American Politics

[Run Mann]

I was a Navy officer. Most of my friends retired with 20+ years and as O5. The few that are still in are O6 now with 26 years. I know of 1 Black guy that has stayed in long enough to be a flag officer, which is O7. I think he just got it last year or the year before and he graduated 10 years before us. The Chief of Naval Operations has the rank of O10 and has been in the Navy for 36 years. Only 32 people in history has held this position.

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If you were a Navy officer then you would know that the services release a selection list that shows detailed data of who was selected and who was not. There is no need to go back to the strawman argument because everyone interested in the promotion list knows who was selected and who was not and who was in the zone of consideration. The data is released for the entire service, not just the people you know. the discussion. Selecting someone for a position is not based soley on GPA, there are a number of factors that have to be taken into consideration. This discussion is about whether or not systemic racism exist in the USA. I provided several examples detailing why it does. In your America, if you truly believe it does not after what I provided so be it. The data is not only about you and not only about one or two years, it is a calcluation of years which means that even if we accept the numbers in your sample, that sample would only be applicable to that year or years you are refering. Learned and experienced black people like Colin Powell and Condi Rice sees systemic racism in America but what would they know. Your point on this issue is about as looney as your point that American's don't make laws they vote for other people to make laws, As if the people they vote for are from a foreign country.

https://www.benjerry.com/whats-new/2...racism-is-real

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-s...hs-data-2020-6#black-americans-are-underrepresented-in-high-paying-jobs-3.

https://www.politico.com/blogs/polit...-action-019573

[Run Mann]

Only 2 cases in recent history that I can remember when a person got shot and they were being cooperative. That is Philando Castile in Minnesota who told the cop he legally had his gun on him and the dumbass shot him for no reason and the guy in South Carolina that the cop told him to get his license, then he shot the guy when he turned his back and went into his truck to get said license.

https://abcnews4.com/amp/news/crime-...ears-in-prison

Yeah, Floyd deserved that knee on his neck, thanfully the jury did not share your view. So if that happened in those two cases how do we know it did not happened in more cases. The do as you're told and everything will be ok sounds good but real people know there are good cops but there are also dirty cops who break the law more than some criminals do.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/25/95617...bling-patterns

[D Cups]

The USA is the only country in the world that makes such a big deal about what your skin color is. It's ridiculous. EEO categories are stupid. I have been to 25 countries. Sure, there is always some prejudice but not to the degree as it is in USA. Hell, in Brazil you will see all kinds of mixed couples. It's normal. I don't give a fuck about skin color. We should all be more concerned about character, yes? BTW, Run Man, don't you know who Colin Powell is? Geez. I would've voted for him for president if he ran. Mr. E, I was air force officer, too (0-3) and served with many fine officers and enlisted of all colors. All this racism shit is bullshit. All lives matter.

[Mursenary]

It makes no difference to Canada what you post. If the source isn't Fox "News", trump, OANN etc. It is all BS to him. He has made it quite clear that he believes that all Democrats are ignorant, socialists and racists and only Republicans have the ability to think and aren't racist.

I agree. But some other people with the same leanings but perhaps more reasonable and sensible may be reading, forming and / or changing their opinions.

[Mr Enternational]

And this means that every other black person pulled over by the police and were shot or killed or treaty unfairly/unjustly or illegally targeted were wrong because it did not happen to you?

Nope. It means that if George Floyd would have gotten into the car 20 minutes ago like they asked him, then he would still be alive. It means that if Dante Wright would not have hopped his ass back into the car and tried to drive away, then he would still be alive. You fight your case in court, not on the street.

Only 2 cases in recent history that I can remember when a person got shot and they were being cooperative. That is Philando Castile in Minnesota who told the cop he legally had his gun on him and the dumbass shot him for no reason and the guy in South Carolina that the cop told him to get his license, then he shot the guy when he turned his back and went into his truck to get said license. Those 2 incidents blew my fucking mind.

https://abcnews4.com/amp/news/crime-...ears-in-prison

[Mr Enternational]

White males are over-represented in most high paying, white collar, executive, senior government position, the military, the courts, law makers, attorneys or most other high paying similar fields. The data from several verifiable sources shows this to be true. 30 to 35 percent of the population in the USA are white males but White males are overrepresented in most fields/occupations. In some fields, white males make up 70 percent and more in certain leadership/executive positions. Charles Brown is the first general to lead one of the military services as the chief of staff, (General officer in charge of the Air Force). The U.S Army has never had a black, Hispanic or woman Chief of Staff. Could it be that using your supposition that the only qualified people were white males or that no one else had any interest in that position?

I was a Navy officer. Most of my friends retired with 20+ years and as O5. The few that are still in are O6 now with 26 years. I know of 1 Black guy that has stayed in long enough to be a flag officer, which is O7. I think he just got it last year or the year before and he graduated 10 years before us. The Chief of Naval Operations has the rank of O10 and has been in the Navy for 36 years. Only 32 people in history has held this position.

The first thing that needs to be considered is how many Black people are sticking around to have a chance at the position. The second thing is how many other people are they in competition with. If there is only 1 Black guy and the other 49 of his peers are White, even if it did not go on performace and politics, what are the odds of the Black guy getting it if they even did something as random as drew names out of a hat? Hell, even if they could pick all the guys, there would be 2% Black Chiefs of Staff, not 13% or 30%.

That person made it despite systemic racism, but what the numbers demonstrate is that in a society where a group of people who comprises 12 to 15 percent of the population; they should be represented more than the 1 to 2 percent they are in many management/senior/white collar/executive positions. Look at the Federal judges today and you will see they are mostly white males; would you conclude that the reasoning for this is that they are the most qualified or they are in a select network and a select group of people selects them for those position?

What percentage of the population a certain race is has zero to do with the percent that "should" be in a particular field. This country is composed of 60% Whites, 18% Hispanics, 13% Blacks, and 6% Asians. The NBA is 74% Black, 17% White, 2% Hispanic, .4% Asian. What does one have to do with the other? Not a damn thing.

I am from one of the Blackest cities in the country. The part time program at my grad school in that same city was ranked 5th in the nation. When I graduated with my MBA we were a class of about 200. There was 1 other Black guy besides me and 1 Black woman. These are the first numbers you should be looking at. It does NOT start with the percentage of a particular race in the country, but the ones in the class willing to work towards that something!

As I said before, you go by the people that are qualified. So us 3 Blacks out of 200 people is 1.5%. That means if everybody in my class was offered and executive position there would be how many Black executives? 1.5%! So the 1% or 2% that you mentioned does actually sound like a plausible number believe it or not.

So what does the 13% of Black citizens even have to do with this if they have not studied and shown themselves approved? How can you say White males are over-represented when they made up 90% of the class? Was the school supposed to pull more Blacks out of its ass?

And to really state the deal, I should not have even been there. I was actually on my way to law school when a buddy convinced me to go to business school instead. I had never even had a business class in my life before my masters. So without me there would have only been 1% Blacks. Every Black graduate in the country had the same opportunity to go take the test and sign up for an MBA program the same way that I did. But how many actually did it?

After that you should be looking at the performace of the Black people. I can tell you that I got nothing near a 4.0. So when it is time for those executive jobs there would have been 180 other people ahead of this Black guy, rightfully so. Now if I had the 4.0 and the random White dude showed up with the 3.2 and he got the executive position, we may have had to talk to Houston about that problem. Everyone had the same opportunity, but not everyone will have the same outcome. You can not seriously include those that did not even want to take advantage of the opportunity in your statistics of who got what outcome. They were not even in it to be thinking about winning it in the first place. They are just innocent bystanders.

Next let's talk about why Black males are under-represented as classical pianists.

[PVMonger]

And this means that every other black person pulled over by the police and were shot or killed or treaty unfairly/unjustly or illegally targeted were wrong because it did not happen to you? What if in those cases the citizens are stating that they were not wrong, should they not call out the police if they believe the police were wrong? What if they conducted themselves the same way you did but the police that pulled them over was having a bad day, a bigot or simply a prick? Your life experiences are your own, it is anecdotal and to imply that because something did not happen to you people of your race are somehow responsible for the outcome in police interaction is spurious logic. I have never been scammed in my life, but I won't dismiss other people's claim of being scammed because it hasn't happened to me. I have never been sexually harassed in the workplace but will not dismiss another man's claim that he was because it did not happen to me. Even the police chiefs and police departments around the country are now acknowledging that their police department needs retraining as it relates to their interaction with the public. It is not a one-way street, and the police are not to be blamed in all these cases, but neither are the citizen. There are countless cases of police officers being terminated for cause and cities paying huge sums to citizens and in some cases their survivors because of the way the citizens were illegally/unfairly and unjustly treated by the police..

Very true. Unfortunately, your writing and logic are falling on deaf ears. The people who should hear this message won't because in their world, anybody that doesn't think the way they do is either a socialist or a communist.

[Canada]

Common sense says Mr International wasn't shot because he wasn't a criminal and didn't resist arrest or pull a gun or knife. It does not matter if you are black or white or purple. If you are a criminal which all the blacks were that were shot by police last year and you resist arrest you probably will be tasered or shot. I agree some cops are more aggressive but most police risk their lives for you every day. They have a split second to make a decision when a criminal resists arrest or pulls a gun or knife. The democratic cities that have started defunding their police have seen a 50-177% increase in crime and murders. Do you want to live in a city like that? Do you want your kids and grandkids living in a city of.

[Canada]

QUOTE=Run MannAnd this means that every other black person pulled over by the police and were shot or killed or treaty unfairly / unjustly or illegally targeted were wrong because it did not happen to you? What if in those cases the citizens are stating that they were not wrong, should they not call out the police if they believe the police were wrong? What if they conducted themselves the same way you did but the police that pulled them over was having a bad day, a bigot or simply a prick? Your life experiences are your own, it is anecdotal and to imply that because something did not happen to you people of your race are somehow responsible for the outcome in police interaction is spurious logic. I have never been scammed in my life, but I won't dismiss other people's claim of being scammed because it hasn't happened to me. I have never been sexually harassed in the workplace but will not dismiss another man's claim that he was because it did not happen to me. Even the police chiefs and police departments around the country are now acknowledging that their police department needs retraining as it relates to their interaction with the public. It is not a one-way street, and the police are not to be blamed in all these cases, but neither are the citizen. There are countless cases of police officers being terminated for cause and cities paying huge sums to citizens and in some cases their survivors because of the way the citizens were illegally / unfairly and unjustly treated by the police.

Common sense says he wasn't shot because he wasn't a criminal and didn't resist arrest or pull a gun or knife. It does not matter if you are black or white or purple. If you are a criminal which all the blacks were that were shot by police last year and you resist arrest you probably will be tasered or shot. I agree some cops are more aggressive but most police risk their lives for you every day. They have a split second to make a decision when a criminal resists arrest or pulls a gun or knife. The democratic cities that have started defunding their police have seen a 50-177% increase in crime and murders. Do you want to live in a city like that? Do you want your kids and grandkids living in a city of crime? Really??

[Chris P]

If the situation was reversed and say Asians were the majority and held most of the high paying position and were given the same majority of the opportunities as whites are today you would hear the same systemic racism argument from whites which would be right.

UCLA's student enrollment is 50% Asian, despite Asians making up only a tiny fraction of the population of LA and California. 75% of players in the NBA are black, despite making up only 12% of the population of the USA.

Both of these institutions are very high-profile and positions in them are highly sought-after by people of all races. It must therefore be systemic racism against white people which keeps them underrepresented in both UCLA and the NBA. Fortunately, mobs of white people have not burned down cities in protest at this injustice.

[Chris P]

I am not affiliated with any political party. I vote for the candidate that will represent my interest of the day the best. That being said, being a Black man, liberal outlets keep telling me I am going to get killed by the police and all this stuff about there being systemic racism. I don't remember Fox stimulating any of this fear.

I tend to live by my experience and I have experienced this very big world to the tune of over 100 countries. Maybe shit like this is effective on someone that never lives outside of their 3 block neighborhood, but I know better. From nursery school to the Navy I have been around people of all races and my Black parents never talked to me about race. People were just people. Only in undergraduate was I around only Black people because I went to a historically Black college. Never had a sense or thought that a person among my group was getting an opportunity that I did not because they were White or I was not getting an opportunity because I was Black.

I am 49 years old and I have carried a gun since I was 21. At this point I own enough to carry a different one everyday of the month. Back when I first got my license my state was an open carry state, meaning the weapon had to be visible. I went into Bank of America one morning and waited in line with with my weapon exposed. Somebody tripped the alarm. Of course 30 policemen rushed in and asking no questions filled me with lead.

NOT! A lone WHITE policeman came inside and whispered to me to follow him outside and do not touch anything. We got outside to his car and I showed him my license. He said that the law says that you have to have it out in the open, but just cover it up anyway so people will not get scared.

I have not even been pulled over by a policeman in the last 20 years and the license plate on my car makes it known that I am Black. The two times before that when I was arrested (unpaid tickets), I did not argue and I did not resist. I knew I was in the wrong and did not try to fight the case in the street. I just got the handcuffs on me and got in the car and went to jail. I called someone to get me out. You know, like kind of how the system is designed to work. Simple!

Post of the year.

[Run Mann]

I have not even been pulled over by a policeman in the last 20 years and the license plate on my car makes it known that I am Black. The two times before that when I was arrested (unpaid tickets), I did not argue and I did not resist. I knew I was in the wrong and did not try to fight the case in the street. I just got the handcuffs on me and got in the car and went to jail. I called someone to get me out. You know, like kind of how the system is designed to work. Simple!.

And this means that every other black person pulled over by the police and were shot or killed or treaty unfairly/unjustly or illegally targeted were wrong because it did not happen to you? What if in those cases the citizens are stating that they were not wrong, should they not call out the police if they believe the police were wrong? What if they conducted themselves the same way you did but the police that pulled them over was having a bad day, a bigot or simply a prick? Your life experiences are your own, it is anecdotal and to imply that because something did not happen to you people of your race are somehow responsible for the outcome in police interaction is spurious logic. I have never been scammed in my life, but I won't dismiss other people's claim of being scammed because it hasn't happened to me. I have never been sexually harassed in the workplace but will not dismiss another man's claim that he was because it did not happen to me. Even the police chiefs and police departments around the country are now acknowledging that their police department needs retraining as it relates to their interaction with the public. It is not a one-way street, and the police are not to be blamed in all these cases, but neither are the citizen. There are countless cases of police officers being terminated for cause and cities paying huge sums to citizens and in some cases their survivors because of the way the citizens were illegally/unfairly and unjustly treated by the police.

And about this systemic racism shit. First question is what did you do to make yourself qualified for whatever you were trying to do? Folks claim this racism only using one set of data. 10 people over here are White, and nobody is Black. They never even make mention that maybe no Black people were even interested in the position, or that over the last 10 years half the people applying have been Black but none of those that were QUALIFIED were accepted. We are led to believe that because there were no Blacks, no women, no gays, no whatever, something is wrong with the system. Makes a big difference how you make your mind up depending on the data that is available to you. That is why they need to quit letting the public decide a case by seeing a short video clip and go back to the old system where a jury that has been presented ALL the evidence deliberates on the case and comes up with a decision..

You used the straw man argument that maybe no blacks, gay, or women were interested in or qualified for the positions. You cited no examples of this, you are simply making a supposition to make a point and improperly applying it to society, it is ridiculous in every sense of the word to believe that in an integrated and educated society there would be widespread occurrence of this ever occurring in any field. Unless someone is applying to be the head server for a pack of lions and hyenas in the Serengeti at feeding time or the clean-up cuckold in some cheap porn, hiring data tells us that more than one group of people would be interested in or qualified for most positions fields anywhere.

Heed your own advice and get off CNN, FOX or any other alleged news outlet and research for yourself. White males are over-represented in most high paying, white collar, executive, senior government position, the military, the courts, law makers, attorneys or most other high paying similar fields. The data from several verifiable sources shows this to be true. 30 to 35 percent of the population in the USA are white males but White males are overrepresented in most fields/occupations. In some fields, white males make up 70 percent and more in certain leadership/executive positions. Charles Brown is the first general to lead one of the military services as the chief of staff, (General officer in charge of the Air Force). The U.S Army has never had a black, Hispanic or woman Chief of Staff. Could it be that using your supposition that the only qualified people were white males or that no one else had any interest in that position?

Lloyd Austin is the first Black Secretary of Defense of the USA. Do you think that there has never been any other minority qualified for or interested in that position until now? Austin did a "60 minutes" interview recently where he addressed racism and it effects. He was asked about the absence of black generals on the Joint Chiefs staff, he promised that under his watch, he would address that issue as he would be the one making the recommendation for staffing to the president. See how he answered that question. Take a look at it and get another perspective, you may be surprised. Because Austin made it to that position does not negate the fact that systemic racism exists, on the contrary, it shows us that it does because of the amount of time it took for a qualified and interested minority to attain that position.

Your example of "how a person made it if systemic racism exists" is off the charts illogical. That person made it despite systemic racism, but what the numbers demonstrate is that in a society where a group of people who comprises 12 to 15 percent of the population; they should be represented more than the 1 to 2 percent they are in many management/senior/white collar/executive positions. Look at the Federal judges today and you will see they are mostly white males; would you conclude that the reasoning for this is that they are the most qualified or they are in a select network and a select group of people selects them for those position?

Not one Asian and only two blacks have ever served on the Supreme Court. Is it that because the only qualified people are the ones who are on the court or the ones who served? Why have no blacks, Asians or Hispanic ever served as FBI Director? Is it because only white males are desirous of that job or only white males were always the best qualified? Look at the make-up of jobs on Wall Street or corporate America, the people in the media, especially on TV. Why are minority representation so low? The evidence shows that it is not from a lack of qualifcation and interest but a lack of opportunity. For the first time in its history, a woman will lead U.S Citizenship and Immigration services. Is it because she is the first qualified woman? There are so many more examples. The point is that is that no reasonable person would conclude that on a widespread basis the absent of minorities in positions/fields is a result of their lack of qualification or lack of interest or that the other person was always more qualified than they were. Their non-selection is in many instances are attributed to the people with the power to make such selection not selecting them despite their superior qualifications and interest.

A recent study showed that there are only 4 black CEOs of fortune 500 companies, lack of interest or are they not qualified for those positions? Systemic racism exists whether you see it or not and not and your personal experience are not representative of society at large. The data and the numbers are much more representative than your individual situation because those numbers are inclusive of everyone, ergo it becomes empirical data while your situation is about you, remember the YMMV abbreviation? Every occurrence is not because of racism, sometimes the minority candidate is not the right fit or is not qualified. Which is why it starts with education and opportunity for the people who want it so that the proverbial playing field can be leveled. However, to summarily dismiss systemic racism because it has not happened to you or a couple of minority made it shows how out of your depth you are on this topic. If the situation was reversed and say Asians were the majority and held most of the high paying position and were given the same majority of the opportunities as whites are today you would hear the same systemic racism argument from whites which would be right.

[Beijing4987]

Wikipedia: "Foreign aid is given by the United States to other countries to support global peace, security and developmental efforts, and humanitarian relief during times of crisis. In 2016 42% was spent on long term development. 33% on military and security aid. 14% on humanitarian aid. 11% political aid. Enough griping about feeding and sheltering refugees and the tired trope about welfare queens, and "USA First". USA reaps benefits from giving out aid. Much was spent to rebuild Europe and Japan after WW2.

[Canada]

Maybe those of higher intelligence can parse the costs vs benefits of this issue from the libertarian Cato Institute, founded as the Charles Koch Foundation In 1974. Just for fun let's discuss "Marcus Porcius Cato 234-149 BC. Cato, known for his conservatism and and opposition to Hellenization.

You don't need higher intelligence for welfare benefits. You just need common sense. Anyone with common sense knows welfare should be for USA citizens in need rather than welfare to illegals entering our country. USA gives billions of funding to countries to take care of their poor.

[Beijing4987]

Maybe those of higher intelligence can parse the costs vs benefits of this issue from the libertarian Cato Institute, founded as the Charles Koch Foundation In 1974. Just for fun let's discuss "Marcus Porcius Cato 234-149 BC. Cato, known for his conservatism and and opposition to Hellenization.