Ho Chi Minh City - Bars and Clubs

[AdHome01]

Anyone seen Tien (money) lately? She was working at Bar 35 but haven't seen her for a while.

[Lakeoffire1]

Average income in Spain: EUR 25,000/year = EUR 2,083 / month

Average ST in Marbella, Malaga: EUR 30

P4P Index (P4PI) = 30/2083 = 0.014 or 1.4%

The results is good but Raverboy, you probably overestimated the average income in Spain, it will be closer to 1000€/month..Anyway it's still a good score of 2,8%!

[Raverboy]

You also have to factor that US incomes have a lot more discretionary wages. That fuels our economy either through savings or consumer spending. In SE Asia, at the income levels you mentioned, there is no room for extra savings or buying things at the mall, etc. When mongers pay at the higher rate, the ladies probably use it to buy clothes, cosmetics, help a family member, etc.

It's well documented, that Phillipines GDP is enhanced to a great degree by cash remittances, courtesy of mainly mongers. Given that, there is no incentive for their government to seek to control sex workers.

Yes, which leads to a greater spread for the 'average income' for the US. For each example, I'm just using what I think is the median figure, expatriate salaries excluded. I'm hoping to arrive at a comparative scale between the countries from the point of view of the average local joe. Of course, I'm just presenting a crude theory.

... I'm no Economist, really.

[Tomasb]

You also have to factor that US incomes have a lot more discretionary wages. That fuels our economy either through savings or consumer spending. In SE Asia, at the income levels you mentioned, there is no room for extra savings or buying things at the mall, etc. When mongers pay at the higher rate, the ladies probably use it to buy clothes, cosmetics, help a family member, etc.

It's well documented, that Phillipines GDP is enhanced to a great degree by cash remittances, courtesy of mainly mongers. Given that, there is no incentive for their government to seek to control sex workers.

[Raverboy]

As someone who lives in Spain - an EU expensive country - I am surprised as to the cost of P4P in Vietnam.

I am looking to spend a few weeks somewhere hot this winter, but reading the reports, the cost of girls for such a low cost country is staggering to me.

For a GFE here in Marbella, Malaga in the south of Spain, with a very pretty girl - maybe a tasty young Latina, Chinese or Thai, I pay 30 euro for half an hour in house FS; one or two pops. All night is expensive at around 250 or 300 euro. Recently I have paid 20 euro for 20 mins BBJ and even 10 euro for a fondle and HJ...

Reminds me of one of my previous posts:

Gentlemen,

Interesting topic here but before this discussion spirals out of control, allow me to share my simple albeit crude theory on this. Let's call it Raverboy's Basic P4P Economic Theory, which states:

The 'market' rate for P4P in a particular city/country/region should be a function of the average income/salary for that particular city/country/region, expatriate salaries excluded.

Allow me to demonstrate examples based on my past experience and estimates:

Average income in the US: USD 45,000 / year = USD 3,750 / month
Average ST FS outcall (say 1 hr): USD 250
P4P Index (P4PI) = 250/3750 = 0.067 or 6.7%

Average income in Singapore: SGD 2,500 / month
Average ST in Geylang (non-brothel Thai FL): SGD 50
P4P Index (P4PI) = 50/3000 = 0.02 or 2.0%

Average income in Thailand: THB 12,000 / month
Average ST from a Sukhumvit SW: THB 1000
P4P Index (P4PI) = 1000/12000 = 0.083 or 8.3%

Average income in Indonesia: IDR 1,500,000 / month
Average ST from a Kota Brothel WL: IDR 250,000
P4P Index (P4PI) = 250000/1500000 = 0.167 or 16.7%

Average income in Vietnam: VND 2,500,000 / month
Average ST with a motobike girl in D5: VND 200,000
P4P Index (P4PI) = 200000/2500000 = 0.08 or 8.0%

Surprising, huh? So perhaps we're overpaying in Thailand and Vietnam, but then again with most of us being expatriate foreigners and all... a ST for us is far far less than the 8% of income for the average Thai or average Viet. We don't feel what the above results would lead us to believe... but IMHO interesting to look at it this way nevertheless.

Either that, or I'd try my damndest at getting an expatriate package to live in Singapore!

So we can add to that, thanks to Spanish Main:

Average income in Spain: EUR 25,000/year = EUR 2,083 / month
Average ST in Marbella, Malaga: EUR 30
P4P Index (P4PI) = 30/2083 = 0.014 or 1.4%

Not bad!

[Wendella]

I think the girl asked him for $70 and Yiddo miscalculated that as 1 million Dong.

Maybe. It wouldnt' surprise me.

On the rare occasion I have been in one or two of these bars recently, I spoke only in Vietnamese to the girls indicating I know my way around, and they told me $60 ST, $100 LT, $20 to the bar. I know it gets cheaper but I don't bargain sex prices.

I don't negotiate prices for sex. It ruins it for me. I go someplace where I know the price and then I pay it. I just hate the "how much" thing and totally avoid it.

Unfortunately it's necessary at some places -- such as these higher end ones. Or FL in discos.

SW get 200k usually unless exceptionally cute and then up to 300k.
Older ones get 100-150k.

BBBJ CIM gets 100k in D1 and DBP, 50k-60k in D7 except some nicer shops on NTT get 100k. Plus 50k to 100k to the house, that is their fixed price.

But in these places, don't you just pay those prices without discussing? If a new guy showed up explicitly asking how them much it was (Rookie Mistake #1), they wouldn't try to inflate the price?

I'll say this, even when I was brand new here, I had done a little bit of research to realize that I needed to bargain them down a bit, and yes also to know what the real going rates were. And if you're in a totally new type of place (like say, a bia om in Bien Hoa) you just don't know what the price is, so what to do then.

[Johndao]

Actually, if they asked for 1M VND, that's not $70 but about $53 (which cmon now, you do know).

Anyway, it's fine and cool that you prefer the cheaper places and promote them. But I don't think there's any need to make the HBT bars sound more expensive than they really are by inflating their numbers, or pretending that the opening price quoted to a newbie tourist is what the real going rate is.

I think the girl asked him for $70 and Yiddo miscalculated that as 1 million Dong.

On the rare occasion I have been in one or two of these bars recently, I spoke only in Vietnamese to the girls indicating I know my way around, and they told me $60 ST, $100 LT, $20 to the bar. I know it gets cheaper but I don't bargain sex prices.

I don't negotiate prices for sex. It ruins it for me. I go someplace where I know the price and then I pay it. I just hate the "how much" thing and totally avoid it.

SW get 200k usually unless exceptionally cute and then up to 300k.
Older ones get 100-150k.

BBBJ CIM gets 100k in D1 and DBP, 50k-60k in D7 except some nicer shops on NTT get 100k. Plus 50k to 100k to the house, that is their fixed price.

FSMP get 400k usually and sometimes 500k for nicer service, better looks, etc., never discussed beforehand.

I never ask any of these prices in advance. In FSMP and Hot Toc BJ there is never a need to mention price beforehand. On the street ALWAYS say how much you will give them before going off to the hotel and make it clear, pay them that after the act.

Wendella, I am willing to accept your argument that for savvy locals willing to discuss and negotiate prices with girls at HBT bars, the prices will be lower than that for newbies and tourists.
JD

[Spanish Main]

as someone who lives in spain - an eu expensive country - i am surprised as to the cost of p4p in vietnam.

i am looking to spend a few weeks somewhere hot this winter, but reading the reports, the cost of girls for such a low cost country is staggering to me.

for a gfe here in marbella, malaga in the south of spain, with a very pretty girl - maybe a tasty young latina, chinese or thai, i pay 30 euro for half an hour in house fs; one or two pops. all night is expensive at around 250 or 300 euro. recently i have paid 20 euro for 20 mins bbj and even 10 euro for a fondle and hj.

the place i go gives a free drink too.

naturally you can pay more, but in the recession that would be silly.

you can check out the prices at classified ads at sur.es (spanish) and surinenglish.com (english) to prove that i am not exagerating.

i thought that i would have to pay 30 euro (approx 44 us or 800.000dong) or so for the night, but it seems, with a bar fine, at least double that is normal. am i reading it right?

so, if any of you boys want to holiday here, let me know and i will show you around. cheaper fare and cheaper girls for you usofaers.; and everybody speaks your language!

[Wendella]

$110 is the price they wanted from you. Not a newbie (Viet Newbie) mongers paradise for sure.

Actually, if they asked for 1M VND, that's not $70 but about $53 (which cmon now, you do know). You can take the girl to your own hotel instead. Negotiate her fee a bit down from that opening asking price of 1M (you probly can get it to 8 or 900,000VND), and also see if you can get them to knock off a lady drink or 2. Usually they will. By the way, I've never heard more than 6 lady drinks asked for as the fee -- so that's 300,000 (not $20US), which is just $16. So as long as you've booked at a GF hotel, you're really talking about something closer to $60, or $70 max. Total.

Keep in mind, the cheap prices you get in the other kinds of venues, the same applies there where you need to 'know' the real price and bargain, and if you don't they'll try to charge you a higher foreigner/tourist price there too. Same goes here. So it's not a fair comparison to say it's $110 or whatever in HBT bars, based on the price a tourist gets offered as the obviously inflated price, and say that it's so much cheaper at the other places, quoting what you get as a veteran.

And of course there's another angle to be played at the HBT bars, which is to get their phone number and arrange a visit in their off hours -- then their price will be lower (as low as 500,000 -- and I have heard from someone recently that this is what he paid a girl who works at 91 bar, which is the same bar this guy was just talking about -- and she was one of the hottest ones there too). If you do it this way, there's no lady drinks or anything else to pay for. 500,000 is $26. I wouldn't claim that's the standard going rate for this way -- but I think 7 to 800,000 this way wouldn't be tough to set up.

In the end, yes the cheap places are cheaper than HBT spots, but not as much cheaper as the ones who rail against them make it out to be.

Anyway, it's fine and cool that you prefer the cheaper places and promote them. But I don't think there's any need to make the HBT bars sound more expensive than they really are by inflating their numbers, or pretending that the opening price quoted to a newbie tourist is what the real going rate is.

[Johndao]

I can confirm that bar 93 on HBT street has the best girls (in fact it was the ONLY bar I found with nice looking girls). Asking price was US$70 for the girl (or VND1M), $20 for the bar, $20 for the mini hotel, for ST. This is more than I was paying the previous week for those real stunners in Nana Plaza, and the girls in HCMC didn't come close to that quality, so I declined. I like Vietnam, the food is great, it's generally cheaper for most things than Thailand, and I love listening to the girls speak (that language, it's great!). But for p4p, as most other people on this forum have said, stick to Thailand or the P.I.

Good observations Yiddo. No need to break the price down, they do that for you to make everything seem cheaper, many guys do it as well so as to convince themselves that they did not spend too much. $110 is the price they wanted from you. Not a newbie (Viet Newbie) mongers paradise for sure. But if you are patient and give it some time, it's all here and much cheaper than that. Those places are tourist traps and every city has them whether for food or gems or souvenirs or girls, it's to be expected. Beyond being tourist traps however, they do serve a greater purpose and not just for the high profits their masters can earn. They help to reduce crime and hassles for visitors as Vietnam is full of touts and scammers looking to take advantage of the unwise or uninitiated. So although a visitor may pay his $110, he can avoid touts and potential serious trouble and that is good all around.

[Yiddo]

Just spent 5 days in HCMC. As an HCMC novice, I stuck to D1. I can confirm that bar 93 on HBT street has the best girls (in fact it was the ONLY bar I found with nice looking girls). Asking price was US$70 for the girl (or VND1M), $20 for the bar, $20 for the mini hotel, for ST. This is more than I was paying the previous week for those real stunners in Nana Plaza, and the girls in HCMC didn't come close to that quality, so I declined. As is the way of things, the girls in bar 93 didn't allow touching in the bar; the less attractive women in other bars (bars 35, 49, 51 and the rest) would have done, but I didn't fancy any of them. I like Vietnam, the food is great, it's generally cheaper for most things than Thailand, and I love listening to the girls speak (that language, it's great!). But for p4p, as most other people on this forum have said, stick to Thailand or the P.I.

[Terwagne]

After my last business meeting in HCMC, a visit at Tien Loc at 6 pm: I am the only customer, plenty of girls, some of them of decent appearance including an old acquaintance, Tui. Petite with a firm body. She joins me for a drink at the bar, together with one of her friends. Ladydrink 50, 000 the or 2 EUR. Plenty of cuddling, kissing. DFK. Groping, laughter and chatting. All this to put you in the right mood. They invite me for a threesome at a nearby mini-hotel, but I decline. An hour and 6 lady drinks later (for the princely sum of 12 EUR) I invite Tui to join me at my nearby Hotel Riverside Renaissance for a 2 hour encounter. Barfine now the 350.000. And 1. 3 mil for Tui.

She registers at reception and leaves at the 9 pm time limit for visitors to the room. In all a very enjoyable 3 hours.

[Wendella]

There appear to be lots of reports in D1 the Hai Ba Trung / Le Thanh Ton areas. All kind of bars with girls where the prices for either a ST or a drink for the girl are just astronomical..

One man's astronomical is another man's economical. If you like places on De Tham, go for it. All these places have their advantages and disadvantages. The world ain't black and white, especially this part of it. I agree tho that anyone who thinks 50,000 for a lady drink or 100,000 for a tip are unreasonable, the HBT bars are not for you. There's cheaper options around. There's certain nice features you might miss out on in those other places, but almost any place has its good points that might make up for it. Me, I don't dig the wham-bam-thank-you-mam style of a lot of the cheaper options, or else the non-sexiness (dresses, makeup, etc.) or overall prettiness factor of the girls (the cheaper you go, the fewer hotties per capita). I guess if you put in some time you can locate better ones in those areas. But that's a precious commodity for me at least: time. So for me the higher prices are counteracted by the convenience and promise of quality.

[Aardappel]

There appear to be lots of reports in D1 the Hai Ba Trung / Le Thanh Ton areas. All kind of bars with girls where the prices for either a ST or a drink for the girl are just astronomical.

Having been in HCMC myself just a short while, I would highly recommend GO2GO or the CRAZY BUFFALO in the "Pham Ngu Lau" (D1) area from 5pm onwards (every taxi driver in town knows PNL).

Have a nice drink, comfortable seats outside, watch girls passing by and not being hasseled at all. Loads of freelancers parading the roads, that are more then willing to sit down with you, having a softdrink or a beer for the same price as you bought your drink, having a casual chat with you for as long as you like and if you're up for it, take them home / hotel for 300 500K max.

There is no rush, they, both, "the Crackers as well as the Slappers" like to please you and do not mind to try multiple positions or your try-out your fantasies.

[Wendella]

this is a round up of the girly bars down in the hai ba trung / le thanh ton area. i tried to do a stars rating (***) for each. if you have any updates or comments, pm or post those here. the stars are just my own opinion, should be taken with a grain of salt. everybody has their own taste. like i know sudsoz is a fan of coco and saigon ny, where i'm don't go to those 2 much.


hai ba trung area

thien loc, 23 hai ba trung. corner bar, billiard table. a few girls. very dark bar, which translates to the girls usually being willing to get quite frisky in the dark corners of the place. **

35 hai ba trung. small with just a few girls, usually average to slightly above in quality. a balcony level with a pool table where you can get to know the girl better. **

49 hai ba trung. fairly large bar, long and narrow with a back room, which has a 2nd pool table and where things can be quite cozy. girls are usually more plentiful and in general a bit cuter than at 35. **

51 hai ba trung. a bit smaller than 49. better than average selection and quality (more so than 49, imo). this one seems to get new girls more often than most, and the occassional gorgeous one. they also have 2 pool tables, one in back and another on balcony level. ***

91 hai ba trung. this bar is the biggest and has the most girls, and they tend to be prettiest in general, also younger, taller -- hotter. it is the one bar where things tend to be least cozy, but if your preference is looks over service, this is the one to visit. ****

saigon ny -- small bar near the corner of dong du and hai ba trung, actually off hbt street. it's very friendly there, and girls are slightly below average (imo) in general. they're less pushy and usually more human than most of the bars though -- some girls wear ao dais. there's a pool table upstairs. **

apple bar -- across the street from saigon ny on dong du just near corner of hbt. small place and avg girls, from what i could see. *


dong khoi area

cafe 29 is at 29 dong khoi on the last block before the majestic hotel (near river). it has 2 levels and lots of girls, but in terms of looks they're usually nothing special. it is the one bar of all of them that offers the most in terms of customer service. there are couches upstairs and also a little private room in the back. **1/2

49 dong khoi is a depressing little bar way in the back and upstairs after walking down a long hallway. the girls are really not very pretty in this one. if this place has a positive attribute, i sure couldn't figure out what it was. " " (0 stars)


thai van lung area

smiley bar -- thai van lung street at intersection of cao ba quat (down street from where vasco's used to be). big bar, selection is slightly below average. upstairs they have rooms with pool tables. things get much more entertaining upstairs. my beef with this place is that it hasn't had a new girl in about 3 yrs, or so it seems. ones here seem to be a bit older than in most places. **

going up thai van lung, after you cross le thanh ton, there are 2 more bars:

the first one is called just "3" now. small bar, selection usually below average. " " (0 stars) (this one may have had its date with a wreckling ball recently -- looked permanently closed last time i passed -- not sure -- update needed)

on thai van lung near the corner of ly tu truong, at the top of the "hill" is a bar called chot nho. selection and quality here is usually below average. pool table and sofas in back. terrible layout, really hard to get a look at the girls, it's like they're hiding.*

coco bar is nearby on thi sach street, one parallel street over from thai van lung (at opposite end of the street apocalypse is located on). between a couple of japanese bars. seems average, smaller place. *1/2


le thanh ton

quan nho is a very small bar with just a few girls. sofas upstairs to spend time with your girl. tho few, girls here tend to be a step up, and the place is more expensive than most (beers 50,000 for ex) ***

bin bin is next, just across the alley. this bar has second most and second prettiest after 91. quality of the girls here is quite good, sometimes excellent. it has more floors upstairs for further entertainment. ***

tia to is a few doors up ltt street. small bar but with a few floors of japanese tables (sit on floor) or else one with 2 billiard tables and stools. things can get quite fun at this one. quite fun indeed. **1/2

i'd say the best of these bars (in terms of likelihood of finding a stunning girl) includes #49, #51 and especially #91 on hbt, and also bin bin on ltt. middle tier would be the smiley bar, tia to, quan nho, thien loc on hbt and maybe saigon ny. the rest are in the lower tier. they're usually disappointing with the very occassional surprise. 29 can sometimes make up for its shortcomings in other ways, but these days would probably have to go in the bottom tier in terms of looks/age. the bars on thai van lung, i wouldn't even bother with at this point. they're not even trying to get a good selection of girls in those places. one thing i'll say, the bars that don't get as many hot girls tend to be the wildest ones, and they do occasionally get hot girls. so you strike it lucky when that happens. one of the hottest girls at 91 used to work at cali (moved, renamed apple) for example. it's always worth taking a peek in to see what they have.

these places are great if you want to just go out by yourself and hope to hook up with a girl you can be sure is ready to go, without distractions. can have fun there or else more fun at your hotel. different degrees of fun allowed at the different bars. some actually let you go as far as you want, right there. you can also visit these places with a group, and you can get a private room in many.

about prices, i always get beer in these places, and if so the price is 30,000 for the beer (sometimes 25,000 in some) and 50,000 for the 'lady drink'. (exception: quan nho charges more) she'll keep asking for more when she finishes one, that's standard. to take a girl out, you have to buy her around 6 drinks first (poss to bargain a bit), which can be just put on the bill even if they aren't actually drank -- its a barfine really. girls tend to ask for 1m for st these days, but can be bargained down to as low as 800. if they try to charge more for drinks, tell them you were just here last week and paid just 50,000 for lady drinks, or 30k for a beer. usually bartender will play it safe and back down to the real price. these places might attempt to charge more sometimes, i think due to getting lots of businessmen on expense accounts (japanese/koreans especially). if you insist on the correct price, they will eventually agree. speaking a bit of vietnamese would help too, but not really necessary. by speaking vietnamese, you just try to show you're an expat and not a tourist.

if you go to a place and disagree with my rating, remember that the quality varies, day to day even. what's a great bar one week can decline quickly. also, if you get there late or right after a group of customers has arrived together, the pickings may be slim. everything fluctuates. every time you think you have it figured out, the unexpected happens. that's how these places are.

any questions, pm me. comments: post here or pm, as they say in the bars "up to you"