Bangkok Reports

[EihTooms]

The girls are definitely more desperate, more eager for business, less likely to haggle much and maybe give better service in hopes of repeats (though not always, habits are hard to change! However, the scene quality has already been in sharp decline for several years before Covid, and right now it's all the same girls, only fewer of them, the duller ones who didn't figure out it's time for a change. It's clearly NOT in any way comparable to the pre-2010 golden era on lower Sukhumvit.

Many of the nights I walked around and visited a few venues without finding a single girl I'd feel compelled to pursue. Maybe a few I would pick if it were my last week in Thailand (it's not), but 90% are not even in that category. In the real golden era, I wasn't searching for a passable one, but choosing among attractive ones.

In addition, desperation is not fun. Sure, you'll shag more for less, but the vibe is definitely off.

I am not sensing the least bit of "desperation" from the girls to provide more or better service than they would have ordinarily except for the ones who were already my regulars or repeats, as I mentioned. And I think that is more a matter of rare Thai girl gratitude since none of them have much reason to be desperate. New ones are only willing to lower their price by some pleasantly acceptable but hardly life altering percentage.

The same level of attractive new girls who refused BBFS with me during normal times are still doing it now and perfectly fine to watch me and my 2,500 - 3,000 baht offered walk away no matter how devoid of other customers the area is, how late on their rent they are or weeks without milk their babies and family buffalo have gone.

I realize that is wonderful news for several members here. But since Natty's friend's anecdote turned quite a bit on his hot and popular girl finally agreeing to BBFS as the sign for this supposed new Golden Era, it is a factor that applies to my observations as well.

Many of my fellow expats and frequent Bangkok visitor friends who found themselves stuck on the outside have been calling, sending me Line messages and emails begging me to tell them this economic downturn has caused the scene here to become a monger's paradise of the hottest girls handing out BBFS and BBBJ+CIM+Swallow left and right for rock bottom prices. Like Natty's friend's anecdote but 1000 times over.

Nope. You guys can sleep well at night in your home country knowing that ain't happening as far as this punter has noticed.

[Crocodilexp]

A friend of mine is in BKK right now. He tells me things are pretty amazing girl wise... It is like a golden era that happens once every 50 years or so. I wish I was in BKK right now!

The girls are definitely more desperate, more eager for business, less likely to haggle much and maybe give better service in hopes of repeats (though not always, habits are hard to change! However, the scene quality has already been in sharp decline for several years before Covid, and right now it's all the same girls, only fewer of them, the duller ones who didn't figure out it's time for a change. It's clearly NOT in any way comparable to the pre-2010 golden era on lower Sukhumvit.

Many of the nights I walked around and visited a few venues without finding a single girl I'd feel compelled to pursue. Maybe a few I would pick if it were my last week in Thailand (it's not), but 90% are not even in that category. In the real golden era, I wasn't searching for a passable one, but choosing among attractive ones.

In addition, desperation is not fun. Sure, you'll shag more for less, but the vibe is definitely off.

[Member #4698]

A friend of mine is in BKK right now. He tells me things are pretty amazing girl wise. For example, the other night he went to Baccara and Sharks on Cowboy. He had not been there for a long time. He saw a girl he once knew who used to work pre-Corona in Nana. Back then she was one of the most popular girls in Rainbow 4 and usually enjoyed 2 barfines per night. My friend had even barfined her a couple of times but then stopped because she was kind of cold and mechanical despite her hot looks. We all know the type: minimal DFK, no DATY, covered mish sex only, and in the bathroom cleaning up the second the session is over.

So he sees her over in a popular Cowboy Go Go, but does not call her over on account of his past experience with this one. There are maybe 5 or 6 other customers in the bar and it is a Saturday night - 10 pm. Eventually she wanders over to him and says Hello,. He offers her a drink for ol' times sake and she sits down, sips her drink and begins fooling around with his crotch under the table with her free hand. Long story short, he barfines her, takes her back to his apartment, and guess what? She is a different girl than the one he knew pre Corona: DFK and a BJ in the shower and another one on the bed. Then she moves up in between his legs and begins to mount him bareback. He gives her a surprised look and she responds, this OK, with a smile. Get the picture? And when it is all over she lays next to him on her side and caresses him. Later she asks if he wants to do it again. He says no not now and she says OK, but I can stay the night and we can boom boom in the morning, no extra charge if you want.

This is the kind of attitude change I keep hearing more and more about from friends and fellow punters who are in BKK at the moment during the pandemic. It is like a golden era that happens once every 50 years or so. I wish I was in BKK right now! [Deleted by Admin]

[Sinofaguo]

All they do is make cheap plastic garbage

Oh they for sure do plastic garbage & all sorts of other garbage but that's not "all they do".
They also make high end devices, are 2 years ahead in the 5G tech and now have most IT unicorns worldwide and are gaining a signeficant advance within artificial inteligence, automation robotics and even green techs.

Life isn't black or white nor do things stay the same forever...

[Franciscass]

Franciscass-.

Quote: For me the balance of the research indicates there is risk associated with unprotected sex in Thailand.

Whatever that risk is can be argued and working girls and their customers can make choices as they see fit.

However it is grossly irresponsible to keep suggesting it doesn't exist and that working girls should provide BBFS as a matter of course.

More irresponsible still that its OK to use what is essentially bribery to get them to overlook those risks when they first refuse to do so and finally totally reprehensible to denigrate them when they don't change their mind because they should know their only use on this earth is to serve the whims of men: quote.

This is written in vanishing ink Natty so if interested better read it quick before it disappears.

Some clarifications if I may.

Pointing out there are risks associated with BBFS is not a moral issue it is a health issue.

Pushing back on misogynistic posts on the forum is common decency and respect for women.

I wholly respect the rights of consenting adults to do with each other without restriction whatever turns them on.

I disagree with any form of enticement, inducement coercion subtle or not to change the standards a girl who initially refuses BBFS.

I have enjoyed living here for well over 20 years, love the people, the food and the ladies.

I don't regard P4P as a form of slavery, how could I when in truth it is one of the reasons I live here.

I don't look down on the girls in the business as lazy poor illiterate WGs from the fields out to scam their way through life.

I don't regard taking care of some of them when they are genuinely down and out as is happening now as being taken advantage of.

Oops too long, already starting to disappear, bye Natty. Stay safe.

[EihTooms]

...

However it is grossly irresponsible to keep suggesting it doesn't exist and that working girls should provide BBFS as a matter of course.

More irresponsible still that its OK to use what is essentially bribery to get them to overlook those risks when they first refuse to do so and finally totally reprehensible to denigrate them when they don't change their mind because they should know their only use on this earth is to serve the whims of men.

One of the reasons I'm not a big fan of the "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" approach with regard to a session leading to BBFS is because that popular and seemingly benign method is far more apt to intimidate, manipulate and corner a girl into going along with BBFS against her better judgement than the way I do it.

The "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" punter has no idea why a girl doesn't brandish a condom and insist on its use at crunch time. I submit it could be because she has devoted a significant portion of the evening "off the market" with him and is worried about rocking the boat on anything he intends to do with her for fear of being put out with little or no money after investing so much time with him. Or by then she is so drunk from the drinks he and others bought for her that she isn't capable of making any sober decisions at all. Or by then she might even be reading his charming demeanor and their chemistry together as an indication she has a potential repeat customer here and her family could sure use that kind of ongoing income. He might even by then have gone so far as to tell her how "in love" he is with her he wants to take care of her and her family for a long time. Or, taking the opposite view, by then she might have seen in him a tendency to react a little too hot or angrily whenever he is crossed (by a server, a mamasan, another customer, a taxi driver, the hotel staff) and the last thing she wants is to cause another flare up and find his hands around her throat or balling up a fist.

I could come up with another half dozen reasons a girl to whom a "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" approach has been applied would not bring everything to a screetching halt at crunch time and insist on a condom that have nothing whatsoever to do with the girl "wanting" to fuck the man bareback for the sheer superior physical and sexual pleasure of it. Yet punters who think that preferred method is benign or "leaves it up to the girl" and that my method is "forcing" the girl to do something she wouldn't ordinarily agree to do love to tell themselves that's why the girl didn't work harder to insist on using a condom with them.

Anyone who is curious to find out if a girl "wants" or is genuinely inclined to be ok to fuck you bareback without it being a matter of force, intimidation, manipulation or cornering her into it at crunch time, imo the closest way to find out is drop the self-deluding "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" approach and try it my Upfront Agreement way; hit up girls earlier in the evening when they are sober and really do have the time and opportunity to say NO to you and choose another customer, not at closing time, not after she is falling down drunk, not when her only viable option is either you and whatever you want or to pay her own taxi fare back to her room alone with no other money. Then tell her you are interested in bareback as close as possible to the beginning of your encounter, at the second Lady Drink maximum, and long before she has committed and invested significant portions of her market/selling time "off the market" with you and with no one else. Then see if you can swing an Upfront Agreement for it.

I'd be surprised if there are 2 other punters in all of Thailand who go about scoring bareback with the girls as fair and square and without force, manipulation or intimidation as I do it. Hell, I "negotiated" BBFS (and was refused that AND BBBJ+CIM) with the Sukhumvit Road freelancer whose report of mine triggered much of this latest bareback discussion at 9AM in the morning, on the phone, while she was still laying in bed and hadn't even taken a taxi to her regular near Soi 19 stroll. In fact, she called me wanting to know that early in the day if she was going to book a session with me so she could decide whether or not to take the day off. And when we didn't book a session, sure enough I did not see her working in her spot that day or night. So much for being forced to agree to anything with me out of "desperation." lol

Add to that what you have generously pointed out about my at least having the consideration and courtesy to have gotten a vasectomy and always have a recent blood check document on hand to show anyone who wants to see it and I'd say my methods are about as responsible for scoring bareback as it is possible to get in the Thai P4P scene. But anyone else who has the brass punter balls I think it requires to do it my way rather than all the other more manipulative ways be warned: You WILL get a lot of refusals. And a lot of those refusals will be from girls who likely would have gone along with bareback fucking you if you had applied the "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" approach, especially if you had gone for it after she was clearly drunk, late at night when they have very few other options and certainly if at such a moment you offer them even more money for it.

The increased refusal rate is a high emotional price to pay in order to be as fair and square and non intimidating about it as I try to be about it. I suspect it is too high a price to pay for the vast majority of bareback-seeking punters. But I don't do it that way to be a hero and not for purely altruistic reasons. Mostly I do it that way because the sessions I get with girls who agree upfront to fuck me bareback when they are sober and could easily choose another customer instead are much better than what I get if I go to the extremes of timing it and manipulating them into it I read in other reports.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Like 70 to 80% of the active principles used in medecine from western countries are produced in China & India.

China sells all kinds of quality goods. If you're going to negociate the price to the lowest and don't spend a dollar on quality controle don't expect your product to be of quality, that's for sure.

So wether you like it or know it, yes its likely your medecine have a link with China.

I didn't say any link? I wouldn't want a medicine as "finished product" from China I would prefer 0%.

But a small % is much different than a "finished product".

I was Mexico last year, I went to a farmacia, I went to a chain store and the farmacist advised me not buy to medicine in Mexico, he suggested I cross the border and buy in the USA.

He was a very nice man, and didn't want me getting even sicker, I'm guessing the cheap meds they sell in Mexico are knock offs made in China.

If they want to make knock offs it would be nice if they didn't kill people to make a few bucks.

https://medium.com/the-naked-archite...a-87b2f4b9f628

All they do is make cheap plastic garbage cheaper and more inferior than anyone else can.

[Member #4698]

Franciscass-.

Quote: For me the balance of the research indicates there is risk associated with unprotected sex in Thailand.

Whatever that risk is can be argued and working girls and their customers can make choices as they see fit.

However it is grossly irresponsible to keep suggesting it doesn't exist and that working girls should provide BBFS as a matter of course.

More irresponsible still that its OK to use what is essentially bribery to get them to overlook those risks when they first refuse to do so and finally totally reprehensible to denigrate them when they don't change their mind because they should know their only use on this earth is to serve the whims of men: quote.

Franciscass,

1. For some reason your posts are completely invisible to me whenever I am logged into the ISG. This vanishing act is unlike a forum ignore in that all indications that you have even posted are gone. I have no idea how this came about. I wish I could use this total white out on a few troll posters that I find really offensive, but not you. Ha Ha.

2. On risks associated with barebacking: I assume there is a degree of enhanced risk over condom sex, enough to make me pay closer attention to whomever I might want to bareback than normal, but not enough to choose never to bareback. Thus, it becomes a personal risk / reward situation where every god damn punter weighs the benefits against the perceived risks and comes out with his own unique resolution of the situation.

3. Risk averse guys will condom up. Highly risk averse guys will refrain from random sex with prostitutes or even with any girl outside of mutually exclusive relationships, but even those run some degree of risk due to the fact that the virtuous wife may decide to fuck the gym instructor some afternoon and there you go. 555.

4. I think it crosses the line of none of your business, however, when you or others bring some arbitrary moral code into the discussion: "More irresponsible still that it's OK to use what is essentially bribery to get them to overlook those risks when they first refuse to do so and finally totally reprehensible to denigrate them when they don't change their mind because they should know their only use on this earth is to serve the whims of men" This line of thinking is straight out of the wok Marxist feminist ideological handbook. According to the woks all p4p is a form of slavery, male domination, and thus rape. Yep, that's where the ideology takes us. It is a very slippery slope, but it leads straight to sex re-education camps and chemical castration.

5. So, let's not go there. 555. We all like to shag Asian girls or we wouldn't find ourselves in Asia going after poon and posting on the ISG. I, for one, think I am helping the girls and doing them a big favor with my attentions. I also think that they in turn are reciprocating the favor by lending me some of their honey for short periods of time. As long as everyone is of legal age and rational mind then everything is on the up & up between two consenting adults and is nobody else's business especially that the authorities or sex police. So shag your girls the way you want to shag them and I will shag my girls the way I want and we will both be fine. Just don't hurt nobody!

[Franciscass]

I picked that stat because it is a ridiculouly unbelievable percentage if anyone is misled into thinking they must be talking about "20%" of the Nana, Soi Cowboy, Patpong and lower Sukhumvit female P4P workers, go-go girls, beer bar girls, massage shop girls, freelancers, etc turning up HIV-Positive in a recent random sampling survey. Outrageous. And irresponsible of you to just put it out there as apparent fact and then to further dismiss someone who justifiably questions it.

As far as we know, what you quoted (supposedly from 2018) was still working on that decidedly NOT random sampling survey taken from 2007:

Unexpectedly high HIV prevalence among female sex workers in Bangkok, Thailand in a respondent-driven sampling survey.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4935540/

ET no need to get so upset. My apologizes if I inadvertently did so.

One possibly unreliable stat does not mean all the reports on the subject are flawed.

As I suggested, anybody who is interested should read up on STD'S and Thailand and make up their own mind.

For me the balance of the research indicates there is risk associated with unprotected sex in Thailand.

Whatever that risk is can be argued and working girls and their customers can make choices as they see fit.

However it is grossly irresponsible to keep suggesting it doesn't exist and that working girls should provide BBFS as a matter of course.

More irresponsible still that its OK to use what is essentially bribery to get them to overlook those risks when they first refuse to do so and finally totally reprehensible to denigrate them when they don't change their mind because they should know their only use on this earth is to serve the whims of men.

[Sinofaguo]

But? If I did I most certainly wouldn't buy them from China, I don't want anything that was "made" there.

would you buy cancer meds?

Like 70 to 80% of the active principles used in medecine from western countries are produced in China & India.

China sells all kinds of quality goods. If you're going to negociate the price to the lowest and don't spend a dollar on quality controle don't expect your product to be of quality, that's for sure.

So wether you like it or know it, yes its likely your medecine have a link with China.

[EihTooms]

Not surprising ET you cherry pick from what were a number of articles on the realty of STD's in Thailand.

You selected a particular stat of 20% infection in Bangkok and debunked it by a less than convincing questioning of the sampling used. Maybe you are partly correct, who knows, anyway that was just one stat out of many.

What I would simply suggest if anybody wants to what find what the facts are, what the science says, take 30 minutes or so and google "Thailand and STD'S" . Yes the internet is full of bullshit and both sides of any argument from climate change deniers to Elvis is alive believers will find sites that support them. But if one puts aside personal prejudices looks at the data, looks at the source of that data, double checks that source for validity, I believe no reasonable person can come away with a mindset that unprotected sex in Thailand is just fine.

That said I'm not moralizing. If somebody wants BBFS, that's their prerogative and good luck to them when they find ladies willing to oblige.

What I find just plain wrong is saying its ok to entice women who initially object to doing it by offering them extra money. Sure, yes they can say no, nobody has a gun to their head but they say no in the beginning for a reason, because they believe it can be dangerous to their health. So why would you want to take that away from them.

Move on leave them alone, there are lots of other girls who will give you what you need. Infinitely more objectionable, in fact despicable are those who feel its ok to remove the condom during sex without her consent.

From the CDC.

Chlamydia is a common sexually transmitted disease (STD) caused by infection with Chlamydia trachomatis. It can cause cervicitis in women and urethritis and proctitis in both men and women. Chlamydial infections in women can lead to serious consequences including pelvic inflammatory disease (PID), tubal factor infertility, ectopic pregnancy, and chronic pelvic pain.

Easily curable with antibiotics but hardly harmless.

I picked that stat because it is a ridiculouly unbelievable percentage if anyone is misled into thinking they must be talking about "20%" of the Nana, Soi Cowboy, Patpong and lower Sukhumvit female P4P workers, go-go girls, beer bar girls, massage shop girls, freelancers, etc turning up HIV-Positive in a recent random sampling survey. Outrageous. And irresponsible of you to just put it out there as apparent fact and then to further dismiss someone who justifiably questions it.

As far as we know, what you quoted (supposedly from 2018) was still working on that decidedly NOT random sampling survey taken from 2007:

Unexpectedly high HIV prevalence among female sex workers in Bangkok, Thailand in a respondent-driven sampling survey.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4935540/

[LittleBigMan]

But? If I did I most certainly wouldn't buy them from China, I don't want anything that was "made" there.

If you would buy condoms made there, would you buy cancer meds?

I understand your sentiment about China " made in China " certainly when it comes to Condom not sure what the big deal about them but to each his own. I was raised on Trojans and that is what I used never had one break on me I go to Costco get me the largest box with Lube my rate I still have plenty left even after expiration date I'm no Mr. E or M. P.

If you dig and it isn't hard then you better start with your Cell Phone majority of the parts which run the phone the metal is all from China to make those so call chips. Until a few years back American Hospital was ordering unknowingly from China cancer medicine until they discover many were fake couldn't tell them from the real stuff. Then let's not forget all the dog food or the painted lead on all the toys being sold at Toy are Us, or all the sheetrock sold throughout the USA The list goes on and on just ask Ikea or Walmart?

Years ago China knew this day was coming so many of their factories have been moved out of China since the so-called cheap labor they have is no longer cheap so they have also moved many of the factories to other countries for even cheaper labor. Even before the trade war China, for example, contracted with a number of Thai companies to ship products to Thailand repackage as made in Thailand then ship to the USA It is only recently America is finding this out.

It is taken 30 plus years for China to do what it has been doing it will take just as long to turn it around but meantime check you boxers see where those Fruit of Looms are made?

[Franciscass]

Whenever I see that alarming "20%" figure for the percentage of female sex workers in Bangkok who tested positive for HIV, I have to at least mention that, as I read about this "survey" in more detail, it seemed to me it was definitely NOT from a random sampling of go-go dancers, freelancers, massage shop girls, BJ Bar girls, etc as one might erroneously conclude. It was decidedly NOT that kind of survey and was instead the kind of survey that is routinely dismissed among serious research and polling services. As I recall, some HIV-positive patients in a clinic were paid and given free treatment if they then recruited other potentially HIV-positive subjects to enter the study who would in turn also be paid money for their participation and given free treatment.

As one might expect, the deputized "recruiters" did not walk around randomly tapping on the shoulders of hookers in the Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy bars, on the street and in the massage shops to come in to be tested. No, they went to the people they already knew in their circle, perhaps not even hookers at all but just junkies willing to say they were hookers (perhaps, being junkies, they did trade sex for money somewhere at some point) and, therefore, the "researchers" for the study were force fed a deck of players highly stacked in favor of being HIV-positive in ways that have nothing to do with meeting any one of us in a bar or massage shop we have ever entered.

Not surprising ET you cherry pick from what were a number of articles on the realty of STD's in Thailand.

You selected a particular stat of 20% infection in Bangkok and debunked it by a less than convincing questioning of the sampling used. Maybe you are partly correct, who knows, anyway that was just one stat out of many.

What I would simply suggest if anybody wants to what find what the facts are, what the science says, take 30 minutes or so and google "Thailand and STD'S" . Yes the internet is full of bullshit and both sides of any argument from climate change deniers to Elvis is alive believers will find sites that support them. But if one puts aside personal prejudices looks at the data, looks at the source of that data, double checks that source for validity, I believe no reasonable person can come away with a mindset that unprotected sex in Thailand is just fine.

That said I'm not moralizing. If somebody wants BBFS, that's their prerogative and good luck to them when they find ladies willing to oblige.

What I find just plain wrong is saying its ok to entice women who initially object to doing it by offering them extra money. Sure, yes they can say no, nobody has a gun to their head but they say no in the beginning for a reason, because they believe it can be dangerous to their health. So why would you want to take that away from them.

Move on leave them alone, there are lots of other girls who will give you what you need. Infinitely more objectionable, in fact despicable are those who feel its ok to remove the condom during sex without her consent.

From the CDC.

Chlamydia is a common sexually transmitted disease (STD) caused by infection with Chlamydia trachomatis. It can cause cervicitis in women and urethritis and proctitis in both men and women. Chlamydial infections in women can lead to serious consequences including pelvic inflammatory disease (PID), tubal factor infertility, ectopic pregnancy, and chronic pelvic pain.

Easily curable with antibiotics but hardly harmless.

[MarquisdeSade1]

I just read this: "A Chinese company has created the world's thinnest latex condom, snagging the Guinness World Record for the barely-there rubber. The so-called Aoni condom measures just 0. 0014 inches (0. 036 millimeters) thick, beating the previous record-holder, Okamoto of Japan.". I think I will give this a try and would recommend it to you. If you are not interested, well, continue using your hand.

But? If I did I most certainly wouldn't buy them from China, I don't want anything that was "made" there.

If you would buy condoms made there, would you buy cancer meds?

[EihTooms]

...

Thailand, HIV prevalence is higher among male sex workers than female. In 2018, of the estimated 145,000 sex workers in the country, HIV prevalence was approximately 4% among male sex workers and 1.7% among female sex workers. However, urban settings have shown to yield exceptionally high HIV prevalence among female sex workers, as high as 20% in Bangkok.
...

Whenever I see that alarming "20%" figure for the percentage of female sex workers in Bangkok who tested positive for HIV, I have to at least mention that, as I read about this "survey" in more detail, it seemed to me it was definitely NOT from a random sampling of go-go dancers, freelancers, massage shop girls, BJ Bar girls, etc as one might erroneously conclude. It was decidedly NOT that kind of survey and was instead the kind of survey that is routinely dismissed among serious research and polling services. As I recall, some HIV-positive patients in a clinic were paid and given free treatment if they then recruited other potentially HIV-positive subjects to enter the study who would in turn also be paid money for their participation and given free treatment.

As one might expect, the deputized "recruiters" did not walk around randomly tapping on the shoulders of hookers in the Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy bars, on the street and in the massage shops to come in to be tested. No, they went to the people they already knew in their circle, perhaps not even hookers at all but just junkies willing to say they were hookers (perhaps, being junkies, they did trade sex for money somewhere at some point) and, therefore, the "researchers" for the study were force fed a deck of players highly stacked in favor of being HIV-positive in ways that have nothing to do with meeting any one of us in a bar or massage shop we have ever entered.