FKK FAQ

[Iseeu]

any reasons why in frankfurt we have 4 fkk and in berlin, not a little city..., only 1 fkk ?

i can only speculate. there are so many other p4p options in berlin. up until a few years back there was not even artemis. it may also have to do with the city not wanting too many of that sort of businesses. it does surprise me though that there are no other fkk close, like a half hour's drive from berlin. but i am not sure why this is. am

i'd suggest that there are a number of factors at play here. the 3 rules for opening a new retail business are:
1: location
2: location
3: location

someone thinking of opening up a new fkk has to consider the following:
1. location rule #1: yes, berlin is an important city but it's tam (total available market) is relatively small because;
a) berlin region has a population of about 3.5 million, while the hessen region surrounding frankfurt has 6.5 million
b) there are many other affordable established p4p options while fra has a dearth of other options,
c) while it attracts tourists and government business, it's less important as a commercial center and doesn't have a major international airport, so it attracts fewer international business travellers,
d) berlin is further away from the major population centers of western europe where the expendable income resides and to its east is a relatively economically depressed region.

2. location rule #2:
a) if you think about it, artemis really has the prime location for a club of this type in the city; near the messe, on the west side of the city, large variety of hotels in every range not far away, a number of public transport options nearby, close to major thoroughfares, yet in an unobtrusive non-residential area.
b) any new club that would open would have to compete with a's primo location, established well run business, reputation and loyal customer base, plus the multitude of other p4p businesses rep001tered throughout the city.

3. location rule #3: finding the right facility at the right cost can be a challenge. it would need municipal zoning permits to be able to get building and business licenses. plus they would have to factor into their business plan the capital expenditure for refurbishment, operating expenses for the facility and launch costs such as publicity, licenses etc. whoever it is, would need deep pockets and/or access to other sources of funding which have been very tight the last couple of years.

a couple of years back, i developed a business plan for the opening of a club. i figured, who could be better at this than a regular customer of the fkk club concept? unfortunately, the location that i had in mind, didn't meet the criteria of location, location, location. but that's another story...

then again, maybe lukasek has a point here and it's time to pull that plan out of mothballs. any one have 5 million euro to lend me?

[Atooz]

If it was only a problem that normal people in Berlin do not like FKK, they could easily open one well hidden, for example.

Hi Lukasek, if you're implying that there is only one FKK club in Berlin because the politicians and sex industry businessmen wanted to keep a low profile to avoid backlash from the general population, I am quite sure that is not the case. Artemis is not shy about advertising its existence as many of the big city buses are completely covered with Artemis advertising wraps.

[Eros74]

...It may also have to do with the city not wanting too many of that sort of businesses. It does surprise me though that there are no other FKK close, like a half hour's drive from Berlin....

Ok I am happy you found it strange too and yes, I guess it may have to do something with the city.

Who knows, probably the owner of Artemis knows some "good" politics, cause no point there is one FKK but not two.

If it was only a problem that normal people in Berlin do not like FKK, they could easily open one well hidden, for example.

From one point of view one FKK big as Artemis is more than enough, but on the other hands, to have 2 FKK in the same city it is good for us mongers, because it could make them to fight to get more customers, cheaper price, better girls and so on.

One FKK it means, the owner decides the price and take it or leave it.

[Nille Copenhagen]

any reasons why in Frankfurt we have 4 FKK and in Berlin, not a little city..., only 1 FKK ?

Hi Lukasek,

I think is because Artemis has a size that is big enough for Berlin and the owner of Artemis is a powerful and clever business man - that can ensure "there can only be one" .

Funny thought, Hamburg is a big city as well and there you have several FKK clubs.

Nille

[Angus Magee]

Hi AM,

any reasons why in Frankfurt we have 4 FKK and in Berlin, not a little city..., only 1 FKK ?

I can only speculate. There are so many other P4P options in Berlin. Up until a few years back there was not even Artemis. It may also have to do with the city not wanting too many of that sort of businesses. It does surprise me though that there are no other FKK close, like a half hour's drive from Berlin. But I am not sure why this is. There was a second FKK (Club Aphrodite) that had a website and kept threatening to open in Spandau. But that is as far as it went.The place never opened and the web site disappeared. Just as well, it looked lame.

AM

[Nille Copenhagen]

Mark User

If you are adventurous.

Try this club, it not a FKK club, but lots of sex do happen here. Good value for the money.

http://www.insomnia-berlin.de/

[Eros74]

...But as for the FKK style club Artemis is it...

Hi AM,

any reasons why in Frankfurt we have 4 FKK and in Berlin, not a little city..., only 1 FKK ?

[Angus Magee]

Moved from Travel section:

Is there a 2nd or 3rd choice in Berlin?
I'll be in Berlin soon and hope to sample Artemis, but the higher entry and per sessions costs compared to Hessen clubs begs the question, are there alternatives in Berlin that any of you would recommend?

Not in the same market. That is there are a couple of flat rate clubs which are way, way beneath Artemis' standard. See the Berlin thread, my King George report for a pretty accurate telling of the tale. Or see my blog, www.angusmagee.com for an overview of the whole Berlin scene in 5 parts.

There is also Bel Ami of which little has been written on the forum. It is, as I understand, not such a bad place if you are willing to drop some coin. That is do not show up asking if bbbj is extra and expect to be treated well. Bring your bank roll and losen its' strings. Some guys consider the place a rip off. While I have never been so I can not say for sure, I rather think it is just a place where they want the guys who do not blink at spending 5,6 or even 7 hundred EUR in an evening. Guys who order champagne without looking at the price, at least in an obvious manner.

But as for the FKK style club Artemis is it. Oh unless you count La Folie which is cheaper but is a bar and not really up to Artemis quality.

AM

[Hessen Bub]

Artemis does have some unique and strange rules, they try to completely isolate girls from customers and want to keep them from meeting customers outside the club as they wanna make cash on the entry on boys & girls.

So they try to prevent the exchange of numbers. Acapulco in Velbert tries the same shit. So just exchange numbers in the room and not in an open area.

@Hercules78: If you book a girl (inside the club) for 6 hours, she should be able to make you a special price that is below 600 EUR. That would be the standard pricing in a Hessen club. Depends on the service you want, your negotiation skills and how handsome you are.

HB

[Angus Magee]

Nah. Several girls have given me their number right at the front desk. They've even borrowed pen & paper there.

Who knows, at Artemis there was a girl who assured me that to give a number or even use a pen & paper in the open bar was a sure firing and banning for her. She did give me her number but used a very elaborate cloak & dagger method to do so.

A couple months later I was talking to a different girl at the bar. I mentioned something (I forget what it was) to which I had info. She then grabbed a piece of papper from the bar tender and borrowed the managers pen (he was at the bar) and had me write it down.

Who knows what the "rules" are. I think the girls do sometimes make them up as the are uncertain about whether or not the wan to give their number and they stall for time.

I would urge caution, but don't take what the girls say too seriously. Ask, if she wants to she will find a way with which she is comfortable. If you are too insistent, she will be less likely to give it out.

[Nille Copenhagen]

Nah. Several girls have given me their number right at the front desk. They've even borrowed pen & paper there.

Ok, it depends on which club you are at. But the safest is to ask her number in privacy.

[Suller Joe]

Outside the room she would not dare exchanging numbers due to sec. cameras. She could get fired or a fine.

Nah. Several girls have given me their number right at the front desk. They've even borrowed pen & paper there.

[Suller Joe]

Dear Suller Joe,

Thanks for some new ideas. If I want to make a girl my girlfriend for the evening, how much does she charge for 6-8 hrs. Any ballpark?

€100/hr, YMMV.

[Suller Joe]

Hi SJ,

Thanks for the tips. I was wondering how this one worked. Can you give more details? I'd be very grateful if you could.

So far I have only had communication outside a club with one FKK girl and she gave me her email address - which I had to memorise.

LT

Ask the girl for her number. If she wants to give it to you, she will write it down. Some never do. Then just start texting/SMSing.

Obviously: The better chemistry between you, the more generous you are (the longer session you book) - the more likely she'll respect an advance booking.

[Simpleminded]

Hello, everyone,

I will be in Frankfurt to visit the FKK clubs in October. I have been reading the forum and got a lot of great info. I plan on visiting Paradise, World and Oase, although my friend who is familiar with them said I will probably visit World and Paradise once and spend the rest of my trip (5 days) at Oase.

I think I have figured out how to get to World and Oase by train, but since I will be traveling with a friend I am wondering if it will be not much more expensive per person to just take a taxi to both World and Oase?

I plan on staying at a hotel close to the Frankfurt main train terminal but have not picked one yet. If anyone can recommend one I'd appreciate it as it seems there are many to choose from in the $50 to $70 a night range.

For anyone needing directions to World and Oase from Frankfurt main terminal:

Oase: On the S-bahn platform in the lower level platform 103/104, take the S-5 Train to Friedrichsdorf. Then take a taxi for about 10 Euros.

World: Take the RE (regional express) to Giessen (spelled like GieBen). The train is about 13. 5 Euros each way and takes about 40 minutes. Take a taxi

From there for about 20 Euro and 10 minutes.

Check the schedules at www.Bahn.de

I will be there from Oct 15 to 19 so if anybody wants to meet up just pm me.