American Politics

[PVMonger]

You evidently fail to realize that not everyone who chooses to not take an unproven vaccine is a 'MAGA'.

Meanwhile, with gay genes on your mind, maybe the MAGA people will have a vaccination to cure you. (You can decide if that's sarcasm.)

"not everyone who chooses to not take an unproven vaccine is a 'MAGA". Maybe, however: "The vaccination rate among White evangelical Protestants continues to lag behind those of other major religious groups: 57% of White evangelicals say they have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, compared with 73% of White Protestants who are not evangelicals, 75% of religiously unaffiliated adults and 82% of Catholics," reported Pew. And show me a white evangelical who isn't a MAGAt. https://www.au.org/blogs/christian-n...b9FDtZcWY0eCTw.

I guess it really is true that scientists hid the "genius gene" in the vaccine, considering how many of the unvaccinated aren't.

[Golfinho]

More than a billion doses of mRNA Covid vaccines have been administered. The safety and efficacy of the vaccines have been proven beyond any possibility for error. The theory and mechanism of how these vaccines work is better understood than the theory of gravitation. Simply put, the vaccines are proven to be safe and effective.

Then you've got nothing to worry about from the unvaccinated. Mind your own business and party on.

[Paulie97]

More than a billion doses of mRNA Covid vaccines have been administered. The safety and efficacy of the vaccines have been proven beyond any possibility for error. The theory and mechanism of how these vaccines work is better understood than the theory of gravitation. Simply put, the vaccines are proven to be safe and effective.

Also the vaccine is proven to reduce the odds of Covid hospitalization and death to near zero.

[John Clayton]

You evidently fail to realize that not everyone who chooses to not take an unproven vaccine...

More than a billion doses of mRNA Covid vaccines have been administered. The safety and efficacy of the vaccines have been proven beyond any possibility for error. The theory and mechanism of how these vaccines work is better understood than the theory of gravitation. Simply put, the vaccines are proven to be safe and effective.

[Golfinho]

You realize, right, that many MAGAts (like the OP) believe that the vaccine contains microchips. Many MAGAts also believe that the vaccine contains magnets.

You evidently fail to realize that not everyone who chooses to not take an unproven vaccine is a 'MAGA'.

Meanwhile, with gay genes on your mind, maybe the MAGA people will have a vaccination to cure you. (You can decide if that's sarcasm.)

[PVMonger]

As for your study in household contacts, that is one I am skeptical of and ask why you did not link it? There has to be so many variables that have to be accounted for. Among my questions is what variant was predominant during this time period. How was antibody status accounted for prior to infection?

The vaccine did seem to be effective with stopping transmission of the alpha variant, but it does not seem to work with delta, and who the hell knows how well it will work with the next one?

I am extremely skeptical when it comes to the CDC on politically charged issues. Here is what they wrote "Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time. "

You do not mandate when you have the phrase appear to. You let people make their own decisions.

The CDC is been pushing vaccination like crazy, and I do not expect them to back down from their proclamations as the vaccine loses its luster. So IMO this push for vaccination is as much the CDC not losing face as it is for preventing disease.

It is funny in that I have published on this website a regimen of antivirals and antibiotics that I have taken when I go bare. I got the response I expected from the American government loving. "You cannot do that. Antibiotics are a gift from God, and you are wasting them!" If I asked the group here, which method do you use to prevent herpes, condoms or Valtrex? I am certain that condoms would win or maybe #1 would be "Uh, What is Valtrex?

And why can you get Valtrex over the counter in Colombia and Mexico and not in the USA? My take on that is the CDC is more interested in government control than in preventing the spread of disease. The notion that you are "wasting a treatment" when it is available in other countries is batshit crazy. The CDC must think herpes cannot spread over a country's borders.

We have treatments that are 100% effective for transmissible diseases (Valtrex is not 100% effective against herpes transmission though) and we do not mandate treatment for them. The fact that you douches want to mandate for Covid is absolutely fucking insane.

Thanks, Captain Obvious. Yes, COVID is here to stay. But why? The US has had enough vaccine for the past 6 months to vaccinate every adult. But only 50-some-odd percent of the population has been vaccinated. And the anti-vaxxers, the anti-maskers, the science deniers and rightwingnut media are the biggest cause of that. That's why COVID is still killing thousands every day.

If someone doesn't want to get vaccinated, fine. But that decision is a choice and choices have consequences.

Instead of a vaccine mandate, perhaps the government should mandate that every unvaccinated person, every anti-vaxxer, every anti-masker, every science denier and all of the rightwingnut media work for 30 days in a COVID ward. Without PPE, of course, because natural COVID immunity is so much better than a vaccine and hell, COVID only has a. 02% death rate anyway. Of course, all those people will be refused medical treatment because COVID isn't that serious and not getting vaccinated was a choice and choices have consequences.

"educating yourself on what works to actually prevent getting the disease." And, what, pray tell is that? It isn't ivermectin. It isn't hydroxychloroquine. It isn't bleach martinis and it isn't shoving a lightbulb up your ass. What actually works to actually prevent COVID are the things that Republicans are against (physical or social distancing, quarantining, ventilation of indoor spaces, covering coughs and sneezes, hand washing, and keeping unwashed hands away from the face. The use of face masks or coverings has been recommended in public settings to minimize the risk of transmissions.)

[Elvis 2008]

I mean, once again, you can comment any way you want, but if you say a stupid thing that's universally known to be untrue (like, I don't know, that condoms do not protect against a VD or that Covid vaccines do not protect against the infection), you might sound like an idiot. Crackpot even.

Insisting that the vaccine doesn't prevent the transmissions AT ALL is absolute lunacy.

Xpartan,

You really, really need to know the difference between popular and correct. Is it popular to say condoms prevent STDs? Hell yeah. Is it correct? Fuck no. https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/...-glass-90-full.

Adequate data are available to conclude that consistent and correct condom use prevents unintended pregnancies, HIV infection and gonorrhea in men. Evidence that condom use prevents the other six STIs reviewed by the panel is insufficient.

Before you get your panties in a bunch about HIV, that is for homosexual / anal sex. For heterosexual and oral sex, rates of HIV transmission are so low you could never prove condoms work.

And gonorrhea can be prevented / treated with one pill.

And why haven't you heard about this huge study done by the NIH? Or are you going to lie now and say you have?

Is it popular to say the vaccine works to reduce Covid? Yes. Does it? No, not delta.

The study you linked about % effectiveness was when the alpha variant of Covid was predominant. The vaccines worked to prevent that, but it does not prevent transmission with delta.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/healt...udy/index.html

A new study shows the Delta Covid-19 variant produced similar amounts of virus in vaccinated and unvaccinated people if they get infected -- illustrating a key motivation behind the federal guidance that now recommends most fully vaccinated Americans wear masks indoors.

"High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus," Dr. Rochelle Walensky said.

The researchers found evidence that viral loads were similar among 127 fully vaccinated people and 84 others who were unvaccinated, partially vaccinated or whose vaccination status was unknown. Viral load is a proxy for how likely someone might be to transmit the virus to others.

Let me guess. You knew about this too.

That leaves this statement, "Experts say that vaccination makes it less likely that you'll catch Covid-19 in the first place."

If that were true, the UK, Israel, and USA would not have the highest cases per capita in the world. The data does not support that claim, and the notion that there are more cases in those countries because of testing is also not supported by the data.

People like you make judgments and marry them. You are unable to shift when data shows what you are married to turns out to be wrong.

[Paulie97]

Sorry to stomp on your communication stylings.

With these guys I sometimes find more success with kind, gentle discussion, like a teacher does with young students, like in my prior post here in the thread.

Sounds good, but let's be real, that's often not your style. Lolol And understandably so, as the Trump cult has made a business of being strident and hitting below the belt. It's thus fun watching them get a taste of their own medicine, especially as they fight from a defeated position.

On the medical posts, when someone comes in here pontificating on that they should more often than not include source citations, rather than rehashing what one thinks they remember reading from a wingnut blog or Tucker Carlson. That's too generous though when discussing someone like Elvis, who just makes stuff up as he goes erecting straw men and moving the goal posts. Sadly other shit kickers on his side of the fence never notice, nor do they want to.

[ScatManDoo]

No, that is precisely why it does not make sense.

The virus cannot be eradicated. We know that the vaccine does not prevent contraction or transmission. Covid is here to stay and we must learn to live with it, as we do with flu and other viruses.

If it was possible for the virus to be completely eradicated if everyone was vaccinated, there would be a stronger case for doing so. But that is not the case. The vaccine *does not* do that.

Therefore it is up to individuals to decide whether to get vaccinated. If, as you say, the vaccine prevents nearly all covid deaths, the vaccinated will be as safe as they can be, regardless of what anyone else does, given that the virus will always be with us.

If people choose not to be vaccinated, that is up to them. Their choice will *not* prevent the eradication of the virus. The vaccine does not eradicated the virus (despite the promises of Fauci and other liars who sold it to us as total prevention).

The vaccinated will already be protected as well as they can be, according to your argument, so the actions of other people who choose not to take the vax have no bearing on them.

Of course, in reality there are a vast number of negative side effects of the vax, a small number of which have been documented on the VAERS system but most of which have been ignored or swept under the carpet.

I believe your conclusion is incorrect.

If the vaccine slows the rate of infection, then it is effective and beneficial (and worthwhile).

There is no criterion that success can only be achieved by total eradication.

Less deaths and less serious disease is desirable compared to more deaths and more serious disease.

I agree that we are likely going to be living with Covid for quite a while. While that's happening I favor having less deaths with great immunization coverage rather than choosing more deaths for ourselves because some folks try to be selfish freeloaders in the name of "Freedom."

[ScatManDoo]

It seems unreasonable to you because you've missed my point.

You're absolutely correct, one doesn't need a medical degree in order to comment on anything.

But if you do comment on a highly specific medical issue, you might want to have some idea of what you're talking about.

I mean, once again, you can comment any way you want, but if you say a stupid thing that's universally known to be untrue (like, I don't know, that condoms do not protect against a VD or that Covid vaccines do not protect against the infection), you might sound like an idiot. Crackpot even.

If the aforementioned 'doctors' are fine with it, then let them have at it as our president says.

Sorry to stomp on your communication stylings.

With these guys I sometimes find more success with kind, gentle discussion, like a teacher does with young students, like in my prior post here in the thread.

I really have come to never expect any precision from folks in the anti-science party.

I always figure they lack the ability to critically think about what is presented to them.

[EihTooms]

Your regular reminder that this guy thinks Jimmy Carter was a successful president.

See, here is the problem for Repubs and those who vote in a way that helps Repubs win elections; it doesn't matter what I or anyone else "thinks" about it. The data and historical record of results tells the story.

For example, Carter's positive record of results on USA Jobs creation slaughters that of every Repub in history. Oh, and so does Biden's so far.

If your way of "thinking" is those actual results means Carter and Biden were unsuccessful or the worst presidents compared to Repubs like Herbert Hoover, George W. Bush and Donald J. Trump, who's economic stewardship and decisions wiped out millions of USA jobs each and are major contributors to the conclusion that by January 20, 2021 the Republican Party in the White House destroyed more USA jobs than they created since 1860 when the first Repub won the White House, then you have a very weird but typically Repub anti-American worker and anti-American economy way of "thinking."

Yep, that's way more damage to the USA economy and destruction of USA jobs inflicted on the USA by Repubs than was ever inflicted on the USA by China.

[Xpartan]

Your criticism appears to be unreasonable.

No one ever told me that I needed a medical degree in order to express an opinion on a discussion board.

Don't see why anyone would need a medical degree in order to comment on a political thread inside of a hooker discussion website.

It seems unreasonable to you because you've missed my point.

You're absolutely correct, one doesn't need a medical degree in order to comment on anything.

But if you do comment on a highly specific medical issue, you might want to have some idea of what you're talking about.

I mean, once again, you can comment any way you want, but if you say a stupid thing that's universally known to be untrue (like, I don't know, that condoms do not protect against a VD or that Covid vaccines do not protect against the infection), you might sound like an idiot. Crackpot even.

If the aforementioned 'doctors' are fine with it, then let them have at it as our president says.

But let's get serious for a minute.

Insisting that the vaccine doesn't prevent the transmissions AT ALL is absolute lunacy.

Doesn't prevent SOME transmissions -- yes, which means that in most cases vaccines work.

We don't know everything. For example, I read today that Moderna remains strong over time, while Pfizer starts waning out after 4 months. That might explain the Covid growth in Israel because Israel got jabbed by Pfizer.

The study also broke out effectiveness, also called VE, for the period of 14-120 days after vaccination, as well as after the 120-day mark. It was there that the numbers diverged more significantly. The Moderna vaccine remained 92% effective against hospitalization after 120 days, but the Pfizer vaccine was down to 77% effectiveness.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coro...s-cdc/3278415/

Does it mean that Pfizer is worthless. Of course not. 77% protection is still better than zero.

Nothing works 100% of the time.

[Elvis 2008]

I agree.

I don't agree with you there. No one is falsely asserting that the vacine prevents ALL transmissions.

No. Here is where "logic" is failing you Elvis.

When deciding upon mandates, a better question to ask is "Does the vaccine reduce transmission of the virus?

The vaccine does not prevent all transmissions, but it greatly reduces some of its transmission.

One study compared the households of unvaccinated infected individuals to the households of vaccinated individuals that still had breakthrough infections.

31% of the other household members wound-up getting infected also when it started in the household by the unvaccinated individual.

Only 11% of the household members were infected when a vaccinated person experienced one of these breakthrough infections.

The vaccine does not prevent all infections. But it does prevent a very large number of infections (and all or nearly all Covid-19 deaths).

And that is why mandates (and getting nearly everyone vaccinated) makes sense.

Slow the spread, get vaccinated.

As for your study in household contacts, that is one I am skeptical of and ask why you did not link it? There has to be so many variables that have to be accounted for. Among my questions is what variant was predominant during this time period. How was antibody status accounted for prior to infection?

The vaccine did seem to be effective with stopping transmission of the alpha variant, but it does not seem to work with delta, and who the hell knows how well it will work with the next one?

I am extremely skeptical when it comes to the CDC on politically charged issues. Here is what they wrote "Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time. "

You do not mandate when you have the phrase appear to. You let people make their own decisions.

The CDC is been pushing vaccination like crazy, and I do not expect them to back down from their proclamations as the vaccine loses its luster. So IMO this push for vaccination is as much the CDC not losing face as it is for preventing disease.

It is funny in that I have published on this website a regimen of antivirals and antibiotics that I have taken when I go bare. I got the response I expected from the American government loving. "You cannot do that. Antibiotics are a gift from God, and you are wasting them!" If I asked the group here, which method do you use to prevent herpes, condoms or Valtrex? I am certain that condoms would win or maybe #1 would be "Uh, What is Valtrex?

And why can you get Valtrex over the counter in Colombia and Mexico and not in the USA? My take on that is the CDC is more interested in government control than in preventing the spread of disease. The notion that you are "wasting a treatment" when it is available in other countries is batshit crazy. The CDC must think herpes cannot spread over a country's borders.

We have treatments that are 100% effective for transmissible diseases (Valtrex is not 100% effective against herpes transmission though) and we do not mandate treatment for them. The fact that you douches want to mandate for Covid is absolutely fucking insane. What is next? Video taping people having sex to make sure they are using condoms? Better yet, seeing as how we do not need sex to have babies and sex spreads disease, why not just ban sex?

But this flaw in logic does not seem to bother you. You want to be patted on the head by the CDC and told you are good boys because you got your vaccine and you used your condoms, and I am like, WTF is wrong with you?

You all seem to be more obsessed with pointing a finger at Republicans and saying, "My getting Covid is your fault" than educating yourself on what works to actually prevent getting the disease.

And the young men who have heart problems after the vaccine?

[ScatManDoo]

"As for the Pfizer booster, side effects are terrible. 63.7% had fatigue. 48.4% suffered from headaches. 39.1% felt muscle pain." Seriously? This is what you describe as "terrible"? Terrible is being on a ventilator and getting long covid for a year. These symptoms are pretty much what most people experience from a about of the flu. What a pussy. I'd rather have any or all than be dead. Just sayin.

Those symptoms are pretty much what most people experience from the covid. Oh, and after recovery, they have natural immunity and no need to be a human Guinea pig for Big Pharma's software masquerading as a vaccine.

Why are you mischaracterizing people who are receiving the vaccine after 2.5 billion folks have safely been vaccinated as Guinea pigs?

Tafesse's research has found vaccination led to increased levels of neutralizing antibodies against variant forms of the coronavirus in people who had been previously infected. "You will get better protection by also getting vaccinated as compared to just an infection," he said. On Sept. 13, 2021.

[Chris P]

Carter happily handed the worst POTUS ever award to Biden the puppet.

The empty thought-bubble from Biden's head is a nice touch.