American Politics

[LittleBigMan]

I wonder if we are talking about how the virus originated it seems the majority agreed but then the next word is to bring in Trump is this about the Virus or is it about Trump.

I didn't vote for the big mouth in fact I didn't get to vote when I was home many of my coffee buddies still remember what I said when he got elected that I wasn't scared of him being President because I believe in the system my LGBT (whatever you call it) my niece said she was moving to Canada I told her the same. Our system not perfect will keep him in check. From the beginning, I said his downfall will be his big mouth and Twitter I've been around white guys like him my whole life at work I said this is going to be the greatest reality show of all times.

I voted for Obama twice although I campaigned for Hillary in 2007, Obama was a total disappointment for me! When I look at stuff today I like what Trump or his administration has done in regards to foreign policy particularly with China. Right now I have no problem ticking the box for the big mouth if I could get home in Sept-Oct for a visit. There is no way in hell on his best day I would vote for Biden no matter who he selects isn't going to make a difference to me. My mother is 102, she still can at least talk straight.

[Sinofaguo]

Seeing that Trump is not the supreme ruler of the world, what were the presidents and prime ministers of the other 194 countries on the planet saying and doing at the time?

Thats actually the good way of looking at the problem.

Several countries decided to test early or confine early and had some of the greatest results. This includes countries such as Singapore, New Zealand. But even countries like South Korea or Japan whom were challenged at different phases.

The problem with most western countries is that they chose to treat the illness as a severe flu and decided not to confine people early (nor test that much for some of them) but wait for herd immunity to build itself. Since herd immunity requires 60 or 70% of the population to get the illness for it to work, and since hospital capacities are usually reached when 5 to 10% of the population contracts the virus due to the speed of contamination and the amount of people requiring intensive care (some countries have better capacities than others), the strategy of doing nothing and act as usual didn't work and several countries had to give up and enter some form of confinment / lowering outside contact to release the pressure.

Therefore it shows there were different scenarios withvery different outcomes which could be decided by our governments.

Several other governments have held China accountable for some real issues without using it as a smokescreen for their own actions (or lack of). Why are other leaders from occidental countries able to have a more responsible approach about their own acts?
And regarding the US, its not even a republican or democrate thing, there are great people on both sides, but there is clearly an issue with the current administration. I didn't see any other administration than the Trump administration refusing to be accountable for its own decisions and solely playing "the China card" even making the most stupid claims they were not able to backup in any way in the end. How are we supposed to push the chinese towards a more democratic system when the top level of the US administration, "leader of the free world", is caught lying repetedly including about the most stupid things.

In the end, don't fool yourself, we will be the ones accountable for all these people's acts and its its going to hurt much more than the sanitary crisis which started it.

[Sinofaguo]

The problems with your basis of criticism of President Trump is from using the New York Times as your fact check. The NY Times is a notorious anti-Trump publication It is at best is an arm of the Democratic Party. At worst a left wing publication of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), the US version of Xinhua.

Weird the New York Times is one of the United States most prestigious press title funded in 1851, so it must be much more than just an anti Trump publication since it existed 150+ years before he was appointed president.

How about all the other press titles quoting similar numbers? Including FoxNews which isn't exactly "an arm of the democratic party".

You fail to note that the CCP was busy trying to hide the outbreak in December

You failed to note it in my post but it is there as unlike you I have no problems with the facts and I stated it in my post on my own:

Blame it on China all you wan't for the 3 or 4 weeks lost from end December to wuhan's closure around Jan. 20th

But while I blame China for having lost those 3 or 4 weeks after they had identified the sickness and were starting getting evidence that it could potentially be transmitted from human to human. Why shouldn't I also blame Trump for wasting 2 to 3 MONTHS by claiming this illness was a hoax and refusing to test people until roughly mid March?

Sorry I'm not buying this line of defense from the Trump administration that we should just blame China and ask them to magically stop a virus which the great United States of america under Trump's "leadership" not only wasn't able to stop, but let it spread allover the USA like jam rather than doing what the chinese and several other countries have decided to do at early stage months before (test, protect, isolate).

Why was the Trump administration refusing for people to perfom covid tests with only a few hundreds achieved by end February? When Italy had already performed several thousands and South Korea 10's of thousands both with populations far lower than the US.

If you don't test, you cannot find the illness. Instead of making useless comments on TV or on tweeter calling the illness a hoax or saying it would be over in a matter of days he should have tested the population, distributed masks to lower the risk of contamination, and declare the country or significants parts of it under lockdown way before it was done not even by himself but to the governor's initiative, often against Trump whom ended up flaming those governors for saving lifes.

Think a bit less about reelection, and a bit more about the people... (yeah I know its naive to expect that but still... what a waste).

[Rodwint2]

Wuhan airport was also shut down on January 23rd. So its not true people under lockdown in Wuhan were able to travel internationaly. Only people who had left the city and province before that date were able to travel abroad (which is why countries had to send charter flights to wuhan after that date to get their citizens back home).

But your point is intersting because Trump indeed claimed his travel ban was the solution to all problems "I do think we were very early, but I also think that we were very smart, because we stopped China," he said at a briefing on Tuesday, adding, "That was probably the biggest decision we made so far. ".

When in fact "430,000 People Have Traveled From China to USA Since Coronavirus Surfaced. There were 1,300 direct flights to 17 cities before President Trump's travel restrictions. Since then, nearly 40,000 Americans and other authorized travelers have made the trip" according to an investigation from the NYTimes 1. 5 months ago (so the numbers are probably higher now). https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/u...trictions.html.

The problems with your basis of criticism of President Trump is from using the New York Times as your fact check. The NY Times is a notorious anti-Trump publication It is at best is an arm of the Democratic Party. At worst a left wing publication of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), the US version of Xinhua.

You fail to note that the CCP was busy trying to hide the outbreak in December when it went out of its way to "arrest" the whistleblowing doctor who took notice of the outbreak. That doctor later contracted the Wuhan virus and died from it over a month ago. Those are the facts. The CCP is the most responsible for this Wuhan virus breaking out around the world.

The CCP does not care how many Chinese people die, because with 1. 5 billion people, a few million is a small price to pay. The CCP is behind this "attack" because it cannot fight a war with the free world with its feeble PLA. War is just no longer feasible with weapons of mass destruction so easy to kill millions in a matter of a few hours. Throw a new pandemic as a weapon to the developed nations who are not prepared for this type of "warfare" and the CCP is happy to destroy the world economy so long as the PRC becomes the big economic power of the world. The Belt and Road strategy is their road map for world domination. Build a soccer stadium that you can pay back and another third world country is in your pocket. Create a few "islands" and take over a strategic ocean resource. There are 88 million members of the CCP enslaving 1. 5 billion people in the PRC. How long will this last?

[EihTooms]

Seeing that Trump is not the supreme ruler of the world, what were the presidents and prime ministers of the other 194 countries on the planet saying and doing at the time?

That depends on whether those other countries had the same access and intel gathering powers of the USA's National Security Council, State Department and Pentagon to rely on getting "different" info on the progress and truth about what was really happening in China early on.

Doubtful any other countries did. Like it or not, fair or not, they generally rely on the USA using its generally agreed upon top powers, money, influence and position as the Leader of the Free World to find out those things, which we did, giving that info to the president, which our intel agencies did, and on him/her doing the right thing with that info, which he didn't. Instead, he ignored what was told to him and chose to repeat and confirm China's lies about it.

[Mr Enternational]

You don't seem to realize Trump hid the disaster coming from the covid until mid March when he started allowing people to be tested.

Seeing that Trump is not the supreme ruler of the world, what were the presidents and prime ministers of the other 194 countries on the planet saying and doing at the time?

[LittleBigMan]

The damage from the financial crisis in 2008 was not limited to voluntary investors in the stock markets. In the USA, hundreds of thousands of jobs were lost per month for several months. I assume there were similar mass job losses and business closures in other countries as well. People who paid their mortgages and on time lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity because ten other homes on the block lost 90% of their value and those properties dragged all home values down in the area. There were millions of victims of that disaster who had more than discretionary gambling money on the line.

I think the point was to either get restitution from China, punish them or both because the pandemic started there. I realize one is about death and one is about money. But we're talking about financial restitution and monetary penalties, aren't we? I mean, there is no way to bring back the dead. And I don't think the idea is to kill one Chinese person for every American, European, Thai, etc. person who died from it. So, in that way the call for restitution and punishment, if any, from the country that started the problem is also similar to what could have been done after the 2008 financial crisis. Money.

I think we are in agreement again I would believe it is my writing that is causing the problem. I will address restitution I'm for all of that stuff but the politician that is on the bandwagon now is nothing but talk talking to get support for themselves or their party. Both parties got their head up so far the ass of the Chinese that is all they can do is talk they got no real plan to make them pay nor a real plan to get American companies to leave. Have you heard any of them do some Google search and see the top 10 on the list once you get by KFC? I can guarantee KFC gave up their secret spicies to operate there and grow and grow they did!

This has been going on for 30-40 years you think the USA Is going to say " we aren't going to make good on T-Bills you got " every USA Expert will tell you, No but Hell No. So what is the plan? During the short trade war majority of the views I read was Trump Trump is an idiot the reality the Chinese Leaders have been saying this for some time that Americans don't have the fortitude they are too absorbed with their I-phones, cheap T. V. Electronics, clothes, appliances companies, Chevy all being sold or being made in China. G. E. , Boeing, Tesla, hundreds of top Universities taking large donations from China so the Chinese can create fake documents to send their young spies to these Universities. In the last few years, at least a dozen Chinese caught working in top research centers or being on the payroll of the Chinese. The list is deep and long and that doesn't include donations to all our politicians in some form or another.

The first shot fired was during the World Cup Basketball, but no one seems to notice because it was sports who would have known it was a sign to come! As soon as China Leaders spoke about the Houston GM comments every free speech advocate in the NBA shut down, You hear from LeBron, Harding, Curry, Thompson, any owner any other GM, China told them to shut up and jump and everyone did except Shaq that was a surprise? Any companies then or now complaining and standing up!

Yes, they should be punished, and standing up announcing it so they can get votes isn't going to do it. They want to win got to play the game the same way the Chinese do it " Art of War " look your enemy in the face agree when they turn stab them in the back that is how you deal with China leaders but neither our Congress or Senate is going to do it, has any bill come to the floor even if it did has it passed. Yes it is the perfect time to fix the problem where do we start?

[LittleBigMan]

You don't seem to realize Trump hid the disaster coming from the covid until mid March when he started allowing people to be tested. Begining of March less people had been tested in the US than in south africa.

Trump was even calling the illness "a hoax from the democrats" end of February and was saying the remaining few people sick would be brough to 0 in a matter of days.

Blame it on China all you wan't for the 3 or 4 weeks lost from end December to wuhan's closure around Jan. 20th, they at least quarantined wuhan and hubei at that time till end of March (or mid April for wuhan).

And you seem to have missed that pretty much ALL OF China was less stricly but still quarantined from jan 22 until mid Feb / end of Feb depending on the province and area... with inter province 14 days quarantine maintained long after that (when people came to big cities from other provinces had to stay 14 days at home after already being quarantined 6 weeks in their home province).

We all witnessed too what happened on the Diamond Princess boat or in Italy after that. So claiming we had no idea about the death or contamination rates is a lie.

Yet as of Feb. 26 (2 days before Trump declared the illness a hoax) here are the numbers of concluded tests:
- United States: 445 concluded tests, of which 14 positive (3. 1% positivity rate).
- Italy: 9,462 tests, of which 470 positive, awaiting results: unknown (at least 5. 0% positivity rate).
- South Korea: 66,652 tests with 1766 positives 25,568 awaiting results (4. 3% positivity rate).

So many people asking to be tested for covid 19 in the US were denied those tests until mid March.

As for Trump's administration massive proofs that the virus was coming from a lab, they were so massive its administration ended up not releasing them.

If Trump had thought a bit more about the american people rather than trying to save his reelection against all cost, he would probably have taken the necessary measures earlier.
Testing people, giving them masks, putting the country under quarantine just like China did at an early stage.

Trump, Trump, Trump... everything seems to be about him rather than about the people. Can't he lead the country for the people rather than being so self absorbed and tweeting all day?
Who's next to lead the US? Kim Kardashian?

In the end, I'm not going to subject poster here to convince you or anyone who is the blame, I'm sure I can anyone can and certainty you will find a reason but I start from the beginning as to the origination and how it spread I'm not going to layout stats about countries and last bring in Trump's name. I'm not going to even whitewash the name saying calling it Wuhan.

[Sinofaguo]

You've forgotten the most damning action China took.
Placing Wuhan on lockdown and not allowing folks there to travel to any other part of China while still allowing them to travel internationally.
That being said, the US did to react in time.

Wuhan airport was also shut down on January 23rd. So its not true people under lockdown in Wuhan were able to travel internationaly. Only people who had left the city and province before that date were able to travel abroad (which is why countries had to send charter flights to wuhan after that date to get their citizens back home).

But your point is intersting because Trump indeed claimed his travel ban was the solution to all problems "I do think we were very early, but I also think that we were very smart, because we stopped China," he said at a briefing on Tuesday, adding, "That was probably the biggest decision we made so far. ".

When in fact "430,000 People Have Traveled From China to USA Since Coronavirus Surfaced. There were 1,300 direct flights to 17 cities before President Trump's travel restrictions. Since then, nearly 40,000 Americans and other authorized travelers have made the trip" according to an investigation from the NYTimes 1. 5 months ago (so the numbers are probably higher now). https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/u...trictions.html.

[Goatscrot]

You don't seem to realize Trump hid the disaster coming from the covid until mid March when he started allowing people to be tested. Begining of March less people had been tested in the US than in south africa.

Trump was even calling the illness "a hoax from the democrats" end of February and was saying the remaining few people sick would be brough to 0 in a matter of days.

Blame it on China all you wan't for the 3 or 4 weeks lost from end December to wuhan's closure around Jan. 20th, they at least quarantined wuhan and hubei at that time till end of March (or mid April for wuhan).

And you seem to have missed that pretty much ALL OF China was less stricly but still quarantined from jan 22 until mid Feb / end of Feb depending on the province and area... with inter province 14 days quarantine maintained long after that (when people came to big cities from other provinces had to stay 14 days at home after already being quarantined 6 weeks in their home province).

We all witnessed too what happened on the Diamond Princess boat or in Italy after that. So claiming we had no idea about the death or contamination rates is a lie.

Yet on as of Feb. 26 (2 days before Trump declared the illness a hoax) here are the numbers of concluded tests:
- United States: 445 concluded tests, of which 14 positive (3. 1% positivity rate).
- Italy: 9,462 tests, of which 470 positive, awaiting results: unknown (at least 5. 0% positivity rate).
- South Korea: 66,652 tests with 1766 positives 25,568 awaiting results (4. 3% positivity rate).

So many people asking to be tested for covid 19 in the US were denied those tests until mid March.

As for Trump's administration massive proofs that the virus was coming from a lab, they were so massive its administration ended up not releasing them.

If Trump had thought a bit more about the american people rather than trying to save his reelection against all cost, he would probably have taken the necessary measures earlier.
Testing people, giving them masks, putting the country under quarantine just like China did at an early stage.

Trump, Trump, Trump... everything seems to be about him rather than about the people. Can't he lead the country for the people rather than being so self absorbed and tweeting all day?
Who's next to lead the US? Kim Kardashian?

You've forgotten the most damning action China took. Placing Wuhan on lockdown and not allowing folks there to travel to any other part of China while still allowing them to travel internationally. That being said, the US did to react in time.

[Sinofaguo]

You don't seem to realize Trump hid the disaster coming from the covid until mid March when he started allowing people to be tested. Begining of March less people had been tested in the US than in south africa.

Trump was even calling the illness "a hoax from the democrats" end of February and was saying the remaining few people sick would be brough to 0 in a matter of days.

Blame it on China all you wan't for the 3 or 4 weeks lost from end December to wuhan's closure around Jan. 20th, they at least quarantined wuhan and hubei at that time till end of March (or mid April for wuhan).

And you seem to have missed that pretty much ALL OF China was less stricly but still quarantined from jan 22 until mid Feb / end of Feb depending on the province and area... with inter province 14 days quarantine maintained long after that (when people came to big cities from other provinces had to stay 14 days at home after already being quarantined 6 weeks in their home province).

We all witnessed too what happened on the Diamond Princess boat or in Italy after that. So claiming we had no idea about the death or contamination rates is a lie.

Yet as of Feb. 26 (2 days before Trump declared the illness a hoax) here are the numbers of concluded tests:
- United States: 445 concluded tests, of which 14 positive (3. 1% positivity rate).
- Italy: 9,462 tests, of which 470 positive, awaiting results: unknown (at least 5. 0% positivity rate).
- South Korea: 66,652 tests with 1766 positives 25,568 awaiting results (4. 3% positivity rate).

So many people asking to be tested for covid 19 in the US were denied those tests until mid March.

As for Trump's administration massive proofs that the virus was coming from a lab, they were so massive its administration ended up not releasing them.

If Trump had thought a bit more about the american people rather than trying to save his reelection against all cost, he would probably have taken the necessary measures earlier.
Testing people, giving them masks, putting the country under quarantine just like China did at an early stage.

Trump, Trump, Trump... everything seems to be about him rather than about the people. Can't he lead the country for the people rather than being so self absorbed and tweeting all day?
Who's next to lead the US? Kim Kardashian?

I don't dispute any of your reasons, for me, it comes down to one thing as to why it isn't a good comparison to me at least. You are talking apples and oranges when it comes to the financial markets it was opened freely to everyone they had a choice to invest or not invest and the ability to do their own research it wasn't forced on us like the Virus. In many ways through financial report investors were warned the Virus by China NO! People didn't die in the numbers they are dying today millions of jobs lost and people lockdown in their homes.

Now I don't have to go through everything China did when they knew and could have told the world just own up to the problem which is what the financial market did when it collapsed, of course, anyone could make an argument as to whether they did or not. Sure I lost some money than gain much more back I benefited from years of being able to buy and refi my properties and get a ton of equity out of it. Everything I own here which is a lot all the money in the bank and abroad came from much of the market back home.

When it comes to the Virus we are here today because the Communist Maoist when they knew hid everything from the world today they still deny the timeline and threaten anyone or country if challenged they destroyed the world economy this comes from leaders who want to be number #1 world! Lying, stealing, killing isn't a way to lead. In the end, you are here debating price, looks, lockdown subjected to online pussy did that happen when the financial market hit! Don't answer that E. T. Let it go.

I have Chinese heritage in me when China was opening up 30 plus years ago I was hoping they wouldn't go down this route they did and have today, to be honest, I'm ashamed to be Chinese because of the communist leaders. I was thinking of being 100% Thai but then I came to my senses!

[ScatManDoo]

I rarely support Trump's stupid ideas.

But I fully support his choice to take hydroxychloroquin.

In fact, I suggest he double his current dosage.

Why not get twice the protection? What's he got to lose?

[EihTooms]

I don't dispute any of your reasons, for me, it comes down to one thing as to why it isn't a good comparison to me at least. You are talking apples and oranges when it comes to the financial markets it was opened freely to everyone they had a choice to invest or not invest and the ability to do their own research it wasn't forced on us like the Virus. In many ways through financial report investors were warned the Virus by China NO! People didn't die in the numbers they are dying today millions of jobs lost and people lockdown in their homes.
..

The damage from the financial crisis in 2008 was not limited to voluntary investors in the stock markets. In the USA, hundreds of thousands of jobs were lost per month for several months. I assume there were similar mass job losses and business closures in other countries as well. People who paid their mortgages and on time lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity because ten other homes on the block lost 90% of their value and those properties dragged all home values down in the area. There were millions of victims of that disaster who had more than discretionary gambling money on the line.

I think the point was to either get restitution from China, punish them or both because the pandemic started there. I realize one is about death and one is about money. But we're talking about financial restitution and monetary penalties, aren't we? I mean, there is no way to bring back the dead. And I don't think the idea is to kill one Chinese person for every American, European, Thai, etc. person who died from it. So, in that way the call for restitution and punishment, if any, from the country that started the problem is also similar to what could have been done after the 2008 financial crisis. Money.

[LittleBigMan]

I think it's a pretty good comparison. That 2008 financial crash was not confined to the USA. It created a gigantic ripple effect all around the world, plunging international economies outside of the USA into paralyses, crashing stock markets almost across the board.

However, the real trigger for that deep panic sell-off around the world was a shocking event that occurred on September 29, 2008, about two weeks after the collapse of Lehman Bros. That also happened in the USA, of course. But the ones who pulled the trigger were just a handful of Congressional House members from one political side of the aisle.

The world probably should have billed that party for the global financial destruction triggered on that day and punished them in some way for causing it. Instead, the USA rewarded them with a historic electoral victory just 2 years later. Go figure.

I don't dispute any of your reasons, for me, it comes down to one thing as to why it isn't a good comparison to me at least. You are talking apples and oranges when it comes to the financial markets it was opened freely to everyone they had a choice to invest or not invest and the ability to do their own research it wasn't forced on us like the Virus. In many ways through financial report investors were warned the Virus by China NO! People didn't die in the numbers they are dying today millions of jobs lost and people lockdown in their homes.

Now I don't have to go through everything China did when they knew and could have told the world just own up to the problem which is what the financial market did when it collapsed, of course, anyone could make an argument as to whether they did or not. Sure I lost some money than gain much more back I benefited from years of being able to buy and refi my properties and get a ton of equity out of it. Everything I own here which is a lot all the money in the bank and abroad came from much of the market back home.

When it comes to the Virus we are here today because the Communist Maoist when they knew hid everything from the world today they still deny the timeline and threaten anyone or country if challenged they destroyed the world economy this comes from leaders who want to be number #1 world! Lying, stealing, killing isn't a way to lead. In the end, you are here debating price, looks, lockdown subjected to online pussy did that happen when the financial market hit! Don't answer that E. T. Let it go.

I have Chinese heritage in me when China was opening up 30 plus years ago I was hoping they wouldn't go down this route they did and have today, to be honest, I'm ashamed to be Chinese because of the communist leaders. I was thinking of being 100% Thai but then I came to my senses!

[EihTooms]

Sorry I don't know about anyone else but that is really a lousy comparison!

I think it's a pretty good comparison. That 2008 financial crash was not confined to the USA. It created a gigantic ripple effect all around the world, plunging international economies outside of the USA into paralyses, crashing stock markets almost across the board.

However, the real trigger for that deep panic sell-off around the world was a shocking event that occurred on September 29, 2008, about two weeks after the collapse of Lehman Bros. That also happened in the USA, of course. But the ones who pulled the trigger were just a handful of Congressional House members from one political side of the aisle.

The world probably should have billed that party for the global financial destruction triggered on that day and punished them in some way for causing it. Instead, the USA rewarded them with a historic electoral victory just 2 years later. Go figure.