Identifying Transvestites

[JoseNosay]

you and I and the rest of us winners must have had sex with dozens if not hundreds of Ladyboys by now and only very rarely, if ever, with an actual girl, no?

In the Farang spas and the Farang district most the girls I ended up with are Post-OP TS, usually I don't follow through and just keep it at oral & observation. So whenever I am in the Farang district I am looking for feminine beauties (if she ends up TS. Good effort on her side), I found more natural females in the joints locals hit outside of the Farang districts.

Not a big issue for me as I have Thailand as a First world rest to pick up generic Truvada, relax in low price luxury hotels, observe TS culture & re-supply on high quality goods that I will not find in my mongering destinations.

[EihTooms]

Obviously I will pick the feminine appearing girl, opposed to the Lady Boy with the less "feminine features".

Shouldn't that be the feminine appearing "person" or feminine appearing Ladyboy? I mean, if most of the people working in the Thai bars trying to bag a customer are actually men but they are so convincing it doesn't matter how they came to appear so feminine, you and I and the rest of us winners must have had sex with dozens if not hundreds of Ladyboys by now and only very rarely, if ever, with an actual girl, no?

[JoseNosay]

So, when you go out mongering in Nana Plaza or Soi Cowboy, do you intentionally choose an obvious Ladyboy to take back to your room for sex or do you choose a really convincing "female" appearing one, satisfied that you have still chosen a Ladyboy even though very few if any other mongers in town would know the secret you know about him?

I gots to know

Obviously I will pick the feminine appearing girl, opposed to the Lady Boy with the less "feminine features".

[EihTooms]

Well because most the natural females that look pretty, are servicing Elite Thai men.

The few pretty faces in Nana are Large TS girls that are less likely to succeed in the Thai market. The Old Monger adjusting his mind & being able to spot (too pretty to be real), doesn't make a pretty TS less of a female.

Using the same logic, a 5'11" natural Euro-Thai mixed girl who happens to be pretty will also be accused of being TS (pretending to be a girl) based of her size & Exotic looks.

So, when you go out mongering in Nana Plaza or Soi Cowboy, do you intentionally choose an obvious Ladyboy to take back to your room for sex or do you choose a really convincing "female" appearing one, satisfied that you have still chosen a Ladyboy even though very few if any other mongers in town would know the secret you know about him?

I gots to know

[JoseNosay]

If you had just shown that photo and said this is a girl you met in Thailand last week, most of the old hands here could quickly tell he was very likely a Ladyboy.

Well because most the natural females that look pretty, are servicing Elite Thai men.

The few pretty faces in Nana are Large TS girls that are less likely to succeed in the Thai market. The Old Monger adjusting his mind & being able to spot (too pretty to be real), doesn't make a pretty TS less of a female.

Using the same logic, a 5'11" natural Euro-Thai mixed girl who happens to be pretty will also be accused of being TS (pretending to be a girl) based of her size & Exotic looks.

[JoseNosay]

Technology isn't that good. Not yet..

The inside of the vagina remains different, but it might eventually evolve into something better (depending on actual human consensus & feedback).

No amount of hormones and surgery actually turns a human being from the gender they were born into the opposite gender

Starting young helps, childhood therapy will produce very feminine results. However, it will look exotic (Feminine but looks like females from other ethnic groups), this is because of the way the autosomal gene pool were constructed in an ethnic group. In most humans there is a clear dimorphism (males looks much more different than females), the bigger the dimorphism in an ethnic group the more exotic TS will be.

[EihTooms]

The old school mentality, the best passable (Post-op) TS are the ones you consider real females. Accept it & things will make much more sense.

The TS that stand out, due to late therapy or no therapy. Those become the stereotypical Lady body that old-school farang think off, the modern TS that start therapy early are feminine (usually more feminine than normal females), everybody wins.

If you had just shown that photo and said this is a girl you met in Thailand last week, most of the old hands here could quickly tell he was very likely a Ladyboy. Not with 100% certainty, just very likely. The glam make-up, wet lips, that wide-eyed, faraway "lost little girl" facial cast, the ever-so-slight knowing, come-hither smile. Genuine Thai girls rarely sport such a look, while almost ALL Ladyboys try very hard to do so. It is a practiced look. And that's before we had a chance to see her/his shoulders-to-waist/hips proportions.

I suppose you could now post 100 photos of actual Thai girls and claim, "Yep, all of them Ladyboys! See how easily you can be fooled?" But if most of the P4P girls working Thailand are actually very convincing Ladyboys, then it opens the possibility that most of the women in ALL of Thailand are post-op Ladyboys, despite the fact that 9 out of 10 of them have a baby or two or three before they reach 22 years old. You're not going to claim modern technology makes that possible, too, right?

[JoseNosay]

She/he takes a lovely photo. But, if it is a Ladyboy, there is no doubt in my mind that if we saw him walking past us on the street, especially if he was in close proximity to a genuine Thai female, 90%+ of us, even the newbies to Thailand, would be able to easily recognize him as a Ladyboy

The old school mentality, the best passable (Post-op) TS are the ones you consider real females. Accept it & things will make much more sense.

The TS that stand out, due to late therapy or no therapy. Those become the stereotypical Lady body that old-school farang think off, the modern TS that start therapy early are feminine (usually more feminine than normal females), everybody wins.

[EihTooms]

Its a stigmatic (no-no) issue, like discussing Virgin Birth with a religious person, irrationality kicks in record time.

If you like having sex with a person, you should not be angry if she is TS or not. Most will not come and tell you, because of the big stigma. Once its not longer stigmatic, there will be no reason to hide it.

She/he takes a lovely photo. But, if it is a Ladyboy, there is no doubt in my mind that if we saw him walking past us on the street, especially if he was in close proximity to a genuine Thai female, 90%+ of us, even the newbies to Thailand, would be able to easily recognize him as a Ladyboy. Or at least a "female" with something not quite right about her physically. If he spoke, it would almost certainly go up to 98% of us recognizing the truth of it. The other two percent would only be working very hard to tell themselves it is a genuine female in order to justify taking a shot at him as a Ladyboy anyway and later claim not knowing. LOL.

I don't know from personal experience how easy it is to figure it out once you are actually fondling or entering his "vagina" in the case of a post-op. But I'm guessing any man who isn't totally shit-faced drunk and has previously been with at least 2 genuine females would know something is seriously wrong here.

Technology isn't that good. Not yet. No amount of hormones and surgery actually turns a human being from the gender they were born into the opposite gender. Yes, there are extremely rare cases of a newborn being roughly half-male, half-female and the parents and doctor deciding which way to go with it on the spot. And many times they get it wrong in terms of which gender the newborn really is predominantly. But almost none of us will ever encounter such a rare person in our lifetime.

[JoseNosay]

Estrogen treatments (a common hormone taken by transgendered women) are being started as young as 9 years old. If the ladyboy maintains the treatment for many years she will develop wider hips along with many other feminine characteristics. The bone structure is only altered slightly but it does prompt the body to deposit more fat in the hips and buttocks which can produce the same body that we see in Thai women. In addition to this, they can also get injections to make the figure more pronounced. Given the amount of cosmetic alterations that the genetic women are undergoing, it actually is starting to help the lbs blur the line so to speak.

These days, indentifiers like their walk or mannerisms no longer hold water for many lbs. Sure, the ones that you see around Nana will mostly be the least feminine which is one of the reasons why they are there so using them as any sort of gauge is not advisable, just like basing cultural / social norms around the bar girls will result in the development of ill-conceived notions.

Agreed. I will go with more than 10% in the Sex industry -pro & non-pro (but not in the whole Thai society? The Thai men know better!)

As of myself I got tricked multiple times till now, but so far I am certain of two, because I did go all the way with them, both were 100% females with picture perfect vaginas. The levels of SRS are diverse, gender for me is Y-DNA so some true looking females, just had a penis & Y-DNA (natural breasts & female body), those are few but exist.

So if you are a Gynecologist, or a guy who pays attention to the interior of the pussy. Forget the exterior pussy because modern HQ SRS makes the exterior looks prettier than normal ones, also I knew of a clever TS girl who faked baby damage stretch marks! So now you have someones baby and stretchmarks.

My 2 confirmed passable TS followed a similar pattern.

Both were visually passable females (with picture perfect exterior pussy & female looks), started up sexually like a female, at first it seemed like a female faking it because I never enter a vagina unless a female is completely turned on with fluids activated. With those 2 they were intensely turned on (must be an amazing feeling to fool a man) without any additional fluids (besides the fake initial lube they already had placed). They kept getting more turned on, so I made the decision to go in (for the sake of discovery) inching in I sensed an awkward angle & no additional wetness. It felt like a better built female condom inserted into an awkwardly positioned vagina, but the obvious telltale sign is the movement pattern, when an LB is having pleasure its straight line strong core movements that are easily distinguishable from a female decentralized movements. At that point, they probably were craving some serious Anal thrusting to quell the intense cravings, had to force myself to cum & end the study. Those are perfect for A+ lovers, unfortunately Anal not my thing.

I still get tricked but no more penetration, mainly because I don't enter a vagina unless a biological female is completely wet & feels like a female in and out. The low quality SRS surgeries don't beautify the Vagina to picture perfect levels, these will benefit from a hairy Bush and are easily identified, the highly touched up vaginas (look up surgery options) look too picture perfect (as in the two I had), but the interior is still off angle and can be distinguished if you are accustomed to slow BB sex at start.

[Syzygies]

These days, indentifiers like their walk or mannerisms no longer hold water for many lbs. Sure, the ones that you see around Nana will mostly be the least feminine which is one of the reasons why they are there so using them as any sort of gauge is not advisable, just like basing cultural / social norms around the bar girls will result in the development of ill-conceived notions.

Do you actually any LBs, that are indistinguishable from a real girl, to both yourself and the Thais, even just one? A close family member for my GF is a ladyboy, and that has caused many to have visited my house. Yet not one is "indistinguishable". I have maybe met the odd few that I would have said probably ladyboy but not 100% certain without spending more time (however invariably they almost always are LBs when there is any suspicion).

Still yet to meet a ladyboy that has a totally natural woman's walk as well.

Yes it is possible to be fooled but I am not buying that 10% of them will fool the Thais. Maybe 0. 1% would be more realistic.

[Grandaddy Perp]

I am not so arrogant that I would claim to be infallible, but for sure, I can identify the vast majority of LBs, and to say that Thais would fail to ID 10% of them seems like a gross exaggeration to me. They have an awful lot of experience in this. I don't see that the gender re-assignment surgery is particularly relevant if that means dick removal and pussy construction, assuming we are not talking about naked LBs.

If naked they would be all the more easy to ID. It is unlikely that the pelvis can be made totally female like. Surgery scars can be a give away of course.

I assume we are talking about a live meeting including speaking with them and watching them move, perhaps not naked, since I have rarely seen a LB naked and even then the pubic Bush was hiding a lot on a brief glimpse from the doorway of a Nana Plaza bar.

In my opinion, very few LBs, if any, are really able to walk convincingly like a woman without causing some suspicion. I don't recall meeting any LB that could really imitate a woman's walk well. If they could, then surely some would be LB give aways for some other reason, such as the voice, or other exaggerated features. Of course there are real ladies who walk strangely as well, who can fall under suspicion.

Estrogen treatments (a common hormone taken by transgendered women) are being started as young as 9 years old. If the ladyboy maintains the treatment for many years she will develop wider hips along with many other feminine characteristics. The bone structure is only altered slightly but it does prompt the body to deposit more fat in the hips and buttocks which can produce the same body that we see in Thai women. In addition to this, they can also get injections to make the figure more pronounced. Given the amount of cosmetic alterations that the genetic women are undergoing, it actually is starting to help the lbs blur the line so to speak.

These days, indentifiers like their walk or mannerisms no longer hold water for many lbs. Sure, the ones that you see around Nana will mostly be the least feminine which is one of the reasons why they are there so using them as any sort of gauge is not advisable, just like basing cultural / social norms around the bar girls will result in the development of ill-conceived notions.

[Syzygies]

Statistically speaking, it is reported that there are 100,000 to 500,000 transgender females in Thailand. Of that, 10%-30% have undergone GRE (gender reassignment surgery). Of those 10-30% it is estimated that 40% are indistinguishable from a Western male's perspective, and only 10% from a Thai's.

I am not so arrogant that I would claim to be infallible, but for sure, I can identify the vast majority of LBs, and to say that Thais would fail to ID 10% of them seems like a gross exaggeration to me. They have an awful lot of experience in this. I don't see that the gender re-assignment surgery is particularly relevant if that means dick removal and pussy construction, assuming we are not talking about naked LBs.

If naked they would be all the more easy to ID. It is unlikely that the pelvis can be made totally female like. Surgery scars can be a give away of course.

I assume we are talking about a live meeting including speaking with them and watching them move, perhaps not naked, since I have rarely seen a LB naked and even then the pubic Bush was hiding a lot on a brief glimpse from the doorway of a Nana Plaza bar.

In my opinion, very few LBs, if any, are really able to walk convincingly like a woman without causing some suspicion. I don't recall meeting any LB that could really imitate a woman's walk well. If they could, then surely some would be LB give aways for some other reason, such as the voice, or other exaggerated features. Of course there are real ladies who walk strangely as well, who can fall under suspicion.

[Grandaddy Perp]

Why would it be a problem now? If you couldn't tell a katoey from a girly-girly in Thailand, you probably won't be able to tell the difference between a biological female and a transsexual at home, either.

Note that there are some differences in bone structure that cannot be easily changed by surgery or hormones. Note that a man typically has shoulders, which are distinctly broader than their hips. Its the opposite for women. Granted there are exceptions. There is a tiny girl at work with huge boobs and shoulders that are clearly broader than her hips. She is also about 4'8" tall, has the high-pitched voice of a child. She clearly has some growth defects because her body is just not normal. If she was 5'8" and had a deeper voice, I would be suspicious.

While these all are reasonable identifiers, they fail to take into consideration cultural gender perceptions and the effectiveness of modern technology. It can be argued that what a western man sees as feminine is different from what a Thai sees. A lot of this is based on media effect on perception as well.

Thai lbs are becoming a viable option for guys who still yearn for the old days of when pse / GFE was the norm and there are definitely ladyboys out there that not only provide this service but also can pass for Victoria Secrets models. The softer bone structure of Thais and the sharper bone structure of Western women sometimes line up in certain people. And technology has become so advanced that it can change all of the other parts either through synthetic chemical development and / or plastic surgery. A Thai man will often be able to spot this because they are more naturally familiar with a Thai mans bone structure and they are even able to spot the small masculine nuances that may still exist. On the other hand, these nuances can be similar to modern western women's more masculine behavior. On the Thai side, there are now lbs who can look like Koreans celebrities. There is one especially famous one right now who looks exactly like DJ Soda. Outside of a DNA test, some are in all intents and purposes have become women and the most astute observer will not be able to tell the difference.

[Grandaddy Perp]

I thought most ladyboys had guy parts. Are there very many who have had surgery so the don't? When I was there last time I slept with about 10 different women without ever worrying. Should I have? It's too late to worry now, I guess. ☺.

There is a formula for determining such risk.

Statistically speaking, it is reported that there are 100,000 to 500,000 transgender females in Thailand. Of that, 10%-30% have undergone GRE (gender reassignment surgery). Of those 10-30% it is estimated that 40% are indistinguishable from a Western male's perspective, and only 10% from a Thai's. Those statistics increase proportionately x2 based on the amount of alcohol you've consumed and your body mass index. Unfortunately I'm not great at maths nor have I partied with you so hopefully you can figure it out from here.

On a less serious note, we are now getting into a period where we are seeing a lot of Thai transgender women entering into the P4P trade. More than ever before. What's different though, compared to the past, is that these new generations have had the advantage of being able to take hormone treatments starting at a much younger age than in the past. Its gotten to the point that many have all of the characteristics of a post-pubescent woman, and once they've had a few quality surgeries, are in a sense indistinguishable. Luckily (depending on your perspective) for the majority of the readers of ISG, most of these ladies do not make themselves available to farangs and instead focus on Thai and other Asian customers as they typically command and receive higher rates.