Bangkok Reports

[WindAngel]

This is reported in Chinese forum. Traditionally girls are on contract that is renewed every 30 days. The club has 30 days to recover the cost of hiring the girl by BF. The BF cost increases is partly due to competition in recent years from new clubs that pay more and using shorter term contracts, 15 days or 10 days, to attract better girls. In order for the the clubs to recover the cost, they increase BF. But a sudden jump to double BF does not bode well for the customer so the two tiers system appear.

[Franciscass]

I think this is correct: the girl referred to is as a salary, but you could think of it more as a bonus, or an incentive, or whatever. So when I said:

It would have been more accurate to say that if she didn't meet her minimum BF or LD quota, her "salary" was docked by a certain amount. But the girl I spoke to always received her full 19000 baht "salary" because she hit the metrics each month. So whether you think of it as a salary or a bonus or anything else, there is this small pot of money that they can earn, one way or another.

Not wishing to be overly argumentative the operative word is "can earn" not does earn or will earn. What she actually ends with will be calculated as salary plus commission if she hits the numbers for drinks and bar fines as with your lady friend or salary less fines if she comes up short. It more correctly ends up being actual commission for drinks and bar fines. Owners use the carrot of offering a relatively large salary as an incentive to show.

Look how much you can make at my place hoping they will attract the most popular girls who they know will earn far more than the fictional salary.

[Pointy Stick]

In the West you must wear over-priced brand label clothes in order to get the time of day from a non-pro.

I don't want the time of day from a non-pro female because I can look at my iPhone for that, I want them to leave me alone because these interactions cost me time / money / stress. Once you 'get' how society works, how it wants you to prioritize other people's interests over your own then you'll never go back. Which is why I like LOS because I'll never be a part of society here. I'm just some farang wandering about doing my thing.

[Kumbu]

This notion that there is a salary structure at go go's is a nonsense. There is no salary. There are commissions for LD's and bar fines. She can be told her "salary" is x amount but its only if she hits certain targets otherwise its reduced to what she would have gotten anyway by way of commissions.

I have seen setups like this with commissioned salespeople before where it is called a 'draw' vs commissions. Evens out the slow earning periods. More like an 'advance' against future earnings per se.

I think this is correct: the girl referred to is as a salary, but you could think of it more as a bonus, or an incentive, or whatever. So when I said:

2. Girls are required to hit a certain number of bar fines per month . . . If she came in under that number, she had to pay the owner some amount for each missing bar fine.

It would have been more accurate to say that if she didn't meet her minimum BF or LD quota, her "salary" was docked by a certain amount. But the girl I spoke to always received her full 19000 baht "salary" because she hit the metrics each month. So whether you think of it as a salary or a bonus or anything else, there is this small pot of money that they can earn, one way or another.

[Sunlover2]

This notion that there is a salary structure at go go's is a nonsense. There is no salary. There are commissions for LD's and bar fines. She can be told her "salary" is x amount but its only if she hits certain targets otherwise its reduced to what she would have gotten anyway by way of commissions.

I have seen setups like this with commissioned salespeople before where it is called a 'draw' vs commissions. Evens out the slow earning periods. More like an 'advance' against future earnings per se.

SL.

[Turgid]

What percentage of Thai who have never interacted with foreigners have plastic surgery?

Most people in the west have poor self esteem hence the popularity of over-priced brand label clothes and bags, expensive vehicles and prestigious careers which are shit but give employees ego-boosts in change for giving away their lives. When they can't get those things they turn to substance abuse or fanatically supporting a sports team to vicariously bask in their victories. Same same but different.

In the West you must wear over-priced brand label clothes in order to get the time of day from a non-pro.

[Franciscass]

This notion that there is a salary structure at go go's is a nonsense. There is no salary. There are commissions for LD's and bar fines. She can be told her "salary" is x amount but its only if she hits certain targets otherwise its reduced to what she would have gotten anyway by way of commissions.

[Tomasb]

Very informative. Thanks for taking the trouble. Your last paragraph from your response confirms what I thought. This explains why the Mamasan at Billboard was insisting the price for Short Time was 3000 rather than the 2000 that the girl initially quoted to me.

I have also thought about slipping my Line ID or Thai number to a girl in these go-go's but not sure they would bother calling me for the extra 1,500 or so I would save and they might earn direct from me — BF 500 and the difference between short time 3000 and 2000 bhat fee. Let say, I told the girl that I would pay her 2500 for short time if she called me outside the bar. (Call or text me when she is available). At most go go's, it would cost me 700 to 1000 bhat for the bar fine plus the extra savings from a reduction in her fee through this private arrangement, which would go to the bar. In US currency that is $50, which adds up over time.

A few years ago (so keep in mind that things may have changed in the last few years), I asked a girl I was seeing semi-regularly about the economics of gogo bars. Here's what she said:

1. Girls get a flat salary, depending on their seniority and popularity. She was on 19,000 baht per month.

She did tell me, though, that the reason she worked at that particular gogo bar (Baccara, by the way) was because they had this particular structure. She said in other bars, girls had to kick back half of the payment for ST / LT, which she found overly exploitative. But keep in mind this is 3rd hand information (I. E. , she never worked in such an establishment), and this is a couple of years old. Maybe someone has more recent info.

[Kumbu]

I am curious whether or not it has ever been discussed if the fee negotiated between the punter and the girl for short or long time ends up partially back in the pocket of the bar owner? I sometimes wonder if these bars are charging the girl a flat fee of 500 bhat or some other amount from their proceeds. So if the girl is telling you her fee is say 3000 for short time, she is required to pay the bar owner a certain amount for the 'privelege' of leaving the bar. Of course, this is in addition to the bar fine we pay direct to the bar / mamasan...

A few years ago (so keep in mind that things may have changed in the last few years), I asked a girl I was seeing semi-regularly about the economics of gogo bars. Here's what she said:

1. Girls get a flat salary, depending on their seniority and popularity. She was on 19,000 baht per month.

2. Girls are required to hit a certain number of bar fines per month. The exact number depends on the girl, so newbies start slow, but work their way up. She was an experienced one, and so her target number was 25. If she came in under that number, she had to pay the owner some amount for each missing bar fine. I can't remember how much, but I think it was 300 baht per missing BF.

3. They got 6 days off per month, but could buy each day out by paying their own BF. But they could only do so much of that before they got skunk-eye from mamasan, especially if they had not hit their monthly targets already.

4. Girls had to hit a minimum number of LDs per month, depending on seniority. She was on 50 LDs per month. Again, for each LD they are short, they owe the owner a certain amount. But they made 50 baht for each LD they sell. This of course incentivizes them to stay in the gogo bar to sell more LDs, or to do ST so they can rush back and sell more LDs.

5. Girls got to keep the entirety of the ST / LT fee. They were under no obligation to do ST or LT. That was up to them. But of course, the economics of it incentivizes ST, since a girl can do 3-4 STs in one night and just crank through to hit the minimum BF number. And that's what this girl did: she would work for 2 weeks, get something like 30-35 BFs (all ST, except with me. Or so she said. . .), 200-300 LDs, and then take 1-2 weeks off to be with her kid. She gladly paid the BF for the 1-2 weeks she took off, since she could afford it quite handily.

So doing the math. . . 19000 + (30 x 2000 baht, the then-ST rate =) 60000 + (200 x 50 baht for LDs =) 10000 = 89000 per month. That's rock-star money for a girl from Isaan, or for most Thai people, to be honest. And that doesn't include tips, or the I-take-care-you money from schmucks from abroad. She had regular Skype sessions each afternoon with three such gents. I wish I could have warned them, but I did not want to mess with her livelihood.

She did tell me, though, that the reason she worked at that particular gogo bar (Baccara, by the way) was because they had this particular structure. She said in other bars, girls had to kick back half of the payment for ST / LT, which she found overly exploitative. But keep in mind this is 3rd hand information (I. E. , she never worked in such an establishment), and this is a couple of years old. Maybe someone has more recent info.

[Pointy Stick]

No. Because Thais who never interact with foreigners at all do it frequently too.

They do it because of poor self esteem reinforced by a distorted culture.

What percentage of Thai who have never interacted with foreigners have plastic surgery?

Most people in the west have poor self esteem hence the popularity of over-priced brand label clothes and bags, expensive vehicles and prestigious careers which are shit but give employees ego-boosts in change for giving away their lives. When they can't get those things they turn to substance abuse or fanatically supporting a sports team to vicariously bask in their victories. Same same but different.

[Banana Boi]

How about cosplay? I can't find anything similar to the image clubs, but some massage places claim to offer dress-up and roleplay. Kiss Massage and Bangkok Passion, etc. Or should I try Thanon Thaniya for this kind of thing?

Buy some cosplay outfits you like. Pick up a Thai girl and barfine them under the condition they will dress up in your cosplay outfit. That seems to be the most direct way to get what you're looking for. Try the Thermae girls and from Japanese oriented gogo bars I'm sure they have had requests like these before.

[Tomasb]

I am curious whether or not it has ever been discussed if the fee negotiated between the punter and the girl for short or long time ends up partially back in the pocket of the bar owner? I sometimes wonder if these bars are charging the girl a flat fee of 500 bhat or some other amount from their proceeds. So if the girl is telling you her fee is say 3000 for short time, she is required to pay the bar owner a certain amount for the 'privelege' of leaving the bar. Of course, this is in addition to the bar fine we pay direct to the bar / mamasan.

This scenario might account for the increasingly high amounts being asked by the girls in the bars for their services because they have to cover some of this additional overhead so to speak — A kick back in other words. I guess one would think someone would have blown the whistle on this type of activity already but interested if any punters have heard anything about this.

I think of this in terms of when you go to a restaurant that adds ten percent service fee to a bill plus the tax. As most of us know, that ten percent rarely goes to the servers but straight into the owners pocket. If you want to tip a server for good service make sure it is in cash. Oops, I digress.

[IMembr]

Silicon Valley is a subset of American culture (which is unique and unusual compared to Asia especially). We're talking about Chinamen, Korean, Japanese. They're from societies where status, face, wealth are extremely important. They don't miss an opportunity to rub wealth in someone's face. Without other information, I'm going to guess that the Asian sex tourist in his $5 t-shirt from Phuket, flip flops, cheap man bag he picked up along Sukhumvit wrapped around his shoulder has far less money than the white guy with the $50 t-shirt, $200 jeans.

This is the whole point. It's old white retirees on fixed incomes complaining about the increase in prices, bars being less fun. They're competing against Chinamen, Koreans in the prime of their working lives..

For the 1st section, it's really easy to see, regardless of race / ethnicity, that a person who wears authentic name brand clothing will be targeted by a mamasan than one who does not. This has less to do with race than it does whether the individual has money or not. With that said, it's obvious that the gogo bars are catering more to the Asians than ever before because they spend. Whether you want to focus on their clothes or not is up to you. The money being spent proves otherwise.

Also, you are all over the place here with your reply. In the first section, you say you're not impressed by the Asians. In the second part, now it's a sob story about ex-pats who have to compete against the Asians. The middle class is expanding in Asia which brings more disposable income. Again, this is another EASY concept. Posting GDP per capita means zero here because those millions of farmers dragging down the GDP per capita aren't the ones who are showing up in Thailand but that expanding middle class from the cities are. If the Asians and later other ethnic groups from other countries come to visit the gogo bars and spend money, hopefully it keeps the gogo bars in business so that it remains still an alternative. The ex-pat who had previously had a life where not a lot of money was made and went to Thailand to stretch that savings was always destined to be priced out. Those who whine about the old days being cheaper and how it's more expensive today, well, probably should've made better financial decisions earlier in life. There are plenty of other ex-pats and other old farangs who saved well, earned a good living before and still monger like it was 10 years ago. But we hear about the old farang wishing for the "good old days" because that guy can't play as much as before.

Money is now more spread out and accessible. With that, a variety of people will come. That's just the reality.

[IMembr]

Old farang chase Issan girls because every woman is supposedly fat and overbearing back home.

What's the excuse for a young Korean man. Young Korean women are good looking (they make good hookers the world over). These young wealthy Koreans don't need to be in Angeles City bars at 10 am.

Plenty of young anything the world over. You're not making any point. Going to BKK, Pattaya, Angeles City, Germany, Costa Rica, the Dominican, and Brazil has a bunch of cheap good looking women. An Asian guy coming from Korea, China, or Japan to Thailand has a short plane ride. The white trash over at the German FKKs are cheap too but further. If one is from the US, making a trip to the Latin countries is an easy trip. It's far cheaper to monger in Thailand than in Korea while making a holiday of it which doesn't take a genius to figure out.

[Rick Rock]

I'm confused. If they're having surgery to make themselves look less Issan isn't this to make themselves more attractive to the East Asian market?

No. Because Thais who never interact with foreigners at all do it frequently too.

They do it because of poor self esteem reinforced by a distorted culture.