Bangkok Reports

[EihTooms]

...

However it is grossly irresponsible to keep suggesting it doesn't exist and that working girls should provide BBFS as a matter of course.

More irresponsible still that its OK to use what is essentially bribery to get them to overlook those risks when they first refuse to do so and finally totally reprehensible to denigrate them when they don't change their mind because they should know their only use on this earth is to serve the whims of men.

One of the reasons I'm not a big fan of the "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" approach with regard to a session leading to BBFS is because that popular and seemingly benign method is far more apt to intimidate, manipulate and corner a girl into going along with BBFS against her better judgement than the way I do it.

The "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" punter has no idea why a girl doesn't brandish a condom and insist on its use at crunch time. I submit it could be because she has devoted a significant portion of the evening "off the market" with him and is worried about rocking the boat on anything he intends to do with her for fear of being put out with little or no money after investing so much time with him. Or by then she is so drunk from the drinks he and others bought for her that she isn't capable of making any sober decisions at all. Or by then she might even be reading his charming demeanor and their chemistry together as an indication she has a potential repeat customer here and her family could sure use that kind of ongoing income. He might even by then have gone so far as to tell her how "in love" he is with her he wants to take care of her and her family for a long time. Or, taking the opposite view, by then she might have seen in him a tendency to react a little too hot or angrily whenever he is crossed (by a server, a mamasan, another customer, a taxi driver, the hotel staff) and the last thing she wants is to cause another flare up and find his hands around her throat or balling up a fist.

I could come up with another half dozen reasons a girl to whom a "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" approach has been applied would not bring everything to a screetching halt at crunch time and insist on a condom that have nothing whatsoever to do with the girl "wanting" to fuck the man bareback for the sheer superior physical and sexual pleasure of it. Yet punters who think that preferred method is benign or "leaves it up to the girl" and that my method is "forcing" the girl to do something she wouldn't ordinarily agree to do love to tell themselves that's why the girl didn't work harder to insist on using a condom with them.

Anyone who is curious to find out if a girl "wants" or is genuinely inclined to be ok to fuck you bareback without it being a matter of force, intimidation, manipulation or cornering her into it at crunch time, imo the closest way to find out is drop the self-deluding "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" approach and try it my Upfront Agreement way; hit up girls earlier in the evening when they are sober and really do have the time and opportunity to say NO to you and choose another customer, not at closing time, not after she is falling down drunk, not when her only viable option is either you and whatever you want or to pay her own taxi fare back to her room alone with no other money. Then tell her you are interested in bareback as close as possible to the beginning of your encounter, at the second Lady Drink maximum, and long before she has committed and invested significant portions of her market/selling time "off the market" with you and with no one else. Then see if you can swing an Upfront Agreement for it.

I'd be surprised if there are 2 other punters in all of Thailand who go about scoring bareback with the girls as fair and square and without force, manipulation or intimidation as I do it. Hell, I "negotiated" BBFS (and was refused that AND BBBJ+CIM) with the Sukhumvit Road freelancer whose report of mine triggered much of this latest bareback discussion at 9AM in the morning, on the phone, while she was still laying in bed and hadn't even taken a taxi to her regular near Soi 19 stroll. In fact, she called me wanting to know that early in the day if she was going to book a session with me so she could decide whether or not to take the day off. And when we didn't book a session, sure enough I did not see her working in her spot that day or night. So much for being forced to agree to anything with me out of "desperation." lol

Add to that what you have generously pointed out about my at least having the consideration and courtesy to have gotten a vasectomy and always have a recent blood check document on hand to show anyone who wants to see it and I'd say my methods are about as responsible for scoring bareback as it is possible to get in the Thai P4P scene. But anyone else who has the brass punter balls I think it requires to do it my way rather than all the other more manipulative ways be warned: You WILL get a lot of refusals. And a lot of those refusals will be from girls who likely would have gone along with bareback fucking you if you had applied the "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" approach, especially if you had gone for it after she was clearly drunk, late at night when they have very few other options and certainly if at such a moment you offer them even more money for it.

The increased refusal rate is a high emotional price to pay in order to be as fair and square and non intimidating about it as I try to be about it. I suspect it is too high a price to pay for the vast majority of bareback-seeking punters. But I don't do it that way to be a hero and not for purely altruistic reasons. Mostly I do it that way because the sessions I get with girls who agree upfront to fuck me bareback when they are sober and could easily choose another customer instead are much better than what I get if I go to the extremes of timing it and manipulating them into it I read in other reports.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Like 70 to 80% of the active principles used in medecine from western countries are produced in China & India.

China sells all kinds of quality goods. If you're going to negociate the price to the lowest and don't spend a dollar on quality controle don't expect your product to be of quality, that's for sure.

So wether you like it or know it, yes its likely your medecine have a link with China.

I didn't say any link? I wouldn't want a medicine as "finished product" from China I would prefer 0%.

But a small % is much different than a "finished product".

I was Mexico last year, I went to a farmacia, I went to a chain store and the farmacist advised me not buy to medicine in Mexico, he suggested I cross the border and buy in the USA.

He was a very nice man, and didn't want me getting even sicker, I'm guessing the cheap meds they sell in Mexico are knock offs made in China.

If they want to make knock offs it would be nice if they didn't kill people to make a few bucks.

https://medium.com/the-naked-archite...a-87b2f4b9f628

All they do is make cheap plastic garbage cheaper and more inferior than anyone else can.

[Member #4698]

Franciscass-.

Quote: For me the balance of the research indicates there is risk associated with unprotected sex in Thailand.

Whatever that risk is can be argued and working girls and their customers can make choices as they see fit.

However it is grossly irresponsible to keep suggesting it doesn't exist and that working girls should provide BBFS as a matter of course.

More irresponsible still that its OK to use what is essentially bribery to get them to overlook those risks when they first refuse to do so and finally totally reprehensible to denigrate them when they don't change their mind because they should know their only use on this earth is to serve the whims of men: quote.

Franciscass,

1. For some reason your posts are completely invisible to me whenever I am logged into the ISG. This vanishing act is unlike a forum ignore in that all indications that you have even posted are gone. I have no idea how this came about. I wish I could use this total white out on a few troll posters that I find really offensive, but not you. Ha Ha.

2. On risks associated with barebacking: I assume there is a degree of enhanced risk over condom sex, enough to make me pay closer attention to whomever I might want to bareback than normal, but not enough to choose never to bareback. Thus, it becomes a personal risk / reward situation where every god damn punter weighs the benefits against the perceived risks and comes out with his own unique resolution of the situation.

3. Risk averse guys will condom up. Highly risk averse guys will refrain from random sex with prostitutes or even with any girl outside of mutually exclusive relationships, but even those run some degree of risk due to the fact that the virtuous wife may decide to fuck the gym instructor some afternoon and there you go. 555.

4. I think it crosses the line of none of your business, however, when you or others bring some arbitrary moral code into the discussion: "More irresponsible still that it's OK to use what is essentially bribery to get them to overlook those risks when they first refuse to do so and finally totally reprehensible to denigrate them when they don't change their mind because they should know their only use on this earth is to serve the whims of men" This line of thinking is straight out of the wok Marxist feminist ideological handbook. According to the woks all p4p is a form of slavery, male domination, and thus rape. Yep, that's where the ideology takes us. It is a very slippery slope, but it leads straight to sex re-education camps and chemical castration.

5. So, let's not go there. 555. We all like to shag Asian girls or we wouldn't find ourselves in Asia going after poon and posting on the ISG. I, for one, think I am helping the girls and doing them a big favor with my attentions. I also think that they in turn are reciprocating the favor by lending me some of their honey for short periods of time. As long as everyone is of legal age and rational mind then everything is on the up & up between two consenting adults and is nobody else's business especially that the authorities or sex police. So shag your girls the way you want to shag them and I will shag my girls the way I want and we will both be fine. Just don't hurt nobody!

[Franciscass]

I picked that stat because it is a ridiculouly unbelievable percentage if anyone is misled into thinking they must be talking about "20%" of the Nana, Soi Cowboy, Patpong and lower Sukhumvit female P4P workers, go-go girls, beer bar girls, massage shop girls, freelancers, etc turning up HIV-Positive in a recent random sampling survey. Outrageous. And irresponsible of you to just put it out there as apparent fact and then to further dismiss someone who justifiably questions it.

As far as we know, what you quoted (supposedly from 2018) was still working on that decidedly NOT random sampling survey taken from 2007:

Unexpectedly high HIV prevalence among female sex workers in Bangkok, Thailand in a respondent-driven sampling survey.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4935540/

ET no need to get so upset. My apologizes if I inadvertently did so.

One possibly unreliable stat does not mean all the reports on the subject are flawed.

As I suggested, anybody who is interested should read up on STD'S and Thailand and make up their own mind.

For me the balance of the research indicates there is risk associated with unprotected sex in Thailand.

Whatever that risk is can be argued and working girls and their customers can make choices as they see fit.

However it is grossly irresponsible to keep suggesting it doesn't exist and that working girls should provide BBFS as a matter of course.

More irresponsible still that its OK to use what is essentially bribery to get them to overlook those risks when they first refuse to do so and finally totally reprehensible to denigrate them when they don't change their mind because they should know their only use on this earth is to serve the whims of men.

[Sinofaguo]

But? If I did I most certainly wouldn't buy them from China, I don't want anything that was "made" there.

would you buy cancer meds?

Like 70 to 80% of the active principles used in medecine from western countries are produced in China & India.

China sells all kinds of quality goods. If you're going to negociate the price to the lowest and don't spend a dollar on quality controle don't expect your product to be of quality, that's for sure.

So wether you like it or know it, yes its likely your medecine have a link with China.

[EihTooms]

Not surprising ET you cherry pick from what were a number of articles on the realty of STD's in Thailand.

You selected a particular stat of 20% infection in Bangkok and debunked it by a less than convincing questioning of the sampling used. Maybe you are partly correct, who knows, anyway that was just one stat out of many.

What I would simply suggest if anybody wants to what find what the facts are, what the science says, take 30 minutes or so and google "Thailand and STD'S" . Yes the internet is full of bullshit and both sides of any argument from climate change deniers to Elvis is alive believers will find sites that support them. But if one puts aside personal prejudices looks at the data, looks at the source of that data, double checks that source for validity, I believe no reasonable person can come away with a mindset that unprotected sex in Thailand is just fine.

That said I'm not moralizing. If somebody wants BBFS, that's their prerogative and good luck to them when they find ladies willing to oblige.

What I find just plain wrong is saying its ok to entice women who initially object to doing it by offering them extra money. Sure, yes they can say no, nobody has a gun to their head but they say no in the beginning for a reason, because they believe it can be dangerous to their health. So why would you want to take that away from them.

Move on leave them alone, there are lots of other girls who will give you what you need. Infinitely more objectionable, in fact despicable are those who feel its ok to remove the condom during sex without her consent.

From the CDC.

Chlamydia is a common sexually transmitted disease (STD) caused by infection with Chlamydia trachomatis. It can cause cervicitis in women and urethritis and proctitis in both men and women. Chlamydial infections in women can lead to serious consequences including pelvic inflammatory disease (PID), tubal factor infertility, ectopic pregnancy, and chronic pelvic pain.

Easily curable with antibiotics but hardly harmless.

I picked that stat because it is a ridiculouly unbelievable percentage if anyone is misled into thinking they must be talking about "20%" of the Nana, Soi Cowboy, Patpong and lower Sukhumvit female P4P workers, go-go girls, beer bar girls, massage shop girls, freelancers, etc turning up HIV-Positive in a recent random sampling survey. Outrageous. And irresponsible of you to just put it out there as apparent fact and then to further dismiss someone who justifiably questions it.

As far as we know, what you quoted (supposedly from 2018) was still working on that decidedly NOT random sampling survey taken from 2007:

Unexpectedly high HIV prevalence among female sex workers in Bangkok, Thailand in a respondent-driven sampling survey.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4935540/

[LittleBigMan]

But? If I did I most certainly wouldn't buy them from China, I don't want anything that was "made" there.

If you would buy condoms made there, would you buy cancer meds?

I understand your sentiment about China " made in China " certainly when it comes to Condom not sure what the big deal about them but to each his own. I was raised on Trojans and that is what I used never had one break on me I go to Costco get me the largest box with Lube my rate I still have plenty left even after expiration date I'm no Mr. E or M. P.

If you dig and it isn't hard then you better start with your Cell Phone majority of the parts which run the phone the metal is all from China to make those so call chips. Until a few years back American Hospital was ordering unknowingly from China cancer medicine until they discover many were fake couldn't tell them from the real stuff. Then let's not forget all the dog food or the painted lead on all the toys being sold at Toy are Us, or all the sheetrock sold throughout the USA The list goes on and on just ask Ikea or Walmart?

Years ago China knew this day was coming so many of their factories have been moved out of China since the so-called cheap labor they have is no longer cheap so they have also moved many of the factories to other countries for even cheaper labor. Even before the trade war China, for example, contracted with a number of Thai companies to ship products to Thailand repackage as made in Thailand then ship to the USA It is only recently America is finding this out.

It is taken 30 plus years for China to do what it has been doing it will take just as long to turn it around but meantime check you boxers see where those Fruit of Looms are made?

[Franciscass]

Whenever I see that alarming "20%" figure for the percentage of female sex workers in Bangkok who tested positive for HIV, I have to at least mention that, as I read about this "survey" in more detail, it seemed to me it was definitely NOT from a random sampling of go-go dancers, freelancers, massage shop girls, BJ Bar girls, etc as one might erroneously conclude. It was decidedly NOT that kind of survey and was instead the kind of survey that is routinely dismissed among serious research and polling services. As I recall, some HIV-positive patients in a clinic were paid and given free treatment if they then recruited other potentially HIV-positive subjects to enter the study who would in turn also be paid money for their participation and given free treatment.

As one might expect, the deputized "recruiters" did not walk around randomly tapping on the shoulders of hookers in the Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy bars, on the street and in the massage shops to come in to be tested. No, they went to the people they already knew in their circle, perhaps not even hookers at all but just junkies willing to say they were hookers (perhaps, being junkies, they did trade sex for money somewhere at some point) and, therefore, the "researchers" for the study were force fed a deck of players highly stacked in favor of being HIV-positive in ways that have nothing to do with meeting any one of us in a bar or massage shop we have ever entered.

Not surprising ET you cherry pick from what were a number of articles on the realty of STD's in Thailand.

You selected a particular stat of 20% infection in Bangkok and debunked it by a less than convincing questioning of the sampling used. Maybe you are partly correct, who knows, anyway that was just one stat out of many.

What I would simply suggest if anybody wants to what find what the facts are, what the science says, take 30 minutes or so and google "Thailand and STD'S" . Yes the internet is full of bullshit and both sides of any argument from climate change deniers to Elvis is alive believers will find sites that support them. But if one puts aside personal prejudices looks at the data, looks at the source of that data, double checks that source for validity, I believe no reasonable person can come away with a mindset that unprotected sex in Thailand is just fine.

That said I'm not moralizing. If somebody wants BBFS, that's their prerogative and good luck to them when they find ladies willing to oblige.

What I find just plain wrong is saying its ok to entice women who initially object to doing it by offering them extra money. Sure, yes they can say no, nobody has a gun to their head but they say no in the beginning for a reason, because they believe it can be dangerous to their health. So why would you want to take that away from them.

Move on leave them alone, there are lots of other girls who will give you what you need. Infinitely more objectionable, in fact despicable are those who feel its ok to remove the condom during sex without her consent.

From the CDC.

Chlamydia is a common sexually transmitted disease (STD) caused by infection with Chlamydia trachomatis. It can cause cervicitis in women and urethritis and proctitis in both men and women. Chlamydial infections in women can lead to serious consequences including pelvic inflammatory disease (PID), tubal factor infertility, ectopic pregnancy, and chronic pelvic pain.

Easily curable with antibiotics but hardly harmless.

[MarquisdeSade1]

I just read this: "A Chinese company has created the world's thinnest latex condom, snagging the Guinness World Record for the barely-there rubber. The so-called Aoni condom measures just 0. 0014 inches (0. 036 millimeters) thick, beating the previous record-holder, Okamoto of Japan.". I think I will give this a try and would recommend it to you. If you are not interested, well, continue using your hand.

But? If I did I most certainly wouldn't buy them from China, I don't want anything that was "made" there.

If you would buy condoms made there, would you buy cancer meds?

[EihTooms]

...

Thailand, HIV prevalence is higher among male sex workers than female. In 2018, of the estimated 145,000 sex workers in the country, HIV prevalence was approximately 4% among male sex workers and 1.7% among female sex workers. However, urban settings have shown to yield exceptionally high HIV prevalence among female sex workers, as high as 20% in Bangkok.
...

Whenever I see that alarming "20%" figure for the percentage of female sex workers in Bangkok who tested positive for HIV, I have to at least mention that, as I read about this "survey" in more detail, it seemed to me it was definitely NOT from a random sampling of go-go dancers, freelancers, massage shop girls, BJ Bar girls, etc as one might erroneously conclude. It was decidedly NOT that kind of survey and was instead the kind of survey that is routinely dismissed among serious research and polling services. As I recall, some HIV-positive patients in a clinic were paid and given free treatment if they then recruited other potentially HIV-positive subjects to enter the study who would in turn also be paid money for their participation and given free treatment.

As one might expect, the deputized "recruiters" did not walk around randomly tapping on the shoulders of hookers in the Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy bars, on the street and in the massage shops to come in to be tested. No, they went to the people they already knew in their circle, perhaps not even hookers at all but just junkies willing to say they were hookers (perhaps, being junkies, they did trade sex for money somewhere at some point) and, therefore, the "researchers" for the study were force fed a deck of players highly stacked in favor of being HIV-positive in ways that have nothing to do with meeting any one of us in a bar or massage shop we have ever entered.

[EihTooms]

It is only a single case but for a fact a cousin of mine contracted chlamydia while on holiday here.

...

Not to dismiss your cousin's plight, but is that the closest to a "long term health issue" anecdote due to P4P sex with which you are personally familiar? Not sure if that has much to do with being a sex worker or the customer for one. Isn't chlamydia pretty much all over the place, transmittable through oral sex and even if you wear a condom? And I think it is curable, not destined to be a long term health issue after you get treated for it.

In a related matter, I stopped in at a newly named go-go bar called "Random" on the second level of Nana Plaza. As I recall, it used to be Rainbow 3 Bar. The fat mamasan that nobody liked when she worked at Crazy House is the mamasan there.

A rather rough looking but kind of cute little blondish go-go girl was lobbying very hard for my attention as soon as I walked in. Little wonder since I was the only customer in the place at around 10pm as was the case with a couple of other go-go bars I stopped in tonight. Monday night. The venue was like a ghost town. Maybe 20 customers in the whole Plaza with several go-go bars open, each with stages full of girls. No more than two customers in any bar except maybe Billboard and Butterflies.

I thought she was kind of cute so I called her over for a Lady Drink, wound up buying her two because she kept rubbing her heavily tattooed little body (butt) all over my lap and chest and was really into DFK me every time she turned to face me. It finally started to work for me even though her overly tattooed, demonstrably "slutty" look and demeanor is not really my thing.

Anyway, after my girl's second Lady Drink was brought to our little table the annoying mamasan came over to propose a barfine deal between the girl and me. I politely waved her off but not before she annoyingly interjected with "1,000 baht barfine, 3,000 for the girl if Short Time, 5,000 if Long Time." uh-huh. A few minutes more of butt rubbing and DFK from the girl, then I privately offered to pay the barfine and give her 3,000 baht for LT, boom boom no condom. Her answer was, "No, cannot. Must use condom because Covid."

I wasn't sure I heard her right so I asked her to repeat it, "Because of Covid?"

"Yes", she said, "I afraid of Covid. Must use condom."

Well, folks, here we go.

I thanked her for her time, paid my bill and left.

[HorseTrader]

I've never had a gal complain about my putting lube inside s condom. Sometime they ask why and I reply in Thai, because it keeps the condom from breaking. Never had an issues after telling them that.

You speaking Thai is an advantage over me. If she has good English skills, I explain that I need lube inside the condom for the way it feels to me. That doesn't work with girls with limited English.

[Paolo99]

I am not foolish enough to believe that posters who get STDs would report that fact on this forum, 8 years of reading ISG has shown that they would not. The peace of mind of using a condom is priceless and makes the experience all round much more enjoyable for me.

Forum members catching an std has been discussed on the forum, but these were mostly stories of STD caught after BBBJ.

The forum being anonymous, I don't see a reason for a member to not talk about it if the discussion pops up.

I occasionally did some girls bareback and never caught an STD that I was aware of, except one time after receiving a BBBJ from a girl that I was already meeting for the last 2 weeks prior the infection.

[Franciscass]

Many of the hundreds of girls I have had sex with in Thailand still have my Line contact and could easily follow up to tell me about any long term health issues they have lived with or encountered years later after having had sex with me or someone else. But they don't. And it certainly wouldn't be like them to keep news of their ailments to themselves.

It is only a single case but for a fact a cousin of mine contracted chlamydia while on holiday here.

A simple google search on Thailand and STD'S reveals the following sample the reality of unprotected sex and please spare me it's all fake news argument.

Thailand has one of the highest rates of HIV in Asia (estimated in 2016 at 450,000 out of a population of 70 million), with 1.1% adult HIV prevalence- this highest in the AEC region. HIV mostly affects sex workers, men who have sex with men, transgender people, and people who inject drugs.

Thailand, HIV prevalence is higher among male sex workers than female. In 2018, of the estimated 145,000 sex workers in the country, HIV prevalence was approximately 4% among male sex workers and 1.7% among female sex workers. However, urban settings have shown to yield exceptionally high HIV prevalence among female sex workers, as high as 20% in Bangkok.

In 2018, 6, 400 people in Thailand became infected with HIV. Roughly two-thirds were men (4,400 infections among adult men, compared to 1,900 infections among adult women.

In 2018, it was estimated that around 40% of new infections occurred among men who have sex with men and transgender women, 10% among sex workers and their clients, and 11% among people who inject drugs. Around 29% of new infections are estimated to occur from spousal transmission, 21% of these from husbands to wives.

The fear that syphilis is said to have made a comeback is apparently not just public paranoia. Infectious medicine specialist Dr Thanason Thummakul acknowledged that the occurrence is indeed on the rise. Based on Bangrak STIs Centre's figures, syphilis cases have reportedly increased significantly during the past four years. Per 100,000 population, only around 2-3 infected cases were reported in 2009. Fast-forward to 2018, Thailand saw almost 12 syphilis patients per 100,000 population.

"A sharp rise is mainly a result of unprotected sex," said Dr Thanason. "Although syphilis can be found in people of all ages, now a very large number of the cases are diagnosed among teens and men who have sex with men."

[Allover]

Regards to charity.

I sent $5,000 to my Kalasin GF I met at Baccarat to buy a Grade A Buffalo.

When I asked for a photograph she said he ran away before they could iPhone photo him.

Now she wants another $5,000. She said she won't make the same mistake twice. LOL.

Hopefully you won't make the same mistake twice either.