FKK FAQ

[Dick Travel]

Hi all,

Thanks again for all the responses to my question re reccomendations for learning some German.

Several of you rightly pointed out how to go about it very much depends on my objectives and the time available to me.

Well, having been to various FKK's now and stayed in various places etc and each time got by with a nervously spoken Guten Tag and little more, the time has come to pull my blummin finger out and stop being the stereotypical language lazy Englishman, show some respect to my hosts and at least try and learn a few phrases of their language!

(as an aside when I'm meeting an FKK girl I like to try and be able to pass some comment on their home country, even if I've not visited. Failing that at least refer to the capital correctly, perhaps by asking if they live far from it. It perhaps shows we might possibly consider their countries have something more interesting to remark upon than the fair maidens they produce ! It's a token gesture maybe, but I think perhaps the effort is noted and seen as a sign of some respect being given to them as people and not just meat !)

Do you know what, I digress more than Ronnie Corbett telling a story sometimes.

Anyway, as I was saying before I got distracted...

I did enjoy learning French and found I learnt quite easily, so hopefully I have the skills to pick up some German fairly well too.

My aim is just to be able to get by with greetings, travel, introductions and hopefully onto a little small talk. If I get onto more than that then fabulous but becoming anything like semi fluent is not a goal of mine. At least not yet but one day who knows.

Timewise, I'm limited and much as I'd love to spend a week or two immersed in Germany on a course, what time I can spend there has other things to do which provide much more ready satisfaction, even if short term ;-)

Anyway, I seem to have fallen on my feet with a product which was on special offer in a local emporium...

"Berlitz German Premier" which comprises
a) a multimedia package which comprises several panes enabling one to view a video of an interaction scenario performed by German natives, follow the German transcript complete with words highlighting in time and if struggling follow an English translation in a further pane. One can stop/start/slow down etc at will and more.
It also contains some activities/games such as crosswords etc to further enable vocabulary build up, Flashcards and more.
Finally, I have not tried it yet, but it will also record ones voice and show you the waveform alongside the native speakers so you can observe and listen back to your pronunciation etc while responding to questions / playing a part in a conversation.

b) A set of CD's forming an audio tutor for basic conversations/scenarios
c) Discs with ipod excercises and mp3 files
d) Flash card software for Palm or Pocket PC.
e) Vocab building screensaver

All for £20 in WHSmiths!

So, it seems to have all approaches and I'm quite positive I should be able to master what I am seeking to.
If anyone is interested to hear how I got on / am getting on feel free to PM for a review once I've had some time to try it fully.


The multitude of tips are much appreciated and I shall be exploring the links such as the Deutsche Welle website too.


Mmmm, maybe some Romanian might be more useful for this game!
I certainly enjoyed picking up some Russian from a very fine young lady from a Moscow Tochka, not that body parts and sexy compliments would be much use booking a train ticket ;-)

Thanks again guys,

Gute nacht

DT

[Johnny Z]

This forum has been an immensely rich resource for me as I prepare for my first trip-with-hobby-bonus to Germany.

I even learned to use the search after I saw a "gentle" reminder from one of the regular posters to someone asking a question for the 5, 387th time. Looked up and there it was at the top of the page. Worked, too. I easily found the answer to my question about bringing my own condoms, although I'm still not sure what to do with them while I'm there (where a long string of them as a chain around my neck? Stuff a few into the crack of my ass? I don't think I can walk around that tightly). Well, there are some things you just have to wait until you're there to learn.

But it was just coincidence that I found Jackyo's post from two years ago indexing other posts (#1833). His first links to Routard's descriptions (#1576, particularly the first part) and some tips on what girls expect (#1492) are really good. That got me to thinking how easy it is to overwhelm a thread like this with the ongoing contributions such as the pleasant conversation going on below.

Is it possible to create a true FAQ resource thread, which is open to only a few of the most obsessively well-informed contributors (Jackyo, Ieeu, Wan King, Routard, couple others. You guys know who you are)? That way, something like Jackyo's index post could be organized and kept up to date. For example, the second part of Routard's primer in #1576 is the type of thing with a very short half life.

It would be great to have such information at the newbie's fingertips.

The tricky thing for me is not getting my Puffdeutsch vocabulary mixed up with my normal, daily German.

I once described a mutual friend of ours to a woman I know as naturgeil. That raised her eyebrows.

Also, they are usually quite surprised I know about towns like Hennef and Altenstadt.

When I enter a club, I screen for comprehension. I don't go with women I can't understand. This automatically excludes most of the EE women who are just Fresh Off the Bus (FOB) (If she speaks no German at all, how did she make it across all of Central Europe to get there on her own? ) This is my contribution to political correctness.

Jackyo is right, I can see I'm definitely going to have to watch myself if I keep doing this to make sure I don't show too much knowledge of crude expressions and of those places which all my German friends would certainly know about but which would never by mentioned in polite conversation with foreign friends.

Regarding the conversation below, you can put me on the side of those saying Germans are appreciative of those trying to speak the language and awfully patient with them. The french are to one side of that extreme (although this is breaking down as even the french start to realize that most people around the world don't think their language or their culture or even their cuisine or wine is that special) and the Germans to the other (although, as in the flag-waving example cited below, that is starting to change a bit as they regain their national self-confidence).

My last little remark is that I don't think the lack of German language skills necessarily implies anything sinister. All it takes is one person in a group to know a little German and all her friends can get around. Point well taken on the fact that we really have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, though.

[Ekliges Lauern]

The language is very precise and speaking a pidgin form of it isn't cool unless you don't mind being lumped together with those Turkish Gastarbeiter who've lived there for over thirty years and still don't speak German properly.

I'll pass over the xenophobic aspects of the comment to politely disagree.

As my German grew over time, I found most Germans very polite and appreciative that I was using their language, even if I do make grammatical errors and occassionally struggled with the vocabulary. Most Germans seem pleasantly surprised when an American prefers to use German over English. It's a little like watching the dog walking on his hind legs. The point isn't whether the dog is doing it well, the point is that the dog is doing it at all.

Ex-pats that live in Germany are another matter entirely. They tend to go overboard when "going native" and almost become a bad parody of some of the stereotypes of the locals. This isn't specific to ex-pats in Germany. I've seen the same tendancy in Japan, and even experienced it a lesser degree when I had been in another country for too long and had started to "go native". Perhaps the Germans are less forgiving of errors made by ex-pats that have gone native.

I will say I think the Germans are far more gracious towards those struggling with their language than Americans are towards people struggling with English in America.

[Ekliges Lauern]

I don't think German is that hard to learn.

For an English speaker, the grammer is the main issue. I get der/die/das wrong all the time, but have no problem with the word position. The vocabulary is relatively easy and the phonetics are moderately difficult.

Having watched Chinese and Japanese people struggle with German in a classroom setting, I appreciate the challenges of learning a totally unrelated language. Many of them already knew English and were learning German as a third language but had difficulty distinguishing the phonetics and vocabulary. Fortunately, street German is relatively forgiving of intermixing English words. The phonetics are another matter.

[Hessen Bub]

I don't think German is that hard to learn. Try to learn Mandarin, Hindi, Finish or Hungarian.

HB

[Jackyo]

This is true up to a point. Fact is Germans in general are pretty forgiving of people who come here and make mincemeat of the language. Getting a handle on German grammar takes a commitment and it ain't that easy.

You get absolutely no respect if you mangle the French language. Germans are more forgiving.

There are many more English words to be found in German. In the IT and management fields, English words are sprinkled into German conversations quite regularly. When in doubt, use the English word and you can get by.

If the motivation is there to learn the language, you will achieve that objective. Its a question of how much time you can put into mastering the awful German language as Mark Twain put it.

On the other hand, if you ever get to the point of mastering it, you get nothing but Respekt.

There is an expression which goes: Deutsche Sprache, schwierige Sprache. It is their own acknowledgement of how difficult it is to speak it properly.

One of these days we will have to meet and I can tell you some of the embarrassing errors that I have made in the past.

One mistake I made at my hotel a couple of years ago was asking for a Hubschrauber when I meant to ask them if I could borrow a Schraubenzieher. They gave me a puzzled look until I figured out I had been asking for a helicopter when I meant to ask for a screwdriver (there was a screw I needed to tighten).

[Henio]

@Dick Travel: Programs such as Rosetta Stone are ok to build up your basic vocabulary and comprehension, but you need to go beyond that to be able to carry on a conversation. If you are unable to participate in German discussion or intensive course to follow that up, I would recommend watching German movies to further improve your comprehension (that is how I picked up most of my English comprehension). There are many quite good German movies out there. I would recommend for example Das Leben der Anderen, Das Boot, Lola rennt and of course Der Untergang.

Then buy a collection of short stories in German and try to get through few of them.

Remember though that at some point you must start to have regular conversation in the language, but the above helps you get to the point you feel comfortable trying that and it might give some head start into intensive courses.

Then you can do as some do and practice your German on an English sex forum where about 3% of the readers understand the language and about 1% well enough to correct you :-) Makes as much sence as winter tires in Hawaii

Now, I would not classify my German abilities beyond the pidgin category, but never felt uncool using it. I would say that without exception, anywhere in the world locals will appreciate any effort to speak the local language. The best way to get beyond the pidgin state it to talk and have people correct you and give you new ideas how to express what you want to say.

[Toscana]

merci boucoup

Dick, not a very promising start, but do keep at it... LOL

[Dick Travel]

Guys, what can I say? Seven quality responses in half a day, thankyou.

I didn't want to leave it ages to respond, but have only a minute to spare right now, I shall take them all in and reply properly later.

merci boucoup


DT ;-)

[Dedalus]

If you are interested in having a real conversation, you will at some point in time need to invest in a real course with grammar and everything. The language is very precise and speaking a pidgin form of it isn't cool unless you don't mind being lumped together with those Turkish Gastarbeiter who've lived there for over thirty years and still don't speak German properly.

This is true up to a point. Fact is Germans in general are pretty forgiving of people who come here and make mincemeat of the language. Getting a handle on German grammar takes a commitment and it ain't that easy.

When I started to get somewhat serious about not sounding like a 4 year-old when speaking German (actually most 4 year-olds speak the tongue much better than I do) I spent a good deal of time working out of a book called, "Die neue Gelbe" which did wonders for me:

http://www.amazon.de/Lehr-%C3%9Cbung.../dp/3191172556

Also I made a point of slogging through at least five German newspaper articles a day. If you are new to the language, then I would suggest only one or two. Looking up words in the dictionary gets tiring.

Make index cards with new nouns that you learn. Include gender and on the back declensions.

Do the same with Verbs and their conjugations.

One tool that I did not have when I was learning German is the Internet. Check out the Deutsche Welle site.

http://www.dw-world.de/

You can get the same news reports and features in German and English.

Also you can read any one of a thousand German newspapers online.

The German Stammtisch deal really is a good way to start getting your tongue loose (I can already hear a number of ISGers with filthy minds snickering) and get over the actual speaking hump (there I go again).

If it is your first time with a foreign language and you cannot devote the time for "total immersion" then you will of course have to accept some limits and I personally think that this is OK.

The tricky thing for me is not getting my Puffdeutsch vocabulary mixed up with my normal, daily German.

I once described a mutual friend of ours to a woman I know as naturgeil. That raised her eyebrows.

One of these days we will have to meet and I can tell you some of the embarrassing errors that I have made in the past.

If you want to build your Puffdeutsch vocabulary, I can highly recommend reading the RF regularly. Before the RF there was Isurchs Ruhrgebietsforum which is really where I cut my teeth. Yep, there is a lot of crap written there but also a lot of really funny postings.

My tastes are quite particularly to me. As Deda has written here before, his best and his worst sessions have been with German women.

When I enter a club, I screen for comprehension. I don't go with women I can't understand. This automatically excludes most of the EE women who are just Fresh Off the Bus (FOB) (If she speaks no German at all, how did she make it across all of Central Europe to get there on her own?) This is my contribution to political correctness.

No doubt that having a bit of conversational Deutsch is a plus. I find that it helps me more when dealing with a club's management rather than the girls. In many of the clubs mentioned in this forum, the majority of gals are non-German and a significant number of those would rather speak English than German. Having said that, what German linguistic skills that I possess have helped break the ice a bit more quickly and I am rarely the target of a girl on the make for a quick "tourist trick". Also my German has helped facilitate more than a few "hand-offs" between me and some Gents who I make club-runs with. Back when Russian Melissa at GT spoke no English, it helped a bit to have one of us handle logistics in a understandable tongue. Same for Leila at World and more recently, Maria/Viktoria at Palace, who has good English but is shy about using it at times.

One disadvantage: You can understand some of the mean things a girl might say about you if you send her away.

Cheers,

Dedalus

[Ekliges Lauern]

As someone who attended the Goethe Institut (no e) both in my home country and in Germany and learned German rather late in life, I highly recommend it.

Basically, you cannot learn conversational German from a book. You need to get a good grounding in the phonetics of the language from the start and the only way to do this is with direct and frequent feedback from a German speaker. Without a grounding in the phonetics, you may learn some vocabulary and grammer, but still no one will understand you when you try to speak it.

They will teach you how to deal with real life situations as you progress through the course, giving you confidence as your langauge skills grow. I chuckle to myself everytime I enter a train station how well they prepared me for that situation. Now if we can just get them to add a chapter "At the FKK".

[Jackyo]

Hi all,

I've decided I'd like to learn some German, partly because I enjoyed learning French way back in school (honestly yes!) and figure I'd enjoy the challenge of German and partly for enhancing my German mongering experiences. Plus, if I get to try some of the more far flung clubs/pt's then I'm sure it will be invaluable.

My question is: Is anyone else learning too? Does anyone recommend a particular book/cd etc, such a choice out there !

Danke de DT

If you are only interested in learning a few phrases, the language tapes should be fine. I am at the same stage in kicking around Polish.

If you are interested in having a real conversation, you will at some point in time need to invest in a real course with grammar and everything. The language is very precise and speaking a pidgin form of it isn't cool unless you don't mind being lumped together with those Turkish Gastarbeiter who've lived there for over thirty years and still don't speak German properly.

There is, as well, the stereotype of the linguistically challenged monolingual Anglophone.

In real life I've had German girlfriends (none currently) and I speak it daily though I live on this side of the pond.

The tricky thing for me is not getting my Puffdeutsch vocabulary mixed up with my normal, daily German.

I once described a mutual friend of ours to a woman I know as naturgeil. That raised her eyebrows.

Also, they are usually quite surprised I know about towns like Hennef and Altenstadt.

If you want to build your Puffdeutsch vocabulary, I can highly recommend reading the RF regularly. Before the RF there was Isurchs Ruhrgebietsforum which is really where I cut my teeth. Yep, there is a lot of crap written there but also a lot of really funny postings.

My tastes are quite particularly to me. As Deda has written here before, his best and his worst sessions have been with German women.

When I enter a club, I screen for comprehension. I don't go with women I can't understand. This automatically excludes most of the EE women who are just Fresh Off the Bus (FOB) (If she speaks no German at all, how did she make it across all of Central Europe to get there on her own?) This is my contribution to political correctness.

[Dedalus]

If you are really serious about learning Deutsch, don't waste your time with a book or CD: Go to Deutschland for an intensive 2-week or 4-week Sprach Course. This is really the best (and only?) way to do it. Yes it is expensive. Yes, you will have to sacrifice by actually living in Germany for this period (oh how will you fill your free time??). But it will pay enormous dividends. Also, don't bother learning any language if you don't learn to read and write it simultaneously with the speaking.

The best most efficient intensive courses are offered by the Goethe Institue, with branches all over Germany. Choose your favourite area, then do it. Expensive, but worth it!

Ortos

Hey DT,

Can't agree enough with what Ortos has said. The Goethe Institute courses are probably the best around. Not sure where you are located, but the Goethe Institute has centers all over the world and you may luck out and have one near you. Not only do they offer intensive German language instruction , but you can also hook up with local German speakers in your area and give your newly learned language skill a workout. If you cannot get to Germany for an extended period for a course, then the next best thing might be to take part in a German "Stammtsch" at a local restaurant or bar. Good way to practice.

Of course, you probably will not get a chance to use typical FKK Deutsch at most Stammtisch gatherings.

Personally, I got no problems with the tapes and cds, but don't expect them to do everything for you. They can be handy for getting the "sound" of the language in your ear.

viel Glück und viel Spaß beim Deutsch lernen!


Cheers,

Dedalus

[Varenne]

Are worth a look from anyone willing to learn or improve their german:

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/0,,2469,00.html

A quite wide choice of learning tools is offered. They might or might not fit your needs, but at least they are free, so why not have a try?

[Ortos]

Hi all,

I've decided I'd like to learn some German, partly because I enjoyed learning French way back in school (honestly yes!) and figure I'd enjoy the challenge of German and partly for enhancing my German mongering experiences. Plus, if I get to try some of the more far flung clubs/pt's then I'm sure it will be invaluable.

My question is: Is anyone else learning too? Does anyone recommend a particular book/cd etc, such a choice out there !

Danke de DT

If you are really serious about learning Deutsch, don't waste your time with a book or CD: Go to Deutschland for an intensive 2-week or 4-week Sprach Course. This is really the best (and only?) way to do it. Yes it is expensive. Yes, you will have to sacrifice by actually living in Germany for this period (oh how will you fill your free time??). But it will pay enormous dividends. Also, don't bother learning any language if you don't learn to read and write it simultaneously with the speaking.

The best most efficient intensive courses are offered by the Goethe Institue, with branches all over Germany. Choose your favourite area, then do it. Expensive, but worth it!

Ortos