas prices and Biden taking credit. Today OPEC reduced production 2,000,000 barrels a day saying to Biden screw you. OPEC wants to see the USA Stategic reserve depleted to create national security issues for America. Biden begging them not to was laughed at by OPEC. Biden weakness has put the USA in an energy crises. The dumb asses will blame Putin, Trump or the Easter Bunny but the intelligent point the finger at Biden and they are correct. Yes and California will suffer more. That is why so many people are leaving California for other states.