Bangkok Reports

[Bongo2577]

Hi, will be travelling to BKK soon and was wondering if anyone can share a nice massage parlor, that offer really good massage with extra services?

Many time when you go to the cheap massage places, the massage is really average and even sometime very poor, but the extra is good. I'm looking for a place where you still get skilled therapists for both the massage and the extras.

Thanks for your help.

[Werqweq]

Your response is so full of assumptions, contradictions and put downs.

So much so that your valid points are lost in your sense of moral superiority.

Living in Thailand before, and during that time having had relationships with girls ranging from masseuse girls too college girls to more than one doctor, I think Hilo77's post was very good and accurate. I did not at all notice any feeling of moral superiority, and his indian friend is spot on too.

[Hilo77]

Your response is so full of assumptions, contradictions and put downs.

So much so that your valid points are lost in your sense of moral superiority.

Most bar girls are not lost in a cynical cycle of abuse, they are lost in.

They are also not there because they are incapable of making sensible decisions.

And they are most definitely different to your streetwalkers back home, let alone crack addicted as you put it.

They are there most often because they did make serious decisions about their family financial security and how it can best be achieved.

Yes, they live a hard lifestyle, and they know it, but they also very often know why there are doing it.

I would suggest that if you've said this and believe it to be true, then you have little to no understanding of Thai familial culture that is instilled in these girls.

And which drives their decision making, sensibly for them.

Have you read anything on Thai culture, or are your views still stuck with those formed having read Private Dancer?

I know enough about Asian hookers and the guys who believe they can become their white saviours to spot naivety and western-centric assumptions I see them. I have been round the block often enough to know what I am talking about.

No one is rescuing fallen women here, only fools believe that.

[ThaiGoodTimes]

As a foreigner it is hard to grasp the difference between a Western. Individualist society versus a Thai. Collective / Hierarchical Society.

In the west we base our decisions around our own selves or immediate family. Wife and kids.

In Thailand, particularly the north east region of Isan, decisions are made much more as a collective. Often a group of families living together or sharing resources. The individual's authority is laregly based upon what resources can be provided to the wider family structure.

So you will see working girls sending a good proportion of their earnings back the family. She is very much expected to contribute. This in turn bumps up her and her families status within the group. In the west we rarely or never do this, it just isn't part of our culture.

As Thailand is very much based on a Hierarchical Society. The chances of a lady from Isan, which is one of the poorest and lowest standing regions, meeting and marrying a wealthy white Thai man from a higher society Bangkok family would be rare. So the best chance of a lady from Isan is to marry a foreigner. Foreigners don't really care about the Hierarchical structure of Thai society. As long as she is hot that is alll we care about it.

Virtually every foreigner will have a relationship with a woman from Isan. It is so common that an industry within Isan has developed around this. There are several facebook groups with 100,000's + members all about how to have a relationship with foreigners, how to get money out of a foreigner, how to take advantage of a foreigner etc Every possible subject both good and bad can found within some group on the net. Even a new woman arriving in Bangkok will have some or even quite detailed knowledge about how to get the most out of her transactions with foreign men. The days where it would take new arrivals months or even a year to become wise to the little tricks are way gone. They pick it up in days now. Adding to this they will have their family back home reminding them on a daily basis how to extract resources for the collective from a farang.

Harsh, way too harsh.

Your bitterness is still way to recent.

Tho there is a lot of very factual comments made.

The order you've listed things I would change tho.

Gold is not #1.

The desire for gold is a byproduct of their needing to satisfy their true #1, which to me is your #7, maternal grandmother, aka, the top of the hierarchy.

When they have met the demands of #1, they use their excess money to buy gold, hoping then that as they don't have any "money" they can keep it.

Have something for themselves. Some visible sign of being a success, a reward per se.

But they know, and do so often willingly, that they may have to sell it at any time to meet the next financial demands.

[Member #4753]

As a foreigner it is hard to grasp the difference between a Western. Individualist society versus a Thai. Collective / Hierarchical Society.

In the west we base our decisions around our own selves or immediate family. Wife and kids.

In Thailand, particularly the north east region of Isan, decisions are made much more as a collective. Often a group of families living together or sharing resources. The individual's authority is laregly based upon what resources can be provided to the wider family structure.

So you will see working girls sending a good proportion of their earnings back the family. She is very much expected to contribute. This in turn bumps up her and her families status within the group. In the west we rarely or never do this, it just isn't part of our culture.

As Thailand is very much based on a Hierarchical Society. The chances of a lady from Isan, which is one of the poorest and lowest standing regions, meeting and marrying a wealthy white Thai man from a higher society Bangkok family would be rare. So the best chance of a lady from Isan is to marry a foreigner. Foreigners don't really care about the Hierarchical structure of Thai society. As long as she is hot that is alll we care about it.

Virtually every foreigner will have a relationship with a woman from Isan. It is so common that an industry within Isan has developed around this. There are several facebook groups with 100,000's + members all about how to have a relationship with foreigners, how to get money out of a foreigner, how to take advantage of a foreigner etc Every possible subject both good and bad can found within some group on the net. Even a new woman arriving in Bangkok will have some or even quite detailed knowledge about how to get the most out of her transactions with foreign men. The days where it would take new arrivals months or even a year to become wise to the little tricks are way gone. They pick it up in days now. Adding to this they will have their family back home reminding them on a daily basis how to extract resources for the collective from a farang.

I had a Thai GF for about a year and of course her family was from Isan. Everytime she would go back she would get shown all the big houses or farm extensions that foreigners had purchased in her vaillage for the family. Her mother used to ask her all the time "where is my house". If you have a Thai GF you are assumed to be part of their collective and are expected to contribute. As I did not have any intention of sticking with this particular girl for too long I just used to send a relatively small amount to the family and then just ignore the rest of the requests. My good little college girl from Isan turned out to be a nightmare after a year when she finally realised that she would be better off with another foreigner.

They move on very quickly and they always have a few options worked out before they go. They will also try to keep past boyfriends on the hook. They like to have a portfolio of options to maximise their chances of getting that house in Isan for mama.

As a foreigner I will never truly understand the intricate nature of Thai Culture. My overall strategy is to protect myself. Contribute a little to a girlfriends family and dodge the big ticket items. As a foreigner we never really get any credit from something contributed anyway.

Thai Bar Girl's Priorities List: (humour yes, but illustrative none the less).

1. Money.

2. Gold.

3. Food.

4. Sleeping.

5. Child or children.

6. Watching TV.

7. Grandparents, mother, father.

8. Her Thai boyfriend or husband, siblings and other family members.

9. Monks and temples.

10. Thai friends.

11. Every other Thai person in the world, down to the lowest Bangkok beggar.

12. The family buffalo.

13. Her pet dog, cat, bird, rabbit, squirrel or rat.

14. The fleas on the pet dog, cat, bird, rabbit, squirrel or rat.

15. You.

[Crocodilexp]

Why do we think Thai hookers are any different from the streetwalkers we see back home? Would we expect a crack-addicted girl with a life that went off the rails probably a decade or more ago and is now servicing obese truckers in the backs of their cabs to suddenly realize that one of these truckers is just the partner she needs to give her the few weeks of stability that she has always craved? Of course not, we would know they were damaged goods and use them for our own short-term gratification before walking away. Why does anyone think Thai bargirls are any different?

Because, in the not so distant past, most of them have been genuinely different than the outcast hookers back home. Some of them still are, but they're few in numbers these days, so the gap is narrowing.

Pattaya and Bangkok used to be full of more or less normal village girls you could have a decent relationship with. Could last for weeks, months, years, maybe even forever. Most of them started hooking out of necessity, and 10+ years ago the situation was dire for many. Wages in the 4000-5000 baht per month range were common, and one could barely survive on that, let alone take care of a child or aging parents.

Thai prostitutes were so normal and decent that mongers often went as far as to marry them, and many of those relationships succeeded. We mostly hear about the failures, since few people in a happy marriage are blabbing about their beloved wife having been a hooker.

Try that with a hooker back home. Even if they aren't on crack, you generally want those types out of your life right after you nut, and it would be inconceivable even to take them for a "long time", let alone get involved for weeks or months.

Sadly, this is happening to Thai hookers as well, "long time" is becoming a thing of the past. Marrying a bar girl is far less common these days, since they're more or less dregs willingly stuck in a vicious cycle you described, so not many guys would consider it.

[ThaiGoodTimes]

You put your finger on it. So many guys asking "Why does this messed up uneducated young woman who has spent years working in a degrading and dangerous business that is fueled by drugs, alcohol, male sexual urges and behind the scenes, violence and extortion, not make wise, sensible long-term decisions about her life?

Guys, if she had the ability to make sensible decisions about her life, she wouldn't be having sex with you.

We aren't white knights riding into these girls' lives offering them the sweet and happy domestic bliss (or two months of regular custom) they always wanted, we're part of the cynical cycle of abuse that they have gotten themselves into.

Why do we think Thai hookers are any different from the streetwalkers we see back home? Would we expect a crack-addicted girl with a life that went off the rails probably a decade or more ago and is now servicing obese truckers in the backs of their cabs to suddenly realize that one of these truckers is just the partner she needs to give her the few weeks of stability that she has always craved? Of course not, we would know they were damaged goods and use them for our own short-term gratification before walking away. Why does anyone think Thai bargirls are any different?

These girls are not in this business because they are poor and forced into it against their will, they chose this life, disabuse yourself of the notion of the poor fallen woman.

An Indian friend of mine was entertaining some business clients in a goldfish bar. Among the clients was a wide-eyed innocent American guy who said it was so sad that these poor women were forced by poverty into such a degrading life. My friend looked at the girls, all lined up in glamourous dresses, make-up, playing with their handphones sitting on benches for an hour or so before being summoned to provide perfunctory sex with a client. He said to the American "I run a textile factory, these are exactly the sort of women I employ, healthy young women with stamina. I pay a living wage, I run a clean, airconditioned, safe factory, but let's be clear, the work is eight hours of not very strenuous but very tedious work, and I have a huge turnover of staff. I barely have them trained up before they quit out of boredom".

He then challenged the American to speak to all the girls (he knew the manager and could arrange it) tell them they can escape their life of shame and get good honest moral work in the textile factory. He even offered a bonus of $100 for every girl he recruited and saved from this life of turpitude into which they had fallen. The American wisely did not take him up on the offer and conceded that indeed, they were there by free will and choice.

Your response is so full of assumptions, contradictions and put downs.

So much so that your valid points are lost in your sense of moral superiority.

Most bar girls are not lost in a cynical cycle of abuse, they are lost in.

They are also not there because they are incapable of making sensible decisions.

And they are most definitely different to your streetwalkers back home, let alone crack addicted as you put it.

They are there most often because they did make serious decisions about their family financial security and how it can best be achieved.

Yes, they live a hard lifestyle, and they know it, but they also very often know why there are doing it.

I would suggest that if you've said this and believe it to be true, then you have little to no understanding of Thai familial culture that is instilled in these girls.

And which drives their decision making, sensibly for them.

Have you read anything on Thai culture, or are your views still stuck with those formed having read Private Dancer?

[Hilo77]

I think many Thai bargirls are addicted to exactly those things, "the constant alcohol consumption, late nights and unfamiliar clients". And to getting paid money for it. A lot of money.

Most I know could have gotten different jobs without those elements involved. But why? I honestly don't know any "poor" Thai prostitutes who must do things they hate because they have no choice. "Poor" by Thai standards, that is. The lousiest level of money they're getting for it still beats laundering hotel towels at 4 am or standing behind a hot street food cart in the weather for 10 hours a day. So that's a big part of why they do it.

Their lives before the bar life were boring unless they were hanging out with their girlfriends, the communal eating, drinking, flirting. They know very well their lives after the bar means they will now be the grandmas sitting at home with the babies.

There is a brief window of opportunity between the two for them to seize upon. Most Thai girls are too frightened to seize upon it. Bargirls are not. And many overstay their welcome.

It is an exhilarating experience for these otherwise ordinary (or less) looking and poorly educated Thai girls to be so openly catered to, tended to and paid attention to by relatively highly monied foreign men. And a game among them to see what they can get out of it.

That is a heady feeling of empowerment they have never felt until they started working at a bar and will never feel again when they hang it up. Makes it really difficult for some to hang it up.

You put your finger on it. So many guys asking "Why does this messed up uneducated young woman who has spent years working in a degrading and dangerous business that is fueled by drugs, alcohol, male sexual urges and behind the scenes, violence and extortion, not make wise, sensible long-term decisions about her life?

Guys, if she had the ability to make sensible decisions about her life, she wouldn't be having sex with you.

We aren't white knights riding into these girls' lives offering them the sweet and happy domestic bliss (or two months of regular custom) they always wanted, we're part of the cynical cycle of abuse that they have gotten themselves into.

Why do we think Thai hookers are any different from the streetwalkers we see back home? Would we expect a crack-addicted girl with a life that went off the rails probably a decade or more ago and is now servicing obese truckers in the backs of their cabs to suddenly realize that one of these truckers is just the partner she needs to give her the few weeks of stability that she has always craved? Of course not, we would know they were damaged goods and use them for our own short-term gratification before walking away. Why does anyone think Thai bargirls are any different?

These girls are not in this business because they are poor and forced into it against their will, they chose this life, disabuse yourself of the notion of the poor fallen woman.

An Indian friend of mine was entertaining some business clients in a goldfish bar. Among the clients was a wide-eyed innocent American guy who said it was so sad that these poor women were forced by poverty into such a degrading life. My friend looked at the girls, all lined up in glamourous dresses, make-up, playing with their handphones sitting on benches for an hour or so before being summoned to provide perfunctory sex with a client. He said to the American "I run a textile factory, these are exactly the sort of women I employ, healthy young women with stamina. I pay a living wage, I run a clean, airconditioned, safe factory, but let's be clear, the work is eight hours of not very strenuous but very tedious work, and I have a huge turnover of staff. I barely have them trained up before they quit out of boredom".

He then challenged the American to speak to all the girls (he knew the manager and could arrange it) tell them they can escape their life of shame and get good honest moral work in the textile factory. He even offered a bonus of $100 for every girl he recruited and saved from this life of turpitude into which they had fallen. The American wisely did not take him up on the offer and conceded that indeed, they were there by free will and choice.

[EihTooms]

Things are still not back to normal, they are dysfunctional. Most bars are desperate for ladies. So you find a lot of agency girls brought in to fill the space. I have seen agency girls in most bars on cowboy and nana. Bacarra in cowboy and Billboard / Butterflies in Nana are probably the only clubs that seem to have enough recruiting power to not use agencies.

Many of these agency girls tend to want just drinks. If they are hotter than your average bar girl then they can do OK by not actually going with customers.

Another trend I have seen of late is that the bars instruct the girls that are barfineable to go to the closest short time hotel rather than back to your condo. This saves a ton of time and gets them back into the bar faster which keeps it fuller with girls.

The number of girls appearing in bars over the last month has been quite high, if this continues over the next 6 months I think things will be more normal.

In the mean time screening girls is so much more important. I used to be happy to buy a girl a drink and then start to screen her. Now I ask her if she is barfineable before I even buy the first drink and politely dismiss them if they say No. I will also ask them if they go to short time hotel or condo. If you do it in a joking / fun way you can ask them anything and they will be ok.

I personally dont have a problem with 3k short term if the lady is hot and has a good attitude but this would only be for back at condo where you can take more time and it is a more relaxed environment. I think 3k in a nearby short term hotel is a different experience and worth closer to 2k short term to me. It is much closer to just going to a soapy or massage place

I agree with your observations and advice on screening girls for their willingness to barfine before buying them a drink. Unless you just want to buy a lot of 220 - 250+ baht Lady Drinks for nothing in terms of actual sex. Yes, that is the direction a lot of Bangkok go-go bars are going in terms of LD prices.

That is the price of LDs in the newly opened Tycoon o-go bar in the old Erotica Bar location halfway between the second level of Nana Plaza (Random Bar) and the third level (Boardwalk).

And as you said many girls are stubbornly holding to 3,000 baht for Short Time now. For me, that is when I introduce better service into the equation rather than continuing to try to get them down from 3,000 to 2,500 or 2,000:

Me: "3,000 for boom boom no condom is ok. ".

Her: "Hmmmm. Ok".

That works most of the time, but not always.

Paying a 500 baht or so "surcharge" over what continued tedious negotiation on price might have saved me in order to settle on BBFSCIP with the new girl of my choice before I even pay the barfine and walk hand in hand out of the bar to head to my room is money well spent in my humble opinion.

[Member #4753]

I hope this doesn't indicate that Crazy House is going into the coyote business.

Things are still not back to normal, they are dysfunctional. Most bars are desperate for ladies. So you find a lot of agency girls brought in to fill the space. I have seen agency girls in most bars on cowboy and nana. Bacarra in cowboy and Billboard / Butterflies in Nana are probably the only clubs that seem to have enough recruiting power to not use agencies.

Many of these agency girls tend to want just drinks. If they are hotter than your average bar girl then they can do OK by not actually going with customers.

Another trend I have seen of late is that the bars instruct the girls that are barfineable to go to the closest short time hotel rather than back to your condo. This saves a ton of time and gets them back into the bar faster which keeps it fuller with girls.

The number of girls appearing in bars over the last month has been quite high, if this continues over the next 6 months I think things will be more normal.

In the mean time screening girls is so much more important. I used to be happy to buy a girl a drink and then start to screen her. Now I ask her if she is barfineable before I even buy the first drink and politely dismiss them if they say No. I will also ask them if they go to short time hotel or condo. If you do it in a joking / fun way you can ask them anything and they will be ok.

I personally dont have a problem with 3k short term if the lady is hot and has a good attitude but this would only be for back at condo where you can take more time and it is a more relaxed environment. I think 3k in a nearby short term hotel is a different experience and worth closer to 2k short term to me. It is much closer to just going to a soapy or massage place

[Carpaccio18]

More and more places are open on Soi Cowboy now. I would guess 75 % are open on the inside and outside. Can be busy on Friday and Saturday but weekdays very slow.

Baccara opens ground and second floors on the busier nights. Crazy House is also busier than the other bars on most nights although I have noticed the better looking girls don't bar fine, they tend to just want lady drinks and of course push for the Tequilar and Coke 350 baht lady drink BS. Some nights the ladies are naked at Crazy, other nights they are in bikinis.

Tilac seems to have tons of ladies out front now. I have't been in this place since pre covid, it was a bit of a mess then with extra pushy staff and tons of coyotes rather than barfinable girls. I will check it out again soon.

The row of bars more or less opposite Tilac are probably still owned by the Arab and are to be avoided as they are all coyotes and will just want to sit and have expensive lady drinks all night and possibly pad your bill on top of that.

All in all most places are open now at Nana and Soi Cowboy. Each week there are more and more girls arriving although customers are still slow outside of Friday and Saturday night. It is slowly getting back to normal.

I hope this doesn't indicate that Crazy House is going into the coyote business. Nude coyotes would be a bad thing for your wallet. It used to be certain that every girl in the bar was barfinable, but of course subject to the girl wanting to go with any specific customer. And yeah, last time I was there the the Tequila and Coke BS was still going on.

Nudity tended to be subject to the mood of the police on any given night.

In Tilac its always been a bit nutty, and a quite a few coyotes. But pre covid they were easy to tell apart since most of the barfinable girls weren't wearing any panties under their miniskirts, and they used to make sure you noticed. They would also be upfront about if you asked. I've had one of the most rowdy threesomes ever in Bangkok with a couple of girls from there. That was fun. Need to go back and check it out.

[Pacito]

Great post. Winning choice, but I go crazy with translation, how do you manage it?

In addition to Thaifriendly, there's also Thaiflirting. Totally free and no waiting around 10 minutes between sending messages.

I also just recently discovered a treasure trove of websites featuring 'sideline' girls. All in Thai, of course, but google will translate for you. The prices are sure a lot better than what most of you numbskulls seem all to eager to pay as well. Check and report back. Go.

https://fiwfans.com/

https://www.sidelinethailand.com/

https://www.dek-sideline.com/

https://www.tiger-clubsideline.com/

https://www.ydclub.website / home-page.

https://sideline2u.com/

https://xn--c3cspb1dibx6e2g0bc5a1fd.com/

https://www.fanfinfin.co/

You're welcome.

[ZenMinded1]

Great topic. I like exploring local places off the beaten path too (preferably on the cheap side). Unfortunately, such places have been in serious decline, most of them closed down or barely hanging on.

Ratchaprarop has the massage places of Pratunam, many of which offer extras, especially along Soi 8. Not my kind of scene. Chao Phraya 2, the huge soapy brothel, was torn down recently, with not a single brick remaining. Bossy "disco" closed many years ago. There used to be a few karaoke places towards Din Daeng interesction, not sure if they're still running.

Rachathewi? Was there ever have anything interesting in the area?

Two local areas still active are south of Rachadamnoen Road near Khok Wua intersection (not far from Khao San Road), as well as Wong Wian 22 traffic circle in Yaowarat area. Very downmarket, but interesting to take a look.

While 10 years ago there were a ton of interesting places to monger, I get a sense that the hooker scene is getting smaller and consolidating around Sukhumvit (and online, but that's a different story). Even some hookers who used to be in local areas are now on Sukhumvit in the evening.

What other places do you know about?

Thanks, interesting few mapmarks to explore. Tried visiting Chinatown some time ago but probably missed the right roundabout.

Ratchatewi has NAKA massage. And even though it's just a HJ place, ladies know their business and it's cheap.

For other places, I'll just give a random example of a recent stopover in Bangkok noi. Took plugging in "erotic massage" and "soapy massage" in plain old google maps to find places in nearly any area of Bangkok. See for example at the intersection of Arun Amarin road and Somdet Phra Pin Klao road. I wonder how I'd search for it in thai, or where these places list for thai customers. That's the kind of place I want to see. Sure, it will probably be downmarket from soi 22/24 but it's about the whole experience not just the service, at least for me.

[Member #4753]

Anyone who can share the latest status of the bars in Soi Cowboy? Going back in a few weeks.

I was in BKK a few months ago, and it was pretty sad. Only a few bars were open, and both Baccara and Crazy House only had the second floor open. Looked completely dead from the outside, so you needed to know they were actually open. Crazy house still had nudity, but not that many girls, and certainly not as attractive as before.

Most other places on Cowboy only had outside bars open. Nana Plaza was pretty much the same, only a few gogo's open on the upper floors.

I kind of like Crazy House, because you see is what you get. Liked Tilac too, used to be weird but fun.

More and more places are open on Soi Cowboy now. I would guess 75 % are open on the inside and outside. Can be busy on Friday and Saturday but weekdays very slow.

Baccara opens ground and second floors on the busier nights. Crazy House is also busier than the other bars on most nights although I have noticed the better looking girls don't bar fine, they tend to just want lady drinks and of course push for the Tequilar and Coke 350 baht lady drink BS. Some nights the ladies are naked at Crazy, other nights they are in bikinis.

Tilac seems to have tons of ladies out front now. I have't been in this place since pre covid, it was a bit of a mess then with extra pushy staff and tons of coyotes rather than barfinable girls. I will check it out again soon.

The row of bars more or less opposite Tilac are probably still owned by the Arab and are to be avoided as they are all coyotes and will just want to sit and have expensive lady drinks all night and possibly pad your bill on top of that.

All in all most places are open now at Nana and Soi Cowboy. Each week there are more and more girls arriving although customers are still slow outside of Friday and Saturday night. It is slowly getting back to normal.

[Dion Cassius]

Anyone who can share the latest status of the bars in Soi Cowboy? Going back in a few weeks.

I was in BKK a few months ago, and it was pretty sad. Only a few bars were open, and both Baccara and Crazy House only had the second floor open. Looked completely dead from the outside, so you needed to know they were actually open. Crazy house still had nudity, but not that many girls, and certainly not as attractive as before.

Most other places on Cowboy only had outside bars open. Nana Plaza was pretty much the same, only a few gogo's open on the upper floors.

I kind of like Crazy House, because you see is what you get. Liked Tilac too, used to be weird but fun.

When I was there at the beginning of July, Crazy House was nearly back to its former self. The action was concentrated on the ground floor (the first floor was empty) but the bar was packed with girls and customers. The rest of Soi Cowboy still looked sad in my opinion.