American Politics

**CrowExplorer** · 10-13-23 00:45

Originally Posted by Spidy [View Original Post]

Wasn't really expecting, the sterile clinical (XX and XY chromosomal) definition as a response, since that's a given. But Okay...fair enough response/rebuttal w/r to answering the question(s).

Somehow though, I was expecting more then just a sterile clinical definition, since I also consider, that there is a definite societal (or social) aspect to the question(s), regarding "what is a woman?" or "what is a man?". One that does bring to the table, a more nuanced or more complex definition of "what is a woman/man?"

Yeah, I could be over thinking it, but considering that we do now live in a more complex society and we're no longer living in the dark ages, "a deeper dive" into said questions, should be warranted.

So I'm okay, with just a simple clinical definition, albeit a bit limited in scope/definition, to what I consider a more complex question, in an ever growing complex society. Why else would many of us keep calling into question, one another's identity? And thusly, perpetrate and weaponize "Identity Politics"?

For Example:

Why are you so {...fill-in-the blank}? Or
Why aren't you more like {...fill-in-the blank}? Or

Why do you (assuming they actual do) hate your own race/people (white, black, yellow, red, purple..etc)? As if there's ONE STANDARD WAY to live, think, believe, work, play and thrive in life given your cultural heritage as a member of a certain race, sex, culture, ethnic group, economic group, social group...etc.

Do you NOT KNOW if your a man or women? Or
Do you NOT KNOW if your a {...fill-in-the blank}?

Is it all just genuine curiosity or hateful rhetoric, meant to embarrass, insult and humiliate?

StoryBook Hour:
With regards to kids learning, reading and attending a very cool "StoryBook Hour" vs. attending a "Nazi" book-banning/booking-burning bonfire, I'll take "StoryBook Hour", 24/7/365, each and every time.

But as you've stated, clinically they are still men, despite what Repubs and Christian right want you believe or think...RIGHT!

I don't like the idea of children being indoctrinated by any belief system, but I really hate the idea of children being exposed to sexual freaks. Just. Why? Are you just trying to piss people off? "look, we're coming for your children!" It's like you want people to vote the other way.

I miss the 90's. When you'd see these men dressed as women on Jerry Springer and everyone would have a good laugh. Nobody was pretending the emperor had clothes, we all knew it was a sex kink with these people.

It's definitely only the left who are pretending "trans women are real women". Everyone else knows that it's a dude wearing a dress.

The number one reason I can never get on board with the left, is that they are complete moral fascists right now. They love to create new trendy "victim groups", then chastise anyone who doesn't pay the current victim group proper homage. And outright attack anyone who dares to disagree with their moralizing.

They are also the number one enemies of free speech right now. Every leftie I know is pro-censorship. They tell me we need to "stop the spread of misinformation", and "only approved experts should be allowed to have an opinion on a given subject".

It's really too bad, I actually agree with the left on a few topics, but they're like that annoying asshole at the campground who goes around telling all the other campers what the rules are, and looks for infractions to complain to management about.

**Tiny 12** · 10-13-23 00:26

Originally Posted by EihTooms [View Original Post]

They are all Repub Fairy Tales. Their entire Supply-Side / Trickle-Down, Little or No Attention to Regulations = Superior Economic Success crap is a total Repub Fairy Tale. The lazy MSM spin that "Carter ruined the economy and Reagan saved it" crap is a total Repub Fairy Tale.

We know what happens when the classic Repub Do Nothingness or Repub Do The Exact Wrong Thing agenda is followed.

We got the Great Repub Crash and Depression in the late 1920's / early 1930's, Eisenhower's 3, count 'them, 3 recessions in just eight years, Nixon / Ford's practically no growth and jobs creation at all, Reagan's Great Repub Recession and whopping ten consecutive months of 10%+ Unemployment Rates, GHW Bush's horrific jobs creation record. GW Bush's Great Repub Recession and even more horrific jobs creation record, Trump's historic mass murders and Global Supply-Chain destruction disaster thanks to his criminal negligence, ignoring all expert warnings and year long lies to convert a likely manageable regional endemic into the Trump's Pandemic it became to produce negative jobs creation.

Thar was after 4 miserable Trump Stewardshop years and even after his coasting on the terrific Obama-Biden economic trajectories handed to him in his first year came to an end when he passed that $1. 5 Trillion net cost every 10 years into infinity legislation that was already producing fewer jobs with it than without it.

So what was Larry Summers' brilliant and admittedly often dead wrong ideas for what Biden and the Dems were supposed to do about still another historic, unprecedented Repub Economic Disaster handed to a Dem to fix until, oh, May, June or July 2021 when we would get the final GDP numbers for "March" of that one year?

Repub-style Know Nothing Do Nothing or Do The Wrong Thing?

Go fishing, play golf, ride ponies, clear brush down at the ranch?

And how would pro-Repub MSM have reacted to that after doing whatever they could to blame Biden and the Dems for the Repub Economic Disaster they inherited, as usual?

What frame of mind would that have put into business and jobs creation domestically and around the world?

Worse, let's say Summers' and his fellow pro Repub Bothsiders and outright Wingers got their Fairy Tale wish and whatever Biden and the Dems put into the system for this particular historic and unprecedented Great Repub Policy and Stewardship Disaster turned out to be exactly right to the dollar.

For its one moment in time, that is.

Then what happens if there is a resurgence of a new and widely spread variation of Trump's Pandemic virus after that "And they all lived happily ever after" Repub Fairy Tale ending?

Guess what, that happened. No one knew how bad it would be or if it would be even worse that the first Trump's Pandemic virus.

Oh and how about if, say, some Loon like Putin somehow mysteriously got privy to accurate, in writing USA Intel from, say, some Repub former potus Loon in 2021 and decided the following year was the right time for an exceedingly stupid invasion of Ukraine, thereby produce the crippling of an oil Supply-Chain for the entire Globe to enjoy?

And as long as we're on that topic, how about if the powers that be somehow mysteriously also got privy to some of that stolen USA Intel and decided the time was right to launch a terrorist attack on Israel and thereby add another crippling effect to the world's oil Supply-Chain business reliance.

Just sayin'.

Biden and the Dems had one 2 year window of opportunity to do whatever might be necessary to pull us and much of the world out of that historic and unprecedented Great Repub Economic Disaster.

Given the pattern for a new POTUS' Party's prospects in its first midterm election there would be no going back to the well after November 2022 if, perchance, that Fairy Tale "just right" porridge for its moment in time back in early 2021 or, God forbid, "too cold" too little porridge failed to meet even that moment.

LOL. Even though that midterm only saw a Pink Tinkle by hook and by crook majority in the House, does anyone of sane mind think for one minute those handful of Repub loons would help America by adding a tad more to the post-Repub Disaster stimulus after those unpredictable.

Events came about rather than do everything in their power to Crash the USA economy all over again?

Now, we're really telling impossible Fairy Tales if you believe such a thing.

God bless Biden and the Dems for being smart enough, brave enough and patriotic enough to put MORE into the system to deal. With the latest historic, unprecedented Great Repub Disaster than was merely necessary to put a bandaid on it in mid 2021, willing to shoulder all the heavy lifting and assume all the political risk to do as much as possible on the obvious awareness that our perpetual Repub Party problems had not been solved and had not gone away on January 20,2021 never to return.

Interesting thoughts there Tooms. I'll summarize for those who don't have time to read the whole piece.

Trump is a mass murderer.

Trump converted a manageable regional epidemic into a worldwide pandemic.

The main stream media is pro Republican

Larry Summers is pro Republican and enjoys the company of right wingers

Republicans like to ride ponies and clear brush

The correct name for SARS-CoV-2 is not the COVID-19 virus or the China Virus. It's the Trump Virus.

Putin possibly got hold of accurate, written U.S. intelligence from Trump that motivated him to invade Ukraine. Thus the run up of the price of oil in 2022 was Trump's fault.

Hamas possibly got hold of stolen USA intelligence leaked by Trump that motivated it to invade Israel. That will result in a crippling effect on the world's oil supply chain.

The 2020 recession should be labeled as the Great Republican Economic Disaster, even though inflation adjusted GDP ended 2020 only 1.1% below where it started, despite the worst pandemic since 1918. And even though all spending in 2020 had to pass muster with Nancy Pelosi and Democrats.

The TCJA passed by Republicans costs 1.5 trillion every 10 years into infinity. (The provisions actually mostly expire at the end of 2025, although the corporate tax cut stays around. Even Biden doesn't want to take the corporate rate back to where it was before the TCJA. The TCJA "costs" nothing. Rather it reduces the amount government takes out of the pockets of taxpayers. Finally I have to give you credit for using the $1.5 trillion Congressional Budget Office estimate, instead of the $2.5 trillion you were quoting earlier.)

Economic performance is somehow related to the temperature of porridge

yada yada

**EihTooms** · 10-12-23 20:44

Originally Posted by Tiny12 [View Original Post]

Well Spidy, if you're a Democrat, that's one you need to explain. It was Democrat Economist's Paul Krugman's idea. His brilliant plan, adopted by some Congressional Democrats, was to to use the trillion dollar coin as a way to avoid negotiating with Republicans over an increase in the debt-ceiling limit. Rashida Tlaib, Democratic Congresswoman, resuscitated the idea in 2020 as a way to pay $2,000 a month to every man, woman and child resident in America during COVID, and $1,000 a month thereafter.

This sounds a lot like Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), a favorite of progressives that's worked so well in places like Venezuela and Zimbabwe, where government just prints new money to fund spending, while ignoring the effect on deficits and the national debt. Apparently the idea appeals to you and Tooms as well, as you have no fear of deficits and debt. Or believe Joe Biden's crock that we can pay for everything he wants, and only have to raise taxes on households making more than $400,000 per year.

The first politics-related proposal of the idea came from one of your beloved Third Party candidates, Bo Gritz, back in 1992.

And, as one might expect, Gritz' Populist Party agenda sure sounds a whole lot more like a Repub or a self-delusional pro-Repub "Bothdider" than anything remotely like The Democratic Party:

Bo Gritz

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz

In the 1992 election, after failing to secure the U.S. Taxpayers' Party's nomination, Gritz ran for President of the United States, again under the Populist Party banner. His campaign slogan was "God, Guns and Gritz", and he published a political manifesto titled "The Bill of Gritz" (a play on his last name rhyming with "rights"). He advocated for staunch opposition to what he termed "global government" and the "New World Order", called for an end to all foreign aid, and proposed the abolition of the federal income tax and the Federal Reserve System. During the campaign, Gritz openly declared the United States to be a "Christian Nation", asserting that the country's legal statutes "should reflect unashamed acceptance of Almighty God and His Laws."
.....
As part of his campaign, Gritz proposed an idea to pay off the National debt by minting a coin at the Treasury and sending it to the Federal Reserve, a concept that predates the 2012 trillion-dollar coin idea. Among other proposals, the "Bill of Gritz" called for the complete closure of the border with Mexico, and the dissolution of the Federal Reserve.

The only connection to the idea with Paul Krugman that I have yet found was when he was asked if such an idea was legal.

Obviously, his being asked about it would strongly suggest he did not come up with the idea himself. Along with other economists, he responded that it would indeed be legal to do such a thing. Later, he wrote an opinion piece proposing that having such a coin on hand might not be a bad idea in order to fend off the even worse idea by Repubs to continually drive up the debt with nothing positive to show for it then threaten to Dine and Dash on their bill like the Deadbeats they are and allow the USA Government to default on their debt.

**Tiny 12** · 10-12-23 19:09

Originally Posted by Spidy [View Original Post]

The Trillion dollar coin?

Now that was funny, but so true! And I do so enjoy a good "Fairy Tale". If (when) it fails, perhaps we can use it as a "Cautionary Tale/Fable"?

Speaking of "fairy tales", what ever happened to the one about the "One (1) Trillion dollar coin" (Repubs love to mint in their heads), that could simply payoff the federal debt?

I seem to hear this one, every time a Repub President takes office and then proceeds to astronomically run up the federal debt, on their way to yet another Repub recession, and every Repub and their dog, seems to think that this mystical coin is the answer.

Any Repub economists (or anyone really), care to explain how this would work?

Well Spidy, if you're a Democrat, that's one you need to explain. It was Democrat Economist's Paul Krugman's idea. His brilliant plan, adopted by some Congressional Democrats, was to to use the trillion dollar coin as a way to avoid negotiating with Republicans over an increase in the debt-ceiling limit. Rashida Tlaib, Democratic Congresswoman, resuscitated the idea in 2020 as a way to pay $2,000 a month to every man, woman and child resident in America during COVID, and $1,000 a month thereafter.

This sounds a lot like Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), a favorite of progressives that's worked so well in places like Venezuela and Zimbabwe, where government just prints new money to fund spending, while ignoring the effect on deficits and the national debt. Apparently the idea appeals to you and Tooms as well, as you have no fear of deficits and debt. Or believe Joe Biden's crock that we can pay for everything he wants, and only have to raise taxes on households making more than $400,000 per year.

**Tiny 12** · 10-12-23 18:54

Originally Posted by GDreams [View Original Post]

It was to balance out the snouts in the trough that Trump gave to all his mates with his stimulus. Biden just balanced it out giving money to the less wealthy. No it wasn't needed just as the Trump stimulus was 90% wasted it was to support his base.

You're right that a lot of the Trump/Pelosi stimulus spending in 2020 went to people who didn't need it. Many businesses took out Paycheck Protection Program Loans and didn't pay them back, even though they could have. Also the limits for some of the COVID payments were set too high. A couple could make $150,000 and still get a check, although it was Pelosi and Democrats arguing for higher limits, not the Republicans. The stimulus checks should have been need-based IMHO, not sent to people who were still employed or businesses that were still in good shape.

And yes Trump and Pelosi overdid it. They would have mailed out $1900 checks to most Americans in December of 2020 if McConnell and Senate Republicans hadn't held them back. That was at a time when household savings were already running over 100% of the pre-COVID level.

Biden and other Democratic politicians however "remedied" the restraint of the Senate Republicans with their American Rescue Plan (ARP) and subsequent legislation, which created the Mother of All Snouts. Much of the new spending after the ARP went to Biden's mates, like the green energy companies, chip manufacturers, and politicians who had plenty of delicious Biden pork to hand out through infrastructure spending. Infrastructure spending directed by Washington D.C., not the communities and states who are best placed to do that.

**GDreams** · 10-12-23 10:09

Originally Posted by Tiny12 [View Original Post]

You're a true believer Tooms. Nobody is arguing that government shouldn't provide stimulus during recessions. The problem was the quantity and the timing. By the time Democrats sent out free Biden money in March, 2021, we were already out of recession and GDP was about back to pre-COVID levels. That's also when Democrats passed the $1. 9 trillion American Rescue Plan. It was 9% of GDP! Larry Summers, prominent Democratic Party economist, said the stimulus was three times the output shortfall, presumably meaning three times the amount by which GDP was short of what it would have been without COVID. Jason Furman, another prominent Democratic Party economist, more or less agreed with him.

It was to balance out the snouts in the trough that Trump gave to all his mates with his stimulus. Biden just balanced it out giving money to the less wealthy. No it wasn't needed just as the Trump stimulus was 90% wasted it was to support his base.

**EihTooms** · 10-12-23 07:50

Originally Posted by Spidy [View Original Post]

Now that was funny, but so true! And I do so enjoy a good "Fairy Tale". If (when) it fails, perhaps we can use it as a "Cautionary Tale/Fable"?

Speaking of "fairy tales", what ever happened to the one about the "One (1) Trillion dollar coin" (Repubs love to mint in their heads), that could simply payoff the federal debt?

I seem to hear this one, every time a Repub President takes office and then proceeds to astronomically run up the federal debt, on their way to yet another Repub recession, and every Repub and their dog, seems to think that this mystical coin is the answer.

Any Repub economists (or anyone really), care to explain how this would work?

They are all Repub Fairy Tales. Their entire Supply-Side / Trickle-Down, Little or No Attention to Regulations = Superior Economic Success crap is a total Repub Fairy Tale. The lazy MSM spin that "Carter ruined the economy and Reagan saved it" crap is a total Repub Fairy Tale.

We know what happens when the classic Repub Do Nothingness or Repub Do The Exact Wrong Thing agenda is followed.

We got the Great Repub Crash and Depression in the late 1920's / early 1930's, Eisenhower's 3, count 'them, 3 recessions in just eight years, Nixon / Ford's practically no growth and jobs creation at all, Reagan's Great Repub Recession and whopping ten consecutive months of 10%+ Unemployment Rates, GHW Bush's horrific jobs creation record. GW Bush's Great Repub Recession and even more horrific jobs creation record, Trump's historic mass murders and Global Supply-Chain destruction disaster thanks to his criminal negligence, ignoring all expert warnings and year long lies to convert a likely manageable regional endemic into the Trump's Pandemic it became to produce negative jobs creation.

Thar was after 4 miserable Trump Stewardshop years and even after his coasting on the terrific Obama-Biden economic trajectories handed to him in his first year came to an end when he passed that $1. 5 Trillion net cost every 10 years into infinity legislation that was already producing fewer jobs with it than without it.

So what was Larry Summers' brilliant and admittedly often dead wrong ideas for what Biden and the Dems were supposed to do about still another historic, unprecedented Repub Economic Disaster handed to a Dem to fix until, oh, May, June or July 2021 when we would get the final GDP numbers for "March" of that one year?

Repub-style Know Nothing Do Nothing or Do The Wrong Thing?

Go fishing, play golf, ride ponies, clear brush down at the ranch?

And how would pro-Repub MSM have reacted to that after doing whatever they could to blame Biden and the Dems for the Repub Economic Disaster they inherited, as usual?

What frame of mind would that have put into business and jobs creation domestically and around the world?

Worse, let's say Summers' and his fellow pro Repub Bothsiders and outright Wingers got their Fairy Tale wish and whatever Biden and the Dems put into the system for this particular historic and unprecedented Great Repub Policy and Stewardship Disaster turned out to be exactly right to the dollar.

For its one moment in time, that is.

Then what happens if there is a resurgence of a new and widely spread variation of Trump's Pandemic virus after that "And they all lived happily ever after" Repub Fairy Tale ending?

Guess what, that happened. No one knew how bad it would be or if it would be even worse that the first Trump's Pandemic virus.

Oh and how about if, say, some Loon like Putin somehow mysteriously got privy to accurate, in writing USA Intel from, say, some Repub former potus Loon in 2021 and decided the following year was the right time for an exceedingly stupid invasion of Ukraine, thereby produce the crippling of an oil Supply-Chain for the entire Globe to enjoy?

And as long as we're on that topic, how about if the powers that be somehow mysteriously also got privy to some of that stolen USA Intel and decided the time was right to launch a terrorist attack on Israel and thereby add another crippling effect to the world's oil Supply-Chain business reliance.

Just sayin'.

Biden and the Dems had one 2 year window of opportunity to do whatever might be necessary to pull us and much of the world out of that historic and unprecedented Great Repub Economic Disaster.

Given the pattern for a new POTUS' Party's prospects in its first midterm election there would be no going back to the well after November 2022 if, perchance, that Fairy Tale "just right" porridge for its moment in time back in early 2021 or, God forbid, "too cold" too little porridge failed to meet even that moment.

LOL. Even though that midterm only saw a Pink Tinkle by hook and by crook majority in the House, does anyone of sane mind think for one minute those handful of Repub loons would help America by adding a tad more to the post-Repub Disaster stimulus after those unpredictable.

Events came about rather than do everything in their power to Crash the USA economy all over again?

Now, we're really telling impossible Fairy Tales if you believe such a thing.

God bless Biden and the Dems for being smart enough, brave enough and patriotic enough to put MORE into the system to deal. With the latest historic, unprecedented Great Repub Disaster than was merely necessary to put a bandaid on it in mid 2021, willing to shoulder all the heavy lifting and assume all the political risk to do as much as possible on the obvious awareness that our perpetual Repub Party problems had not been solved and had not gone away on January 20,2021 never to return.

**Spidy** · 10-12-23 03:31

Originally Posted by EihTooms [View Original Post]

LOL. So it's the Goldilocks Fairy Tale now.

Oh I see. Well, the next time an incoming Repub is handed a historic, unprecedented economic disaster from an outgoing Dem that only a wannabe Repub Hoover numbskull would sit back and rely on to resolve itself in a straight line, I am sure he will show all of us how to provide the just right, not too hot and not too cold temperature of porridge to keep the Great Recovery no Repub has ever produced from the Great Economic Disaster no Dem has ever produced going just right for the next few years.

But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for even 1 factor in that impossible scenario to ever come about.

Maybe you and Larry can write a sweet little Fairy Tale about such a thing and close it with that "And they all lived happily ever after" ending you imagine would ever have been the case this time.

Now that was funny, but so true! And I do so enjoy a good "Fairy Tale". If (when) it fails, perhaps we can use it as a "Cautionary Tale/Fable"?

Speaking of "fairy tales", what ever happened to the one about the "One (1) Trillion dollar coin" (Repubs love to mint in their heads), that could simply payoff the federal debt?

I seem to hear this one, every time a Repub President takes office and then proceeds to astronomically run up the federal debt, on their way to yet another Repub recession, and every Repub and their dog, seems to think that this mystical coin is the answer.

Any Repub economists (or anyone really), care to explain how this would work?

**EihTooms** · 10-11-23 23:42

Originally Posted by Tiny12 [View Original Post]

You're a true believer Tooms. Nobody is arguing that government shouldn't provide stimulus during recessions. The problem was the quantity and the timing. By the time Democrats sent out free Biden money in March, 2021, we were already out of recession and GDP was about back to pre-COVID levels. That's also when Democrats passed the $1. 9 trillion American Rescue Plan. It was 9% of GDP! Larry Summers, prominent Democratic Party economist, said the stimulus was three times the output shortfall, presumably meaning three times the amount by which GDP was short of what it would have been without COVID. Jason Furman, another prominent Democratic Party economist, more or less agreed with him.

The federal debt held by the public is headed towards dangerous levels, considering the government has to pay around 5% per annum to borrow now, instead of 1% or 2% before. Interest payments on the federal debt will consume around 5% of GDP at current interest rates!

Yes, Republicans were complicit. George W. Bush's war in Iraq and the Republicans failure to hold back spending when they controlled the government in 2017 and 2018 illustrate that. But Biden and Democrats took reckless spending to a whole new level, legislating over $5 trillion in unfunded spending in 2021 and 2022, after we'd already recovered from the COVID induced recession. Not the Trump induced recession, as you argue.

And yes, GDP growth during the Biden Administration was higher than it would have been without the profligate spending. But like for our friends who load up on debt to support an extravagant lifestyle, the ending won't be pretty. It may take a while, and you may be dead by then, but a reckoning is coming.

Oh I see. Well, the next time an incoming Repub is handed a historic, unprecedented economic disaster from an outgoing Dem that only a wannabe Repub Hoover numbskull would sit back and rely on to resolve itself in a straight line, I am sure he will show all of us how to provide the just right, not too hot and not too cold temperature of porridge to keep the Great Recovery no Repub has ever produced from the Great Economic Disaster no Dem has ever produced going just right for the next few years.

But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for even 1 factor in that impossible scenario to ever come about.

Maybe you and Larry can write a sweet little Fairy Tale about such a thing and close it with that "And they all lived happily ever after" ending you imagine would ever have been the case this time.

**Tiny 12** · 10-11-23 18:52

Originally Posted by EihTooms [View Original Post]

I offer the same advice to you that I offered to Elvis in a previous post; if you are annoyed by the spending Democrats have to put into the system to pull us out of those Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions, Massive Repub Jobs Destruction and Mysterious, Mystical Great Repub "Once in a Hundred Years" Repeatedly Wild Coincidence Repub Disasters along with the inevitable and unavoidable Recovery Inflation followup, simply vote straight Dem down every ballot in every election for which you are eligible to vote and pass that advice on to everyone you know.....

However, the POTUS position must be absolute in resulting in placing a Dem in the White House every time if we are to avoid all those historically persistent Great Repub Disastrous Results. The President is the single most important player in producing those results. No, not the only player and not a miracle worker who can, say, prevent a gang of numbskull Repubs in Congress from shutting down the government or repeatedly threatening to or override a logical presidential veto of some numbskull Repub scheme to destroy the economy and wipe out millions upon millions of jobs despite the Dem Captain's stewardship. Just historically the single most important player.

You're a true believer Tooms. Nobody is arguing that government shouldn't provide stimulus during recessions. The problem was the quantity and the timing. By the time Democrats sent out free Biden money in March, 2021, we were already out of recession and GDP was about back to pre-COVID levels. That's also when Democrats passed the $1. 9 trillion American Rescue Plan. It was 9% of GDP! Larry Summers, prominent Democratic Party economist, said the stimulus was three times the output shortfall, presumably meaning three times the amount by which GDP was short of what it would have been without COVID. Jason Furman, another prominent Democratic Party economist, more or less agreed with him.

The federal debt held by the public is headed towards dangerous levels, considering the government has to pay around 5% per annum to borrow now, instead of 1% or 2% before. Interest payments on the federal debt will consume around 5% of GDP at current interest rates!

Yes, Republicans were complicit. George W. Bush's war in Iraq and the Republicans failure to hold back spending when they controlled the government in 2017 and 2018 illustrate that. But Biden and Democrats took reckless spending to a whole new level, legislating over $5 trillion in unfunded spending in 2021 and 2022, after we'd already recovered from the COVID induced recession. Not the Trump induced recession, as you argue.

And yes, GDP growth during the Biden Administration was higher than it would have been without the profligate spending. But like for our friends who load up on debt to support an extravagant lifestyle, the ending won't be pretty. It may take a while, and you may be dead by then, but a reckoning is coming.

**EihTooms** · 10-11-23 06:01

Originally Posted by Tiny12 [View Original Post]

Woodrow Wilson and FDR. You're talking ancient history. But maybe at this point in history you're spot on!

Based on what went down in 2021 and 2022, Democratic Party politicians have no fear of $2 trillion deficits, a $25.5 trillion net national debt, or the $1. 3 trillion per year we'll be spending just on interest expense if rates normalize around 5% per annum. And perhaps it makes sense for them. They figure they can spend like drunken sailors to buy voters and special interests. And then hopefully Americans won't have to pay the piper for their profligate spending until they're no longer in office.

Admittedly a lot of Republicans think similarly, but the Democrats are worse. To their credit, back in May, McCarthy and House Republicans actually managed to claw back $1.5 trillion of the $5 trillion+ in unfunded spending legislated by Democrats in 2021 and 2022. That's according to Congressional Budget Office estimates:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/31/u...-spending.html

Anyway, like most economists I've been inclined to blame recessions on monetary policy, the business cycle, oil price shocks, a pandemic and the like. And believed GDP growth is a function of improvements in productivity, increased investment, growth in the labor force, changes in technology and the like. And thought tying them back solely to the party of the president was somewhat simpleminded. But yes, Joe Biden might have boosted GDP and avoided a recession! By spending like a drunken sailor! And then if a Republican wins in 2024 he'll be blamed for the recession! You Democrats are a crafty bunch!

I offer the same advice to you that I offered to Elvis in a previous post; if you are annoyed by the spending Democrats have to put into the system to pull us out of those Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions, Massive Repub Jobs Destruction and Mysterious, Mystical Great Repub "Once in a Hundred Years" Repeatedly Wild Coincidence Repub Disasters along with the inevitable and unavoidable Recovery Inflation followup, simply vote straight Dem down every ballot in every election for which you are eligible to vote and pass that advice on to everyone you know.

Then, if everyone follows that advice, neither you nor Elvis nor the rest of the country will suffer those "wildly coincidental" Repub economic policy, legislation and stewardship results that Dems are typically handed and left holding the bag to recover America from the only ways it has ever recovered from them for the past century or so.

Voila! All the problems he, you and other wingers constantly gripe, whine and complain about would be solved!

Now, I know this won't produce a perfect 100% Dem representation in the House and a perfect 100% Dem representation in the Senate. Human nature being what it is, some voters are bound to falter in their patriotic duty and vote for a numbskull Repub here and there for some numbskull reason; he'd like to have a beer with him, his Dem opponent said something vaguely stupid about the home football team or any one of the classic excuses about age, race, gender, whatever.

But the realistic goal is to merely reduce Repub representation in those houses of Congress down to a relatively harmless true minority, enough to hear their constant irrelevant griping, whining and complaining but not enough to cast a decisive vote on anything, ever.

However, the POTUS position must be absolute in resulting in placing a Dem in the White House every time if we are to avoid all those historically persistent Great Repub Disastrous Results. The President is the single most important player in producing those results. No, not the only player and not a miracle worker who can, say, prevent a gang of numbskull Repubs in Congress from shutting down the government or repeatedly threatening to or override a logical presidential veto of some numbskull Repub scheme to destroy the economy and wipe out millions upon millions of jobs despite the Dem Captain's stewardship. Just historically the single most important player.

But the 100% Dem POTUS goal can still happen even if the occasional numbskull Repub votes for a numbskull Repub candidate for whatever numbskull excuse they conjure up. So I'll grant you some leeway there.

**Tiny 12** · 10-11-23 04:46

Originally Posted by EihTooms [View Original Post]

Remember how Woodrow Wilson and FDR "bankrupted" America to win World War I and World War II? I mean, despite the fact that the brilliant Repub economic steward behind that brilliant Repub $1. 5 Trillion tab every ten years into infinity Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, Donald Trump, brilliantly dodged our involvement in "World War II", maybe just 80 years too late.

But for non World War and non Trump's Pandemic eras, nobody did a better job of "bankrupting" America than 3rd Place Ronald Reagan, almost increasing the USA debt by as much as the 4th, 5th and 6th Place presidents combined!

In fact, add Repub Reagan's non World War, non Trump's Pandemic VP's increase in the debt at 6th Place and it is even more amazing what incoming Dem President Clinton and his 1993 and 1994 Dem Congress accomplished with a "bankrupt" America. And that is on top of how they accomplished it despite Nude Grinbitch and his fellow Do Nothing, Knowing Nothing Repubs attempting everything today's Do Nothing, Know Nothing USA Economy-attacking Pink Tinkle Repubs would have attempted then to destroy the USA economy.

U.S. Debt by President: Dollar and Percentage.

https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt...entage-7371225

Woodrow Wilson and FDR. You're talking ancient history. But maybe at this point in history you're spot on!

Based on what went down in 2021 and 2022, Democratic Party politicians have no fear of $2 trillion deficits, a $25.5 trillion net national debt, or the $1. 3 trillion per year we'll be spending just on interest expense if rates normalize around 5% per annum. And perhaps it makes sense for them. They figure they can spend like drunken sailors to buy voters and special interests. And then hopefully Americans won't have to pay the piper for their profligate spending until they're no longer in office.

Admittedly a lot of Republicans think similarly, but the Democrats are worse. To their credit, back in May, McCarthy and House Republicans actually managed to claw back $1.5 trillion of the $5 trillion+ in unfunded spending legislated by Democrats in 2021 and 2022. That's according to Congressional Budget Office estimates:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/31/u...-spending.html

Anyway, like most economists I've been inclined to blame recessions on monetary policy, the business cycle, oil price shocks, a pandemic and the like. And believed GDP growth is a function of improvements in productivity, increased investment, growth in the labor force, changes in technology and the like. And thought tying them back solely to the party of the president was somewhat simpleminded. But yes, Joe Biden might have boosted GDP and avoided a recession! By spending like a drunken sailor! And then if a Republican wins in 2024 he'll be blamed for the recession! You Democrats are a crafty bunch!

**Tiny 12** · 10-11-23 04:34

Originally Posted by Spidy [View Original Post]

Difference is, Democrats aren't about to produce, enact or carry-out the latest real-life action version and go all "Kill Bill Vol #3", on his comedic ass (...kkkk!). Or AR-15, bomb, machete, knife or flag-pole him and/or lay waste to his show/business. Or burn his books for that matter.

But speaking of laying waste to Ray Epp types...take a look at your MAGA Repub's very own "Ray Epps, the clown edition", namely "MyPillow Guy" aka. Mike Lindell. It appears the Mr. Lindell is now broke and/or bankrupted, according to his lawyers, to whom he owes millions of dollars to.

MyPillow's Mike Lindell is broke, can't pay millions in legal bills
https://nypost.com/2023/10/06/mypill...bills-lawyers/

Yet another prime example of QAnon/MAGA/Repub gullible sucker cult brigade, that have hitch their wagon to the Orange Menace, and have been taken to the cleaners and/or left for dead.

Times like these, I'm reminded of Never Trumper ex-GOP Strategist, Rick Wilson's book, "Everything Trump Touches Dies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yafBxWUQNY

I believe Epps is the biggest reason Fox fired Tucker Carlson. They saw a lawsuit coming. And they were right. I'm surprised he's not suing Carlson too. And I agree, Mike Lindell's not the brightest bulb on the planet.

**Spidy** · 10-11-23 03:50

Originally Posted by Tiny 12 [View Original Post]

It's nice to see Democrats attacking Democrats. Bill Maher must be the Progressive Democrat's Ray Epps.

Difference is, Democrats aren't about to produce, enact or carry-out the latest real-life action version and go all "Kill Bill Vol #3", on his comedic ass (...kkkk!). Or AR-15, bomb, machete, knife or flag-pole him and/or lay waste to his show/business. Or burn his books for that matter.

But speaking of laying waste to Ray Epp types...take a look at your MAGA Repub's very own "Ray Epps, the clown edition", namely "MyPillow Guy" aka. Mike Lindell. It appears the Mr. Lindell is now broke and/or bankrupted, according to his lawyers, to whom he owes millions of dollars to.

MyPillow's Mike Lindell is broke, can't pay millions in legal bills
https://nypost.com/2023/10/06/mypill...bills-lawyers/

Yet another prime example of QAnon/MAGA/Repub gullible sucker cult brigade, that have hitch their wagon to the Orange Menace, and have been taken to the cleaners and/or left for dead.

Times like these, I'm reminded of Never Trumper ex-GOP Strategist, Rick Wilson's book, "Everything Trump Touches Dies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yafBxWUQNY

**Spidy** · 10-11-23 03:11

Originally Posted by CrowExplorer [View Original Post]

You need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I said that if I (a man) had a surgeon cut my dick off, and carve a nasty gash in its place, it would not magically make me a woman, it would make me a MAN with a mutilated dick.

It's the woke side that is confused. And believes men can have a "female penis".

Women have an XX chromosomal make up, they have ovaries, produce eggs, etc.

Now I can already see where you will take this. Yes. If a woman cannot produce eggs, she is still a woman.

Also, if a human is born without arms or legs, they are still a human, even though an average human is described as having two arms and two legs. This case would simply be a deviation from a standard. This human with no arms of legs is not magically a snake, or something non-human because of a defect. Just like a man does not become a different gender if his penis is missing.

This is very basic stuff.

And I'm not surprised at all that you think that transsexual story book hour is "cool". You probably support the wide use of puberty blockers as well. In the coming years we will have 18 year olds with the bodies of 10 year olds, and certain types of men can fulfill their sick fantasies legally.

Wasn't really expecting, the sterile clinical (XX and XY chromosomal) definition as a response, since that's a given. But Okay...fair enough response/rebuttal w/r to answering the question(s).

Somehow though, I was expecting more then just a sterile clinical definition, since I also consider, that there is a definite societal (or social) aspect to the question(s), regarding "what is a woman?" or "what is a man?". One that does bring to the table, a more nuanced or more complex definition of "what is a woman/man?"

Yeah, I could be over thinking it, but considering that we do now live in a more complex society and we're no longer living in the dark ages, "a deeper dive" into said questions, should be warranted.

So I'm okay, with just a simple clinical definition, albeit a bit limited in scope/definition, to what I consider a more complex question, in an ever growing complex society. Why else would many of us keep calling into question, one another's identity? And thusly, perpetrate and weaponize "Identity Politics"?

For Example:

Why are you so {...fill-in-the blank}? Or
Why aren't you more like {...fill-in-the blank}? Or

Why do you (assuming they actual do) hate your own race/people (white, black, yellow, red, purple..etc)? As if there's ONE STANDARD WAY to live, think, believe, work, play and thrive in life given your cultural heritage as a member of a certain race, sex, culture, ethnic group, economic group, social group...etc.

Do you NOT KNOW if your a man or women? Or
Do you NOT KNOW if your a {...fill-in-the blank}?

Is it all just genuine curiosity or hateful rhetoric, meant to embarrass, insult and humiliate?

StoryBook Hour:
With regards to kids learning, reading and attending a very cool "StoryBook Hour" vs. attending a "Nazi" book-banning/booking-burning bonfire, I'll take "StoryBook Hour", 24/7/365, each and every time.

But as you've stated, clinically they are still men, despite what Repubs and Christian right want you believe or think...RIGHT!