American Politics

[GoodEnough]

Bill, you might have seen, but you obviously failed to understand much or perhaps most of what you saw. First, I have met SH several times, and your perception of his motivations, his attitudes and his behavior are not only egregiously wrong, but offensive. Second, your generalizations about the lifestyles of expatriates would be equally offensive if they were not so absurd.

In fifteen years of living overseas, I've found that peoples' motivations vary enormously: sometimes the rationale is economic, sometimes political, and sometimes social, but it's rarely sexual. That is, most men who make the decision to live oversea don't do so primarily so they can screw younger women. This may be a fringe benefit, but it's hardly a motivation for changing one's entire life. Maybe before your next trip you should read a couple of books and arrange to meet a more representative sample of expats. You might also want to brush up your syntax prior to making your next lengthy post.

J Boy, your point is well-taken though I'm not sure I would include defense expenditures post World War II as foreign assistance. I think it's more on the order of self-interest and perhaps a determination on the part of politicians to ensure the survival of the defense industry and the number of jobs associated with it. I doubt, for example, that the Japanese or the Germans view the presence of US troops on their soil as essential any longer.

Maybe it's not possible to generalize accurately about either of these issues, and maybe the reasons that those of us who live overseas do so are as idiosyncratic as the individuals who make the choices. I do think though, that once someone has lived overseas for long enough, though he or she may adapt to other cultures, the individual never "fits in" again. For example, as an American living in Asia, I'm always going to be perceived as an outsider, and will be perceived somewhat in that vein by Americans when I do go home.

Obviously, this is just my point of view and just my two centavos worth of opinion.



GE

[Bill Buxton]

SH, I agree with MOST of what you said BUT,What about the guys working today giving more than you in terms of paying into the ss system.The guy that works every day and hears about how there is likely not gonna be anything for him.And you telling how you live like a war loard.Are you bragging or complaining?Sounds like the money you paid in and got back was yours what about the statement about not wanting to work?"lazy"? not fitting in back home.Why? you don't make an attempt at keeping in touch?your family and friends not liking your choice of countries?or the gal you chose?I saw all the same in my short trip,many guys that we misunderstood by there friends and family.

Many of the reasons were because of THERE CHOICES not there families.It's not about being the big time charlie or is it?Sounds like you got that kind of ego you need to fuel.Cant cut the mustard at home you mean YOUNG GALS?It's a fucking joke with you OLD GUYS yes I said old running around like you are still somebody,well the joke is on you!It takes work and guts to stay at home and pay and face the music and vote for whoever you think will do the best job for the people.You are probably like others that BIT** every day about bush but were never here to try and change anything, or cast and vote for what you think should be changed.I met what I would call shitheads from here on my trip wanting to be or act young again.Talking very loud about the riches all there incoharent hours.I responded to them every chance I got,if your so rich why ain't you home???I never got an answer from most, and some were coherent enough to speak.

I dont find the fascination with the younger guys in your place like I do with the old.Mabey it's because they still get there stinger wet every night at home.And the answer is if you had the corner on the place to live everyone would be there.

Lazy,drunk,bigshot,whatever fuels your egos lap it up but the bottom line is you want the riches from the pot "think American now, BECAUSE YOU ARE INTITLED TO THEM "SS" YOU PAID YOUR SHARE AND WANT IT BACK"I am sure you take that check away and the warlord would surely cry like a regular baby.And please tell us what bank in Asia you have the money entered into?most guys have a us bank and for what reason???Come on you know please tell us all mr. warloard.What about the 10% interest you can get there on all your ritches you have it's sure better than what you get here!! Bit,what about safe? Please tell us how safe your green is there.I heard the local braintrust there worrying about there peso accounts because of the rates at the first of the year.Worrying about the 1 point up or down sounded like they all had billions in the bank.Sure thats why they would ***** when the beer price went to .05 pesos per beer higher.The rich big shots with the money to burn,most could not pour [CodeWord140] out of a rubber boot with the instructions scribbled on the heel.

The facts are the facts and the truth is the truth,You are gonna die and leave the embassy to pay for the funeral after the guys back home pay for it.Not to mention after that Young cooze and the RELATHIVES loot and get the warlords belonings,every last drop...

I SAW IT AND LIVED IT EVERY DAY FOR 6 MONTHS, so blow smoke up someone else's ass...

B.B...

[J Boy]

I do want to point out though, in terms of our giving away the "free stuff" that the amount of money the US gives away as foreign aid is less, on a per capita percentage of GDP than any other developed country in the world. We are not nearly as generous for example, as Norway (the highest percentage of GDP as foreign aid), or Canada.

But when you factor in our defense budget and the way we protected Europe and most of the world from the Soviet Union for 40 years, we might look a little more generous. Then factor in the Americans who died in defense of others in both world wars, the cold war and so many undeclared wars. I think we have done more than anyone can expect. If Europe had to depend upon the likes of Norway they would all be speaking Russian.

[J Boy]

As always, SH, you make perfect sense, and you raise a point that I forgot to mention. Once you've lived overseas for a certain period of time, be it in Asia, Europe or wherever, you just do not fit in "at home" any more. I guess it's because in the US, as with everywhere else, the culture is dynamic, things are changing all the time, and you (the expat) have not been there to accommodate or internalize the changes. I find exactly the same thing on my rare visits to the US: I will often be jarred by the culture shock and think to myself, "Where the hell am I?"

In my case, I've lived outside the US for so long that I don't even know anyone, aside from the kids, very well any more and when I do get together with old friends, we find we have very little to say to each other. They cannot possibly identify with or be cognizant of my lifestyle, and I can no longer identify with theirs. I don't think this has anything at all to do with one's feelings toward the US or wherever your country of birth happens to be. It's just the inevitable process of cultural alienation.

Prior to living in Asia, I lived in Paris for several years, and I recall thinking, on a trip back to the states, how loud Americans are. Of course, the noise level probably hadn't changed since I had lived in America, but I simply was not used to it any more.

This is probably the last comment I'll make on this subject, but it is somewhat reassuring to note that others experience some of the same feelings that I do.

GE

This doesn't make any sense to me. You are a person who has many times gone to new places and made friends with people of a different cultures but you can't get past some changes at home? Maybe you aren't really trying.

[GoodEnough]

As always, SH, you make perfect sense, and you raise a point that I forgot to mention. Once you've lived overseas for a certain period of time, be it in Asia, Europe or wherever, you just do not fit in "at home" any more. I guess it's because in the US, as with everywhere else, the culture is dynamic, things are changing all the time, and you (the expat) have not been there to accommodate or internalize the changes. I find exactly the same thing on my rare visits to the US: I will often be jarred by the culture shock and think to myself, "Where the hell am I?"

In my case, I've lived outside the US for so long that I don't even know anyone, aside from the kids, very well any more and when I do get together with old friends, we find we have very little to say to each other. They cannot possibly identify with or be cognizant of my lifestyle, and I can no longer identify with theirs. I don't think this has anything at all to do with one's feelings toward the US or wherever your country of birth happens to be. It's just the inevitable process of cultural alienation.

Prior to living in Asia, I lived in Paris for several years, and I recall thinking, on a trip back to the states, how loud Americans are. Of course, the noise level probably hadn't changed since I had lived in America, but I simply was not used to it any more.

This is probably the last comment I'll make on this subject, but it is somewhat reassuring to note that others experience some of the same feelings that I do.

GE

[Spam Hog]

I hate to see things degenerate into a ***** session, borrrrriiiinnnnngggg, so please understand I am not bitching and I am not taking aim at anyone. I, like many other expats LOVE my country, the good old USA, I served it in many ways for almost 30 years. I do not view my substantial pension as "supported by taxpayers" as I had to pay into it, that's right... came out of my salary every week I worked, Im proud of that too.

However, as much as I love my country, i choose not to live there as I simply cannot afford to unless I want to work. Probably in a private business as I had before. Why the hell should I work, pay taxes, maintain a business ,license and put up with all the crap of having employee's, labour management hassels and the inevitible law suits and other crap? Unfortunately, that is what American has become. Freedom ???
The legal profession has made everyday life a mine field of political correctness where there are so many laws, rules regularions and mandates that it is nearly impossible not to violate something or other then the special agenda groups take over and nail your ass to the wall coz U are a white male republican. That isn't freedom my friends.

Being an expat in Asia, living and working and of course playing here for more than seven years has made me realize many things, one is that how lucky I am to have been born in the USA and be a success at my chosen field and enjoy a generous retirement stipend every month that allows me to live like a fuedal warlord. But believe me I earned every penny. This is the other thing I learned:

TRUE FREEDOM IS FINANCIAL FREEDOM. If you have enough money and a dependable income you can go anywhere at any time and do anything you want...now thats freedom and that is what I have here.

The other issue is, once you get over in Asia and live there, you dont want to go back...so many reason for this. I came to this realization on a brief trip back to the USA recently to see my grandkids...I dont fit in anymore.


Spend more than a few months here and you wont either.

Regards


The Spam hog

[Bill Buxton]

You are right you did earn it but what about the working class or any class for that matter that pays taxes on wages and then again on savings.If the people could vote on paying ss and giving it to those who move from there country to live elsewhere they might want the cash to stay here.Fuel the economy at home not in another country.

I have argued about this at home with many just a thread not just my personal feelings.I have seen both sides of the coin and each should decide his fate here or there.

B.B...

[GoodEnough]

I don't want to get into a debate on patriotism or the political morality of the US versus anywhere else. I do think that the gist of Bill's argument is correct, and that the US does, in fact, act as a beacon to the rest of the world in many respects, though certainly (at least with the current administration) not all. I do want to point out though, in terms of our giving away the "free stuff" that the amount of money the US gives away as foreign aid is less, on a per capita percentage of GDP than any other developed country in the world. We are not nearly as generous for example, as Norway (the highest percentage of GDP as foreign aid), or Canada.

Historically, the US Congress has traditionally viewed foreign aid with a great deal of suspicion, and it continues to do so.

As to the payment of social security to US expats, why shouldn't we receive it? We pay it after all, in the same proportion as those living in the US, and we therefore "earn" the right to it the same as any other US citizen.

As with most complex arguments, this is not a simple, "either or" situation. For me, and I think for most of the expats I know, there are certain elements of living overseas that are preferable (to us) to living in the US. At the same time, there are certain qualities--both material and otherwise--that are lacking and that all of us miss. Most of the expatriates I know fall into one of two categories:

1. They live overseas because that's where their jobs took them, and they adapted well to the life. My experience is that, after not very many years, people in this category (including myself) get classified by employers as those who have maximum value to their companies by living overseas. It's difficult therefore, to come back to the US and find equivalent jobs.

2. They moved overseas when they were older and about to retire, for the simple reason that their pensions and savings are insufficient to support them well in their home countries. Since US (or European) money stretches much further in the developing world, they chose to move overseas to attain a higher quality of life, in the material sense.

Expatriotism is not for everyone, and probably not for most people. Adaptation is often difficult, and even for those of us who have lived abroad for years, the occassional pangs of displacement and homesickness never go away completely.



GE

[Bill Buxton]

Why don't we close up the boarders,the free stuff to other countries and help just the ones here??Stop the social security to overseas foreigners living abrod,and all ex-military pensions to those living in other countries.Lets give our our country full control of setting things straight here.

The facts are we do what we do right or wrong,most of us would like to see a change here,but we still help out everyone else in the world.Remember that when you buy American living in the PI,all that shit you eat and drink and have on your back is not from everywhere else in the world.

How many old Hz bens from the states would cry if the goodies were stopped???You say I earned it well thats ok you did, and so am I every week helping you guys grow old in a different place.Jelous?no, just saying don't ***** about the farmer with your mouth full.We all live from the freedom America provides and we all take full advantage of it every day 24/7.America will serve anyone anytime night or day without question in a hospital or soup kitchen.Not ask for payment first before services are rendered.Is that the same in the PI I don't think so.I know you all living there think life is great and I also when I was there.Remember you are DIFFERENT.As was I we have income,we can support ourselves.How many of us go there and live like the locals do??? Not many That I saw,just the pompous foreigners strutting around bitching about the shit they have to deal with overseas.Sounds like they could not deal with the shit from where ever they were from so that's why they are there now.Lets put the cards on the table,call a spade a spade.We are different from each and every place,oz,france,the uk everywhere.We do have more than the locals and we ***** about what we don't have before what we do have.I am sure I left there 2 months ago thinking about the girl the cost of living feeling differently, but the general thought in my mind was I WAS LUCKY TO BE GOING HOME.I can assure you that my trip made me feel different and I think different now than before.I wake up feeling lucky to have a job and business here,and be able to go ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD I WANT without delay.

I do not look at material things like I did before,AND YES I HAD AND DO HAVE THEM ALL.The important thing in life is what I learned from the local culture,not some guy from another country.Be happy rich or poor,be happy with your family.Who would ever think that I had to go 9000 miles away at the age of 41 and learn a life's lesson like that.



B.B...

B.B...

[Columpuss]

The good US of F'in A

Attended my nephew's 8th grade graduation ceremony 2 days ago. The school is in a residential area. Most parents couldn't find proper parking space so some of us parked on the side walk on school's property but not completely blocking the side walk. The sign says "no parking before 5PM" reserved for school buses. The ceremony starts at 7pm. When it ends at 9, we came out and saw a line of cars, must be around 10 cars that was ticketed for parking on the side walk. now, it is not down town. Parking cops don't go around residential areas after 5 to give out tickets.

My conclusion: some patriotic American must have performed his or her civic duty to punish law breakers.
Those who don't live in this country, this is a crime free country. The only law breakers are parents who park illegaly

[Bill Buxton]

That's a good report "SH" And I agree with what you said about the getting drunk and acting stupid in the PI.Most of the problems here are from guys acting more stupid than they ever would in there own countries.

World famous;

B.B...

[Spam Hog]

[quote=frequent flier]columpuss,

although i do not keep up with all the data on killings or other violence in the usa or other countries. i do think it is reasonable that the murders, killings or persons going missing and later presumed dead and other violent acts are 99 percent accurately reported in coutries like the usa.

i do not think that in the philippines or other 3rd world nations there is even a 20% accuracy to how many people are murdered or go missing or have violent acts committed against them.

so i do not think you can really compare the two societies in relation as to which is safer in general.

that said, the pi and other 3rd world countries like the pi are probably, in relation to violent crimes, safer for foreigners. even in china if a violent crime is committed against a foreigner the local government will go all out to capture and punish all involved. most countries are all to aware of the importance of the tourist dollar.


gentlemen:

just my 2 cents on this note, as a former homicide detective, narcotics branch commander (usa wash dc) un sanctioned teacher (e. timor) private body guard (singapore) security consultant (singapore, malaysia and thailand) and martial arts teacher (thailand/philippines) i think im qualified to say a word or two on comparitive safety in the philippines as wellas thailand and a few other places i lived in worked in and traveled to in asia.

hands down the philippoines are safer for an expat westerner or touriost than the usa. we have much more random crime and violence than the phils.
i compare manila with washington dc where i wore various lawman badges for 23 years. wash dc is a cesspool where tourists are murdered, robbed, raped and injured at a higher rate, random violence, one minutes you are seeing the washington monument the next minute some junkie has a cheap pistol in your face and pistol whips you for your wallet and loose change.

violence towards foreigners does occur in the philippines, but in most cases some idiot brought it on himself, got drunk and mouthed off to some local or slapped around his gf. yeah you can say all you want about the abu sayeff and the npa, but vey clearly stay out of their territory and you wont have a problem with them. also stay out of anacostia and potomac gardens housing project in wash dc and bed sty or spanish harlem in new york, but it might not matter, the usa criminal is more mobile (that means he can drive a car) this makes people in the suburbs a car ride away from assholes from se dc with mayhem on their minds.

a great deal of the violence in the phils is connected to politics, live her a while and you understand the symbiosis between politics and family, its the patronage system, if my guy gets elected, you and your family who voted for me get all the breaks, meanwhile the guy who voted against me and his family get shit, pretty soon somebody gets tired of the short end of the stick and losing money and decides to hold an impeachment process with a 45, enough said, hold a review...

p.s. record keeping is a complete joke in this country, half the systems are not computerized and have to be hand searched by somebody who knows where the log book is

regards

spamhog

[Bill Buxton]

Have a nice day guys lighten up it's all in a day in our lives.

[Dragon Slayer]

Pals,

Just wondering about the guy who Posts all over the place. Does he actually go to any of these places. I travel far more than anyone I know and I know many wealthy, successful people due to my work. But I do not travel a fraction of what this one guy Posts. I have Posted so far in So China, Thailand, Toronto, Ca, London, UK and Phils. All during or after my Trips there.

I would say that it is likely this guy travels in his mind. Where are the photos??? I have posted several hundred photos on various sites. I have never posted about Japan but have had several erotic adventures there (need to Post the soon).

Anyway, Happy Father's Day to all.

Dragon Slayer

[Frequent Flier]

Columpuss,

Although I do not keep up with all the data on killings or other violence in the USA or other countries. I do think it is reasonable that the murders, killings or persons going missing and later presumed dead and other violent acts are 99 percent accurately reported in coutries like the USA.

I do not think that in the Philippines or other 3rd world nations there is even a 20% accuracy to how many people are murdered or go missing or have violent acts committed against them.

So I do not think you can really compare the two societies in relation as to which is safer in general.

That said, the PI and other 3rd world countries like the PI are probably, in relation to violent crimes, safer for foreigners. Even in China if a violent crime is committed against a foreigner the local government will go all out to capture and punish all involved. Most countries are all to aware of the importance of the tourist dollar.

FF