Ho Chi Minh City - Massage Parlors

[Hardlock1]

Yes, Johndao,

I spelled the street name wrong, as is my habit sometimes. It comes from getting old, being a senior citizen, or just plain having a semi-comatose brain! Ha ha ha ha The girl I saw was named Thuy. Cute, no tits to speak of, but sweeter than Honey on Ice Cream. The first two times, the tip I paid was 200k. And the last time, the tip I gave her was 300k. Now, before you go off on me, John, please let me say that it was the first time in Vietnam, ever, going back to 1965, that I have ever had my ass and balls reamed from the back. Oh hell, being an old salesman, I truly love a great performance. LOL Point taken?

And no, nothing was negotiated before hand. She just decided she liked me, kept on hugging me, and did her thing! Of course, I did ask for the BJ, cause their standard fare is HJ. Can't be shy in those places. You have to ask, thats for sure. And no, I don't think anyone blames you for walking out of that place. Never, never ever reward [CodeWord140]-poor behavior. Never! Good Man!

H

[Johndao]

The MP I am reporting on here is in District 1, Dakao Ward. That's the bottom line of the 'L' shape of D1, bordered by Binh Thanh, D3 and Phu Nhuan Districts. If you want to go there it is less than 1km from the US Consulate on Le Duan St, so don't panic! I have 4 HCMC maps and this small street is only on one of them, and then in initials. My map has it as HK Ninh which stands for Huynh Khuong Ninh. It's between Dinh Tien Hoang and Phan Liem streets and between Dien Bien Phu and Vo Thi Sau streets. The name of the place is Que Trang and it's on the south side of the street.

I have my places I like for mass/BJ as you know and the routine is always the same, so that's what I am looking for in a new place. A gaggle of girls hanging inside a closed door place, wearing brightly colored, skimpy, easy access matching outfits. The young woman who seems to be the manager was in the courtyard for bike parking and was friendly and attractive. I asked the price of massage and she told me it was 70k (the usual in other words). I went inside and was not overly impressed with the selection so I chose an attractive tallish, light-skinned woman, older than the others, I'd say 34 or so. She was polite and led me to the back area.

As soon as we went into the small curtained off cubicle are, I knew something was different. This place was quite clean and fresh, the AC was on, there was a clean sheet on the massage table, I saw candles and some potpouri. In these places one only takes off shirt and shoes and lies on the table. She did quite a competent massage on both sides, for a short time, maybe 10 minutes. She was ok. She undid my pants and started to massage my cock without question or comment. I pulled up her shirt, felt her small tits and saw them too. Everything normal so far. I slipped my hand into her panties and fingered her a little bit and was surprised at her wetness, she was lubed! She got out the wet towel. . . and then the problems became obvious. Instead of using the wet towel to clean my dick and surrounding areas before tongue bath and BJ as usual, she layed it on my belly without wiping. Bad news, that says to me HJ, not BJ. Remember, I just wandered into this place, never been there before, no recommendation. Also, I hate the feel of a cold wet towel on my belly, especially when the ac is on. Boner shrinker. Using my subtlest Vietnamese phrase I told her, "Thoi di". Thoi means blow and di is the command word to do something. In other words -- 'blow me'.

Big, big problem now as she asked me how much I'll give her to blow me. I answered 'binh thuong' (normal) and she asked how much is normal. I told her the same as every other place I go to get BJ's. Again, how much is that she asked. My blood is starting to boil now, the atmosphere nearly ruined. I told her 100k and when she scoffed that that's what she gets for HJ, BJ she gets 200k, I told her well, not from me. I just hate this scene and try to avoid it all costs. That's why I love the good places, but it's hard to find new ones, have to try them out, trial and error. Anyway, I am up in a flash, get my shirt on, my shoes on, keys from my pocket. I walk out to the front counter, really she is quite stunned but I don't care now, I'm pissed and not in the mood. I drop 100k on the counter (You have to pay the house, not their fault really) and there was 30k more for her 12 minutes. I'm outta there!

Now, I am not panning this place and telling you not to go there. It's an ok place and will please many of you, particularly those of you who think a quick BJ in an upstairs room at a HBT bar is a great deal for 500k. Or you guys who can't find anything but a massage place where they coerce you into 200-300k for a Hand Job.

Somebody else please try it out and post a report, including price paid and for what. Again, it's an ok place, just not for me, not the way I like to do it.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Johndao]

last year, i wrote about a place in phu nhuan, a hotel, that had massage on the top floor. if you look back to last march, you will see my report there.

also, imagine my shock when i found out, much more seems to be able to be had now! no fs, at least not on the 5th floor. the 6th floor seems to be kept in reserve for what they call vip. standard massage is 100k dong, and vip is 200k. i haven't tried the vip yet, but i guess i shall, just to see what happens for that extra 100k dong. lol

anyway, i found a girl there, who seems to have no aversion to sneeking peeks outside, making sure papasan is looking the other way, and using her mouth and tongue. need i say more?

thanh nghia, 568 nguyen khim street. h is out!

thanks for the detailed report hardlock and sure hope your back feels better. or maybe not so the family will allow you out more often ;-)

i think the street name is nguyen kiem, not khem or khim as in the reports, is it right? i would guess that the vip deal would not be about services but probably a better, bigger room, nicer bath, maybe the best girls, etc.

so the sauna, bath, massage, etc. is 100k. what did you tip for bj? did she make demands first or try to negotiate a price for hj, bj, etc? what did you tip for hj?

i want to try it out, but the reason i ask is because for me nothing is a boner shrinker like a girl trying to negotiate a price while i am trying to enjoy myself. it just sets me off, i get a bad temper, tell them off, it ruins the whole atmosphere for me and i usually just get up and walk out, unless it is very fast and they accept my offer of 'binh thuong' which means normal. i'm not a blue balls type of guy and i usually don't like hj only without bj so it is very worthless to me, monetarily (hj is something i can do for myself) and i won't talk or offer any money for it, ever. i'll tip what i want afterward, of course. it is a normal part of massage in asia. only problem is the girls have learned that westerners particularly, regard it as some kind of 'extra' for which they pay handsomely and not just another appendage to be rubbed. that's the way it is in our countries. otherwise i'll just skip hj or bj and enjoy the bath and massage and give them a small but reasonable tip like 50k.

sorry to go on and on about it. that's me, i have my places that are just perfect for me but i'm always looking for something else as well. thanks for any more info on the routine there. it sounds like fun. i've never had a massage girl bathe me here in vn.

[Hardlock1]

last year, i wrote about a place in phu nhuan, a hotel, that had massage on the top floor. if you look back to last march, you will see my report there.

upon going into this hotel and up to the top floor this year, imagine my surprise when i found out that both top two floors had been turned over to the massage parlor. it seems that is the only thing making money in the place! lol

imagine also, my shock, to find the parlor totally redone. individual, separate rooms, with bath and sauna in each bathroom. imagine also my shock to find that the massage girls actually give you a bath. amazing. good.

they still have glass doors, and they still have a curtain hanging down over the door with a cloth tied around it at the bottom, so that anyone coming by can have a look inside. noone has come by yet and looked, and today was my 3rd time being in there in the last 12 days.

also, imagine my shock when i found out, much more seems to be able to be had now! no fs, at least not on the 5th floor. the 6th floor seems to be kept in reserve for what they call vip. standard massage is 100k dong, and vip is 200k. i haven't tried the vip yet, but i guess i shall, just to see what happens for that extra 100k dong. lol

anyway, i found a girl there, who seems to have no aversion to sneeking peeks outside, making sure papasan is looking the other way, and using her mouth and tongue. need i say more?

thanh nghia, 568 nguyen khim street. h is out!

editor's note: i would suggest that the author or another forum member consider posting a link to this report in the reports of distinction thread. please click here for more information.

[Member #2234]

Don't be silly Joe, you are good. Something about cafes in Vietnam, they often employ attractive young girls to sell coffee and chat with customers. That's their job, so you can go there alone and have someone nice to talk to if you want. Not cafe om.- in fact, most cafes have some girls there to talk to. In cafe om, the girls will be aggressive, they will let you know there is om+cafe, don't worry. They tell you clearly because otherwise you may think it's just like every other cafe where a girl sits next to you and chats.

If you see a cafe and it is quite open to the street, and there are many, many chairs outside and inside, it's not cafe om. Cafe om will have just a few chairs, not many, and they are often longer and narrower buildings, leading to the back area.

I had a reason to be up in Go Vap recently, I rarely go there, it's too far. But it's where there is lots of action. On the way to my destination in the early afternoon I took note of what looked like a likely cafe om and popped in on my way back. It's at 347 Phan Van Tri St. There were 2 girls working there and a manager. Just a long narrow place with a few chairs and cement floor, fans, little tables, it's pretty rough. One girl was not too attractive but friendly, about a 6. 5. The other was younger and cuter, not as friendly, maybe a 7. 5. They made it very clear there was massage area in the back. Funny, there was! Actual massage tables in a large, very large area, I can't call it a room. Two tables, separated by a curtain. Just 100k for the coffee and the BJ. No more, that's all. It was ok, a way to relax and get some energy for the drive back. I hate going all the way out there. Too bad so many places have had to move out of central Saigon to Go Vap, Tan Binh and Binh Thanh. It's a pain to go out there. But I have my favorite places still pretty central.

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Hehe I actually been there a few times too, the girls not the prettiest but certainly a quick cheap RELIEF ;-)

I usually get a not too bad massage from them before the action too ;-)

I like Phan Van Tri as there are quite a few of these places there (well actually quite ALOT lol!) and when the sun goes down you will see lots of girls sitting at the doors so it's quite pleasant to drive up and down a few times to view ;-)

[Johndao]

Don't be silly Joe, you are good. Something about cafes in Vietnam, they often employ attractive young girls to sell coffee and chat with customers. That's their job, so you can go there alone and have someone nice to talk to if you want. Not cafe om.- in fact, most cafes have some girls there to talk to. In cafe om, the girls will be aggressive, they will let you know there is om+cafe, don't worry. They tell you clearly because otherwise you may think it's just like every other cafe where a girl sits next to you and chats.

If you see a cafe and it is quite open to the street, and there are many, many chairs outside and inside, it's not cafe om. Cafe om will have just a few chairs, not many, and they are often longer and narrower buildings, leading to the back area.

I had a reason to be up in Go Vap recently, I rarely go there, it's too far. But it's where there is lots of action. On the way to my destination in the early afternoon I took note of what looked like a likely cafe om and popped in on my way back. It's at 347 Phan Van Tri St. There were 2 girls working there and a manager. Just a long narrow place with a few chairs and cement floor, fans, little tables, it's pretty rough. One girl was not too attractive but friendly, about a 6. 5. The other was younger and cuter, not as friendly, maybe a 7. 5. They made it very clear there was massage area in the back. Funny, there was! Actual massage tables in a large, very large area, I can't call it a room. Two tables, separated by a curtain. Just 100k for the coffee and the BJ. No more, that's all. It was ok, a way to relax and get some energy for the drive back. I hate going all the way out there. Too bad so many places have had to move out of central Saigon to Go Vap, Tan Binh and Binh Thanh. It's a pain to go out there. But I have my favorite places still pretty central.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Joe Nailer]

Re: the post below, the Minh Chau HJ, BJ place described below on Tran Xuan Soan St in D7 is not near the Lam Van Ben intersection but a bit further down the road to almost under the bridge. The water is on the left, the shops on the right.

Also referred to in the post below is another shop I went into to inquire but did not try out. The number is 255 Tran Xuan Soan and it's called Thien Son (see description below) and massage is 70k. It also has real haircut, hairwash etc. in addition to cute girls in pink shorty outfits but not sure about extras so would somebody please go and check it out and post the results. Joe? Suds? And please, no matter what you do there with the girl, don't give her more than 100k on top of the 70k for the house!

Funny! I was cruising around on my motor windowshopping that area the other day. I noticed some indecisive and desparate looking guy up and down the street. Was it you? (only joking)
In fact I was inspecting a cafe (hoping that to be a cafe om) completely opposite side of HCMC from your hunting ground in D7. Nguyen Huu Canh towards Cau Saigon. there are some cafes on the left. Some time ago I was there quite innocently for a ca phe sua da, and I noticed a girl there smiling and eyeing at me. Since then I was suspecting this place for a possible cafe om.
I went there last Sunday to check. 2 young girls in bright coloured shorts with some makeups were serving. I was sipping a ca phe sua da, After some minutes, one of the girl (less pretty one) suddenly sat next to me. I said to myself, "I'm on". But being a shy guy (yes, me) I could not go straight to the point. I was not sure if she was expecting me to say "it". It was a missed opportunity. In restropect, there was nothing to lose in just enquiring. Sorry guys, I must go again to check it out, definitely!

Also on the Ng Chi Thanh triangle for FLs, there are many there. I stopped for one who looked pretty from a distance, but up close, she looked sickly so I passed. Another girl (woman) on a bike approched me offering a service for 300K all inclusive. She's got a D cup. But again it's not my type, too old, probably mid to late 30's. The thought of that makes me shiver. So I passed. Another occasion, 2 girls on the bike stopped in front of me, both looked young (20 to 24) and pretty, offering me for mot tram (100). I was not sure they meant 100K VND or 100 USD. So I passed.
Sorry guys, I am not good am I?

[Johndao]

Re: the post below, the Minh Chau HJ, BJ place described below on Tran Xuan Soan St in D7 is not near the Lam Van Ben intersection but a bit further down the road to almost under the bridge. The water is on the left, the shops on the right.

Also referred to in the post below is another shop I went into to inquire but did not try out. The number is 255 Tran Xuan Soan and it's called Thien Son (see description below) and massage is 70k. It also has real haircut, hairwash etc. in addition to cute girls in pink shorty outfits but not sure about extras so would somebody please go and check it out and post the results. Joe? Suds? And please, no matter what you do there with the girl, don't give her more than 100k on top of the 70k for the house!

[Ian Oxon]

Yes, just off the junction of Thai Van Lung and Le Than Ton. There is a big Smiley sign so not easy to miss. I was there again this week and did have a game with Mai. The biggest boobs in the place. Simply stunning and I left with a big smile on my face

Smiley's is on Thai Van Lung. No bras is the uniform. The takeout is a bit pricey. About VND1. 5 mil with some bar drink/fine included.

The pool deal in all these bars is VND100k if they win and they strip if you win. US$10 is spoling them. You can negotiate other 'prizes'.

[Johndao]

Since I found this Forum, it has encouraged me to go out and try to find some new places near the center and a bit away from the center as well. I have my favorite 100k BJ CIM places and have been very happy with the 4 I regularly visit and their turnover in girls is usually excellent. As for meeting girls outside, the Ng Chi Thanh strip in D5 is best overall as it is very active both at luchtime and the evening/night. The Nguyen Binh Khien/Ng Dinh Chieu mobile ***** market has been forced to move again, now only on Ng Binh Khiem and getting smaller all the time. I remember when it was on Le duan near the Zoo around 2005-6, that was great. Now, you can still find them on Le Duan near the Sofitel and across from the US Consulate, but only at night. Oh, and of course, ADR near Diamond Plaza is very god for late mornings/afternoons still. Some nasty stuff around the turtle on Pham Ngoc Thach at lunchtime though.

Anyway, I was looking further in D7, I mentioned earlier a so-so cafe om that Joe followed up on. He could not find hairy, pointy Lieu and the others I saw there were kind of horrible, also Joe upped my rate by 25% which I was not too happy about. So to avoid inflation I've got to keep the best BBS and Cafe Om to myself. Don't have any good Cafe Om really though.

So I'm cruising along the waterway in D7 on Tran Xuan Soan and pop into a dirty looking Hot Toc where I found one not too attractive gal doinf massage in the back for 50k and 1 guy-- the boss. I passed on that and moved down the road a bit to a brighter, cheery , more modern looking place. Lots of cuties in short pink dresses inside, a guy getting a haircut, another getting his ears reamed. Massa is the usual 70k but with everybody around I did not want to ask exactly what that meant. Since there is real haircut going on, and the back area had many beds side by side with big windows, I did not see much chance for privacy so I passed but will return sometime.

Continuing down the road now, neat the Lam Van Ben intersection I saw a dirty looking little BBS place called Minh Chau. I went in and there was a rather grungy looking mid-20's couple playing with their purple haired youngster, about 3 years-old. There were four girls there, three in the short tight show a lot of cleavage massage girl outfits, and a tall, thin, rather pretty but dark girl who had just arrived and was not changed yet. A pretty girl in pale blue, with white skin and slim legs and very ample cleavage showing showing looked most promising, followed by the tall one who was in white jeans and t-shirt and then a younger, cute kind of squat girl with a nice smile. Number 4 was big and ugly and hairy and scary in a bright red dress. Like a Tijuana nightmare.

The couple asked 150k for massa including tip and I chose the girl in blue. Pretty dirty but ac and curtained off area in the back. I lay on my stomach and she did a short but ok rub rub chop chop on my back. Turned over and pulled her close. Uh oh, she recoiled. We have a problem here, obvious already. She undid my pants, broke open a wet towel and laid it on my belly. Uh oh, big problem, no clean. She grabbed my dick and started to pump it up and down with her hand in the most disinterested and rather disgusted way possible, while keeping herself far from me. After 10 seconds I said 'suck it' (Thoi di) and when she said 'no, she doesn't do that, she's new' I sat bolt upright and said I was out of there or get a different girl. So the tall dark one comes in and says she sucks and points to her lips which were nice. But then the big one in red, horrid woman, barges through the curtain and demands loudly 'bo co di' (give her a tip) and points to the one in blue. She repeated it over and over. Now this woman is so horrible to look at you can't imagine. There was long tufty hair covering her legs from the knee down. Not only is this woman the ugliest sex worker I have ever seen, she is actually THE ugliest woman I have ever seen in all of Vietnam.

I grabbed my shirt, did the buttons, slipped on my shoes, got my bike keys out, pushed past the three of them and said "I am outta here." Got to the door, the guy on the couch with the purple hired boy slid the door open for me without even glancing up. Bye-bye. No money exchange of course. Minh Chau, Tran Xuan Soan St. Check it out if just to see the purple haired boy and the hairy monster.

I rode down to Ng Thi Thap and lo and behold, had an absolutely fabulous, one of the best BBS experiences ever, at a new place for me. Tell you about it later.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Co Van My]

If any of you adventurous types want to try something a little different away from your super expensive D1 HBT haunts, try this. [/blue][/size]

Jondao, thank you for your very insightful reports and good contact information. I have been to Vietnam many times over the years, but my recent trips were so rushed or otherwise monopolized by traveling companions that I haven't been able to explore like I used to or like you are doing now.

I'm saving your posts for the next trip. Keep them coming!

[Joe Nailer]

I just started my International traveling a few months back and have landed in mexico and Philapeans. I had a great time in the Phil and I wanted go to Vietnam but I wanted to find a few things out. I read through posts as much as possible and did not find much info besides the girls don't shave their boxes much. I have a few questions.

How much is a standard hotel?

Are girls there falling in Love with Americans and sleep with them just because they are Americans?

What is an average meal cost there?

Basically I'm trying to find out if they drool over americans there and everythign is cheap. Philapeans was great and cheap. If we paid for sex it was around 20 dollars. But it was not necessary. I was hoping Vietnam was the same or very close. Any kind of brief run down of average costs and expectations would be great.

Thank you guys

"standard hotel" - this is a bit vague, but I guess you want a mini hotels at 30~40USD range?. There are many hotels like these in anmd around the centre. Of course there are family run hotels/guest house places from 10USD in bankpackers area to Sheraton, Caravelle hotel at 200USD+ etc.

"Americans" - They still hate Americans because of the war (only joking)
I am afraid Americans are nothing special. Japanese are more desireble because they pay hansomely and less demanding.

"meals" - what do you want to eat? If you are a standard person, then with 30USD you would eat well at standard places.

[Johndao]

If any of you adventurous types want to try something a little different away from your super expensive D1 HBT haunts, try this. It's not thrilling, it's not the greatest, but it's an ok way to spend a little time, a little money and see the real VN (and cum too)! The place (and there are many many more like it but I will describe 1 place and 1 girl and 1 experience. Go to Lam Van Ben St. in District 7. It's very close to D1 and D4 for those of you with a great fear of leaving the city center. Lam Van Ben runs north-south between Tran Xuan Soan and Nguyen Thi Thap which are parallel East-west roads. Go to a little cafe, number 178a closer to Ng Thi Thap, on the right side heading south. Park your bike and order a coffee. Observe the dogs and the chickens. Go to a little curtained off are in the back where there are just little beach type chairs to sit on. Open your pants and the girl will blow you. Open her shirt, play with her tits, open her pants, play with her ass and pussy. Give them 20,000 for the inside coffee and 100k to the girl who blows you, that's all, no more please! If seated in the outside looking area, you can watch the rooster tied to the try running in circles. Privacy is minimal but nobody wants to look at you. Important point: Look for Lieu, a 24 yo girl from Ben Tre. I saw three girls/women there. Two were absolutely frightening! Lieu is ok, but her facial skin is not great. But she's friendly and has a nice smile and good BJ lips. What's especially interesting though, and the reason I mention all this here, are her Tits and her pussy (hair). Her breasts are near perfect, not too big or small, whit with really big nobby firm protruding nipples. And her pussy hair? In all my years and all the hundreds of Asians I have seen I have never ever seen longer straighter pussy hair. I had her stand up and it must have protruded 5 inches out. So much hair in a small place, not spread out all over the place. But you can still see her small pussy below as the hair is not dense lower. So, the combination of her wonderful tits and nips, the great hair down below, her good attitude and her hard work on BJ make it a worthwhile effort. Oh, I forgot to say, she does not appreciate cum in her mouth and my cock is thick and I pushed her down deeper which made her gaga repeatedly. Hard for her to make me cum. But she uses a side technique which allows a full view of mouth and lips with cock in them. Again, for $7 all told, a fun experience if just to see that hair! One last note, she gave me her number and is happy to go to a hotel next time.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[OzzieSuds]

Per recommendation by a member of this forum I tried out Minh Tanh Hotel, near the War Museum. I live around the area and was happy to find another place as my usual place was located on Nguyen Dinh Chieu, near HBT, next door to a discotech. Minh Tanh was a much nicer setup than the my usual place and the girls were much better looking. I'd say they were 6 and 7's and may be an 8. I saw the lot of them as I was walking upstairs and the locker room door opened.

This place was quite relaxing and it was 130K for massage and used of sauna and jacuzzi. I wanted a food massage also but it was too late and no workers to give it to me.

The girl I got was not bad. Face was of a 16 year old but a body of a 21 year old. She could not speak a lick of English so it was hard to communicate anything. The best part of the massage was a back massage, but all other parts were horrible. Hardly massaged my foot, hands, legs, arms and head. I closed my eyes the whole time and I think she was asking to massage my dude and with my limited VN skills I think she was asking me how much for tip but since I could not understand, she stood there, softly rubbing my legs. After a while she kept trying to talk to me and it became annoying because her laugh was of a child and she made these weird facial expressions. After about 8 minutes of this, she touched Mr. dude and I smiled and she began.

After the whole bit it seems as if she wanted me to write the tip on the piece of paper but I kept trying to give it to her. She kept giving it back to me and I felt maybe she wanted more. But in the end she did take the tip, 200K, and I walked out without any complaints from her.

Very nice massage cabins, and the place was pretty clean. They close a bit early, like 1am. I would go back there easily. Since the forum thread I read that they change girls frequently, I'd really like to get a doll who does not annoy me.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

Not finding a Minh Tanh hotel but I am finding a Thanh Minh hotel on Bui Thi Xuan but that is a little way from the War Museum. street address?

[OzzieSuds]

I just started my International traveling a few months back and have landed in mexico and Philapeans. I had a great time in the Phil and I wanted go to Vietnam but I wanted to find a few things out. I read through posts as much as possible and did not find much info besides the girls don't shave their boxes much. I have a few questions.

How much is a standard hotel?

Are girls there falling in Love with Americans and sleep with them just because they are Americans?

What is an average meal cost there?

Basically I'm trying to find out if they drool over americans there and everythign is cheap. Philapeans was great and cheap. If we paid for sex it was around 20 dollars. But it was not necessary. I was hoping Vietnam was the same or very close. Any kind of brief run down of average costs and expectations would be great.

Thank you guys

George - all the information that you need is in the forum.

And I do not believe that the flippers drool over Americans as such. I will avoid any racial or cultural comments but suffice to say that what they and the Viet Gals drool over is fat western wallets. Sorry.