American Politics

[JustTK]

LOL. Good one JustTK. You said it best when you said you are arguing with people who are like Evangelicals. That is what these people are. Their version of science is not data based but faith based.

I doubt you will get an answer, but if you do, somehow the Dems not getting anything done since 1975 was Trump's fault.

I still did not know when I hired people I looked up and saw who was president and said, "Oh wait, a Republicans is in office. Better not hire someone yet. " but apparently that is how things really work.

Right! We both saw it during COVID, when all they could do was claim "science is one our siide, oh the vaxxes, oh masks, oh science. " and then provide no evidence at all. Its exactly the same here.

And your correct again. That's why every time you criticise the Dems. Their answer is whataboutism. What about Trump, he said this, he did that. Instead of dealing with the issue which is their party's performance. Its why Trump continues to be nr one topic here, bcos its the only means the Dems have to defend their abysmal performance. Classic Whataboutism.

[JustTK]

JustTK: Why do you hold Democrats responsible for the minimum wage falling in purchasing value?

Bcos the Reps have no intention of raising it. Only the Dems claim to be a party of the people. That's why I hold them responible. Bcos the a party of fake ne-libs. And bcos we have people here that claim the Dems have a great record of achievements for the people.

[EihTooms]

I'm no fan of Trump. And I'm a huge fan of yours in the Bangkok threads. However I don't believe it makes sense to judge the record of his administration based on the numbers when he left office, almost a year into COVID. The economy was doing nicely, with unemployment levels the lowest since the late 1960's, when COVID hit. And real median household income rose substantially in 2019 for the first time since the Clinton administration. In 2020 dollars, it was $63,292 during 2000, and had only risen to $63,683 during 2016, the last year of the Obama administration. The middle class was just treading water for 16 years. It rose to $69,560 during 2019..

Of course it is fair to judge Trump for what happened in the wake of his disastrous economic decisions, among the most disastrous of them being to defund the CDC and pull all of the Pandemic Prevention and Response teams out of China in 2018 against all expert warnings not to do something so stupid and dangerous:

I have provided dozens of links to the reports of him doing that. Here is but one:

Exclusive: U.S. slashed CDC staff inside China prior to coronavirus outbreak

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21C3N5

Followed by his critical year 2020 of self-serving lies that could not have been written better in a script titled. "I Was a Pandemic Producing World Leader."

Do I even need to repost the links for the hundreds of times he lied to the world about what he knew about it, no different than if he had personally intended to convert a regional spread in China into the Trump's Pandemic it became?

And all while he was still working as hard as he could to further defund scientific research, testing and treatment for it.

Trump budget cuts funding for health, science, environment agencies

https://www.washingtonpost.com/scien...c1c_story.html

Meanwhile, his pre Trump's Pandemic economy was only fair, below average compared to what we had under the 11 most recent presidents. Too bad he flushed $2.5+ Trillion down the shitter with his godawful December 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act just to squeak out a below average result prior to his ultimate total crap results by the end of his term.

Which, in book, reduces his pre Trump's Pandemic results from "below average" to "crap" as well.

Data show Trump didn't 'build' a great economy. He inherited it.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/mee...rited-n1237793

Don't believe the hype: Trumps economy was plummeting even before the pandemic

https://www.salon.com/2020/10/12/don...demic_partner/

[Tiny 12]

Trump to leave office with the worst jobs record since Herbert Hoover

https://fortune.com/2021/01/11/us-ec...-since-hoover/

Fact check: Chart of job growth by president shows historic unemployment under Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rt/6177339002/

Trumps Final Numbers
Statistical indicators of President Trump's four years in office.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/10/trumps-final-numbers/

A sampling of the highlights:

Last Trump Job Approval 34%; Average Is Record-Low 41%

https://news.gallup.com/poll/328637/...ecord-low.aspx

I'm no fan of Trump. And I'm a huge fan of yours in the Bangkok threads. However I don't believe it makes sense to judge the record of his administration based on the numbers when he left office, almost a year into COVID. The economy was doing nicely, with unemployment levels the lowest since the late 1960's, when COVID hit. And real median household income rose substantially in 2019 for the first time since the Clinton administration. In 2020 dollars, it was $63,292 during 2000, and had only risen to $63,683 during 2016, the last year of the Obama administration. The middle class was just treading water for 16 years. It rose to $69,560 during 2019.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

This is noted in your FactCheck link, that average weekly earnings were up 8. 7% during Trump's time in office, adjusted for inflation. Since Biden came into office, they've dropped 4. 2%, after inflation, because increases in the prices of goods and services are outpacing increases in wages. The unemployment level, though, is back to where it was before COVID, although a lot of people have dropped out of the workforce.

And how much of all this, good and bad, is because of Trump and Biden? Well, they didn't cause COVID, aren't dictators who control the legislative branch, and don't have much to do with the business cycle or Fed policy, let alone what's happening in places like China and the Ukraine. So maybe not a lot. But I believe some of the legislation they supported and their executive orders had an effect. I'd give the edge to Trump and the Republicans on that. The corporate tax cuts and deregulation helped the economy and increased the demand for labor. And the poorly timed American Rescue Plan provided too much stimulus and added to inflation, just as post-COVID demand was increasing and supply chain glitches were surfacing.

[Spidy]

One more thing on being bored with the postings from the "Dems" BMs, if you are indeed a true "bothsidesist", "neithersideist", "fence walker" or whatever you're calling yourself, it may behoove you ...

I am not calling myself any of these terms. These are all silly terms that you folks have made up so that you have a label to attack...

Really us folks?

I imagine at some point, it all just becomes a blur, as to what's real, what is truth or NOT? So allow me to refresh.

LOOK HERE:

I have no idea what MDS writes. Its like trying to decipher The Riddler. He doesn't seem tloo be able to put a single coherent sentence together.

You have taken that upon urself by supporting the status quo. "I can't support change, bcos it will never happen" BS.

Bothsiderism. No, I am Neithersiderism.

AND HERE:

As he said its not bothsiderism, its neithersideism ...

To his credit, even MDS1 (in one his more "coherent" posts), pointed out the fact that you called yourself, a person of "neithersideism".

I am not calling myself any of these terms...

Really? From your own posts, that's not true, now is it.

So is it lying? Is it denial? Slip of the tongue? Simple case of forgetfulness or perhaps something in-between, on both sides or is it neither?

So which is it?

[PVMonger]

Actually, two economists, Gabriel Zucman and Emmanuel Saez, who advise Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, came up with a way to get it done. It would involve a tax on employers that pay less than some arbitrary amount, say $15 per hour, combined with a tax refund to employees who are paid less than that amount. The effect would be to make the minimum wage $15 for this example. This could get by with 51 votes, a simple majority, if attached to a reconciliation bill.

The last time this was voted on, 8 Democratic Senators voted not to raise the minimum wage. Remember Kyrsten Sinema's infamous "thumbs down. ".

I believe this is something that should be decided at the state and local level. Federal politicians have no business meddling in it. What makes sense for New York City and Seattle, $25 per hour or whatever, would put people out of work in Mississippi.

So the only way to do this without the filibuster would be to raise taxes. What have you been smoking to think that the QOP would go along with that?

FYI, the lowest livable wage state in the USA is Tennessee where $14.38 per hour is considered a "living wage". Somehow, though, the QOP that runs TN would rather keep the minimum wage at $7.25 'cause, you know.

[PVMonger]

It might be difficult to understand to a USAn that suffers from underfunded state education. That's fine. I will go easy on you.

The filibuster. Right, so this is an EXPLANATION, a reason why the Dems have got nothing useful done. So your agreeing with me that the Dems have got nothing useful done. So we agree now that they have an appalling track record, especially in modern history? So why does ET bang on in every comment he makes about how superb have been the Dem acheivements?

Well, who knows, at least you and I agree now that the Dems have done nothing useful since 1975.

You are the one who said that the Democrats have gotten nothing done since the mid-1970's. I said nothing of the kind. I said that Democrats do share some of the blame.

I am truly sorry that you don't understand how the USA government works but I didn't expect you to. I don't know whether it is your lack of education or whether it is a refusal to do a simple internet search to learn something new. I realize that you feel that all that's necessary is to snap your fingers to make something happen. Donnie the Dumbass thinks that way too.

But the filibuster is a way of life in USA government. Nobody likes it except whomever is in the minority and the Re[pubs have been in the majority a lot. The filibuster has been the reason the QOP has been so successful in the past 60-some-odd years. All they need to do is vote no in the Senate and all useful work stops. Then they can lie and say how the Dems haven't gotten anything done. Case in point is President Biden's infrastructure plan. Lots of the QOP voted against it and they are now touting to the brain-dead people who voted for them how much money they're bringing back home. And their constituents are simply too stupid to know any better.

[Tiny 12]

Therefore, for the Democrats to pass any type of minimum wage increase, they would need (assuming no Re help) a filibuster-proof majority. Something they last had in 1975.

Actually, two economists, Gabriel Zucman and Emmanuel Saez, who advise Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, came up with a way to get it done. It would involve a tax on employers that pay less than some arbitrary amount, say $15 per hour, combined with a tax refund to employees who are paid less than that amount. The effect would be to make the minimum wage $15 for this example. This could get by with 51 votes, a simple majority, if attached to a reconciliation bill.

The last time this was voted on, 8 Democratic Senators voted not to raise the minimum wage. Remember Kyrsten Sinema's infamous "thumbs down. ".

I believe this is something that should be decided at the state and local level. Federal politicians have no business meddling in it. What makes sense for New York City and Seattle, $25 per hour or whatever, would put people out of work in Mississippi.

[Elvis 2008]

It might be difficult to understand to a USAn that suffers from underfunded state education. That's fine. I will go easy on you.

The filibuster. Right, so this is an explanation, a reason why the Dems have got nothing useful done. So your agreeing with me that the Dems have got nothing useful done. So we agree now that they have an appalling track record, especially in modern history? So why does ET bang on in every comment he makes about how superb have been the Dem acheivements?

Well, who knows, at least you and I agree now that the Dems have done nothing useful since 1975.

LOL. Good one JustTK. You said it best when you said you are arguing with people who are like Evangelicals. That is what these people are. Their version of science is not data based but faith based.

I doubt you will get an answer, but if you do, somehow the Dems not getting anything done since 1975 was Trump's fault.

I still did not know when I hired people I looked up and saw who was president and said, "Oh wait, a Republicans is in office. Better not hire someone yet. " but apparently that is how things really work.

[EihTooms]

No wiggling necessary from me. I am still here waiting for you to address the subject I raised, which is the national / federal minum wage. All the wiggling and squirming is clearly being done by yoy since you try to change the subject with every post.

What are you talking about? Do you even know? I provided substantiation that replied to your inaccurate pro Repub "Bothsiderism" contention and destroyed it from the very beginning.

Dems ARE and HAVE BEEN raising the minimum wage, the "real" one, the "nominal" one, both of them all along for years. Even the "blahblah" one you no doubt will conjure up next in order to justify suckers voting for your beloved Repubs so they can continue their mission to wipe out millions of USA jobs whenever they can.

The Dems do it where they can do it. Where they can override persistent Repub objections to it. Therefore, they do it at the state and local level rather than in the Senate where outright Repubs and wiggly, squirmy, stealth "Bothsider" Repubs like you have foolishly been given too many seats to get it done there.

As you see in the link that I provided twice already the Dems have done it in California, New York, Massachusetts, the District of Columbia and elsewhere, places that damn near represent half of the working population of America anyway. Certainly some of the only states that matter to the national economy; Blue states where human beings far outnumber rattle snakes and tumble weeds and where there are more skyscrapers and office buildings than outhouses, unlike most Red states.

If the "Real" minimum wage had not been raised so effectively by Dems around the country over the objections of Repubs, Trump could not have cited it in the data when he lied to his sucker followers about it having a damn thing to do with his otherwise crap economy. And Repubs would have no basis to whine and complain that there is "too much money" flooding the roaring Biden economy during his historic recovery from the latest (say it with me now) Great Repub Recession and Massive Job Destruction.

[ScatManDoo]

No wiggling necessary from me. I am still here waiting for you to address the subject I raised, which is the national / federal minum wage. All the wiggling and squirming is clearly being done by yoy since you try to change the subject with every post.

Raising the minimum wage has been desired by most or all democrats. Raising the minimum wage is opposed by nearly all republicans.

JustTK: Why do you hold Democrats responsible for the minimum wage falling in purchasing value?

[JustTK]

The key issue here, .. called the filibuster.
Something they last had in 1975.

I realize that this is a difficult concept top understand...

It might be difficult to understand to a USAn that suffers from underfunded state education. That's fine. I will go easy on you.

The filibuster. Right, so this is an EXPLANATION, a reason why the Dems have got nothing useful done. So your agreeing with me that the Dems have got nothing useful done. So we agree now that they have an appalling track record, especially in modern history? So why does ET bang on in every comment he makes about how superb have been the Dem acheivements?

Well, who knows, at least you and I agree now that the Dems have done nothing useful since 1975.

[JustTK]

Now, let's see you wiggle, squirm and pretzel twist out a pro Repub "Bothsider" case for $15 - $18 being less than $12.04.

No wiggling necessary from me. I am still here waiting for you to address the subject I raised, which is the national / federal minum wage. All the wiggling and squirming is clearly being done by yoy since you try to change the subject with every post.

[ScatManDoo]

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[MarquisdeSade1]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/...ship-campaign/