American Politics

[PVMonger]

No attempt to rebut the arguments as usual, because you cannot. Just boring, unoriginal, low-information flailing.

Let's take one issue which I already explained to you a few weeks back but you don't seem to have grasped yet. Election integrity. As I showed, the vast majority of democracies across the world require photo ID to ensure election integrity, and ban mail-in ballots because they are not secure and easy to rig. Why do you think that is? Are they all "racist"? (Hint: many of them are in majority-black countries!

Kind of hard to rebut when you didn't say which quote you were talking about.

Was it her January 6th "Stop the Steal" speech to the House? USA Rep. Elise Stefanik explained why she objected to electors from four states the in a speech on the House floor Wednesday night.

The irregularities alleged in her speech and a press release included some falsehoods and omissions, but also some true statements.

This came after the Electoral College vote was interrupted by a violent occupation of the Capitol building by pro-Donald Trump rioters who demanded Congress "stop the steal," a common Trump phrase since the Nov. 3 election won by Joe Biden.

Stefanik said voting irregularities in Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin and Michigan led to her objections. She said she hopes that further investigation would allow Americans to have greater faith in elections.

Three of her statements on irregularities were mentioned in the New York Times' live fact-checking of the session, and all were deemed "false."

Trump, his family and his political circle have alleged voter fraud and irregularities long before the November election, spending the past few years leading up to this election casting doubt on the electoral process and telling supporters to look for evidence to support their claims. Trump had said before the election that he might not accept the results if he lost.

Trump has pitched a myriad of allegations of voter fraud and election stealing on the part of Democrats. While some constitute legitimate critique, most have been based on a lack of understanding of data, unverifiable accounts and deliberate misinformation.

Stefanik said several of these irregularities were "unconstitutional." Most of them are legal through state law, which in some cases was changed due to the COVID-19 pandemic and verified by state election officials and each state's electors.

Pennsylvania.

In Pennsylvania, Stefanik said the state Supreme Court and secretary of state rewrote election law eliminating signature matching requirements. She said making this change without the state legislature was "unconstitutional."

The action described is true. Pennsylvania's Supreme Court ruled that mail-in ballot envelopes require a voter's signature but do not require that signature to be matched.

However, case law has set precedent for the constitutionality of the executive branch to change state election law and for the courts to interpret it.

Next, Stefanik wrote "they arbitrarily allowed late arriving ballots to be counted even though doing so explicitly ignored and broke state election law."

Pennsylvania's Supreme Court decided in September to let the state accept mail-in ballots received up to three days after Nov. 3 due to the COVID-19 pandemic, high rates of main-in voting and concerns over whether the USA Postal Service could deliver ballots on time.

"And duly credentialed election observers were not allowed to observe voting and the counting of the vote — another unconstitutional act," Stefanik wrote.

This is not true. Poll watchers were allowed to watch the processing of mail-in ballots, according to a court complaint from the Trump campaign. However, they were not close enough to see the writing on the ballots, which witnesses complained about. The state Supreme Court has ruled that poll watchers do not need to be close enough to see writing and stated that their view was "sufficient" in the 2020 election.

Georgia.

In Georgia, Stefanik said the secretary of state "unilaterally gutted signature matching for absentee ballots and in essence eliminated voter verification required by state election law."

This is false. Georgia required two signatures for absentee ballots. One given with a request for a ballot is compared to voter registration signatures. Another signature on the outside of the ballot envelope is then checked against both the absentee ballot application and voter registration.

This is a process Trump Chief of Staff Mark Meadows witnessed on Dec. 22 when he visited an audit site in Cobb County, Georgia, where 35 Georgia Bureau of Investigation agents and 15 state elections investigators conducted a 10% sample audit of ballots.

"In addition, more than 140,000 votes came from underage, deceased and otherwise unauthorized voters — in Fulton County alone," Stefanik wrote.

Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said after investigation, only two illegal votes from dead people have been confirmed by the state. The Trump campaign alleged specific cases of dead voters in November, only for it to be revealed that these were several instances of two people sharing the same name, one dead and the other alive and voting.

State officials said they are investigating 74 potential felons who may have voted and three cases where someone voted in Georgia and another state. State officials said no unregistered or underage people voted. Four individuals requested a ballot before turning 18, but all four turned 18 before Election Day.

Trump called Raffensperger Jan. 2 and in an hour-long harangue asked him to "find 11,780 votes" and threatening him with criminal prosecution, which legal experts say may constitute election fraud or extortion.

Stefanik has not answered questions about this call.

Wisconsin.

In Wisconsin, Stefanik said state officials circumvented a state law that required absentee voters to provide photo identification before obtaining a ballot.

"Wisconsin's very own Supreme Court reprimanded the officials for issuing 'legally incorrect' guidance," Stefanik wrote. That is true.

Wisconsin election law requires photo ID with exceptions for voters "indefinitely confined" by illness or disability. These voters are verified by signatures on their ballots. The definition of "indefinitely confined" was expanded this year because of the coronavirus.

In March a Wisconsin Supreme Court ruling indeed found that this expansion was "legally incorrect."

"It is also a fact that Wisconsin state law specifies absentee ballots may only be returned by mail or delivered in person to the clerk's office — but the City of Madison illegally held events at multiple locations to collect more than 17,000 ballots anyway," Stefanik wrote.

This citywide "Democracy in the Park" event was objected to by the Trump campaign but was upheld in state Supreme Court, with the majority opinion judges saying to invalidate these ballots would "disenfranchise" voters.

Michigan.

In Michigan, Stefanik said "many individuals signed affidavits documenting the unconstitutional irregularities they witnessed. " These allegations included officials physically blocking poll watchers from observing vote counts, the counting of late ballots and hand-stamping ballots with the previous day's date.

Signed affidavits are presented as evidence in courts where they are considered by judges and juries. Many of these affidavits Trump's legal team presented were not admissible in court because they relied on secondhand allegations, also known as hearsay. Some were not admissible because the individual had relied on miscalculations for their allegation, such as the case of a man who though a mathematical error believed the city of Detroit had a 139.29% turnout.

Though lying on a sworn affidavit is a crime, it is hard to prove as false in cases of hearsay or misunderstanding.

[Mursenary]

Firstly, o ye of low information, there are now so many ghettos in various US cities that the illegals can live entirely among their own people, speak their own language, and barely even see or interact with any of the "racist" gringos. (The fact that they have a racist term..

"Gringo usually refers to a foreigner, especially from the United States. Although it is considered an offensive term in some Spanish-speaking countries, in most Spanish-speaking countries and in Brazilian Portuguese, the term simply means "foreign."

[Paulie97]

Finally a sentiment I can agree with.

For "good reason" indeed.

Because the GOP, or its bigger part anyway, is not a political party anymore. It's a cult.

From day one the cult has been about targeting black and brown folks and wooing racists. It's backlash to the first black president, and thanks to an unpopular candidate in Hillary and her poorly run campaign, Trump was able to squeak in by conning midwesterners. And he was crying "rigged" in advance of that election just as the recent one, as the twerp lacks the cajones to admit it when he loses. We'd have gone through the same nonsense in 2016 had he lost. But yea even now the black and browns are being targeted with the stolen election lies and voter suppression efforts in state legislatures. The good news is that we are identifying it and calling it out, and on a much larger scale than in a monger forum. We are also winning, having taken back the WH, Congress, and the Senate inside of four years. That's why the fake patriots are squirming like toads. Wink.

[Paulie97]

Yes, You don't even have to wait two weeks, sometimes its just a post or two below and despite being presented with proof, indoctrinated warriors will continue to push their talking points. The vote recount and the election was stolen is now up there with Benghazi fire-fight loop shown on Fox. As to the illogical conclusion below, If America is terrible racist place why are people "breaking their necks to get there. " I will answer that for you oh uninformed one, they are doing so because they percieve it as a land that will offer them better financial opportunities than the one they are currently living in. Going there that does not negate the fact that the place is racist or that they know it is.

Simplistic fallacious arguments, as the above loaded question you obliterated is a non-sequitur and black and white thinking error / false dilemma wrapped up into one. Such is typically the product of watching too much Fox on the night shift.

Bottom line though is that they thought they were the majority but they are not. Their only hope in national elections is low voter turnout and are willing to lie, cheat, and steal to try and get it. The response is to continue to turn out the vote.

[Chris P]

You would think mfs on a traveling website would easily observe this and it would not be ao easy to pull the wool over their eyes. As if you go to Nigeria, Philippines, Korea, Singapore, India, Bulgaria, or any other homogeneous country all the citizens are living together harmoniously. Nope. Mfs over there are discriminating among each other for whatever reason they see fit. Why are people from all over the world breaking their necks to get to America for it to be such a terribly raciat place? Travelers should easily be able to distinguish the forest from the trees; but evidently they can't.

Absolutely right. In most countries around the world in which different ethnic groups or tribes are forced to co-exist, they regularly massacre each other and need to be kept apart by military peacekeepers. The fact that different groups live mostly peacefully in America (except unfortunately when blacks are incited to riot by the democrats and fake news media) shows that America is in fact an incredibly tolerant place. For now.

[Chris P]

You and Canada both should apply as "on air" talent for Fox "News" blablabla

No attempt to rebut the arguments as usual, because you cannot. Just boring, unoriginal, low-information flailing.

Let's take one issue which I already explained to you a few weeks back but you don't seem to have grasped yet. Election integrity. As I showed, the vast majority of democracies across the world require photo ID to ensure election integrity, and ban mail-in ballots because they are not secure and easy to rig. Why do you think that is? Are they all "racist"? (Hint: many of them are in majority-black countries!

[Chris P]

If America is terrible racist place why are people "breaking their necks to get there. " I will answer that for you oh uninformed one, they are doing so because they percieve it as a land that will offer them better financial opportunities than the one they are currently living in.

Firstly, o ye of low information, there are now so many ghettos in various US cities that the illegals can live entirely among their own people, speak their own language, and barely even see or interact with any of the "racist" gringos. (The fact that they have a racist term. Gringo - for white people might show you who is actually racist here, both of which are full of the same thing).

Secondly, they do not have the right to come here. Are you arguing for the repeal of immigration law? If you are not insane, and you accept and understand that national borders must be maintained, then you must accept that laws need to be enforced.

[Run Mann]

The problem is these online discussions go full circle, and what was refuted two weeks ago gets asserted all over again so anyone who participates long enough is forced to go in circles. That's a bad use of my time. But yea, and for the second time, there's a minority of blacks that grow up in poverty and seek out alternative ways to prosper, and this can involve gangs and drugs. This has been going in the states approaching 200 years. At first it was primarily the Irish, then the Italians. Murder rates in Chicago during the Capone era were similar as now. It's a dirty business and nothing new, but it's a small minority of blacks in spite of these efforts to paint them all as lazy, inferior, over indulgent criminals. The same stereotypes were placed on the Irish and Italians. Go in most any major city or predominantly black neighborhood and you'll find loads of blacks working hard in a variety of professions. The vast majority aren't standing on the corner selling crack. Nor are they down at the pawn shop buying gold chains with their stimulus money. But even if they were, so what? There's been no shortage of white guys around these communities bragging about spending all their stimulus on hookers, so what's the difference? Well the latter doesn't work with anyone's agenda for pushing stereotypes so it's left alone. Yea we get it. Wink.

Yes, You don't even have to wait two weeks, sometimes its just a post or two below and despite being presented with proof, indoctrinated warriors will continue to push their talking points. The vote recount and the election was stolen is now up there with Benghazi fire-fight loop shown on Fox. As to the illogical conclusion below, If America is terrible racist place why are people "breaking their necks to get there. " I will answer that for you oh uninformed one, they are doing so because they percieve it as a land that will offer them better financial opportunities than the one they are currently living in. Going there that does not negate the fact that the place is racist or that they know it is.

Many people go to work for Amazon, UPS, McDonalds or anywhere else where the environment is quite austere. They work in these places despite knowing the culture is not conducive to equitable treatement or that real promotion opportunities exist. For them its not about the company's values, its primarily monetary.

[Xpartan]

President Trump's approval ratings in the GOP remain sky-high for good reason .

Finally a sentiment I can agree with.

For "good reason" indeed.

Because the GOP, or its bigger part anyway, is not a political party anymore. It's a cult.

[PVMonger]

Here's something that you need to carry in your wallet along with you picture of Donnie.

[PVMonger]

Everything Stefanik said in her quote was true. The democrats and fake news cannot rebut it point by point, so instead they just shriek "lies!" 30 years ago this worked out well for them, because they had total control of the media. Then in the 1990's talk radio, Fox News and in particular the internet came about, freeing up information. Unfortunately the censorious left has struck back, by bringing much of the once-free internet into Big Tech social media companies, which they then use to censor political content, up to and including the sitting President of the United States.

Fortunately, despite the endless censorship, recent polls show a majority of Americans know the election was rigged (the reality is higher but many will not admit it because of negative professional consequences, or are democrats who are happy at the cheating). President Trump's approval ratings in the GOP remain sky-high for good reason, and the RINO deep state establishment warmonger types who betrayed him are being sent packing. Cheney will soon be out the door, as will Romney judging by the magnificent booing he received from the Utah GOP.

You and Canada both should apply as "on air" talent for Fox "News" because you can spread manure faster than almost anyone other than Carlson.

But it is easy to be a trump supporter. All you need to do is bloviate about Fake news.

[Mr Enternational]

It's not so much that racism is innate. It's that "otherness" is innate.

You would think mfs on a traveling website would easily observe this and it would not be ao easy to pull the wool over their eyes. As if you go to Nigeria, Philippines, Korea, Singapore, India, Bulgaria, or any other homogeneous country all the citizens are living together harmoniously. Nope. Mfs over there are discriminating among each other for whatever reason they see fit. Why are people from all over the world breaking their necks to get to America for it to be such a terribly raciat place? Travelers should easily be able to distinguish the forest from the trees; but evidently they can't.

[Beijing4987]

Fat Nixon will experience the same fate as General Douglas McArthur: "Old soldiers never die, they just fade away" Try as they will to gerrymander and suppress the minority and marginalized voters, they have lost the independents and suburban women.

[Chris P]

The party is dead.

I think you'll find from the last election that the Republican party is in control of the majority of state legislatures and governorships; very nearly won back the House and is 50/50 in the Senate and will win back both in 2022; and "lost" the White House due to unconstitutionality and fraud which is currently being unpicked, first in Arizona and soon elsewhere.

The GOP is the party of the American people. The only way the democrats can defeat it is by letting in millions of illegals in addition to the 30 million already in the country and allowing them all to vote illegally, which is of course the reason they want to ban all voter ID and other election integrity measures.

[Chris P]

Why aren't you complaining about "Democratic run" cities in states that voted for Donnie? Houston, Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Columbus, Kansas City, Louisville, etc.

Are you saying that "large scale fraud" was committed only in Democratic-run cities in states that Donnie LOST? That fraud was committed in Phoenix but not in Houston?.

LOL. Think about what you are saying. There probably was fraud in democrat-run cities in Texas and elsewhere (all of these places are corrupt shitholes after all) but the rest of Texas was so overwhelmingly pro-Trump that they couldn't get their corpse over the line. But in smaller / closer states, they could. As Trump himself recently mentioned, he was well ahead in Michigan until the count was inexplicably stopped after midnight, and then at 6 am a dump of 150,000 votes appeared in Detroit (in the same counting centre which notoriously boarded up its windows so that people couldn't see in), of which 96% were for Biden. 96%. LOL.

That is simply laughable. If it happened in some corrupt, bankrupt third world banana republic, people would literally laugh. Which is apt, because Detroit is indeed a corrupt, bankrupt third world banana republic.