Thread: American Politics
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09-27-22 21:15 #10384
Posts: 5452Presidents matter
Originally Posted by Tiny12 [View Original Post]
The Great Reagan Recession.
Below is a valuable piece of contemporaneous history in real time as it was happening. Later, revisionist historians, comfy Repubs and pro Repub Bothsiders such as yourself would lay it all on the Fed's monetary policy and leave Reagan's Repub agenda and economic philosophy out of it.
But the Fed had tightened the money supply and raised rates even more under Carter and we didn't plunge into a Great Recession then. Presidents matter. They can promote measures that either contribute to reducing if not narrowly avoiding economic disaster or light a flame to trigger one or do nothing or do something that only serves to exacerbate a downturn.
Dems are masters of the former, far more positive approach. Remember Obama's Cash For Clunkers and the extraordinary measures he took to keep auto sales going and rescue the auto industry so as to deftly avoid worsening the Great Repub Recession he inherited from GWB? Repubs laughed at him and derided him for it. "Stop the bailouts. Just let it happen. Laissez Faire". They weren't any kinder to his American Recovery and Reinvestment Act signed and passed in late February 2009. "he will only make things worse! In fact, he did make things worse"!
MittWitt Romney was still claiming such a ridiculous thing in 2012.
By mid June 2009, not only was the Great Repub GWB Recession not "worse", we were pulling out of it and heading to one of the best, recession-free, job creating runs in history.
By contrast, disproportionately high tax cuts for the top margins appears to be the all-purpose solution for every problem a Repub sees if he sees a problem at all.
And that's what Reagan did in 1981. It is not what Carter did in 1980. It is not what any Dem would have done on the mistaken belief that "Supply-Side / Trickle-Down" policies would improve anything in the economy. In all likelihood, Carter and most other Dems would have found a way to extend those auto rebates and more. Demand-Side economic stimulus, not Supply-Side policy.
Reagan just sat on his pony and waited for his Repub Coolidge-Hoovernomics tax cuts for the rich to do what they always do. And, sure enough, they did. LOL. Nothing.
So, even though the Fed rates were higher under Carter a year earlier and they were trending downward under Reagan a year later, Carter's recession was barely a blip on the screen while Reagan's was one of the longest, deepest and most damaging in history. While he and every other "Supply-Side / Trickle-Down" believer was waiting for their all-purpose solution to work its mythical and nonexistent magic.
And waiting. And waiting.
WHAT CAUSED THE RECESSION
November 24, 1981
https://www.nytimes.com/1981/11/24/b...recession.html
...Economists offer several theories to explain the sudden shift downward. One was the further deterioration of consumer buying, which occurred gradually. The Fed's tight monetary policy is viewed as one factor behind the slowdown in sales. Another factor was inflation's continued erosion of personal real income. Yet another blow was the end of the rebates that stimulated automobile sales. 'An Additional Whammy'
....
'I think that business thought that the tax cuts would move the economy forward, and that by the fourth quarter, everything would work out,'' Mr. Ratacjzak said. 'A Shift in Perceptions'
But as the summer waned, so did confidence. ''There was a dramatic shift in perceptions between July and August,'' hed added. ''The mood had been that everything still looked good. Then the feeling that there would be immediate gains from the President's economic program just vanished, about the time the President signed the tax bill last August..
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09-27-22 19:44 #10383
Posts: 657Hero: Governor DeSantis Sends Hurricane Ian To Martha's Vineyard
Tallahassee, FL — Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is being hailed as a hero after he used top-secret technology to reroute Hurricane Ian to Martha's Vineyard.
"I'll tell you what, hurricanes have been tormenting Florida for too long. Not on my watch!" said DeSantis to a crowd of screaming fans. "So you know what? We're going to load this hurricane onto a plane and fly it north. Martha's Vinyard, you'd better board up your 10,000 square foot mansions and cancel your polo matches, because Ian is on its way!
Martha's Vinyard residents have responded by flying to their winter homes in Florida and directing their house servants to prepare their homes for hurricane landfall. "The fact that DeSantis would spare his own densely populated cities and send the hurricane to ravage our multi-million-dollar mansions as a political stunt is beyond the pale," said Vineyard resident Karen Von Karen. "First the migrants, and now this? Haven't the good people of Martha's Vineyard suffered enough?
The DOJ has also responded, saying they will investigate the governor for using unapproved top-secret hurricane trafficking technology. "Hurricane trafficking is a serious offense, almost as serious as protesting at a school board meeting," said Attorney General Merrick Garland. "We will not let this horrific act go unpunished. The FBI will be sent to kick in doors, confiscate cellphones and stuff, and investigate to find what crimes he can be charged with!
At publishing time, the National Guard announced they will return all the Venezuelan migrants back from detention on the Army base to Martha's Vineyard to assist in Hurricane cleanup efforts. . .
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09-27-22 19:40 #10382
Posts: 5452Originally Posted by Tiny12 [View Original Post]
Fine. Then you might as well stop voting from now on because you can't tell the difference in the results of either Party anyway. Too many nit-picky irrelevant details have led you unavoidably to that conclusion. Congratulations.
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09-27-22 18:34 #10381
Posts: 1807Originally Posted by EihTooms [View Original Post]
Since Biden became president, there have only been two dissenting votes when the Fed Open Market Committee was setting the fed funds rate. Bullard wanted to increase the rate 0.5% instead of 0.25% in March, 2022, and George voted to increase 0.50% instead of 0.75% in June, 2022. Lael Brainard, the Vice Chair of the Fed who progressives were promoting to replace Powell, has voted with Powell and the majority every time.
Here's a link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...mittee_actions
And as to jumping through hoops, painting Volker, a Carter appointee, as one of the heroes who savaged inflation (which I agree with btw) while elsewhere pinning the blame on Reagan for the 1981/1982 recession takes the cake.
About my last reply to one of your posts, I forgot to include a link for population growth in the 18 to 64 year old age group. Since you like to see supporting links, here's one.
https://datacenter.kidscount.org/dat...03/13515,13516.
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09-27-22 18:29 #10380
Posts: 1119Au Contraire Mon Frère...
Originally Posted by MarquisdeSade1 [View Original Post]
As noted here:
Originally Posted by JustTK [View Original Post]
Typical, for most QAnon/Repub/Bothsidesist, when the truth hurts and all that's left, is a not too subtle cry for "h-e-l-p" to the Admin/Mods.
Anywho, Brother, whine on!
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09-27-22 17:16 #10379
Posts: 3230Originally Posted by PVMonger [View Original Post]
The economic differences were at the state level and economically there was a huge difference with regards to red and blue states.
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09-27-22 17:10 #10378
Posts: 3230Originally Posted by Tiny12 [View Original Post]
I just do not want to engage in the cheap shots like Eih does, calling Chair Powell, Trump appointee Powell. Powell was kept on as Chair by Biden: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...as-vice-chair/.
This is what I call the Dems here dumb Dems. In their eyes, the only bad people in government are Republicans. Now that Powell is being demonized, it is not Biden's Powell but Trump's Powell.
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09-27-22 17:07 #10377
Posts: 1807Originally Posted by EihTooms [View Original Post]
It's the same with employment numbers. How many people have you got left to fill jobs as you get closer to full employment? The unemployment rate was 4. 7% when Obama left office, which is pretty respectable. It was 3. 5% in February, 2020, before we were feeling the effects of COVID. 3. 5% was the lowest we'd seen since 1969, and we haven't seen significantly lower numbers since the early 1950's.
Also, the wind was at our back, in terms of demographics. The working aged population increased by 2. 3 million during the three year period from 2013 to 2016. It only increased by 270,000 during the 3 years from 2017 to 2020. There were more working aged people entering the work force to fill jobs during the last three years of the Obama administration.
Originally Posted by EihTooms [View Original Post]
You don't have to live in a hyperpartisan world. Look,
Biden and the Democrats' move to negotiate drug prices for Medicare was long overdue.
Biden did not steal the 2020 election.
Biden is not the head of a crime syndicate that has taken billions in payoffs from Communist China.
Biden did not get the attorney general of Ukraine fired to help his son.
That was easy. You should try something similar.
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09-27-22 16:40 #10376
Posts: 5452Nope. And, oh, about Trump's supposed Roaring Stock Market. LOL
The charts, graphs and data on this site comparing Obama's economy vs Trump's economy on most of the important metrics only go to the end of 2019, the "good" Trump years. So they don't even reflect Trump's final year where all of his worst economic decisions, crap stewardship and lies came home to roost and virtually all of the upward trajectories he inherited from Obama-Biden and coasted on until something challenging finally occurred went to total shit.
But all of the evidence, data and record of results throughout Trump's only "good" years clearly prove he most certainly did not build that good economy, he inherited it:
Donald Trump
stated on February 4, 2020:
"Years of economic decay are over" because Trump "reversed the failed economic policies of the previous administration."
FALSE
https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...under-donald-/
Oh, and about that supposedly "roaring Stock market" under Trump where, sure enough, it appears the gains were somewhat bigger under Trump than under Obama.
Would you like to know why that happened?
Yep, we were warned by the Dems that did not vote for that crap legislation that this would happen when Trump and his Repubs handed the American taxpayer a bill for about $2. 5 Trillion for their god awful Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. And, sure enough, this is exactly what happened:
What did corporate America do with that tax break? Buy record amounts of its own stock.
The White House promised '70 percent' of the tax cut would go to workers. It didn't.
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/eco...mounts-n886621
The Republican tax reform package that was supposed to raise wages and spur hiring has instead funded a record stock buyback and dividend spree, benefiting investors and company executives over workers.
It BOUGHT back stocks for corporate bigwigs in their own companies. LOL.
So whenever you see, hear or read someone crowing about those "great stock market gains" under Trump, now and forever you will know that was BOUGHT by the American taxpayer for a whopping $2. 5 Trillion along with the expense of FEWER jobs created, NO improvement in wages and NO noticeable improvement in GDP growth!
And now you know THE REST of the story.
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09-27-22 15:40 #10375
Posts: 1068Obama regulations were killing small business too
Originally Posted by CaliGuy [View Original Post]
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09-27-22 08:45 #10374
Posts: 5452Uh
Originally Posted by CaliGuy [View Original Post]
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo...h=764e7d306ba6
Did Obamas Last 3 Years See More Jobs Created Than Trumps First 3?
TRUE
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ob...re-jobs-trump/
FACT: New figures from Trumps own Department of Labor show that 6.6 million new jobs were created in the first 36 months of Trumps tenure, compared with 8.1 million in the final 36 months of Obamas ― a decline of 19% under Trump.
Which, as we all know, is the classic outgoing Repub hand off to the incoming Dem.
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09-27-22 02:16 #10373
Posts: 5452Originally Posted by Spidy [View Original Post]
Biden could not ignore it.
Of course, Goldilocks Not Too Hot, Not Too Cold, Just Right For My Perfect World Larry Summers has never mentioned that factor.
Nor has he factored in the very good chance of things involving extreme weather conditions, flare ups of new and more virulent strains of Trump's Pandemic virus anywhere in the world, former nutty KGB World Leaders going nuttier, oh and how about whatever violent, explosive Domestic Terrorism acts might occur any minute incited and led by an even nuttier former so-called potus in the mix?
Gee, it just might turn out going a tad overboard rather than woefully under estimated on economic stimulus the one and only time you can bet on going to the well before that traditional 1st Midterm outcome comes around was really the best and most prudent option for a Real POTUS who knows he has no option to taste a bit of this porridge, a bit of that porridge and then the third porridge until he finds the exact right one before he heads up to the bedroom to test this mattress, then that one and on and on.
Goldilocks Summers and others like him can disregard those real world risks in order to opine in all directions what "could" happen if you create too many jobs and put too much money in the system in response to a totally new and unprecedented way for godawful Repub stewardship to destroy the economy and the country.
Biden can't.
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09-27-22 00:26 #10372
Posts: 5452Originally Posted by Tiny12 [View Original Post]
Or maybe, like Trump's Fed Chairman appointee, the problem was Larry Summers just wasn't very good at his job as Director of the National Economic Council from January 20,2009 to January 20,2011.
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09-27-22 00:02 #10371
Posts: 5452It could. No, really?
Originally Posted by Tiny12 [View Original Post]
And we "could" have an exceptionally bad Hurricane Season where my tax dollars will for the umpteenth time bail out deadbeat Repubs in Florida and Texas who crow about low taxes but can't ever seem to deal with their shit weather conditions on their own.
If that happens or if there is a new and unexpected virulent outbreak of Trump's Pandemic virus in key supply chain sources of the world or Putin decides to invade the United Kingdom, etc, at least we will have kept tens of thousands of businesses open and created millions more jobs along with the revenue generated with those Biden / Dem recovery measures that "could" have looked like too much to Mr. "could" Be Too Much or Too Hot For My Perfect World Summers but will definitely come in handy come emergency response time.
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09-26-22 22:18 #10370
Posts: 2579The fat lady is warming up for all you CCP asslickers