Thailand Politics

[LittleBigMan]

A worrying article.

http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpr...nt-is%C2%A0on/

Can they not understand it is only a liar who needs to control informaiton to protect the lies.

The truth sets everyone free. So many lies have been created and told since the coup in 2006 in order to disgrace and kick people out of power that the whole mass of lies is now teetering on collapse, and more and more people are shaking the ground.

The massive censorship and blocking can mean only one thing in the eyes of the world, and that is Thailand is now taken over by a junta. The shooting of civilians confirmed the "junta" control of Thailand to many people.

There is a article written in the Bangkok Post (Wednesday) Opinion & Analiysis written by Sawai Boonma " A guide to the perfect Thai idiot " page 9, that pretty much size things up for me about what is going on!

LBM

[Barko]

What you fail to appreciate is the majority of the people of Thailand wanted him.

Also, the 2006 coup was illegal and designed to prevent proper elections being run as "they" knew Thaksin would win.

In 2005 the Demcorats and Bangkok Mafia did illegal things to ensure the elections were voided, and in 2008 after PPP won they used a judicial coup to get PPP kicked out.

Whilst Thaksn was never a saint he DID NO WORSE than those presently in power and those behind those in power who are far more corrupt than Thaksin ever was.

This is where the "Its all Thaksin" argument falls down. He was corrupt, but not as corrupt as those still in the country and pulling the stings behind the scenes.

The people chose Thaksin because whilst he was corrupt, at least he gave them something.

This is why the country is in turmoil as the people want democracy and to be allowed to have something, whereas the ruling Elite want "normalcy" to return where the Elite get everything and the poor get nothing.

If the people want to vote in someone like Thaksin who they see as "less corrupt" than the other choices, then what is the problem? All your ranting over Thaksin ignores those who are more corrupt than him who are presently pulling the strings behind the scened and control the power/government.

This is not about Thaksin, its about the people wanting to kick out the old Yellow Elite, and if they need someone like Thaksin to help do it, they will use him.

Have you ever considered rather than Thaksin using the people, the people have found someone they can use to push their cause. Its the opposite of what the Thai media spins, but its more in line with actual reality, they are using him, he is using them and both are content.

Good lord. You have got to be shitting me. Flame bait. You need to get out in the real world more.

I've been here since Prem Tinsulanonda was in office. Seen them come and go, watched Thaksin Shinawatra fail in business time after time in Chiang Mai. (I lived in Chiang Mai for over 20 years, owned a home not far from Thaksin's father's house in San Khampaeng.) I've been to funerals with the guy and his entire family, (it's THE way shit gets done here BTW, not in some glitzy office. ) My girlfriend's father was tight with all of them, funded parties and vote buying, kept the Shins close, including aunts & uncles, brothers in law, etc. You virtually had to be around them if you wanted to make something of your life in Chiang Mai. I watched and listened while they sat in rows on special VIP couches in the Wats, making deals, (deal after deal,) backstabbing friends, dissing neighbors, playing "Let's fuck-em up and take all their money" games. Thaksin is no different than a common ex-cop turned mafiosi asshole.

History: Thaksin's family was rich, he was a very rich spoiled rotten kid, and, he was a total absolute fuck up. From the Silk company Ponzi scheme, to the ICSI computer ripoff in '82, to the sanctioning of small drug dealers in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai, to the the blackwater deals with the new airport, etc, etc, etc. Thaksin knew how to screw shit up, he never had to deal with what happened afterwards. Again, he was a very spoiled rich bratty ass wipe kid.

You still believe that he is better than the rest of them?

At risk of somebody realizing who I am: I'll admit I knew one of the tree sniper police in Chiang Mai, he was a nice guy, came to visit me when I was in the hospital, he hated his job, but was proud to be of service. Black skin tight shirt, camouflage pants, Honda Phantom (sound familiar?) He told me stories that shook me to the bone. Also, I was witness to a federally sanctioned killing in the main market in Chiang Rai... a man shot by a pillion rider on motorbike, small caliber hand gun, belly, chest, then head between the eyes, it happened right in front of me. And, it happened the same way thousands of times in Northern Thailand. No arrest, no court, no nothing. When it happens, and you see it, and you see the man fall, you smell his blood, you hear his daughters scream, you tend to get an attitude about the person that called for it. Thaksin is a murdering crook. Not to let any cats of the the bag, but my guess is he also ordered the hit on 'Seh Daeng' as well, the man was talking way too much, a stupid blurt, and if you heard what he was saying in the minutes before he was hit, then you knew surely it was time to turn him into gray flying Wat dust.

While he is no Pol Pot, Thaksin is most certainly a criminal of the first water.

And, no, you are absolutely wrong, most of the country does NOT support Thaksin, not even remotely, not any more. There is a huge middle class now, they aren't rich, they just get by, they all hate Thaksin like the devil incarnate. And they all know how much he pays for a vote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K6bGlnirgk

You really do need to get out more, live here a couple more decades, get your nose out of red shirt butt-holes (and get your facts straight.)

While I wish I could change things here, I can't really, but I can try to do what I can to educate the totally ignorant. I read, associate, stay involved, and I write. Again, the standard norm IQ of north eastern Thailand is 86, by & large they can't read more than a 4th grade level, and they live in a world of delightfully retarded rumor and superstition. Don't be one of them.

[Oldian]

After the war on the streets, now comes the "spin war".

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...117418018.html

From what I can see and hear a lot of Bangkok people (middle class) remain firmly anti-red. However this has been the case since Songkran 2009 and with this class of people being the "noticeable" type - in that they use internet and are "polled" by the media there is no real change. These same people supported the coup in 2006 and turned a blind eye to the PAD and shutting airports.

However the poorer area's of Bangkok have been turned more pro-red, the shootings by the army of innocent civilians has alienate more people away from the Democrats/BJT coalition.

In the north and north-east there is now a very strong pro-red feeling and the movment is growing there, growing far faster than anywhere else.

There are serious problems ahead, the Thai media is attempting to ignore it to portray only the Bangkok middle class view, but by doing so they are alientating even more the poor majority.

I see new red protests in Bangkok from late June or July onwards, so perhaps enjoy a month of calm whilst the fighting moves to the politicians/lawyers domain and the spin merchants before it all starts again on the streets next month or not long after.

Talking to a lot of the girls, I get a very different opinion. Many many of them say that their families used to be Red but have been disgusted by what has happened and no longer want anything to do with them. Most now see how totally paralyzed the tourist industry has become and are angry with the Reds for creating this. And then, I have even had girls that tell me that their father or mother was Red and that they weren't and this caused major disagreements in the family, but now mom and dad have ceased support after seeing what the mob did to Bangkok. I'm not so sure the Red majority up north is that.

[The Pro]

Even Chula academics calling for a return to freedom of expression.

That rather proves the point that presently things are out of hand and the government are censoring, banning, arresting, imprisoning anything and everything that poses a threat to the lies they have perpetuated.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newman...demic-freedom/

Most worrying. I would strongly suggest anyone in Thailand avoid all disucssion of Thai politics with any Thai's.

I had a chat recently with a Thai Bangkok middle class man (BMCM), he brought it up.

It went like this :

BMCM - The reds are very bad.

Me - Yes but they were frustrated that their protest was stopped by the military and civilians were shot by army snipers.

BMCM - But the riots were very bad, they damaged many buildings.

Me - Yes but many reds were shot dead, innocent civilians.

BMCM - Yes but the riots were terrible, very bad people.

Me - Yes, but many were shot dead by the army BEFORE that.

BMCM - But its all Thaksin's fault.

Me - Thought you might mention him, he was bad but the present people are far worse, they held a coup in 2006 just before elections, they have imposed many double standards.

BMCM - But its all Thaksins fault, he is to blame.

Me - Yes, he was not a good man, but the Elite are abusing all the systems, coups, military rule, killing civilians, fixing judiciary, censoring and blocking

BMCM - But its Thaksins fault, everything.

Me - Hold on, the army shot civilians

BMCM - But they rioted, it was very bad, many buildings burnt, its all Thaksin faults.

Me - Hang on, they were shot before the riots

BMCM - But its all Thaksins fault

At this point I just give up - far too much brainwashing and censorship in Thailand now, the Bangkok middle class people have their heads so far up their own arses its quite pathetic.

[The Pro]

A worrying article.

http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpr...nt-is%C2%A0on/

Can they not understand it is only a liar who needs to control informaiton to protect the lies.

The truth sets everyone free. So many lies have been created and told since the coup in 2006 in order to disgrace and kick people out of power that the whole mass of lies is now teetering on collapse, and more and more people are shaking the ground.

The massive censorship and blocking can mean only one thing in the eyes of the world, and that is Thailand is now taken over by a junta. The shooting of civilians confirmed the "junta" control of Thailand to many people.

[The Pro]

rant rant rant.

What you fail to appreciate is the majority of the people of Thailand wanted him.

Also, the 2006 coup was illegal and designed to prevent proper elections being run as "they" knew Thaksin would win.

In 2005 the Demcorats and Bangkok Mafia did illegal things to ensure the elections were voided, and in 2008 after PPP won they used a judicial coup to get PPP kicked out.

Whilst Thaksn was never a saint he DID NO WORSE than those presently in power and those behind those in power who are far more corrupt than Thaksin ever was.

This is where the "Its all Thaksin" argument falls down. He was corrupt, but not as corrupt as those still in the country and pulling the stings behind the scenes.

The people chose Thaksin because whilst he was corrupt, at least he gave them something.

This is why the country is in turmoil as the people want democracy and to be allowed to have something, whereas the ruling Elite want "normalcy" to return where the Elite get everything and the poor get nothing.

If the people want to vote in someone like Thaksin who they see as "less corrupt" than the other choices, then what is the problem? All your ranting over Thaksin ignores those who are more corrupt than him who are presently pulling the strings behind the scened and control the power/government.

This is not about Thaksin, its about the people wanting to kick out the old Yellow Elite, and if they need someone like Thaksin to help do it, they will use him.

Have you ever considered rather than Thaksin using the people, the people have found someone they can use to push their cause. Its the opposite of what the Thai media spins, but its more in line with actual reality, they are using him, he is using them and both are content.

[Professor 1]

Has anyone on this board ever had their computer checked at Thai customs?

No, I have not. Only U.S. customs appears to exhibit an interest.

[NicFrenchy]

Has anyone on this board ever had their computer checked at Thai customs?

Never in over 100 trips overseas

[BionicMan]

Has anyone on this board ever had their computer checked at Thai customs?

never! approx 5 times through customs in one year, but nobody ever checked anything!

[Barko]

Has anyone on this board ever had their computer checked at Thai customs?

Fuck no, not ever, and I carry two laptops, 8 encrypted hardisks, 20 or so (1-32GB) flashdrives & cards, and a ton of snarly wires & hardware (everywhere I go.)

To get reamed you have to have been fingered first.

But then, I am not a kid, so WTF do I know?

[Barko]

Oh dear! One of the propagandists appears to have made it to ISG's Thai political discussions .

Terry, umm, this is the Ex-Pat forum for people that live here, did you actually see any of the thousands of sharpened punji sticks pointing out from Lumpini and Langsuan? Did you actually hear any of the violent droning rhetoric blaring from the loudspeakers? Clue: It wasn't the singing of "We will overcome" and "Give peace a chance". It was, "We will die here" and "Force Abhisit out", and "We will take the streets of Bangkok one by one until Abhisit is gone forever", and "Let mine be the first blood, let them come take my blood on the street".

Sure, I knew that something bad and extremely violent was about to happen. It takes money to fund something like this, and lots of it. Yes, the money came from Thaksin Shinawatra, then twisted and molded by the likes of "Seh Daeng".

Now, where is the propaganda? You HAVE to understand that media, in and of itself, needs to sell a product. I don't, no I don't. I have no agenda. All I know is how it all effects me, my associates, and all my friends, both Thai and farang.

By the way. Were you on foot, on a motorcycle, in a car? How did you feel when YOU saw the madness on Radjadamri and Langsuan? Well, I guess you just didn't, did you?

No rant. I live here. I have many many friends on both sides of it. Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Phrae, Ubon, Udon, Loei, Korat, Surin, Phuket, Trang, Songkla, etc, etc, etc. I live it, have lived on both sides and been involved in all of it for nearly 28 years. All I can do is tell you how it makes ME feel, that's it.

You?

[Fon Tok]

Lifeingr, just be careful about how you hold the info you are reading up on. If you are downloading it to a laptop, make sure it's thoroughly erased when you are passing through Thai customs control. They occasionally do spot-checks, and some of this stuff would get you deeply into the doo doo.

Has anyone on this board ever had their computer checked at Thai customs?

[Terry Terrier]

After the war on the streets, now comes the "spin war".

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...117418018.html

From what I can see and hear a lot of Bangkok people (middle class) remain firmly anti-red. However this has been the case since Songkran 2009 and with this class of people being the "noticeable" type - in that they use internet and are "polled" by the media there is no real change. These same people supported the coup in 2006 and turned a blind eye to the PAD and shutting airports.

However the poorer area's of Bangkok have been turned more pro-red, the shootings by the army of innocent civilians has alienate more people away from the Democrats/BJT coalition.

In the north and north-east there is now a very strong pro-red feeling and the movment is growing there, growing far faster than anywhere else.

There are serious problems ahead, the Thai media is attempting to ignore it to portray only the Bangkok middle class view, but by doing so they are alientating even more the poor majority.

I see new red protests in Bangkok from late June or July onwards, so perhaps enjoy a month of calm whilst the fighting moves to the politicians/lawyers domain and the spin merchants before it all starts again on the streets next month or not long after.

Yes, I fear that things are now going to get worse. And the saddest aspect is that the options for a reconciliation government are disappearing up the river. I wrote at the time that he became prime minister that Abhisit had made a huge mistake. At the time, he was one of the cleanest politicians around. If he'd waited until he was really needed he could have been a major player in a reconciliation government, even rising to the very top on merit. As it is, he jumped the gun and has been used, abused and will eventually be spat out by the Bangkok mafioso.

[Terry Terrier]

Very... rant...rant...rant...

Oh dear! One of the propagandists appears to have made it to ISG's Thai political discussions .

Lifeingr, just be careful about how you hold the info you are reading up on. If you are downloading it to a laptop, make sure it's thoroughly erased when you are passing through Thai customs control. They occasionally do spot-checks, and some of this stuff would get you deeply into the doo doo.

btw, large tracts of the banned book about the unsmiling sovereign that G referred to can be read online here:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=d...0state&f=false

[Lifeingr]

If it's the forum I'm thinking of, you will always have major issues discussing Thai politics there. For starters, that forum is based in Thailand, so discussion of the Royal Family and judicial decisions are not only against that forum's rules, but against Thai law thus leaving that forum open to prosecution if stated discussions occur.

For seconds, there is a long history of anti-Thaksin forum moderation on that forum (no bad thing imo) which eventually mutated into a very pro-Demo editorial policy (bad thing imo).

And for thirds, that forum is hopelessly infested with political propagandists from both sides of the divide, though the editorial policy tends to indulge the pro-Demo propagandists somewhat.

Yes, you are right. The forum implied is now an arena of propaganda from both sites. Videos, photos, clippings everything in the "war". The main problem as you say it is that now the moderation is a bit "fascist" towards the direction you mention. My posts included NOTHING on the Royal Family but some senior members didn't like them; I have to admit I used strong language to criticize the censorship issue. No problem I learned some things form there.

I know you probably don't mind but today I finished my first book on Thailand's history. Well it seems that the arguments between the rural and "elite" have deep roots! I also understood that Thailand is a very very young nation-state (young relatively to the historical perspective of time) and this of course adds to the complexity. After reading the book some things make more sense to me now. Still I am not sure if I can support one of the two groups by absolute terms but I think the point is not there. It seems obvious for me that unrest and political problems in Thailand will continue to happen for decades. It is more or less part of a process to build a nation-state. Bearing in mind that it needs many centuries (if not milenia) to build strong nation-states Thailand has a lot of time in front to be a strong stable nation-state!