Bangkok Reports

[Stykler]

I've found a good way to avoid all the hassle with USA immigration thugs. I just fly from Thailand to Mexico and cross the border late at night on foot at a remote location while no one is watching. I don't need a passport, visa or any papers at all. I don't even need permission. It's how all the smart sophisticated citizen travelers and immigrants go to the USA. Never has my baggage been searched; theres no snooping into my camera or laptop, no questions, no interrogation; I won't be arrested or prosecuted, and President Obama provides me with total immunity and amnesty from all those pesky immigration laws. I can stay as long as I please and go back to Thailand the way I came. It's like having a get out of jail free card.

Wow. A non-US resident who reads this thread may well make the assumption that the good old US of A is a dysfunctional mess at the moment.

And some of us take the p/i/s/s out of the Thai government sometimes!

[Daddy07]

This article, which is three years old and therefore does not take into account recent court developments, such as the Ninth Circuit case earlier discussed, gives a good overview of what to do at the border, including if one is asked for a password. https://www.eff.org/wp/defending-pri...igital-devices.

I've found a good way to avoid all the hassle with USA immigration thugs. I just fly from Thailand to Mexico and cross the border late at night on foot at a remote location while no one is watching. I don't need a passport, visa or any papers at all. I don't even need permission. It's how all the smart sophisticated citizen travelers and immigrants go to the USA. Never has my baggage been searched; theres no snooping into my camera or laptop, no questions, no interrogation; I won't be arrested or prosecuted, and President Obama provides me with total immunity and amnesty from all those pesky immigration laws. I can stay as long as I please and go back to Thailand the way I came. It's like having a get out of jail free card.

[LA Guy 5]

So what would be the consequence of not giving customs the password to say your phone? They have the right to search it with probable cause. But is there a rule saying you have to give them the means of entry?

This article, which is three years old and therefore does not take into account recent court developments, such as the Ninth Circuit case earlier discussed, gives a good overview of what to do at the border, including if one is asked for a password. https://www.eff.org/wp/defending-pri...igital-devices.

[TwoTimeTed]

I take it, you are talking about Thailand Customs?

I am always anxious going through the customs. Mostly this is due to my family's traumatic ecape from a formaly held communist central European country. I cannot help myself but be nervous. Returning from Thailand to Canada by myself this January (my family returned earler) I was also held up by customs. I had a photo on my camera of a beach road girl giving me a blowjob, and subsequently they also held me up for three hours. The custom guy was actually quite nice, and at the end told me I did nothing illegal and reminded me to delete the photos before my wife gets her hands on the camera. For my next solo return from south East Asia, I am already psychologically preparing myself for a three hour delay. I have nothing to hide. I guess its part of the deal.

[ConquerorVal]

I wonder if other folks are "randomly selected" so regularly, LOL.

I am always anxious going through the customs. Mostly this is due to my family's traumatic ecape from a formaly held communist central European country. I cannot help myself but be nervous. Returning from Thailand to Canada by myself this January (my family returned earler) I was also held up by customs. I had a photo on my camera of a beach road girl giving me a blowjob, and subsequently they also held me up for three hours. The custom guy was actually quite nice, and at the end told me I did nothing illegal and reminded me to delete the photos before my wife gets her hands on the camera. For my next solo return from south East Asia, I am already psychologically preparing myself for a three hour delay. I have nothing to hide. I guess its part of the deal.

[LA Guy 5]

As a single male traveler returning to Canada from SEA, I have in the vast majority of times had all my shit thoroughly inspected. There was also many questions and a waste of up to 3 hours of my life each time. In one instance I was even interrogated at length at the boarding gate to leave the country.

I wonder if other folks are "randomly selected" so regularly, LOL. Not everyone has stamps to Thailand & Cambodia in their passports. After the first few times this happened I started going without a suitcase to reduce the inevitable delays after a long flight.

On one occasion I had a copy of the "After Dark" gogo magazine full of pics of semi nude girls. The airport officer accused me saying, you told me you had no porn. I replied that that is nothing, in Canada you can legally buy and carry on your person real porn, fully naked and in the act. That shut her up.

I was also accused re tons of comments written on note papers, them saying a bit of it was distasteful. I said it was just some garbage I had copied off the internet & that was the end of that discussion.

Although I have found US Customs and immigration officers to be difficult at times (although since joining the Global Entry program, this no longer has been the case for me), in my experience Canadian customs and immigration is worse, if that is even possible. I have had limited interaction with them though, so it is possible my limited negative experiences with them have been the result of bad luck. However, when I read accounts such as PinkPearl's (as well as others) I suspect my negative experiences with them have been typical rather than atypical.

[LA Guy 5]

Every year this same topic comes up and is discussed ad nauseam by all the experts. Could you please move on. No one knows what the law really is or the criteria is. All that is clear is that any adult nude photos are legal. Looks like most of the people worry about customs searching their laptop must be involved in illegal activities. If you act suspicious and nervous at the entry, of course you are likely to be searched. So dress well, don't act nervous and you should be fine. Of course, I am talking about USA. Other countries, I have no idea. Except India where my never had my laptop or phone searched.

Now if your significant other searches and find these stuffs, your recourse under the law may be limited.

This is one of the most ill-informed posts I have ever seen on this forum.

[Duniawala]

Every year this same topic comes up and is discussed ad nauseam by all the experts. Could you please move on. No one knows what the law really is or the criteria is. All that is clear is that any adult nude photos are legal. Looks like most of the people worry about customs searching their laptop must be involved in illegal activities. If you act suspicious and nervous at the entry, of course you are likely to be searched. So dress well, don't act nervous and you should be fine. Of course, I am talking about USA. Other countries, I have no idea. Except India where my never had my laptop or phone searched.

Now if your significant other searches and find these stuffs, your recourse under the law may be limited.

[PinkPearl]

I enter the US about 5-6 times per year and my passport is full of entry stamps. I was selected for secondary inspection once, at Newark Airport, New Jersey, flying in from Europe. Four armed agents went through my luggage in some detail, and looked at all the pics in my digital camera.

So this is not just a theoretical thing.

As a single male traveler returning to Canada from SEA, I have in the vast majority of times had all my shit thoroughly inspected. There was also many questions and a waste of up to 3 hours of my life each time. In one instance I was even interrogated at length at the boarding gate to leave the country.

I wonder if other folks are "randomly selected" so regularly, LOL. Not everyone has stamps to Thailand & Cambodia in their passports. After the first few times this happened I started going without a suitcase to reduce the inevitable delays after a long flight.

On one occasion I had a copy of the "After Dark" gogo magazine full of pics of semi nude girls. The airport officer accused me saying, you told me you had no porn. I replied that that is nothing, in Canada you can legally buy and carry on your person real porn, fully naked and in the act. That shut her up.

I was also accused re tons of comments written on note papers, them saying a bit of it was distasteful. I said it was just some garbage I had copied off the internet & that was the end of that discussion.

[Slibby]

I enter the US about 5-6 times per year and my passport is full of entry stamps. I was selected for secondary inspection once, at Newark Airport, New Jersey, flying in from Europe. Four armed agents went through my luggage in some detail, and looked at all the pics in my digital camera.

So this is not just a theoretical thing.

So what would be the consequence of not giving customs the password to say your phone? They have the right to search it with probable cause. But is there a rule saying you have to give them the means of entry?

[LA Guy 5]

Yes, the Supremes ruled on this in January and again in March. To be exact, they denied the appeal, letting stand the 9th Circus' ruling. They sort of carved out this doctrine of "reasonable suspicion. " Basically CBP can do as the please once they have "reasonable suspicion. " Of course, much like "probable cause," I suspect "reasonable suspicion" can be manufactured at will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Cotterman

The above is a good summary of the rulings in question. It now appears that this how the law is to be applied at all ports of entry.

Although "reasonable suspicion" is a rather low standard, lower than "probable cause," it is still significant that such a standard now exists in the Ninth Circuit. Consider instances (and there are some) where Customs and Immigration decides to search the digital devices of virtually every single male on a plane from Asia. Unless Customs and Immigration has some reasonable suspicion that this group of single males engaged in some criminal act (for example, "we have information they all belong to the United Automatic Editor will not allow this word Association") these kinds of en masse searches would be considered violations of the United States Constitution. While in individual cases it might not be so hard for Customs and Immigration to manufacture reasonable suspicion, the standard does get in the way of them routinely searching the digital media of large numbers of returning people because logically only a limited number could really be considered "reasonably suspicious."

So even in those jurisdictions that have a reasonable suspicion standard, persons returning to the United States must consider there still is a possibility of a search of your digital media, but the reasonable suspicion standard does lower that probability, probably significantly.

[Harry Dude]

Has anybody here actually had their computer or camera searched going through Thai, PI, Singapore, EU, UK, Canada or US Customs or are we just talking theoretically?

I enter the US about 5-6 times per year and my passport is full of entry stamps. I was selected for secondary inspection once, at Newark Airport, New Jersey, flying in from Europe. Four armed agents went through my luggage in some detail, and looked at all the pics in my digital camera.

So this is not just a theoretical thing.

[Wolvenvacht]

BTW, anyone who knows how safe encryption of the harddisk is if you should be searched by customs? The commercial encryption programs has some flaws.

I wouldn't trust it too much. I work for a company that had a forensic accountancy department and you'd be surprised how easy it was for them to recover deleted files and unscramble encrypted hard disks.

[LA Guy 5]

Yes, the Supremes ruled on this in January and again in March. To be exact, they denied the appeal, letting stand the 9th Circus' ruling. They sort of carved out this doctrine of "reasonable suspicion. " Basically CBP can do as the please once they have "reasonable suspicion. " Of course, much like "probable cause," I suspect "reasonable suspicion" can be manufactured at will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Cotterman

The above is a good summary of the rulings in question. It now appears that this how the law is to be applied at all ports of entry.

I don't think so. In denying the petition for cert. The Supreme Court basically left the ruling as it affects the Ninth Circuit only in place without ruling on the merits. In other words they essentially decided the case was not one of the very few they wished to consider at this time. Accordingly the Ninth Circuit ruling remains intact for the Ninth Circuit at least until such time as the Supremes take a case on this issue. Customs and Immigration is still free in other jurisdictions to search laptops and digital media (such as memory cards for cameras) without any need to justify the search unless a court in another jurisdiction rules otherwise for that jurisdiction. At least that is my reading of the situation unless there are further relevant cases I haven't seen or I have forgotten something important I learned in law school (which I suppose is possible).

Edit: It occurs to me though the reason the Supreme Court refused to hear the case might have been not so much that the issue of whether the government needs reasonable suspicion to search a digital device is an unimportant one, but rather the facts of the case were not conducive to deciding that issue. The Court of Appeals affirmed both that the government needs reasonable suspicion and that in this case there was reasonable suspicion. Therefore if the Supreme Court took the case it would not matter to the defendant whether it ruled reasonable suspicion was required, or instead that no reasonable suspicion was needed, because in both instances the defendant would still be considered guilty and subject to incarceration. The only way the Supreme Court ruling would be consequential to the defendant would be if the Supreme Court looked at the facts and concluded there was no reasonable suspicion on the facts of the case but reasonable suspicion would be required to allow the search. But the Supreme Court rarely makes these sorts of factual determinations. So bottom line is unless the government decides as a matter of policy to only search digital media at the border based on reasonable suspicion, and nothing less, there still is the distinct possibility the Supreme Court may in the future issue a definitive ruling in a suitable case that would bind all U.S. ports of entry. Hope this is reasonably clear to those who care.

[Bellpepper]

Has anybody here actually had the.ir computer or camera searched going through Thai, PI, Singapore, EU, UK, Canada or US Customs or are we just talking theoretically? In all my travels I have never experienced this invasion of my privacy.

. . . .

But yeah to be extra safe or to put your mind at ease, put your trip photos on the cloud or encrypt a portion of your hard drive. The odds of a custom official checking your data that deep is 1 in 10 million.

In October 30 last year Cubadave, a frequent mongerer in the Dominican Republic, was searched by the US Customs officials at Miami International Airport. They told him to line up with six other people and hand over his electronics. He had to surrender a laptop computer, two cell phones, and two digital cameras.

I cannot find the link now but it has been commented at the Dominican Republic forum of this site.

BTW, anyone who knows how safe encryption of the harddisk is if you should be searched by customs? The commercial encryption programs has some flaws.