American Politics

[EihTooms]

That's kind of like giving the first century inventor Heron of Alexandria credit for creation of the engine Tooms. I doubt Beowulf and his band of brothers had ever heard of Bo Gritz. And from my post you should know I think it's a nutty idea. But hey, I understand. You have enough sense to know it's nutty too so are trying to pawn the blame off on anyone but a Democrat.

https://www.wired.com/2013/01/trilli...coin-inventor/

Democrats developed the idea as a way of forcing Republicans to increase the debt limit. I dont understand how you can argue with that.

Gritzs idea wouldnt have worked anyway. In 1992 the Mint could only issue coins up to a $50 denomination. The law wasnt changed to allow issuance of platinum coins in any denomination until 1996.

Beowolf was a nobody answering a silly question. Even Paul Krugman was answering a silly question about it.

Bo Gritz was the Populist Party candidate for President of the United States of America in 1992.

Wasn't asking or proposing anything "silly" in his mind. He meant it.

[Tomasb]

Speaking of large denomination coins, let's instead discuss the simple copper penny. We will know that real progress is being made in devaluing the worth of lobbyists when the penny is removed from circulation. However, it's unlikely that will ever happen because the copper industry and their lobbyists has such a large and disproportionate influence on American legislators. Every year, the US produces a ridiculous amount of pennies that end up in American homes in glass jars and the like never to see the light of day again.

[Tiny 12]

Spidy, you are closer to being right about that than is Tiny.

Neither a Dem nor Paul Krugman came up with the idea.

It was Bo Gritz in 1992, a Third Party candidate Tiny would have loved given his Third Party affiliation while maintaining a demonstrably pro Repub stance and agenda:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz

That's kind of like giving the first century inventor Heron of Alexandria credit for creation of the engine Tooms. I doubt Beowulf and his band of brothers had ever heard of Bo Gritz. And from my post you should know I think it's a nutty idea. But hey, I understand. You have enough sense to know it's nutty too so are trying to pawn the blame off on anyone but a Democrat.

https://www.wired.com/2013/01/trilli...coin-inventor/

Democrats developed the idea as a way of forcing Republicans to increase the debt limit. I dont understand how you can argue with that.

Gritzs idea wouldnt have worked anyway. In 1992 the Mint could only issue coins up to a $50 denomination. The law wasnt changed to allow issuance of platinum coins in any denomination until 1996.

[Tiny 12]

Spidy, Actually the idea originally came from some guy posting on the internet who went by the name Beowulf, and his buddies. Krugman adopted the idea and it took off. Beowulf probably felt like this guy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zNCrMEOqHpc

[EihTooms]

Tiny 12, Where did you get those twisted facts about Krugman, being the progenitor of the coin idea?

Yes, junior congresswoman, Tlaib is still learning the ropes and won't (hopefully) further pose such non-serious Repub ideas. But, her heart was in the right place.

Yes, on October 1st, 2021, Mr. Krugman had suggested that to Biden, but the one (1) trillion dollar coin idea, existed some decades before Krugman's suggestion, as the Huff Post, reports in it's article below.



So although both Dems and Repubs, agree minting the coin isn't a serious idea, I can't shake the feeling and still think I remember this being an idea of Republican making. Or perhaps, I just heard it as GOP/Repub folklore?

Tiny 12, since you seem to be in the mood for stories, here's one I'd like to think we could add to GOP folklore? I called it, "GOP Lord of the Coins":

I would like to think, some might even say, it the one trillion dollar coin was forged by the lords of dark-money Repub think-tanks, deep in the "GOP/Repub Mountains of Mordor". Where upon the finishing of its making, the GOP faithful, all cried out to the skies above, "One coin to rule all the debt!"..kkkk!

Spidy, you are closer to being right about that than is Tiny.

Neither a Dem nor Paul Krugman came up with the idea.

It was Bo Gritz in 1992, a Third Party candidate Tiny would have loved given his Third Party affiliation while maintaining a demonstrably pro Repub stance and agenda:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz

[EihTooms]

Interesting thoughts there Tooms. I'll summarize for those who don't have time to read the whole piece.

Trump is a mass murderer.

Trump converted a manageable regional epidemic into a worldwide pandemic.

The main stream media is pro Republican

Larry Summers is pro Republican and enjoys the company of right wingers

Republicans like to ride ponies and clear brush

The correct name for SARS-CoV-2 is not the COVID-19 virus or the China Virus. It's the Trump Virus.

Putin possibly got hold of accurate, written U.S. intelligence from Trump that motivated him to invade Ukraine. Thus the run up of the price of oil in 2022 was Trump's fault.

Hamas possibly got hold of stolen USA intelligence leaked by Trump that motivated it to invade Israel. That will result in a crippling effect on the world's oil supply chain.

The 2020 recession should be labeled as the Great Republican Economic Disaster, even though inflation adjusted GDP ended 2020 only 1.1% below where it started, despite the worst pandemic since 1918. And even though all spending in 2020 had to pass muster with Nancy Pelosi and Democrats.

The TCJA passed by Republicans costs 1.5 trillion every 10 years into infinity. (The provisions actually mostly expire at the end of 2025, although the corporate tax cut stays around. Even Biden doesn't want to take the corporate rate back to where it was before the TCJA. The TCJA "costs" nothing. Rather it reduces the amount government takes out of the pockets of taxpayers. Finally I have to give you credit for using the $1.5 trillion Congressional Budget Office estimate, instead of the $2.5 trillion you were quoting earlier.)

Economic performance is somehow related to the temperature of porridge

yada yada

Couple of points you got wrong. See, this is why these points must be repeated. You obviously have not been paying attention:

Trump converted a "likely" manageable endemic confined to a region in China into the Trump's Pandemic it became. The evidence for that is overwhelming. He spent 2018,2019 and almost all of 2020 working very hard to make that happen. More than any other person on the Planet really.

There is no evidence that he "created" the virus that his Trump's Pandemic spread around the world and "caused all the problems. ".

That is why I have never posted such a thing.

The porridge reference is about your and Larry Summers' pro Repub "Bothsider / Neithersider" nonsense that incoming Dems being handed another in a long list of historic, unprecedented Great Disasters by the outgoing Repubs ought to simply produce recovery legislation responses to them that are "just right" to the dollar instead of sometimes getting it wrong.

"Just right" to the dollar only for that one moment in time, that is. LOL. As though that is the only damage to America that historic, unprecedented Great Repub Disasters will produce while Great Repub Disaster Loons are merely marking time until they can enjoy at least a Pink Tinkle advantage in Congress 2 years later so they can launch into more historic, unprecedented ways to Crash the USA Economy and, hopefully for their perpetual goal, wipe out millions upon millions of jobs.

As, sure enough, they are attempting to do right now.

When Repubs stop pulling shit like this and take at least a 6-12 month break from it, I'll stop mentioning it.

[Tiny 12]

Tiny 12, Where did you get those twisted facts about Krugman, being the progenitor of the coin idea?

Yes, junior congresswoman, Tlaib is still learning the ropes and won't (hopefully) further pose such non-serious Repub ideas. But, her heart was in the right place.

Yes, on October 1st, 2021, Mr. Krugman had suggested that to Biden, but the one (1) trillion dollar coin idea, existed some decades before Krugman's suggestion, as the Huff Post, reports in it's article below.



So although both Dems and Repubs, agree minting the coin isn't a serious idea, I can't shake the feeling and still think I remember this being an idea of Republican making. Or perhaps, I just heard it as GOP/Repub folklore?

Tiny 12, since you seem to be in the mood for stories, here's one I'd like to think we could add to GOP folklore? I called it, "GOP Lord of the Coins":

I would like to think, some might even say, it [the one trillion dollar coin] was forged by the lords of dark-money Repub think-tanks, deep in the "GOP/Repub Mountains of Mordor". Where upon the finishing of its making, the GOP faithful, all cried out to the skies above, "One coin to rule all the debt!" (...kkkk!)

Spidy, thanks for the trillion dollar post, honestly. I never read up on idea until I read your other post earlier today. It's fascinating.

The only part Republicans played in creating the idea was passing a bill in 1996 that made it legal for the USA Mint to issue platinum coins in any denomination. The Republicans involved in writing the bill never dreamed the legislation would ever be used to create a $100,000 coin, let alone a $1 trillion coin.

There are laws that prevent the government from issuing gold and silver coins in any denomination in excess of $50. And similarly there are laws against just printing money and handing it over to the federal government. But those restrictions don't exist for platinum coins. Furthermore, the difference between the Mint's cost of producing a coin and the price it's sold at is turned over to the United States Treasury's General Fund, "where it reduces the government's need to borrow."

In 2012 the Obama Administration and Democrats were seeking to raise the debt limit, and Republicans were fighting back. Paul Krugman figured a nifty way around the purported Republican intransigence would be for the mint to create a trillion dollar coin, and then sell it to the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve deposits $1 trillion with the Treasury Department. Presto change-o, a trillion dollars have been created out of thin air, and the government doesn't need to raise the debt limit! And the Obama Administration has a trillion dollars, never appropriated by Congress, to use as it sees fit!

Krugman resuscitated his idea in 2021, when Republicans were filibustering an increase in the debt limit. Jerry Nadler, Democratic Congressman, has been a big fan of the idea since Krugman introduced it.

All this is legal by the way, according to the legal scholars, although hare brained IMHO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillion-dollar_coin

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/o...ebt-limit.html

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Democratic Party partisans and politicians own this idea, lock, stock and barrel.

[Spidy]

Tiny 12, Where did you get those twisted facts about Krugman, being the progenitor of the coin idea?

Yes, junior congresswoman, Tlaib is still learning the ropes and won't (hopefully) further pose such non-serious Repub ideas. But, her heart was in the right place.

Yes, on October 1st, 2021, Mr. Krugman had suggested that to Biden, but the one (1) trillion dollar coin idea, existed some decades before Krugman's suggestion, as the Huff Post, reports in it's article below.

Democrats And Republicans Agree: Minting A $1 Trillion Coin Isn't A Serious Idea

"The idea, which has been around during the last decade of GOP brinkmanship over the debt limit, entails having the Treasury hand the Federal Reserve a single $1 trillion platinum coin."

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mint-...b0c2b49ad81fc9

So although both Dems and Repubs, agree minting the coin isn't a serious idea, I can't shake the feeling and still think I remember this being an idea of Republican making. Or perhaps, I just heard it as GOP/Repub folklore?

Tiny 12, since you seem to be in the mood for stories, here's one I'd like to think we could add to GOP folklore? I called it, "GOP Lord of the Coins":

I would like to think, some might even say, it [the one trillion dollar coin] was forged by the lords of dark-money Repub think-tanks, deep in the "GOP/Repub Mountains of Mordor". Where upon the finishing of its making, the GOP faithful, all cried out to the skies above, "One coin to rule all the debt!" (...kkkk!)

[CrowExplorer]

Wasn't really expecting, the sterile clinical (XX and XY chromosomal) definition as a response, since that's a given. But Okay...fair enough response/rebuttal w/r to answering the question(s).

Somehow though, I was expecting more then just a sterile clinical definition, since I also consider, that there is a definite societal (or social) aspect to the question(s), regarding "what is a woman?" or "what is a man?". One that does bring to the table, a more nuanced or more complex definition of "what is a woman/man?"

Yeah, I could be over thinking it, but considering that we do now live in a more complex society and we're no longer living in the dark ages, "a deeper dive" into said questions, should be warranted.

So I'm okay, with just a simple clinical definition, albeit a bit limited in scope/definition, to what I consider a more complex question, in an ever growing complex society. Why else would many of us keep calling into question, one another's identity? And thusly, perpetrate and weaponize "Identity Politics"?

For Example:

• Why are you so {...fill-in-the blank}? Or
  Why aren't you more like {...fill-in-the blank}? Or
  
  Why do you (assuming they actual do) hate your own race/people (white, black, yellow, red, purple..etc)? As if there's ONE STANDARD WAY to live, think, believe, work, play and thrive in life given your cultural heritage as a member of a certain race, sex, culture, ethnic group, economic group, social group...etc.
  
  Do you NOT KNOW if your a man or women? Or
  Do you NOT KNOW if your a {...fill-in-the blank}?

Is it all just genuine curiosity or hateful rhetoric, meant to embarrass, insult and humiliate?

StoryBook Hour:
With regards to kids learning, reading and attending a very cool "StoryBook Hour" vs. attending a "Nazi" book-banning/booking-burning bonfire, I'll take "StoryBook Hour", 24/7/365, each and every time.

But as you've stated, clinically they are still men, despite what Repubs and Christian right want you believe or think...RIGHT!

I don't like the idea of children being indoctrinated by any belief system, but I really hate the idea of children being exposed to sexual freaks. Just. Why? Are you just trying to piss people off? "look, we're coming for your children!" It's like you want people to vote the other way.

I miss the 90's. When you'd see these men dressed as women on Jerry Springer and everyone would have a good laugh. Nobody was pretending the emperor had clothes, we all knew it was a sex kink with these people.

It's definitely only the left who are pretending "trans women are real women". Everyone else knows that it's a dude wearing a dress.

The number one reason I can never get on board with the left, is that they are complete moral fascists right now. They love to create new trendy "victim groups", then chastise anyone who doesn't pay the current victim group proper homage. And outright attack anyone who dares to disagree with their moralizing.

They are also the number one enemies of free speech right now. Every leftie I know is pro-censorship. They tell me we need to "stop the spread of misinformation", and "only approved experts should be allowed to have an opinion on a given subject".

It's really too bad, I actually agree with the left on a few topics, but they're like that annoying asshole at the campground who goes around telling all the other campers what the rules are, and looks for infractions to complain to management about.

[Tiny 12]

They are all Repub Fairy Tales. Their entire Supply-Side / Trickle-Down, Little or No Attention to Regulations = Superior Economic Success crap is a total Repub Fairy Tale. The lazy MSM spin that "Carter ruined the economy and Reagan saved it" crap is a total Repub Fairy Tale.

We know what happens when the classic Repub Do Nothingness or Repub Do The Exact Wrong Thing agenda is followed.

We got the Great Repub Crash and Depression in the late 1920's / early 1930's, Eisenhower's 3, count 'them, 3 recessions in just eight years, Nixon / Ford's practically no growth and jobs creation at all, Reagan's Great Repub Recession and whopping ten consecutive months of 10%+ Unemployment Rates, GHW Bush's horrific jobs creation record. GW Bush's Great Repub Recession and even more horrific jobs creation record, Trump's historic mass murders and Global Supply-Chain destruction disaster thanks to his criminal negligence, ignoring all expert warnings and year long lies to convert a likely manageable regional endemic into the Trump's Pandemic it became to produce negative jobs creation.

Thar was after 4 miserable Trump Stewardshop years and even after his coasting on the terrific Obama-Biden economic trajectories handed to him in his first year came to an end when he passed that $1. 5 Trillion net cost every 10 years into infinity legislation that was already producing fewer jobs with it than without it.

So what was Larry Summers' brilliant and admittedly often dead wrong ideas for what Biden and the Dems were supposed to do about still another historic, unprecedented Repub Economic Disaster handed to a Dem to fix until, oh, May, June or July 2021 when we would get the final GDP numbers for "March" of that one year?

Repub-style Know Nothing Do Nothing or Do The Wrong Thing?

Go fishing, play golf, ride ponies, clear brush down at the ranch?

And how would pro-Repub MSM have reacted to that after doing whatever they could to blame Biden and the Dems for the Repub Economic Disaster they inherited, as usual?

What frame of mind would that have put into business and jobs creation domestically and around the world?

Worse, let's say Summers' and his fellow pro Repub Bothsiders and outright Wingers got their Fairy Tale wish and whatever Biden and the Dems put into the system for this particular historic and unprecedented Great Repub Policy and Stewardship Disaster turned out to be exactly right to the dollar.

For its one moment in time, that is.

Then what happens if there is a resurgence of a new and widely spread variation of Trump's Pandemic virus after that "And they all lived happily ever after" Repub Fairy Tale ending?

Guess what, that happened. No one knew how bad it would be or if it would be even worse that the first Trump's Pandemic virus.

Oh and how about if, say, some Loon like Putin somehow mysteriously got privy to accurate, in writing USA Intel from, say, some Repub former potus Loon in 2021 and decided the following year was the right time for an exceedingly stupid invasion of Ukraine, thereby produce the crippling of an oil Supply-Chain for the entire Globe to enjoy?

And as long as we're on that topic, how about if the powers that be somehow mysteriously also got privy to some of that stolen USA Intel and decided the time was right to launch a terrorist attack on Israel and thereby add another crippling effect to the world's oil Supply-Chain business reliance.

Just sayin'.

Biden and the Dems had one 2 year window of opportunity to do whatever might be necessary to pull us and much of the world out of that historic and unprecedented Great Repub Economic Disaster.

Given the pattern for a new POTUS' Party's prospects in its first midterm election there would be no going back to the well after November 2022 if, perchance, that Fairy Tale "just right" porridge for its moment in time back in early 2021 or, God forbid, "too cold" too little porridge failed to meet even that moment.

LOL. Even though that midterm only saw a Pink Tinkle by hook and by crook majority in the House, does anyone of sane mind think for one minute those handful of Repub loons would help America by adding a tad more to the post-Repub Disaster stimulus after those unpredictable.

Events came about rather than do everything in their power to Crash the USA economy all over again?

Now, we're really telling impossible Fairy Tales if you believe such a thing.

God bless Biden and the Dems for being smart enough, brave enough and patriotic enough to put MORE into the system to deal. With the latest historic, unprecedented Great Repub Disaster than was merely necessary to put a bandaid on it in mid 2021, willing to shoulder all the heavy lifting and assume all the political risk to do as much as possible on the obvious awareness that our perpetual Repub Party problems had not been solved and had not gone away on January 20,2021 never to return.

Interesting thoughts there Tooms. I'll summarize for those who don't have time to read the whole piece.

Trump is a mass murderer.

Trump converted a manageable regional epidemic into a worldwide pandemic.

The main stream media is pro Republican

Larry Summers is pro Republican and enjoys the company of right wingers

Republicans like to ride ponies and clear brush

The correct name for SARS-CoV-2 is not the COVID-19 virus or the China Virus. It's the Trump Virus.

Putin possibly got hold of accurate, written U.S. intelligence from Trump that motivated him to invade Ukraine. Thus the run up of the price of oil in 2022 was Trump's fault.

Hamas possibly got hold of stolen USA intelligence leaked by Trump that motivated it to invade Israel. That will result in a crippling effect on the world's oil supply chain.

The 2020 recession should be labeled as the Great Republican Economic Disaster, even though inflation adjusted GDP ended 2020 only 1.1% below where it started, despite the worst pandemic since 1918. And even though all spending in 2020 had to pass muster with Nancy Pelosi and Democrats.

The TCJA passed by Republicans costs 1.5 trillion every 10 years into infinity. (The provisions actually mostly expire at the end of 2025, although the corporate tax cut stays around. Even Biden doesn't want to take the corporate rate back to where it was before the TCJA. The TCJA "costs" nothing. Rather it reduces the amount government takes out of the pockets of taxpayers. Finally I have to give you credit for using the $1.5 trillion Congressional Budget Office estimate, instead of the $2.5 trillion you were quoting earlier.)

Economic performance is somehow related to the temperature of porridge

yada yada

[EihTooms]

Well Spidy, if you're a Democrat, that's one you need to explain. It was Democrat Economist's Paul Krugman's idea. His brilliant plan, adopted by some Congressional Democrats, was to to use the trillion dollar coin as a way to avoid negotiating with Republicans over an increase in the debt-ceiling limit. Rashida Tlaib, Democratic Congresswoman, resuscitated the idea in 2020 as a way to pay $2,000 a month to every man, woman and child resident in America during COVID, and $1,000 a month thereafter.

This sounds a lot like Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), a favorite of progressives that's worked so well in places like Venezuela and Zimbabwe, where government just prints new money to fund spending, while ignoring the effect on deficits and the national debt. Apparently the idea appeals to you and Tooms as well, as you have no fear of deficits and debt. Or believe Joe Biden's crock that we can pay for everything he wants, and only have to raise taxes on households making more than $400,000 per year.

The first politics-related proposal of the idea came from one of your beloved Third Party candidates, Bo Gritz, back in 1992.

And, as one might expect, Gritz' Populist Party agenda sure sounds a whole lot more like a Repub or a self-delusional pro-Repub "Bothdider" than anything remotely like The Democratic Party:

Bo Gritz

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz

In the 1992 election, after failing to secure the U.S. Taxpayers' Party's nomination, Gritz ran for President of the United States, again under the Populist Party banner. His campaign slogan was "God, Guns and Gritz", and he published a political manifesto titled "The Bill of Gritz" (a play on his last name rhyming with "rights"). He advocated for staunch opposition to what he termed "global government" and the "New World Order", called for an end to all foreign aid, and proposed the abolition of the federal income tax and the Federal Reserve System. During the campaign, Gritz openly declared the United States to be a "Christian Nation", asserting that the country's legal statutes "should reflect unashamed acceptance of Almighty God and His Laws."
.....
As part of his campaign, Gritz proposed an idea to pay off the National debt by minting a coin at the Treasury and sending it to the Federal Reserve, a concept that predates the 2012 trillion-dollar coin idea. Among other proposals, the "Bill of Gritz" called for the complete closure of the border with Mexico, and the dissolution of the Federal Reserve.

The only connection to the idea with Paul Krugman that I have yet found was when he was asked if such an idea was legal.

Obviously, his being asked about it would strongly suggest he did not come up with the idea himself. Along with other economists, he responded that it would indeed be legal to do such a thing. Later, he wrote an opinion piece proposing that having such a coin on hand might not be a bad idea in order to fend off the even worse idea by Repubs to continually drive up the debt with nothing positive to show for it then threaten to Dine and Dash on their bill like the Deadbeats they are and allow the USA Government to default on their debt.

[Tiny 12]

The Trillion dollar coin?

Now that was funny, but so true! And I do so enjoy a good "Fairy Tale". If (when) it fails, perhaps we can use it as a "Cautionary Tale/Fable"?

Speaking of "fairy tales", what ever happened to the one about the "One (1) Trillion dollar coin" (Repubs love to mint in their heads), that could simply payoff the federal debt?

I seem to hear this one, every time a Repub President takes office and then proceeds to astronomically run up the federal debt, on their way to yet another Repub recession, and every Repub and their dog, seems to think that this mystical coin is the answer.

Any Repub economists (or anyone really), care to explain how this would work?

Well Spidy, if you're a Democrat, that's one you need to explain. It was Democrat Economist's Paul Krugman's idea. His brilliant plan, adopted by some Congressional Democrats, was to to use the trillion dollar coin as a way to avoid negotiating with Republicans over an increase in the debt-ceiling limit. Rashida Tlaib, Democratic Congresswoman, resuscitated the idea in 2020 as a way to pay $2,000 a month to every man, woman and child resident in America during COVID, and $1,000 a month thereafter.

This sounds a lot like Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), a favorite of progressives that's worked so well in places like Venezuela and Zimbabwe, where government just prints new money to fund spending, while ignoring the effect on deficits and the national debt. Apparently the idea appeals to you and Tooms as well, as you have no fear of deficits and debt. Or believe Joe Biden's crock that we can pay for everything he wants, and only have to raise taxes on households making more than $400,000 per year.

[Tiny 12]

It was to balance out the snouts in the trough that Trump gave to all his mates with his stimulus. Biden just balanced it out giving money to the less wealthy. No it wasn't needed just as the Trump stimulus was 90% wasted it was to support his base.

You're right that a lot of the Trump/Pelosi stimulus spending in 2020 went to people who didn't need it. Many businesses took out Paycheck Protection Program Loans and didn't pay them back, even though they could have. Also the limits for some of the COVID payments were set too high. A couple could make $150,000 and still get a check, although it was Pelosi and Democrats arguing for higher limits, not the Republicans. The stimulus checks should have been need-based IMHO, not sent to people who were still employed or businesses that were still in good shape.

And yes Trump and Pelosi overdid it. They would have mailed out $1900 checks to most Americans in December of 2020 if McConnell and Senate Republicans hadn't held them back. That was at a time when household savings were already running over 100% of the pre-COVID level.

Biden and other Democratic politicians however "remedied" the restraint of the Senate Republicans with their American Rescue Plan (ARP) and subsequent legislation, which created the Mother of All Snouts. Much of the new spending after the ARP went to Biden's mates, like the green energy companies, chip manufacturers, and politicians who had plenty of delicious Biden pork to hand out through infrastructure spending. Infrastructure spending directed by Washington D.C., not the communities and states who are best placed to do that.

[GDreams]

You're a true believer Tooms. Nobody is arguing that government shouldn't provide stimulus during recessions. The problem was the quantity and the timing. By the time Democrats sent out free Biden money in March, 2021, we were already out of recession and GDP was about back to pre-COVID levels. That's also when Democrats passed the $1. 9 trillion American Rescue Plan. It was 9% of GDP! Larry Summers, prominent Democratic Party economist, said the stimulus was three times the output shortfall, presumably meaning three times the amount by which GDP was short of what it would have been without COVID. Jason Furman, another prominent Democratic Party economist, more or less agreed with him.

It was to balance out the snouts in the trough that Trump gave to all his mates with his stimulus. Biden just balanced it out giving money to the less wealthy. No it wasn't needed just as the Trump stimulus was 90% wasted it was to support his base.

[EihTooms]

Now that was funny, but so true! And I do so enjoy a good "Fairy Tale". If (when) it fails, perhaps we can use it as a "Cautionary Tale/Fable"?

Speaking of "fairy tales", what ever happened to the one about the "One (1) Trillion dollar coin" (Repubs love to mint in their heads), that could simply payoff the federal debt?

I seem to hear this one, every time a Repub President takes office and then proceeds to astronomically run up the federal debt, on their way to yet another Repub recession, and every Repub and their dog, seems to think that this mystical coin is the answer.

Any Repub economists (or anyone really), care to explain how this would work?

They are all Repub Fairy Tales. Their entire Supply-Side / Trickle-Down, Little or No Attention to Regulations = Superior Economic Success crap is a total Repub Fairy Tale. The lazy MSM spin that "Carter ruined the economy and Reagan saved it" crap is a total Repub Fairy Tale.

We know what happens when the classic Repub Do Nothingness or Repub Do The Exact Wrong Thing agenda is followed.

We got the Great Repub Crash and Depression in the late 1920's / early 1930's, Eisenhower's 3, count 'them, 3 recessions in just eight years, Nixon / Ford's practically no growth and jobs creation at all, Reagan's Great Repub Recession and whopping ten consecutive months of 10%+ Unemployment Rates, GHW Bush's horrific jobs creation record. GW Bush's Great Repub Recession and even more horrific jobs creation record, Trump's historic mass murders and Global Supply-Chain destruction disaster thanks to his criminal negligence, ignoring all expert warnings and year long lies to convert a likely manageable regional endemic into the Trump's Pandemic it became to produce negative jobs creation.

Thar was after 4 miserable Trump Stewardshop years and even after his coasting on the terrific Obama-Biden economic trajectories handed to him in his first year came to an end when he passed that $1. 5 Trillion net cost every 10 years into infinity legislation that was already producing fewer jobs with it than without it.

So what was Larry Summers' brilliant and admittedly often dead wrong ideas for what Biden and the Dems were supposed to do about still another historic, unprecedented Repub Economic Disaster handed to a Dem to fix until, oh, May, June or July 2021 when we would get the final GDP numbers for "March" of that one year?

Repub-style Know Nothing Do Nothing or Do The Wrong Thing?

Go fishing, play golf, ride ponies, clear brush down at the ranch?

And how would pro-Repub MSM have reacted to that after doing whatever they could to blame Biden and the Dems for the Repub Economic Disaster they inherited, as usual?

What frame of mind would that have put into business and jobs creation domestically and around the world?

Worse, let's say Summers' and his fellow pro Repub Bothsiders and outright Wingers got their Fairy Tale wish and whatever Biden and the Dems put into the system for this particular historic and unprecedented Great Repub Policy and Stewardship Disaster turned out to be exactly right to the dollar.

For its one moment in time, that is.

Then what happens if there is a resurgence of a new and widely spread variation of Trump's Pandemic virus after that "And they all lived happily ever after" Repub Fairy Tale ending?

Guess what, that happened. No one knew how bad it would be or if it would be even worse that the first Trump's Pandemic virus.

Oh and how about if, say, some Loon like Putin somehow mysteriously got privy to accurate, in writing USA Intel from, say, some Repub former potus Loon in 2021 and decided the following year was the right time for an exceedingly stupid invasion of Ukraine, thereby produce the crippling of an oil Supply-Chain for the entire Globe to enjoy?

And as long as we're on that topic, how about if the powers that be somehow mysteriously also got privy to some of that stolen USA Intel and decided the time was right to launch a terrorist attack on Israel and thereby add another crippling effect to the world's oil Supply-Chain business reliance.

Just sayin'.

Biden and the Dems had one 2 year window of opportunity to do whatever might be necessary to pull us and much of the world out of that historic and unprecedented Great Repub Economic Disaster.

Given the pattern for a new POTUS' Party's prospects in its first midterm election there would be no going back to the well after November 2022 if, perchance, that Fairy Tale "just right" porridge for its moment in time back in early 2021 or, God forbid, "too cold" too little porridge failed to meet even that moment.

LOL. Even though that midterm only saw a Pink Tinkle by hook and by crook majority in the House, does anyone of sane mind think for one minute those handful of Repub loons would help America by adding a tad more to the post-Repub Disaster stimulus after those unpredictable.

Events came about rather than do everything in their power to Crash the USA economy all over again?

Now, we're really telling impossible Fairy Tales if you believe such a thing.

God bless Biden and the Dems for being smart enough, brave enough and patriotic enough to put MORE into the system to deal. With the latest historic, unprecedented Great Repub Disaster than was merely necessary to put a bandaid on it in mid 2021, willing to shoulder all the heavy lifting and assume all the political risk to do as much as possible on the obvious awareness that our perpetual Repub Party problems had not been solved and had not gone away on January 20,2021 never to return.