American Politics

[Travv]

Gazette Times .

05 03 2021.

Jim Redden.

"Former Oregon House Speaker and current Clackamas Community College board member Dave Hunt (Democrat) was cited by Portland police in an undercover sex traffic sting operation in April.

Contacted by the Portland Tribune on Monday, Hunt said, "I don't think I should talk about that."

Clackamas Community College announced several hours later that Hunt was taking a leave from the board.

As a legislator, Hunt was one of numerous sponsors of a bill criminalizing sex trafficking in 2007. In 2011, he also voted for HB 2714, the bill that created the crime of commercial sexual solicitation, the crime for which he was arrested and cited.

The Portland Police Bureau issued a press release on Saturday saying its Human Trafficking Unit had cited eight men in an operation conducted in April. Officers posted online decoy ads on known human trafficking websites, and the subjects who "contacted undercover police officers to arrange payment for sexual acts" were criminally cited on the charge of commercial sexual solicitation.

The release did not name those cited, but said the list was available on request. The Portland Tribune requested the list and received it Monday morning, May 3. It included "53-year-old David Hunt of Milwaukie."

Comments: he sponsors and votes a bill to punish men who hire prostitutes, and he gets caught breaking the law that he sponsored. Sadly ironic. . . And typical of American politicians. . . Hoist by his own petard.

[GDreams]

This was one case by a rogue police officer. Police officers are trained to react to the situation. In most cases blacks were shot for resisting arrest and had a weapon. An officer is trained to stop that criminal before he gets harmed or anyone else gets harmed. Where is your outrage when a black police officer shoots a white criminal who resists arrest? Where is your outrage for all the blacks killing blacks and killing black innocent children in all the democratic cities like Chicago. Don't those Black Lives Matter. Are the only Black lives that matter have to be criminals breaking the law and getting shot by white police. Is that what you are saying.

Once again you deflect. Blacks killing blacks is not about racism apart from people like yourself arguing against policies that would address the problem. Why is it that most mass shootings are carried out by whites? Why is this an epidemic almost exclusively American? Why is the US subject to so many more civilian gun deaths than any other country?

If you don't believe in that there is extensive racism then you are the most deluded person on the planet. I am racist though I try to suppress it in my daily life. I'm sure blacks are racist against whites and Asians. I'm sure Asians are racist. It's an inbuilt tribal behaviour to distrust those who are different. It is how we behave towards one another that dictates whether it becomes a systematic problem. Your denial and deflection is just a hindrance to achieving a more harmonious society.

[Paulie97]

And this means that every other black person pulled over by the police and were shot or killed or treaty unfairly/unjustly or illegally targeted were wrong because it did not happen to you?

That one BTW is it's own fallacy in and of itself. On the internet it's right up there with the straw man and proof by repetition (ad nauseam) in popularity.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

[Mursenary]

I am not affiliated with any political party. I vote for the candidate that will represent my interest of the day the best. That being said, being a Black man, liberal outlets keep telling me I am going to get killed by the police and all this stuff about there being systemic racism. I don't remember Fox stimulating any of this fear.

It's great that you know how to behave in order to stay safe. Whether through good parents or other influences such as community role models or your military service, you learned how to mesh well into mainstream society's behavioral expectations.

I agree with your many of your points. And to some other's point, I hate the use of the term "systemic" racism because, even though I believe that racism is a hurdle for many people, I don't believe much of it is systemic but rather cultural.

But there lies the problem with your perspective. Being born into lower economic tiers and perceived racial tiers poses its challenges. The average white or Asian person in the US is generally born into a better economic and educational situation than the average black or brown kid. Without the financial cushion or cultural influences where certain standards of education or conduct molds a person's behaviors and character, it's harder for the average black kid to assimilate to the mainstream culture. Lack of role model is the superficial and simplistic reasoning I guess.

When black or brown kids develop the mannerisms and thought processes that surround them at an early age, naturally, that will pose challenges in the Anglo-culture adult world. I know I grew up in a rough neighborhood with a brash culture. As a result, many times in everyday life, people think that I am angry when I am only speaking passionately. You are often the product of your surroundings. I see the same trend in many black kids. To many, they are acting according to the way they were raised. They don't see their behavior as uncivil, wrong, or that it may cause discomfort in others.

But put that comfort with the expression of primal emotion and the lack of material resources alongside the differing expression of mainstream Anglo society, and you have friction and misunderstanding often due to differences in communication or behavioral norms. Take that stereotypical poor black kid culture in certain Latin or Souteast Asian societies and maybe situations would not escalate to physical altercations with law enforcement.

I say these things not to excuse certain outcomes; we are all in the end ultimately responsible for growth and adaptation. Rather, I am recognizing that some groups have obstacles that hinder their growth. Understanding the source of the problem may lead to better outcomes.

The alternative explanation is to say that black kids are born innately bad or inferior. Who here believes that and are willing to say it out loud?

[Run Mann]

This unsubstantiated allegation that the jury made their decision based on external pressure rather than the evidence is the product of guys like Tucker Carlson and his sheep. The truth though is that the former is intelligent enough to know better, but needs to come up with provocative material for every show to keep up the ratings and line his pockets. The dumb sheep that think they are accessing a "fair and balanced" news source don't know better unfortunately.

Some people still belive Fox is real news but take it from Fox themselves they are not. At least Tucker Carlson is not. FOX and Carlson were sued for slander and Fox defense of Carlson was to argue:

That no 'reasonable viewer' takes Tucker Carlson seriously. You Literally Can't Believe The Facts Tucker Carlson Tells You. The judge in the case ruled that "The "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that Carlson is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary. ' ".

US District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil agreed with Fox's premise, adding that the network "persuasively argues" that "given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive (s) with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statements he makes. " This 'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that he is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary, the ruling said.

Incredelous right but hopefully now some of you loyal Fox viewers who rely on Carlson to inform you, now know that he is not engaging in facts. Shocker, LOL! Question is, why would a "news" organzation showcase a fraud in their primetime slot every week night?

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-...carlson-2020-9

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/91774...ay-fox-s-lawye

[Golfinho]

I did not say he deserved anything. I am saying that when you are belligerent and don't follow lawful instruction, then you get what you get. Sometimes keeping it real goes wrong.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that it's by their behavior that consequences come to them? If a black man tells me he has suffered racism, I have no reason to doubt him. Just like I wouldn't doubt an Asian, a Hispanic, a catholic, a homosexual, a fat person, an ethnic of any kind, or anyone who says they experienced ill-treatment. But this blaming other people for problems that you created yourself has gone too far.

[Canada]

That's exactly what you stated before and what you're stating now. Even if he did not follow instructions, he should not have been killed by a police officer who is trained to served and protect. As to the jury, there you go spouting off again with no proof. Those people have brains, they saw a police with his knees on a man's neck for nine minutes, they had doctors telling them that the man died because the police had his knee on the man's neck so he expired. They heard another police tell the convicted police that he could not feel a pulse on the man but the convicted police kept his knees on the man's neck anyway. They heard the man pleeding for his life. They had the chief of police come in and tell them that what the police did was a violation of their policy and was not allowed. How much more deliberation than let's say five minutes do they need? The OJ jury came back fast too, they made the right decision but we all know they got it wrong because of what they were given.

This was one case by a rogue police officer. Police officers are trained to react to the situation. In most cases blacks were shot for resisting arrest and had a weapon. An officer is trained to stop that criminal before he gets harmed or anyone else gets harmed. Where is your outrage when a black police officer shoots a white criminal who resists arrest? Where is your outrage for all the blacks killing blacks and killing black innocent children in all the democratic cities like Chicago. Don't those Black Lives Matter. Are the only Black lives that matter have to be criminals breaking the law and getting shot by white police. Is that what you are saying.

[Paulie97]

As to the jury, there you go spouting off again with no proof. Those people have brains, they saw a police with his knees on a man's neck for nine minutes, they had doctors telling them that the man died because the police had his knee on the man's neck so he expired. They heard another police tell the convicted police that he could not feel a pulse on the man but the convicted police kept his knees on the man's neck anyway. They heard the man pleeding for his life. They had the chief of police come in and tell them that what the police did was a violation of their policy and was not allowed.

There was plenty of solid evidence for a conscientious jury to hang their hats on. They did their duty. Also credit to the young lady at the curb, cell phone in hand who shot the video, without which Chauvin might still be a police officer. This unsubstantiated allegation that the jury made their decision based on external pressure rather than the evidence is the product of guys like Tucker Carlson and his sheep. The truth though is that the former is intelligent enough to know better, but needs to come up with provocative material for every show to keep up the ratings and line his pockets. The dumb sheep that think they are accessing a "fair and balanced" news source don't know better unfortunately.

[Run Mann]

I did not say he deserved anything. I am saying that when you are belligerent and don't follow lawful instruction, then you get what you get. Sometimes keeping it real goes wrong.

As far as the jury, many people say they had no choice given the climate of canceling and doxing. If they had decided any other way, their lives may have been in danger. I was the jury foreman on a meth trafficking case 2 years ago this month. We deliberated for 3 days. There is no way a fair and impartial jury is going to only deliberate 10 hours on a murder case. Those people knew what they had to do.

That's exactly what you stated before and what you're stating now. Even if he did not follow instructions, he should not have been killed by a police officer who is trained to served and protect. As to the jury, there you go spouting off again with no proof. Those people have brains, they saw a police with his knees on a man's neck for nine minutes, they had doctors telling them that the man died because the police had his knee on the man's neck so he expired. They heard another police tell the convicted police that he could not feel a pulse on the man but the convicted police kept his knees on the man's neck anyway. They heard the man pleeding for his life. They had the chief of police come in and tell them that what the police did was a violation of their policy and was not allowed. How much more deliberation than let's say five minutes do they need? The OJ jury came back fast too, they made the right decision but we all know they got it wrong because of what they were given.

[Spidy]

And this means that every other black person pulled over by the police and were shot or killed or treaty unfairly/unjustly or illegally targeted were wrong because it did not happen to you? What if in those cases the citizens are stating that they were not wrong, should they not call out the police if they believe the police were wrong? What if they conducted themselves the same way you did but the police that pulled them over was having a bad day, a bigot or simply a prick? Your life experiences are your own, it is anecdotal and to imply that because something did not happen to you people of your race are somehow responsible for the outcome in police interaction is spurious logic. I have never been scammed in my life, but I won't dismiss other people's claim of being scammed because it hasn't happened to me. I have never been sexually harassed in the workplace but will not dismiss another man's claim that he was because it did not happen to me. Even the police chiefs and police departments around the country are now acknowledging that their police department needs retraining as it relates to their interaction with the public. It is not a one-way street, and the police are not to be blamed in all these cases, but neither are the citizen. There are countless cases of police officers being terminated for cause and cities paying huge sums to citizens and in some cases their survivors because of the way the citizens were illegally/unfairly and unjustly treated by the police.

You used the straw man argument that maybe no blacks, gay, or women were interested in or qualified for the positions. You cited no examples of this, you are simply making a supposition to make a point and improperly applying it to society, it is ridiculous in every sense of the word to believe that in an integrated and educated society there would be widespread occurrence of this ever occurring in any field. Unless someone is applying to be the head server for a pack of lions and hyenas in the Serengeti at feeding time or the clean-up cuckold in some cheap porn, hiring data tells us that more than one group of people would be interested in or qualified for most positions fields anywhere.

Heed your own advice and get off CNN, FOX or any other alleged news outlet and research for yourself. White males are over-represented in most high paying, white collar, executive, senior government position, the military, the courts, law makers, attorneys or most other high paying similar fields. The data from several verifiable sources shows this to be true. 30 to 35 percent of the population in the USA are white males but White males are overrepresented in most fields/occupations. In some fields, white males make up 70 percent and more in certain leadership/executive positions. Charles Brown is the first general to lead one of the military services as the chief of staff, (General officer in charge of the Air Force). The U.S Army has never had a black, Hispanic or woman Chief of Staff. Could it be that using your supposition that the only qualified people were white males or that no one else had any interest in that position?

Lloyd Austin is the first Black Secretary of Defense of the USA. Do you think that there has never been any other minority qualified for or interested in that position until now? Austin did a "60 minutes" interview recently where he addressed racism and it effects. He was asked about the absence of black generals on the Joint Chiefs staff, he promised that under his watch, he would address that issue as he would be the one making the recommendation for staffing to the president. See how he answered that question. Take a look at it and get another perspective, you may be surprised. Because Austin made it to that position does not negate the fact that systemic racism exists, on the contrary, it shows us that it does because of the amount of time it took for a qualified and interested minority to attain that position.

Your example of "how a person made it if systemic racism exists" is off the charts illogical. That person made it despite systemic racism, but what the numbers demonstrate is that in a society where a group of people who comprises 12 to 15 percent of the population; they should be represented more than the 1 to 2 percent they are in many management/senior/white collar/executive positions. Look at the Federal judges today and you will see they are mostly white males; would you conclude that the reasoning for this is that they are the most qualified or they are in a select network and a select group of people selects them for those position?

Not one Asian and only two blacks have ever served on the Supreme Court. Is it that because the only qualified people are the ones who are on the court or the ones who served? Why have no blacks, Asians or Hispanic ever served as FBI Director? Is it because only white males are desirous of that job or only white males were always the best qualified? Look at the make-up of jobs on Wall Street or corporate America, the people in the media, especially on TV. Why are minority representation so low? The evidence shows that it is not from a lack of qualifcation and interest but a lack of opportunity. For the first time in its history, a woman will lead U.S Citizenship and Immigration services. Is it because she is the first qualified woman? There are so many more examples. The point is that is that no reasonable person would conclude that on a widespread basis the absent of minorities in positions/fields is a result of their lack of qualification or lack of interest or that the other person was always more qualified than they were. Their non-selection is in many instances are attributed to the people with the power to make such selection not selecting them despite their superior qualifications and interest.

A recent study showed that there are only 4 black CEOs of fortune 500 companies, lack of interest or are they not qualified for those positions? Systemic racism exists whether you see it or not and not and your personal experience are not representative of society at large. The data and the numbers are much more representative than your individual situation because those numbers are inclusive of everyone, ergo it becomes empirical data while your situation is about you, remember the YMMV abbreviation? Every occurrence is not because of racism, sometimes the minority candidate is not the right fit or is not qualified. Which is why it starts with education and opportunity for the people who want it so that the proverbial playing field can be leveled. However, to summarily dismiss systemic racism because it has not happened to you or a couple of minority made it shows how out of your depth you are on this topic. If the situation was reversed and say Asians were the majority and held most of the high paying position and were given the same majority of the opportunities as whites are today you would hear the same systemic racism argument from whites which would be right.

Spot On! Very nice counterpoints.

[Spidy]

I am not affiliated with any political party. I vote for the candidate that will represent my interest of the day the best. That being said, being a Black man, liberal outlets keep telling me I am going to get killed by the police and all this stuff about there being systemic racism. I don't remember Fox stimulating any of this fear...

Congratulations! Bully for you, that you were able to rise from difficult and humble beginnings.

Just like white folk, black folk are not a monolith. Our individual experiences are our own.

MLK, Malcolm X, Oprah Winfrey, among countless, others, also rose from difficult and humbling beginnings. That said, it doesn't stop them from fighting for others citizens Civil Rights, Equal Rights, Women's rights, Children Rights, Humanitarian Rights, Voting rights...etc. Whereby countless of future generations of US citizens (from all backgrounds) benefit from their activism.

Your absolutely right, "Foxy News", says some crazy shit. If you don't think there coverage of the news is racist at times, that your prerogative. I think they are racist as hell in their right-wing, white supremacy and white privilege coverage or non-coverage of the news.

On the long road to justice and equal rights for all, actions will always speak louder than words and one man's opinions (yours, Canada's or mine) spouting their "bias or non-bias" opinions on a monger site, is hardly going to "carry the day" and in the end, don't amount much to "a hill of beans".

[Mr Enternational]

Yeah, Floyd deserved that knee on his neck, thanfully the jury did not share your view.

I did not say he deserved anything. I am saying that when you are belligerent and don't follow lawful instruction, then you get what you get. Sometimes keeping it real goes wrong.

As far as the jury, many people say they had no choice given the climate of canceling and doxing. If they had decided any other way, their lives may have been in danger. I was the jury foreman on a meth trafficking case 2 years ago this month. We deliberated for 3 days. There is no way a fair and impartial jury is going to only deliberate 10 hours on a murder case. Those people knew what they had to do.

[Run Mann]

More fallacious black and white thinking and a cop out. So since evil will always exist then let's stop confronting it? Education would be pointless as no one ever changes. Jim Crow would still be firmly implanted. Women wouldn't have the right to vote or opportunities to excel in careers in great numbers. We'd likely be speaking another language now as there would have been no point in fighting back in the world wars. The list goes on.

Stick with the brothel talk Bro.

Excellent, you hit the nail on the head here.

[Run Mann]

Very true. Unfortunately, your writing and logic are falling on deaf ears. The people who should hear this message won't because in their world, anybody that doesn't think the way they do is either a socialist or a communist.

Thanks but I could never have a discussion with that poster, he is just not worth it but the good news is he is not even a voter so he is irrelevant to me.

[Run Mann]

I was a Navy officer. Most of my friends retired with 20+ years and as O5. The few that are still in are O6 now with 26 years. I know of 1 Black guy that has stayed in long enough to be a flag officer, which is O7. I think he just got it last year or the year before and he graduated 10 years before us. The Chief of Naval Operations has the rank of O10 and has been in the Navy for 36 years. Only 32 people in history has held this position.

.

If you were a Navy officer then you would know that the services release a selection list that shows detailed data of who was selected and who was not. There is no need to go back to the strawman argument because everyone interested in the promotion list knows who was selected and who was not and who was in the zone of consideration. The data is released for the entire service, not just the people you know. the discussion. Selecting someone for a position is not based soley on GPA, there are a number of factors that have to be taken into consideration. This discussion is about whether or not systemic racism exist in the USA. I provided several examples detailing why it does. In your America, if you truly believe it does not after what I provided so be it. The data is not only about you and not only about one or two years, it is a calcluation of years which means that even if we accept the numbers in your sample, that sample would only be applicable to that year or years you are refering. Learned and experienced black people like Colin Powell and Condi Rice sees systemic racism in America but what would they know. Your point on this issue is about as looney as your point that American's don't make laws they vote for other people to make laws, As if the people they vote for are from a foreign country.

https://www.benjerry.com/whats-new/2...racism-is-real

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-s...hs-data-2020-6#black-americans-are-underrepresented-in-high-paying-jobs-3.

https://www.politico.com/blogs/polit...-action-019573