American Politics

[Tiny 12]

Trump to leave office with the worst jobs record since Herbert Hoover

https://fortune.com/2021/01/11/us-ec...-since-hoover/

Fact check: Chart of job growth by president shows historic unemployment under Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rt/6177339002/

Trumps Final Numbers
Statistical indicators of President Trump's four years in office.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/10/trumps-final-numbers/

A sampling of the highlights:

Last Trump Job Approval 34%; Average Is Record-Low 41%

https://news.gallup.com/poll/328637/...ecord-low.aspx

I'm no fan of Trump. And I'm a huge fan of yours in the Bangkok threads. However I don't believe it makes sense to judge the record of his administration based on the numbers when he left office, almost a year into COVID. The economy was doing nicely, with unemployment levels the lowest since the late 1960's, when COVID hit. And real median household income rose substantially in 2019 for the first time since the Clinton administration. In 2020 dollars, it was $63,292 during 2000, and had only risen to $63,683 during 2016, the last year of the Obama administration. The middle class was just treading water for 16 years. It rose to $69,560 during 2019.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

This is noted in your FactCheck link, that average weekly earnings were up 8. 7% during Trump's time in office, adjusted for inflation. Since Biden came into office, they've dropped 4. 2%, after inflation, because increases in the prices of goods and services are outpacing increases in wages. The unemployment level, though, is back to where it was before COVID, although a lot of people have dropped out of the workforce.

And how much of all this, good and bad, is because of Trump and Biden? Well, they didn't cause COVID, aren't dictators who control the legislative branch, and don't have much to do with the business cycle or Fed policy, let alone what's happening in places like China and the Ukraine. So maybe not a lot. But I believe some of the legislation they supported and their executive orders had an effect. I'd give the edge to Trump and the Republicans on that. The corporate tax cuts and deregulation helped the economy and increased the demand for labor. And the poorly timed American Rescue Plan provided too much stimulus and added to inflation, just as post-COVID demand was increasing and supply chain glitches were surfacing.

[Spidy]

One more thing on being bored with the postings from the "Dems" BMs, if you are indeed a true "bothsidesist", "neithersideist", "fence walker" or whatever you're calling yourself, it may behoove you ...

I am not calling myself any of these terms. These are all silly terms that you folks have made up so that you have a label to attack...

Really us folks?

I imagine at some point, it all just becomes a blur, as to what's real, what is truth or NOT? So allow me to refresh.

LOOK HERE:

I have no idea what MDS writes. Its like trying to decipher The Riddler. He doesn't seem tloo be able to put a single coherent sentence together.

You have taken that upon urself by supporting the status quo. "I can't support change, bcos it will never happen" BS.

Bothsiderism. No, I am Neithersiderism.

AND HERE:

As he said its not bothsiderism, its neithersideism ...

To his credit, even MDS1 (in one his more "coherent" posts), pointed out the fact that you called yourself, a person of "neithersideism".

I am not calling myself any of these terms...

Really? From your own posts, that's not true, now is it.

So is it lying? Is it denial? Slip of the tongue? Simple case of forgetfulness or perhaps something in-between, on both sides or is it neither?

So which is it?

[PVMonger]

Actually, two economists, Gabriel Zucman and Emmanuel Saez, who advise Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, came up with a way to get it done. It would involve a tax on employers that pay less than some arbitrary amount, say $15 per hour, combined with a tax refund to employees who are paid less than that amount. The effect would be to make the minimum wage $15 for this example. This could get by with 51 votes, a simple majority, if attached to a reconciliation bill.

The last time this was voted on, 8 Democratic Senators voted not to raise the minimum wage. Remember Kyrsten Sinema's infamous "thumbs down. ".

I believe this is something that should be decided at the state and local level. Federal politicians have no business meddling in it. What makes sense for New York City and Seattle, $25 per hour or whatever, would put people out of work in Mississippi.

So the only way to do this without the filibuster would be to raise taxes. What have you been smoking to think that the QOP would go along with that?

FYI, the lowest livable wage state in the USA is Tennessee where $14.38 per hour is considered a "living wage". Somehow, though, the QOP that runs TN would rather keep the minimum wage at $7.25 'cause, you know.

[PVMonger]

It might be difficult to understand to a USAn that suffers from underfunded state education. That's fine. I will go easy on you.

The filibuster. Right, so this is an EXPLANATION, a reason why the Dems have got nothing useful done. So your agreeing with me that the Dems have got nothing useful done. So we agree now that they have an appalling track record, especially in modern history? So why does ET bang on in every comment he makes about how superb have been the Dem acheivements?

Well, who knows, at least you and I agree now that the Dems have done nothing useful since 1975.

You are the one who said that the Democrats have gotten nothing done since the mid-1970's. I said nothing of the kind. I said that Democrats do share some of the blame.

I am truly sorry that you don't understand how the USA government works but I didn't expect you to. I don't know whether it is your lack of education or whether it is a refusal to do a simple internet search to learn something new. I realize that you feel that all that's necessary is to snap your fingers to make something happen. Donnie the Dumbass thinks that way too.

But the filibuster is a way of life in USA government. Nobody likes it except whomever is in the minority and the Re[pubs have been in the majority a lot. The filibuster has been the reason the QOP has been so successful in the past 60-some-odd years. All they need to do is vote no in the Senate and all useful work stops. Then they can lie and say how the Dems haven't gotten anything done. Case in point is President Biden's infrastructure plan. Lots of the QOP voted against it and they are now touting to the brain-dead people who voted for them how much money they're bringing back home. And their constituents are simply too stupid to know any better.

[Tiny 12]

Therefore, for the Democrats to pass any type of minimum wage increase, they would need (assuming no Re help) a filibuster-proof majority. Something they last had in 1975.

Actually, two economists, Gabriel Zucman and Emmanuel Saez, who advise Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, came up with a way to get it done. It would involve a tax on employers that pay less than some arbitrary amount, say $15 per hour, combined with a tax refund to employees who are paid less than that amount. The effect would be to make the minimum wage $15 for this example. This could get by with 51 votes, a simple majority, if attached to a reconciliation bill.

The last time this was voted on, 8 Democratic Senators voted not to raise the minimum wage. Remember Kyrsten Sinema's infamous "thumbs down. ".

I believe this is something that should be decided at the state and local level. Federal politicians have no business meddling in it. What makes sense for New York City and Seattle, $25 per hour or whatever, would put people out of work in Mississippi.

[Elvis 2008]

It might be difficult to understand to a USAn that suffers from underfunded state education. That's fine. I will go easy on you.

The filibuster. Right, so this is an explanation, a reason why the Dems have got nothing useful done. So your agreeing with me that the Dems have got nothing useful done. So we agree now that they have an appalling track record, especially in modern history? So why does ET bang on in every comment he makes about how superb have been the Dem acheivements?

Well, who knows, at least you and I agree now that the Dems have done nothing useful since 1975.

LOL. Good one JustTK. You said it best when you said you are arguing with people who are like Evangelicals. That is what these people are. Their version of science is not data based but faith based.

I doubt you will get an answer, but if you do, somehow the Dems not getting anything done since 1975 was Trump's fault.

I still did not know when I hired people I looked up and saw who was president and said, "Oh wait, a Republicans is in office. Better not hire someone yet. " but apparently that is how things really work.

[EihTooms]

No wiggling necessary from me. I am still here waiting for you to address the subject I raised, which is the national / federal minum wage. All the wiggling and squirming is clearly being done by yoy since you try to change the subject with every post.

What are you talking about? Do you even know? I provided substantiation that replied to your inaccurate pro Repub "Bothsiderism" contention and destroyed it from the very beginning.

Dems ARE and HAVE BEEN raising the minimum wage, the "real" one, the "nominal" one, both of them all along for years. Even the "blahblah" one you no doubt will conjure up next in order to justify suckers voting for your beloved Repubs so they can continue their mission to wipe out millions of USA jobs whenever they can.

The Dems do it where they can do it. Where they can override persistent Repub objections to it. Therefore, they do it at the state and local level rather than in the Senate where outright Repubs and wiggly, squirmy, stealth "Bothsider" Repubs like you have foolishly been given too many seats to get it done there.

As you see in the link that I provided twice already the Dems have done it in California, New York, Massachusetts, the District of Columbia and elsewhere, places that damn near represent half of the working population of America anyway. Certainly some of the only states that matter to the national economy; Blue states where human beings far outnumber rattle snakes and tumble weeds and where there are more skyscrapers and office buildings than outhouses, unlike most Red states.

If the "Real" minimum wage had not been raised so effectively by Dems around the country over the objections of Repubs, Trump could not have cited it in the data when he lied to his sucker followers about it having a damn thing to do with his otherwise crap economy. And Repubs would have no basis to whine and complain that there is "too much money" flooding the roaring Biden economy during his historic recovery from the latest (say it with me now) Great Repub Recession and Massive Job Destruction.

[ScatManDoo]

No wiggling necessary from me. I am still here waiting for you to address the subject I raised, which is the national / federal minum wage. All the wiggling and squirming is clearly being done by yoy since you try to change the subject with every post.

Raising the minimum wage has been desired by most or all democrats. Raising the minimum wage is opposed by nearly all republicans.

JustTK: Why do you hold Democrats responsible for the minimum wage falling in purchasing value?

[JustTK]

The key issue here, .. called the filibuster.
Something they last had in 1975.

I realize that this is a difficult concept top understand...

It might be difficult to understand to a USAn that suffers from underfunded state education. That's fine. I will go easy on you.

The filibuster. Right, so this is an EXPLANATION, a reason why the Dems have got nothing useful done. So your agreeing with me that the Dems have got nothing useful done. So we agree now that they have an appalling track record, especially in modern history? So why does ET bang on in every comment he makes about how superb have been the Dem acheivements?

Well, who knows, at least you and I agree now that the Dems have done nothing useful since 1975.

[JustTK]

Now, let's see you wiggle, squirm and pretzel twist out a pro Repub "Bothsider" case for $15 - $18 being less than $12.04.

No wiggling necessary from me. I am still here waiting for you to address the subject I raised, which is the national / federal minum wage. All the wiggling and squirming is clearly being done by yoy since you try to change the subject with every post.

[ScatManDoo]

[Deleted by Admin]

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[MarquisdeSade1]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/...ship-campaign/

[PVMonger]

I agree that minimum wage should be on productivity and it is in most republican states. If it were on productivity everywhere republican workers will be making $25 per hour and democrats $5 or less. You are right dead beat lazy democrats should be paid on productivity and many states do pay them that way.

Sure thing. Now provide proof of your fantasy.

I'll wait.

Oh, and please tell me why Re-run states have for years taken more in Federal money than they've paid to the Feds. After all, of all of those Re- run states were so productive, they should be giving more to the Feds than they get back.

[PVMonger]

It wasn't meant to, was it?

You said smthg was not possible based on me using the word "reverse". I showed you how it ws. My example was effectivlety what has happened, regardless of my lack of intention to make it so. Your rebuttal was against federal wage changes. My original question and explanation wwas about real wage changes / different beast.

I have resisted trying to explain to someone who doesn't live in the US about how the Federal legislative system works. But since you seem hell-bent on trying to "prove" that Dems are even dumber than Re, here is some food for thought.

In the US, the Senate must pass legislation in order for it to be approved. The general procedure is that the House of Representatives passes a "bill" and then the Senate makes changes (or not), the bill is "negotiated" between the two houses and then the bill is either passed or not by the Senate.

The key issue here, and one that almost nobody understands, is that for the Senate to "pass" anything (with a few exceptions like a budget or judgeships or a few very other very narrow exceptions) requires 60 (now, but prior to 1975, 66) votes. That's called the filibuster.

Therefore, for the Democrats to pass any type of minimum wage increase, they would need (assuming no Re help) a filibuster-proof majority. Something they last had in 1975.

I realize that this is a difficult concept top understand but that's the way the process works. If a sufficient number of Re want to block something in the Senate, Democrats still need to get (at present) 12 Re/ Independent Senators (there are 48 Democrats in the Senate, 2 Independents and 50 Re) to vote for it (assuming, of course, that all Democrats are "for" the bill).

When one political party says, in essence, "we don't give a shit what it is, we're voting against it even if our constituents want it", it is virtually impossible to get anything done.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...what-they-can/ https://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...in-the-senate/.

[EihTooms]

Raised the minimum wage, but the real minimum wage has is now lower than 60 years ago. I never said they hadn't increased the min wage. I am referring to REAL min wage. The link I gave you in my original post was quite clear what I was talking about. You even referred to it and acknowledged it yourself. You're the one that is trying to shoft the goal posts again and discuss smthg else so you can avoid the issue at hand.

Play all the pro Repub "Bothsider" word games you want, it won't change that fact that you are wrong about Dems re the minimum wage:

U.S. minimum wage: real and nominal value 1938-2022

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nimum-wage-us/

When adjusted for inflation, the 2022 federal minimum wage in the United States is around 40 percent lower than the minimum wage in 1970. Although the real dollar minimum wage in 1970 was only 1.60 U.S. dollars, when expressed in nominal 2022 dollars this increases to 12.04 U.S. dollars. A large difference from the federal minimum wage in 2022 of 7.25 U.S. dollars.

Blue State Minimum Wages Inch Upward, Widening Gap With South
May 24, 2022

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-...gap-with-south

As California, D.C. top $15, Hawaii bill sets $18 floor.

20 states hold steady at federal rate of $7.25.

A grocery store cashier whos guaranteed $15 per hour in California can legally be paid $7.25 in Texas and 19 other statesa gap in state minimum wages thats set to widen further in the year ahead.
...
California, the District of Columbia, and much of New York already require wages of $15 per hour or more. Massachusetts, and likely Washington state, will join them in 2023. And California Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) announced earlier this month that his states minimum wage is expected to rise to $15.50 next January, as an inflation-based adjustment.

Now, let's see you wiggle, squirm and pretzel twist out a pro Repub "Bothsider" case for $15 - $18 being less than $12.04.