American Politics

[Elvis 2008]

This is not about freedom of choice it is about the general wellbeing of society. The virus has mutated several times and one day we may need to start this whole process again if we do not control it now. The sooner it is controlled and dies out the better. That is achieved more effectively by vaccination than catching it and hoping a long term immunity results, presuming you don't die or become an invalid. So what's the point of all your discussion? You want this virus to perpetuate? You want to give it as much chance to further mutate as possible? You want to give the gullible the best chance for death and disablement? You are so wrapped up in your anti Democrat, anti government rhetoric that you cannot allow yourself to accept that sometime you need to put away your anger and accept some things need to be done for the greater good?

Actually, the anti-government sentiment is aimed at Dictatorial Democratic douches like yourself who still believe that government can control a virus. You believe that because your party associated a virus paid for by Fauci created in China with Trump. https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5...he-trump-virus.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/o...rus-trump.html

So you keep spreading this pro-government crap that the virus can be contained as long as we March in lockstep and do whatever the government says.

It has been nearly 18 months now and everyone is sick to the death of this crap and we have concluded governments do not know what the fuck they are talking about. They have used this as a means to achieve fame, control, power, and wealth, and smart people see that.

But you don't. You do not get viruses that survive in other species never will be eradicated. See the link: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...g/animals.html#text=%E2%80%A2%20 Recent%20 experimental%20 research%20 shows, infected%20 with%20 the%20 virus.

Recent experimental research shows that many mammals, including cats, dogs, bank voles, ferrets, fruit bats, hamsters, mink, pigs, rabbits, racoon dogs, tree shrews, and white-tailed deer can be infected with the virus. Cats, ferrets, fruit bats, hamsters, racoon dogs, and white-tailed deer can also spread the infection to other animals of the same species in laboratory settings.

Investigations found that mink from a Michigan farm and a small number of people were infected with SARS-CoV-2 that contained unique mink-related mutations (changes in the virus's genetic material). This suggests mink-to-human spread might have occurred.

Finding these mutations in mink on the Michigan farm is not unexpected because they have been seen before in mink from farms in the Netherlands and Denmark, and also in people linked to mink farms worldwide.

So I tell you what, GDreams, you Dictatorial Democratic douche, how about you see about getting minks to social distance, wash their hands, wear masks and get vaccinated? And after that, you work on all the other animals. And once you achieve that with minks and all the other animals, then you come tell us what to do? Better get to work!

[Drbombay]

Further, the issue with blacks and browns isn't simply about hesitancy. It also has everything to do with access, with wealthier white people having more access to vaccines (and all matter of lifesaving healthcare) than do people of color. The inequality in access to vaccines and medicines is both inter and intra-continental in scope and impact on the less fortunate, with the wealthy having access to more than their fair share, or what they even need.

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...ace-ethnicity/

I'm calling BS on that whole access and equity part. I'm a Black American and from a deep south state and I can tell you many of my fellow Black Americans have not gotten the vaccine, not because they don't have access, the White Republican governor of the state as well as other Federal agencies have made it so that anyone who wants one can get one for free with vaccine drives all over the place. It's just a matter of people not wanting to get one. You have one party of so called "Dem-Progressives" always saying they are on your side, but are willing and ready to import a new crop of broke folks into your neighborhood and give them benefits galore while they only give lip service to so called Reparation's for your ancestors. Same as with the ID to access to vote, they say you're not smart enough to figure out how to pick up an ID to vote, yet the same Dems will open the borders and let people into the country with no ID and they wind up getting one later.

[GDreams]

Weak, even by your abysmal standards.

But Trump moved heaven and earth to get the vaccine developed and implemented within a year. We all know that if the do-nothing democrats had been there, it would have taken five.

Since 2000, taxpayer dollars have financed the development of various vaccine platforms for HIV, pandemic flu, and other threats to public health. In response to the COVID-19 pandemic, the government leveraged investments in those platforms in three ways. First, it supported additional preclinical studies. Second, it absorbed the bulk of human testing costs and risk through a set of contracts that paid for the various phases of vaccine development and manufacturing. And third, it reduced manufacturing risk by underwriting capacity investments.

So Trump spent other peoples money to direct funds into existing programs to develop Covid Vaccines. Trump could not even read a medical research paper yet alone move heaven and earth to have a vaccine developed.

Democrats would have leveraged off the same programs to achieve the same thing because that is why we fund Government departments to orchestrate these types of programs. Given its the blue states where the majority of tech and entrepreneurs reside and get support from democratic governments, you should be grateful for democrats who do this for you, unlike the red states who grow stuff and dig stuff thanks to huge government bailouts and tax breaks.

[EihTooms]

Weak, even by your abysmal standards.

Trump stated that the pandemic would end even without the vaccine, which is true. Every pandemic ends. The Spanish flu ended, despite being vastly more virulent and damaging than covid.

But Trump moved heaven and earth to get the vaccine developed and implemented within a year. We all know that if the do-nothing democrats had been there, it would have taken five.

(Frankly, if the democrats had been in power, the media wouldn't even have made an issue of covid and just written it off as the flu, given that almost everyone who dies with it is over 80 and / or has another comorbidity which would have done away with them anyway. The entire hysteria was just another massively exaggerated fake anti-Trump psy-op).

I see.

So your very strong counter argument to my actual links detailing Trump's repeated assertions that his Pandemic WAS going away "WITHOUT a vaccine!" for, at minimum, 10-11 months (right up to within days of the November 2020 election) after he learned about the threat of such a Pandemic possibly developing if only a so-called potus helped it along by word and deed was that in February 2020 when he said it will probably be gone by April...he REALLY meant April 2030, April 2040, April 2050 or something like that after several million Americans died from it without anyone bothering to invent a vaccine for it, right?

Well, damn. I guess I wasn't in tune with the Trump/Repub "nuance" on the whole thing.

I would call those repeated assertions deadly, shockingly irresponsible, self-serving lies that would only discourage anyone from bothering to waste their time and money inventing a vaccine for it, much less taking any unnecessary risk, however tiny, in taking a vaccine for it.

But, by golly, you put your conservative Repub mind to it and managed to convince yourself those early and often repeated assertions right up to just days before the November 2020 election were kinda' sorta' "true" and even heroically "helpful" to getting a vaccine invented and then taken asap. Impressive.

[Spidy]

Even the the partisan audit in Arizona has failed to find any evidence of fraud. In fact Biden increased his lead. How is Trump going to get feeble minded republicans to give him money now? What is the next grift from the worlds biggest grifter? The time and money wasted so some lowlife failed entrepreneur can sooth his bruised ego!

However, I think, this grifter squid vampire, has yet to suck the life savings from his gullible base, so the money sucking grift will continue, from Trump-Quackula.

"Voter Fraud Forensic Audit", from the Cyber Ninjas, what a joke! But I got to give them brownie points, on taking the legal art of fleecing the American public, to a whole new level.

[Chris P]

As late as the second half of October 2020, Trump was still repeatedly and proudly proclaiming his Pandemic was disappearing, running its course, petering out, ending "even WITHOUT the vaccine."

Weak, even by your abysmal standards.

Trump stated that the pandemic would end even without the vaccine, which is true. Every pandemic ends. The Spanish flu ended, despite being vastly more virulent and damaging than covid.

But Trump moved heaven and earth to get the vaccine developed and implemented within a year. We all know that if the do-nothing democrats had been there, it would have taken five.

(Frankly, if the democrats had been in power, the media wouldn't even have made an issue of covid and just written it off as the flu, given that almost everyone who dies with it is over 80 and / or has another comorbidity which would have done away with them anyway. The entire hysteria was just another massively exaggerated fake anti-Trump psy-op).

[GDreams]

No, there have been 680,000 people who died with covid. The vast majority had comorbidities and would have died anyway. Average age of death is mid-80's, and were on their way out with unrelated illness. We have also seen infamous cases such as the guy who died in a motorbike crash counted as a "covid" death.

The number of people who died *of* (not with) covid, with no comorbidity, is a tiny fraction of that.

On the other side, the number of covid cases is far higher than the 42.5 m confirmed cases. About half of people who contract it don't even have symptoms. Others will have symptoms similar to flu, just stay at home and self-medicate and then recover in a few days. Neither of these groups are in confirmed cases because nobody knows they had it. Total actual cases will be north of a million.

It is more like 100,000 out of 100,000,000, or a 99.9% survival rate.

The point of all this is what? Many people who have had Covid now have permanent lung damage, amputations, chronic fatigue and other long term effects. The point is there are widespread vaccinations for many diseases. The point these diseases are no longer widespread shows the benefit of these programs. This is not about freedom of choice it is about the general wellbeing of society. Just like sending people off to wars. The virus has mutated several times and one day we may need to start this whole process again if we do not control it now. The sooner it is controlled and dies out the better. That is achieved more effectively by vaccination than catching it and hoping a long term immunity results, presuming you don't die or become an invalid. So what's the point of all your discussion? You want this virus to perpetuate? You want to give it as much chance to further mutate as possible? You want to give the gullible the best chance for death and disablement? You are so wrapped up in your anti Democrat, anti government rhetoric that you cannot allow yourself to accept that sometime you need to put away your anger and accept some things need to be done for the greater good?

[The Cane]

The group in America with the lowest level vaccination is blacks. Not known for their support of Republicans.

White people in the United States make up 60% of the unvaccinated. Also, their rate of increase in getting vaccinated is lower than for blacks and Hispanics, who are picking up speed. Further, the issue with blacks and browns isn't simply about hesitancy. It also has everything to do with access, with wealthier white people having more access to vaccines (and all matter of lifesaving healthcare) than do people of color. The inequality in access to vaccines and medicines is both inter and intra-continental in scope and impact on the less fortunate, with the wealthy having access to more than their fair share, or what they even need.

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...ace-ethnicity/

[Chris P]

Only about 14% of Americans are black. If 100% of them were Democrats and every one of them decided to keep the Trump's Pandemic variants developing until one finally overrides all current vaccine protections by refusing to get vaccinated it would pale compared to white Repubs' contributions to achieving that goal.

If you had read your fellow dem douche's post (maybe you wrote it) you would see that he was referring to white evangelicals.

White evangelicals constitute a similar proportion of the US population to blacks: somewhere between 15 and 20%. Just as approximately 90% of the black vote goes to the democrats, around 90% of the white evangelical vote goes to the republicans.

So the groups are comparable. And blacks have the lower vaccination rate of the two. Naturally, the fake news and dem douches ignore that in their never-ending attempts to attack white people. Kind of like how they focus their attacks on the Second Amendment against law-abiding white conservative rural and suburban long gun owners, when the vast majority of illegal shootings and killings are carred out by minorities in ghettoes.

The left and fake media never let reality get in the way of their false narrative.

As to "overriding vaccine protections", as has already been established, vaxed people can catch and spread covid just like non-vaxed. See Oscar de la Hoya, double-vaxed but forced to pull out of his boxing comeback because he got covid.

All the vaccine does is somewhat reduce symptoms. It does not prevent contraction or passing on of the virus. In short, it does not work and Fauci lied (again).

[Elvis 2008]

The rightwingnuts here keep trying to convince us that the COVID vaccines don't work because some fully vaccinated individuals get COVID. Or that the COVID vaccine is worse than other vaccines which provide lifelong protection from disease.

Sorry, semantic douche, you are just creating a straw man so let me restate the "right wing nuts" position.

First, mandates are not justifiable for the Covid vaccine when they do not work to prevent transmission.

Second, given the risks and benefits of the vaccine, no one has any right to impose their beliefs on anyone else.

You douches really do want to give the vaccine via blow dart, and you just pretend like the side effects do not exist, that vaccinating everyone is going to make us go back to 2018 when no one wore masks, and Biden will be celebrated as a hero. Sorry even if you could do that and vaccinate everyone, that is not going to happen. These vaccines, which started with so much promise, really have been a disappointment.

[EihTooms]

Even the the partisan audit in Arizona has failed to find any evidence of fraud. In fact Biden increased his lead. How is Trump going to get feeble minded republicans to give him money now? What is the next grift from the worlds biggest grifter? The time and money wasted so some lowlife failed entrepreneur can sooth his bruised ego!

These Biden/Dem-hating Trumpster/Repub suckers are really gluttons for punishment. It might be Trump's only talent or skill; being able to identify, target and continue to con the biggest self-loathing gullible suckers in the room (or country) who apparently never run out of money, self-respect or dignity to hand over to him as long as he keeps telling them blatantly obvious and ridiculously easily debunked lies.

Including the repeated recounts in Georgia, this one in Arizona and elsewhere, these pathetic Repubs have had to experience Biden kicking Trump's butt in an election landslide a half a dozen times so far.

Trump isn't doing it just for his ego and the sadistic thrill of making total fools of everyone who voted for him, although that is no doubt a big part of it. The dude obviously really badly needs the cash flow.

[EihTooms]

The group in America with the lowest level vaccination is blacks. Not known for their support of Republicans.

Only about 14% of Americans are black. If 100% of them were Democrats and every one of them decided to keep the Trump's Pandemic variants developing until one finally overrides all current vaccine protections by refusing to get vaccinated it would pale compared to white Repubs' contributions to achieving that goal.

[EihTooms]

What on earth are you blabbering on about? The virus came to America in 2020. Within the same year, Trump had not only encouraged and supported companies in inventing a vaccine, he had got it approved and into use.

Hardly a "year long lie that it would go away without a vaccine", is it? You really need to put a little more nuance into your lies: I doubt even Pelosi would put out such an unqualified whopper. Then again.

As late as the second half of October 2020, Trump was still repeatedly and proudly proclaiming his Pandemic was disappearing, running its course, petering out, ending "even WITHOUT the vaccine."

Trump returns to public campaigning, falsely claiming that the virus that infected him is disappearing
Oct. 10, 2020.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...f1a_story.html

It's going to disappear':
A timeline of Trump's claims that Covid-19 will vanish
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020...mment-tracker/

"The vaccine will end the pandemic. But its ending anyway. I mean, they go crazy when I say it. Its going to peter out and its going to end. But were going to help the end and were gonna make it a lot faster with the vaccine and with the therapeutics and frankly with the cures."
- President Trump, October 15, 2020

"Even without the vaccine, the pandemics going to end. Its gonna run its course. Its gonna end. Theyll go crazy. He said without the vaccine watch, itll be a headline tomorrow. These people are crazy. No, its running its course."
- President Trump, October 16, 2020

Trump got his first briefing about threat in November, 2019:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelligence-report-warned-coronavirus-crisis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273

He pocketed that info, did not discuss it publicly. Obviously, that meant zero promotion pf a vaccine or suggestion one would ever be needed.

By February, Trump was already predicting it would disappear any day now.

Yeah, I'm going to call November 2019 to October 2020 a year of dismissing any reason for someone to bother inventingna vaccine for it.

[PVMonger]

The group in America with the lowest level vaccination is blacks. Not known for their support of Republicans.

BFD. Republicans are less likely to have been vaccinated than Democrats. By almost 13%. https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/the...ination-rates/.

[PVMonger]

Excellent post. In fact Whitmer. Like many senior democrats. Should be in prison, on manslaughter charges for her deliberate forcing of elderly care homes to accept covid positive people, which resulted in the deaths of many of the state's most vulnerable. Most of whom were from a demographic that leans republican, which undoubtedly factored into her scheme.

As the old saying goes, lock her up.

As for cleaning up in November, in a serious and secure election I have no doubt the republicans would clean up next year (as they would have last year).

Unfortunately, in today's clown world of millions of "mail-in" ballots spammed out to whoever, wherever and "collected" en masse by democrat operatives; democrat-controlled cities ejecting GOP observers from the count, pausing it when things aren't going their way and suddenly "discovering" a pallot of just the hundreds of thousands of 98% democrat votes they need to win; and millions of democrat-voting illegals pouring over the border and being sent by Biden's handlers to swing states where they are sure to pick up a ballot or ten: one can never be too sure.

Does the Michigan governor have a line-item veto? Yes she does.

What is the likelihood of the "mask mandate prohibition" surviving the line item veto? About as likely as a Republican giving a hoot about anybody other than themselves.