FKK Artemis - Berlin

[AColonizer]

I have read the second post and I can't continue reading.

I wonder the reason men forgot sex market and sex service were and are paid on a time unit. Within a time unit, customers can ask everything, and I mean everything, to a prostitute. If a prostitute can't or doesn't fulfill the ordered service, then she returns the money as soon as possible. I say, prostitutes in the past USSR were usually paid at the end of the service, when customers were happy of her service, and this rule was a warranty of satisfaction and professionalism. I say, I had some experiences of this kind. And I know men who are getting this kind of service by Slavic prostitutes in Western countries. Therefore, it is still possible to get an incredible service at a honest price even nowadays!

Instead, when prostitutes talk about the time and irrespective of customers' satisfaction, then this means just one result: a scam! It is not necessary any experience to understand this behavior, since this rule is common in any kind of business in any kind of place in the world!

Moreover, if you still think prostitutes are the weakest link in the sex market, then you shouldn't pretend to ignore prostitutes buy any kind of narcotics and they re-sell them to their customers, and they search and promote new girls to transform in prostitutes. At the end, women exploit other women and they make them drug addicted!

Hey PayForIt.

You should try and negotiate a pay per minute service. If a girl cheats you out or wants to finish early, just say you were only in here for 25 minutes so 50 Euros. The Anal pay per minute rate would be higher, of course. For a long session, the girl will make 220 Euros per hour, same as before, but if she tries to cheat you, then pay her 3. 67 Euros per minute up to a maximum of 220 Euros. Fair is fair. LOL.

FiddyCent.

[BackpackBrian]

What I hear from other mongers is that, well, it won't happen, it won't go up that high ( 100/30 min) or if it does Artemis mongers will just go to other clubs! What I think is easily overlooked is with an open market price creep starts relatively slowly, similar to raising taxes (ex. Lets just raise the taxes a little bit! So next month we might have only a 5-10 Euro increase for 30 min. And then in 1 year it will be another 5-10 Euro. And if you think it will only be at Artemis you are surely wrong. It will happen at all FKK's. Once the word gets out, which would be within hours, all clubs will increase their prices. All clubs already coordinate how much to charge, that's why all clubs cost approximately $50, with Artemis being the exception, charging 60. Before you take your next trip in two years you be looking at a standard 115 Euro /30 session standard cost. Maybe I'm venting here for nothing! Just want to make sure the prices stay at the point where I can keep doing this for a very long time and not spend a small fortune doing it.

[Mr Ho]

I completely agree. I do understand the risk of inflation set out by BackpackBrian. But I think it is unlikely to happen. Whilst Artemis has a monopoly in Berlin (ergo risk of inflation due to closed market) the girls know that a high percentage of the clientele are foreign tourists who will simply fly to other destinations all over Germany to engage their needs. The Club would only be attractive then to locals, and given the weakness of the LU, the recent raid and the high entry cost (80 being the highest I've paid in any German FKK) increasing the prices to $300-400 would just kill the club off. The girls are not stupid. They know what the market will stand. The fixed pricing is of course not possible to enforce post raid as it was one of the reasons given for the raid in the first place. That the girls are no more than employees and not independent if they are restricted on price and services. So the notion of sticking with the fixed rate is not viable. Albeit that the girls may, amongst themselves, agree it. I actually wonder if there may be a greater risk of this going the other way. And for the less attractive girls to now feel free to offer much cheaper sessions. That would be entirely fair of course. That the price reflects demand. The prettiest sexiest girls being able to charge higher than 60/30 as they can get it and the less glamorous ladies having to offer discounts to attract trade. Now that really would be an open market!

I mean if girls begin to abuse this already premium entrance price and also premium 10 euro plus fee per 30 min session comparison to other FKK and begin up sell more and provide bogus service even you agree to up sell price, then they will lose big chunk of business as we simply go to other FKK in Germany where there are few FKK within close range of the city.

Also up sell is annoying and even they charge more to provide empty promise to the money they charge, then pro mongers will just go to Globe Zurich where the service is guaranteed by the club for charging higher price than FKK in Germany, this is very Switzerland, you pay more, but service is guaranteed. In German FKK, up sell by girls often end up in bogus empty promise.

I have bought up sell before and I had best experience sometimes, so if girls can guarantee they will deliver I do not mind mild upsell, but this is where difficulty begin to kicks in.

In the end, it is human related service business so we just got to know what we are doing and also we just got to be lucky.

Artemis just need to freshen up LU with more younger girls. Up sell at Artemis is not that bad though.

[Dr Jekyll]

Artemis again after staying away for half a year. It was a Tuesday night, I arrived at about seven and the choice of girls was underwhelming. Just as last time I couldn't find any of my favorites.

One more thing, about those absent favourites. Even though I actually did manage to find one of them later that night (see my report below), there were a couple of girls that I had really hoped to meet: Does anybody know if Romanian Antonia (petite friendly girl, natural tits and wonderful ass) and / or Spanish Alessandra (petite friendly girl, natural tits and wonderful ass) are still working at Artemis? I hope so, I really miss them, especially Antonia. Any intel on them would be much appreciated!

[Pistons]

Different price for different girls are not the way. Not in europe at least as our mentality is of socialism. Besides it could lead to too many other variations like Dutedarc described in another thread here. If they start with that, then I'm off. The top Artemis girls are real top notch. Top 5 or so. But I hardly ever see all of them at the same time. And options are fading and ageing.

It was better last year with Jayda from Stuttgart and a few others, but have anyone seen her lately?

[PayForIt]

I mean they are already charging 10 euro extras per 30 min than any other clubs in Germany.

Either way, we can just go to other clubs if they begin to change something drastically like price they already are charging more than other clubs.

Current prices are good enough and I hope girls have enough brain to realize that they already are charging more than other clubs and offering same or worst service and LU are same or worst than other clubs in Germany.

I completely agree. I do understand the risk of inflation set out by BackpackBrian. But I think it is unlikely to happen. Whilst Artemis has a monopoly in Berlin (ergo risk of inflation due to closed market) the girls know that a high percentage of the clientele are foreign tourists who will simply fly to other destinations all over Germany to engage their needs. The Club would only be attractive then to locals, and given the weakness of the LU, the recent raid and the high entry cost (80 being the highest I've paid in any German FKK) increasing the prices to $300-400 would just kill the club off. The girls are not stupid. They know what the market will stand. The fixed pricing is of course not possible to enforce post raid as it was one of the reasons given for the raid in the first place. That the girls are no more than employees and not independent if they are restricted on price and services. So the notion of sticking with the fixed rate is not viable. Albeit that the girls may, amongst themselves, agree it. I actually wonder if there may be a greater risk of this going the other way. And for the less attractive girls to now feel free to offer much cheaper sessions. That would be entirely fair of course. That the price reflects demand. The prettiest sexiest girls being able to charge higher than 60/30 as they can get it and the less glamorous ladies having to offer discounts to attract trade. Now that really would be an open market!

[Mr Ho]

The girls at artemis have a loose agreement among themselves to stick to the old prices. Lets hope it last. I am sure they have to see it as keeping up the reputation of their club as well.

I mean they are already charging 10 euro extras per 30 min than any other clubs in Germany.

Either way, we can just go to other clubs if they begin to change something drastically like price they already are charging more than other clubs.

Current prices are good enough and I hope girls have enough brain to realize that they already are charging more than other clubs and offering same or worst service and LU are same or worst than other clubs in Germany.

[Pistons]

The girls at artemis have a loose agreement among themselves to stick to the old prices. Lets hope it last. I am sure they have to see it as keeping up the reputation of their club as well.

[BackpackBrian]

This is really interesting and could have benefits as well as downsides. I'm there in a couple of weeks time and this new "everything is negotiable" policy will suit me fine as I don't like short room times and for me to be able to say I'll do 30 minutes for 60, or 60 minutes for 100 or 90 minutes for 140 is a benefit. Even if I do the usual 60 for 30 minutes to see if the girl / chemistry is working, it is still a really good bargaining position to be in instead of the fixed price policy in every other FKK club. In the past if I'd offered less for long time I would have been laughed at. Now I can say it's all negotiable and if the girl wants to say no that is up to her. In days gone by if girls did negotiate others would complain if they found out as it was considered unfair. Should be fun and add a bit of spice to the lounge discussions.

The only problem with your so called open market is that in a short period of time, girls rate will start to inflate to market value ( 60 Euro for 30 min), soon it will be 100 Euro for 30 min then in 6 months it will be 110 Euro for 30 min, etc, etc. You see this in the brothels in Nevada where fat, ugly older aged women start their services at $300-$400, some more and a few are less. It's my opinion that the market rate at $60/30 min is under the market value, it has to be. I've been going to Artemis and FKK's for 10+ years and the prices haven't ever changed or gone up!

NOW I'm all in favor of an open market, I'm a capitalist here in the USA, but I do like the system in Germany with fixed prices for FS, keep the socialist sex trade in Germany the way it is and I'm good to fly over there 2-3 times a year.

[BackpackBrian]

This just isn't the reality of Artemis post-raid as I experienced on a recent visit. There is no longer a standard club rate of EUR 60 (note that figure vanished from their website shortly after the raid) and no standard service. When I entered, reception told me all services / rates had to be negotiated with each girl, and this was certainly the way it worked out.

The girls have the right to offer whatever services they like at whatever rate they choose. We have the right to accept / refuse / negotiate, but you can't demand anything "should be" or is "meant to be" provided at a certain rate. Most seemed to be sticking with EUR 60 for BBBJ and sex, but that's simply their choice. So, I recommend doing all your negotiating in the lounge before you head off to a room and the clock starts running.

As for accepting DFK as a service at Artemis, it's very much YMMV in terms of quality, and my advice would be to decline, as it most often ends up as LFK at best and a very token effort at worst.

Thanks for the advice. I'll make sure to do all the negotiations before I go to the room. It's what I usually do. About the price being taken down off the website after the raid. It's probably because of the laws stating you can't set prices and the girls are independent contractors who can charge what they want, even though there is discussion about what will be charged beforehand.

[ShoesAndSocks]

The rate and service remained more or less the same after the raid, I was there last month 7 days and it was as it was.

Of course some DFK some do not, it is up to us who we choose to go with, all clubs are like this beside Globe Zurich.

I agree. On all my pre-raid visits I encountered girls who ignored the EUR 60 for 30 mins and pitched their own price package, so it isn't a huge change for us.

It's always been and still remains a case of spying one you like, and then finding out how she operates.

I would rather not have to negotiate. I just find it a hassle in what should be a simple pleasure.

[FiddyCent]

This is really interesting and could have benefits as well as downsides. I'm there in a couple of weeks time and this new "everything is negotiable" policy will suit me fine as I don't like short room times and for me to be able to say I'll do 30 minutes for 60, or 60 minutes for 100 or 90 minutes for 140 is a benefit. Even if I do the usual 60 for 30 minutes to see if the girl / chemistry is working, it is still a really good bargaining position to be in instead of the fixed price policy in every other FKK club. In the past if I'd offered less for long time I would have been laughed at. Now I can say it's all negotiable and if the girl wants to say no that is up to her. In days gone by if girls did negotiate others would complain if they found out as it was considered unfair. Should be fun and add a bit of spice to the lounge discussions.

Hey PayForIt.

You should try and negotiate a pay per minute service. If a girl cheats you out or wants to finish early, just say you were only in here for 25 minutes so 50 Euros. The Anal pay per minute rate would be higher, of course. For a long session, the girl will make 220 Euros per hour, same as before, but if she tries to cheat you, then pay her 3. 67 Euros per minute up to a maximum of 220 Euros. Fair is fair. LOL.

FiddyCent.

[PayForIt]

This just isn't the reality of Artemis post-raid as I experienced on a recent visit. There is no longer a standard club rate of EUR 60 (note that figure vanished from their website shortly after the raid) and no standard service. When I entered, reception told me all services / rates had to be negotiated with each girl, and this was certainly the way it worked out.

The girls have the right to offer whatever services they like at whatever rate they choose. We have the right to accept / refuse / negotiate, but you can't demand anything "should be" or is "meant to be" provided at a certain rate.

This is really interesting and could have benefits as well as downsides. I'm there in a couple of weeks time and this new "everything is negotiable" policy will suit me fine as I don't like short room times and for me to be able to say I'll do 30 minutes for 60, or 60 minutes for 100 or 90 minutes for 140 is a benefit. Even if I do the usual 60 for 30 minutes to see if the girl / chemistry is working, it is still a really good bargaining position to be in instead of the fixed price policy in every other FKK club. In the past if I'd offered less for long time I would have been laughed at. Now I can say it's all negotiable and if the girl wants to say no that is up to her. In days gone by if girls did negotiate others would complain if they found out as it was considered unfair. Should be fun and add a bit of spice to the lounge discussions.

[Mr Ho]

The rate and service remained more or less the same after the raid, I was there last month 7 days and it was as it was.

Of course some DFK some do not, it is up to us who we choose to go with, all clubs are like this beside Globe Zurich.

[AColonizer]

In any negotiations, we negotiate a set of services at a defined price.

The problem is often, and in any place in the world, prostitutes don't fulfill the negotiated service because money is paid in advance.

Therefore, when customers go in a closed place as a club / brothel, they pay all money in advance, there is not a list of standard services and customers have no way to dispute the service, then this means doubles that club / brothel promotes frauds and scams!