Bangkok Reports

[Paul Kausch]

No one said that these venues are discouraging patrons from buying a drink (and hanging out) BEFORE picking a girl.

I don't recall you ever suggesting that. However, over the past year from time to time I have read occasional posts claiming the management gave them a hard time for ordering a drink at the bar. Sysygies has obviously made note of these same posts and was clarifying that Annie's does not do this. I was confirming that based on my experiences Syzygies is correct.

[Tits_Lover]

Hey.

Found this on Craig:

http://bangkok.craigslist.co.th/w4m/4444258513.html

Has anyone tried her / She claimed to have full girl but I am not so sure.

[Pro Fesseur]

The price for sex in Oily MPs has been stuck on 1500 for many years, right? It does not go up every year. The girls only get more than this when the customer is generous. In Annies and some others, the girls get less than 1. 5 K (without extra tips).

In 2004 at Soapy Chao Praya II (mainly Thai customers) , I would have to pay the girl a 1000 tip to include sex in the service. Cost of living has almost doubled. It makes sense it would cost 2000 Baht tip for sex now, not including payment for other parts of the service. Can still get ST from bargirls for 2K. True not all girls are willing to go for 2K. The really hot ones have too many customers to accept 2K, I understand that. Likewise the really hot girls at Thai oriented soapies are in a higher price bracket.

Most oily MPs were overpriced ten years ago. It's similar (although to a lesser extent) to what I wrote about the Eden Club.

The overall cost should be taken into consideration for the Chao Praya II soapy. If you have understood what I wrote in my previous post, it's consistent if the overall 2014 cost amounts approximately twice (actually, it should be about 1.8 times) the overall 2004 cost, considering how the local average monthly income has increased in the meanwhile.

About bargirls, the overall quality has dramatically decreased since 2004 (older and/or less attractive girls, greater proportion of mothers, etc.), thus, a 2K ST session is usually overpriced (on average) nowadays, unless the girl is of comparable quality/beauty and provides a comparable prestation as what was being offered for 1000 baht ten years ago in the same (or in a similar) venue. Moreover, you must take into consideration the barfine (and the ladydrinks) too in this case for computing the overall cost, and then, you will certainly understand my point and agree with me about how insanely the prices have increased in tourist-oriented P4P venues. If not, you are a desperate case and it's not worth pursuing this discussion because it would be essentially a waste of time.

[FruitNinja]

Seems to have been this morning. Either Bacarra on fire or right above my favourite hamburger stand. Seems was not too serious.

Not that far in past Rawhide I believe was burnt fairly seriously.

I haven't seen the fire show recently. I wonder has it been discontinued at Rawhide and Suzi W?

Just caught your fire show comment. Funny. I tell you what, I always go upstairs at Bacarra and walking up those stairs I've always thought "man I hope there isn't a fire." That would not pass any code in the west.

[BionicMan]

The price for sex in Oily MPs has been stuck on 1500 for many years, right? It does not go up every year. The girls only get more than this when the customer is generous. In Annies and some others, the girls get less than 1. 5 K (without extra tips).

I don't understand what all the complaints re prices is about. Meanwhile my Thai supermarket bill has grown dramatically in last few years. It shocks me regularly. I would rather shop in the supermarket in Germany where prices are pretty good.

Se like it or not, All prices are increasing, despite the cost reductions operated on salaries and employement.

Even NEP has been recently repainted after some venues change hands. So the new guys spent money in buying and spent money in painting and refurbishing (mainly cosmetic). They want their investment back and being sort of corporates they want it back quick.

Not like an old owner happy to get a good, wealthy and decent living out of it on monthly basis and see the value increasing for the time he plans to sell it as his "pension scheme".

[FruitNinja]

I now hear the entire upstairs part is blackened. No one was present when electrical fault set it off. So may have taken time to be detected.

My girl says it was in the canopy. The girls have to go in tomorrow and clean. She's not too happy about it. Might be some interesting ogling. They should have to clean in bikinis. Ha!

[FruitNinja]

No one said that these venues are discouraging patrons from buying a drink (and hanging out) BEFORE picking a girl.

Correct, they do not discourage you having a drink. I have heard of guys wanting to sit at the bar and drink. That's not cool. They aren't set up to make money on drinks.

FN

[Syzygies]

As another ISG member has already written it, the profit margins are (outrageously) high in the P4P establisments located in popular tourist areas. Moreover, the prices have increased at a much higher pace than how prices have in Thai venues, especially since year 2008.

In Thai venues, the prices have increased and still fluctuate (more or less) following the evolution of the local average monthly income in all kinds of establishments (cheap brothels, karaoke joints and massage parlors of all sorts, etc.). If, for instance, one prestation in a specific establishment amounted about 15% of the Thai average monthly income ten years ago (6754 baht in 2004) , then, it usually still costs about 15% of the current Thai average monthly income nowadays (12163 baht for the most recent data for the last quarter of 2013) and the quality of said prestation has not declined in the meanwhile.

The price for sex in Oily MPs has been stuck on 1500 for many years, right? It does not go up every year. The girls only get more than this when the customer is generous. In Annies and some others, the girls get less than 1. 5 K (without extra tips).

In 2004 at Soapy Chao Praya II (mainly Thai customers) , I would have to pay the girl a 1000 tip to include sex in the service. Cost of living has almost doubled. It makes sense it would cost 2000 Baht tip for sex now, not including payment for other parts of the service. Can still get ST from bargirls for 2K. True not all girls are willing to go for 2K. The really hot ones have too many customers to accept 2K, I understand that. Likewise the really hot girls at Thai oriented soapies are in a higher price bracket.

I don't understand what all the complaints re prices is about. Meanwhile my Thai supermarket bill has grown dramatically in last few years. It shocks me regularly. I would rather shop in the supermarket in Germany where prices are pretty good.

[Western787]

As I speak very, very little Thai, I think of the soapies you refer to as an exotic out of the ordinary adventure for me. One of the appeals to me is the availability of food and drink and no rush nature of these venues.

I routinely have a drink at Annie's and the Dr BJ establishments before picking a girl. I am bemused by the reports that these venues discourage this.

No one said that these venues are discouraging patrons from buying a drink (and hanging out) BEFORE picking a girl.

[Western787]

Of course no goes to a Soapy JUST only to ogle. However I like the girl chosen to be eye-candy to my taste. I don't choose an ugly or dumpy girl with expectation she must be good to make up for lack of looks.

You may not understand. In most Soapies, you can sit with a drink looking for a very very long time, before making a decision. I was never asked to leave. Some Soapies have tables and chairs expressly for sitting drinking. E. G. Amsterdam. Some will give you a menu and allow you to order food. While eating you might suddenly spot the girl of your dreams arrive to the girl seating area. Then quickly you can call her over for a drink, and subsequently decide if you want to take her upstairs for the bath etc. Or offer her something to eat should she wish. La Belle and Utopia are soapies where customers commonly call girls out to sit with them for a drink first.

I have years of experience of sitting outside Chao Praya II fishbowl eating and drinking and eventually selecting my next girl. Could easily have been 2 hours after I came down from going with a previous girl.

Despite what others report, I have sat at the bar for a while with a drink at Annies, as long as it was clear I have the intention to make a booking in due course. However the problem at Annies is that girls do not sit in the fishbowl all the time. They ring the bell to call girls to the viewing area. This doesn't happen at other real Soapies. I rate Annies as a strange cross between a Soapy and an Oily MP, in method of operation, even if there is no oil massage. The key thing about soapies is you have immense time to make your girl choice including waiting to see which girls come out from prior bookings.

At Eden, unfortunately it is a place where you are expected to choose from the lineup almost immediately and there is no chance to speak to the girls and ask anything at all, not even their names. This is one reason, I would not go there again, apart from not being impressed by the girls looks or acting talents. I like Oilies with girls sitting outside. Its possible to have a very brief conversation with them before entering and making a selection. You can at least make a joke or two and judge from reactions who is in a good mood. At least in Oilies you get a little more time to choose while the girls state their names.

You apparently did not read my post very carefully.

As I said : "Soapies like Poseidon, La Belle, The Lord or wherever are just not designed for someone dropping by (even after buying a drink) JUST to watch eye candy. Yes, a quick check of fishbowls you can get away with (Emannuelle not bad for that) but its not like Go Go's where just buying a drink and enjoying the nude women dancing is acceptable on a REPETIVE NIGHT AFTER NIGHT BASIS."

Of course patrons often hang out extended periods at Soapies, but generally that's BEFORE they make a selection, but try going to lets say POSEIDON or La Belle 12 nights in a row, stay 2 hours, buy a drink or two, and never select a girl. You are going to very unpopular with management.

Well you can do that at Rainbow 4 or other Go Go's, and in fact many people are drink-only customers over and over again, perhaps just taking a girl every 10th time or 15th time or whatever, but that's not going to be looked upon very favorably in a Soapy Palace.

That's the point I was making - Go Go's with (far larger crowds, and typically10 times the patrons per night than soapies) are entertainment eye candy venues suitable for looking and not buying, very different than Soapies

[Paul Kausch]

In most Soapies, you can sit with a drink looking for a very very long time, before making a decision. I was never asked to leave.

Despite what others report, I have sat at the bar for a while with a drink at Annies, as long as it was clear I have the intention to make a booking in due course.

As I speak very, very little Thai, I think of the soapies you refer to as an exotic out of the ordinary adventure for me. One of the appeals to me is the availability of food and drink and no rush nature of these venues.

I routinely have a drink at Annie's and the Dr BJ establishments before picking a girl. I am bemused by the reports that these venues discourage this.

[Pro Fesseur]

Probably 20 years ago they were even cheaper and I can't imagine what a bargain it was 30 years ago.

BTW, do you think that the BKK sex industry would have a living without the two-week billionaires? Do you think the expats can sustain the industry? Just asking as this debate pops up every now and then and there is never a real answer but the moaning that the tourists are ruining the prices.

Probably without the tourists the scene would not even be opened to non-Thai and the expats or (the price) hardcore not allowed to even glimpse at the P4P girls.

The Bangkok sex industry is not limited to the establishments that cater mostly to foreigners (and preferably, the most gullible ones). Actually, I wouldn't regret most of these venues (especially the go-go bars) if they were disappearing tomorrow, because they have now become outrageous ripoffs where only people who have more money than sense can get satisfaction without noticing how their owners and service providers are taking them for ignorant fools!

As another ISG member has already written it, the profit margins are (outrageously) high in the P4P establisments located in popular tourist areas. Moreover, the prices have increased at a much higher pace than how prices have in Thai venues, especially since year 2008.

In Thai venues, the prices have increased and still fluctuate (more or less) following the evolution of the local average monthly income in all kinds of establishments (cheap brothels, karaoke joints and massage parlors of all sorts, etc.). If, for instance, one prestation in a specific establishment amounted about 15% of the Thai average monthly income ten years ago (6754 baht in 2004), then, it usually still costs about 15% of the current Thai average monthly income nowadays (12163 baht for the most recent data for the last quarter of 2013) and the quality of said prestation has not declined in the meanwhile.

Source for Thai monthly average income: http://www.bot.or.th/English/Statistics/Standard/SDDS/Pages/sdds.aspx

Alas, that's not the same story when you check the price history in most tourist-oriented P4P establishments, especially in the most recent years. There are a few exceptions, but usually, it's because those places were way overpriced in the past (like the Eden Club in Bangkok, for example) or if the prices have somehow increased reasonably, it's more often than not to the detriment of the overall quality of providers and/or services rendered on average. One notable exception: the BJ bars. Those establishments still offer comparable quality for a relatively fair price that hasn't unreasonably increase in the past ten years (at least).

I don't want to discuss about this topic much longer, because it's usually a total waste of time, and alas, it won't prevent most of the two-week billionaires to still stupidly pay insane and fast increasing amounts of money (compared to the local average income) to get laid in the LOS. Yes, it's still quite affordable for most of us foreigners (although, it might not be the same in the not too distant future at the current price increasing pace), but it does not mean that we should accept being treated and considered as ignorant fools.

In these days and age, every monger can easily learn some basic facts about the local economics and then, can tell when he is getting ripped off. If more people were informed and smart enough, most tourist-oriented P4P places would still offer decent prestations at a fair price, but it had not been the case for quite a long time now.

Oh, and by the way, well-behaved Westerners are welcome in Thai venues (from low to high-end ones). Of course, you have to know the ropes and it might be difficult if you can't speak at least some basic Thai, but they are not forbidden to the white-skinned, long-nosed visitors. I know some places where Arabs and Indians are not welcome though (yeah, it's xenophobic and based on stupid prejudice), but I have yet to find a true "Thai-only" establishment. If they exist, they are far than being numerous compared to the large amounts of Thai venues that accept Western guests (and also other foreigners hopefully).

[Syzygies]

Soapies like Poseidon, La Belle, The Lord or wherever are just not designed for someone dropping by(even after buying a drink) just to watch eye candy. Yes, a quick check of fishbowls you can get away with (Emannuelle not bad for that) .

Of course no goes to a Soapy JUST only to ogle. However I like the girl chosen to be eye-candy to my taste. I don't choose an ugly or dumpy girl with expectation she must be good to make up for lack of looks.

You may not understand. In most Soapies, you can sit with a drink looking for a very very long time, before making a decision. I was never asked to leave. Some Soapies have tables and chairs expressly for sitting drinking. E. G. Amsterdam. Some will give you a menu and allow you to order food. While eating you might suddenly spot the girl of your dreams arrive to the girl seating area. Then quickly you can call her over for a drink, and subsequently decide if you want to take her upstairs for the bath etc. Or offer her something to eat should she wish. La Belle and Utopia are soapies where customers commonly call girls out to sit with them for a drink first.

At Tarawadee, you could sit eating and drinking and never ever select a girl. It just depends on the way the place is set up.

I have years of experience of sitting outside Chao Praya II fishbowl eating and drinking and eventually selecting my next girl. Could easily have been 2 hours after I came down from going with a previous girl.

Despite what others report, I have sat at the bar for a while with a drink at Annies, as long as it was clear I have the intention to make a booking in due course. However the problem at Annies is that girls do not sit in the fishbowl all the time. They ring the bell to call girls to the viewing area. This doesn't happen at other real Soapies. I rate Annies as a strange cross between a Soapy and an Oily MP, in method of operation, even if there is no oil massage. The key thing about soapies is you have immense time to make your girl choice including waiting to see which girls come out from prior bookings.

At Eden, unfortunately it is a place where you are expected to choose from the lineup almost immediately and there is no chance to speak to the girls and ask anything at all, not even their names. This is one reason, I would not go there again, apart from not being impressed by the girls looks or acting talents. I like Oilies with girls sitting outside. Its possible to have a very brief conversation with them before entering and making a selection. You can at least make a joke or two and judge from reactions who is in a good mood. At least in Oilies you get a little more time to choose while the girls state their names.

[Syzygies]

I now hear the entire upstairs part is blackened. No one was present when electrical fault set it off. So may have taken time to be detected.

[Western787]

Years ago at closing time many of the Nana girls would simply move to Nana carpark, the Grace, the Thermae, etc. Then no BF. These days the Thermae seems to close at 2AM. Times have changed. Obviously some girls absolutely have to get money and cannot go home till they do. A street girl other night very late offered me sex for 500. She was average looking so I guess doable for some. Face not great. Had clothes on so I could not see the body properly. LOL.

It's only a small percentage that are making good money.

Http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=th&v=74

True, only a small percent make good money, but for those 5% or whatever number it can be an obscene amount, particularly those with guys mailing them money and those having regulars outside the Go Go's

Beyond that one might ask in regard to the 95%, then why is NPL not loaded with go go girls after 2 pm? Why is NPL overall probably half as busy late night and early AM (even adjusted for lost high season etc) as it was 5 to 10 years back?

I am thinking this is what (relative) affluence does, and Bangkok has been at virtually full employment for a few years now, unlike in prior years. While they don't pay much, (non sex) jobs are plentiful. So not much wory about the having the basics in life to get by. That fear factor is gone. So unless a girl really wants the big bucks, she will just be happy with being part of the 95% low to mid wage sex worker types, so NPL they just skip.