Bangkok Reports

[Goatscrot]

This Bangkok site is a real downer. If things are as bad as you're saying, what the hell are you doing here. Better blank space than negativity. Nothing but whining and bitching. Bargirls are all evil in your eyes. Shove it. I have a great time here.

I'm glad you are enjoying yourself. Why am I here? I've lived here for almost 20 years; it's home. Many of us are quite ensconced here and it would be difficult to leave; jobs, businesses, significant others, etc. But would I choose it now? Probably not and that is not just based on the P4 P scene, which in BKK has become quite meh at best. There are other nations that are far more accommodating to expats, have more benefits for long-term residents, and have a much easier path to citizenship.

[JesseJames]

This Bangkok site is a real downer. If things are as bad as you're saying, what the hell are you doing here. Better blank space than negativity. Nothing but whining and bitching. Bargirls are all evil in your eyes. Shove it. I have a great time here.

[Goatscrot]

Pardon my inexperience, I've only been doing this for 20 years.

We must have a different definition of a GFE. For me, GFE is all about a friendly attitude, the girl being able to give a convincing illusion that she's enjoys being with you to some degree (with money being an incidental incentive). Bit similar to how a good movie gives that willing suspension of disbelief, where a crappy one doesn't. Of course, any GFE girl would normally do DFK (which eager girl doesn't) and BBBJ, but it's NOT about specific physical acts. There are girls who allow DFK and BBBJ (and much more!) but don't qualify as GFE.

Sure, you can pay hookers more money for specific acts (to some extent), but you can't really change their attitude and get GFE, unless you're either gullible or don't really care about the attitude. Some guys just care to do X, why, and Z, and if the girl acts apathetic or even bitches about it, well, too bad. Sometimes those sessions are fine and can be fun, but they sure aren't GFE in my book.

Absolutely. Been at this for a couple of decades myself and if she is not a good actress and is apathetic no matter what her skill set is it is very apparent to me and no GFE or PSE will ensue. Back when they were all looking for sponsors or husbands they were much more convincing.

[Goatscrot]

The underlying mechanism for pricing in any given transaction in a capitalist society is supply and demand, by default. If you're going to make the claim that it's more than supply and demand, then the burden is on you to explain what other forces are at work. The claim that they're paying more for less, is based on a lot of assumptions. For example, not paying the absolute lowest price isn't necessarily indicative of being ripped off. I think we can agree that many girls are open to negotiating their price, and even a Westerner who negotiated a price of, say, $2000ST in a Go Go bar can't be absolutely sure that's the lowest price they could possibly get with a particular girl. If the price is something the seller and buyer both agreed to without coercion, then a fair trade has been made. Also, value is determined by more than price alone. Some people simply value their time on vacation much more than whatever savings they can get by negotiating for what amounts to $30-$40 USD off.

If mainlanders really give them "hell if they don't get good service", and don't reward the girls with a proportionate increase in price, the girls can simply refuse to do business with mainlanders (like how some of them now refuse to deal with Westerners). The fact that you can't "wait til that happens" suggests you're not thinking with reason, but rather emotion.

There is not such thing as a "free market. " It has never existed and never will, no matter what the Libertarians tell you. There is always some sort of coercion and it is never a matter of "choice" as long as a person needs to "work for a living. " As LA Guy stated, plenty of things distort a market and in Asia there is worlds of plenty.

[Goatscrot]

While I mainly agree with your premise, and think that 99% of those type of relationships are disasters, I don't agree that there are no exceptions. I know of some exceptions where the couples are a western men in their 50's or 60's and Thai bar girls in her 20's or early 30's who have been happily married for close to 10 or even more years. They have kids together and have no problems at all. Hell, one of them I kind of regret not marrying myself. Great girl. Unfortunately, she refuses to cheat on her husband because I'd love to have another round with her for old times' sake.

Lots of exception really. I as well have many friends who have been with their ex-bargirl wives and GFs with 10 to 20 years age difference for over a decade and have enjoyed very successful relationships. Some have even raised the gals kid she had with a Thai dude and their own kids together. So yes, it is possible. What is not possible is a long distance relationship. If you don't live here, forget it.

[Goatscrot]

That's when you use your brain and throw the girl out if you feel you're getting scammed. The supply in BKK is higher than demand anyways. Seriously do I need to respond multiple times to my original post when basic common sense could've differentiated the difference between "throwing extra money" and getting ripped off, I thought using the upper brain when dealing with such things was a must.

Your logic just answered you. "They are demanding, loud, and will present quite a shock to the gals. They will long for the days of Western mongers. ". Compare exactly your definitions of a mainland monger vs a western monger and a current Asian monger (sing / Japanese / Korean) to the western monger. You'll see exactly why a girl prefers an Asian monger to a western one. These are the days of the Asian monger who definitely believes that they are not overpaying and that they're not getting scammed, so they will continue to dictate the market.

Actually I do throw them out. And in regards to your final paragraph, it's all about the money. The reports I hear from the gals is that the Korean guys are gruff, non-communicative, in some instances quite rough, and in almost all instances there is no possibility of a long term relationship with them, which is not how you would describe most Western mongers who are looking for a GFE or a potential GF and wife. It's all about the fact that they pay more and the fact that there are fewer and fewer Western mongers coming to Thailand.

[Stykler]

I know many men will disagree with what I have written and that's fine.

I can't see why! This report should be compulsory reading for ANY man going to Thailand for the first time. Well done Undercoverh.

[Smoothy]

There are no exceptions.

While I mainly agree with your premise, and think that 99% of those type of relationships are disasters, I don't agree that there are no exceptions. I know of some exceptions where the couples are a western men in their 50's or 60's and Thai bar girls in her 20's or early 30's who have been happily married for close to 10 or even more years. They have kids together and have no problems at all. Hell, one of them I kind of regret not marrying myself. Great girl. Unfortunately, she refuses to cheat on her husband because I'd love to have another round with her for old times' sake.

[LA Guy 5]

The underlying mechanism for pricing in any given transaction in a capitalist society is supply and demand, by default. If you're going to make the claim that it's more than supply and demand, then the burden is on you to explain what other forces are at work. The claim that they're paying more for less, is based on a lot of assumptions. For example, not paying the absolute lowest price isn't necessarily indicative of being ripped off. I think we can agree that many girls are open to negotiating their price, and even a Westerner who negotiated a price of, say, $2000ST in a Go Go bar can't be absolutely sure that's the lowest price they could possibly get with a particular girl. If the price is something the seller and buyer both agreed to without coercion, then a fair trade has been made. Also, value is determined by more than price alone. Some people simply value their time on vacation much more than whatever savings they can get by negotiating for what amounts to $30-$40 USD off.

If mainlanders really give them "hell if they don't get good service", and don't reward the girls with a proportionate increase in price, the girls can simply refuse to do business with mainlanders (like how some of them now refuse to deal with Westerners). The fact that you can't "wait til that happens" suggests you're not thinking with reason, but rather emotion.

I lost you on your first sentence, as I am not a believer in religions, including that which worships pure unfettered capitalism as an all-pervasive god. Actually, there are a multitude of things that can distort capitalistic markets and it is just as reasonable, actually more so, for someone to ask you to justify the claim pussy is sold in a pure unfettered capitalistic market as it is for you to ask someone to prove "other forces" (other than pure unfettered capitalism) explains the price of pussy in Thailand or elsewhere. Shall we start with police corruption and the effect that has on pricing; monopoly power held by those who control many of the establishments (along with likely collusion in price setting), and so forth.

If you want to experience pure capitalism, find a far away village somewhere and buy some vegetables at an outdoor market. There is at least some chance your transaction will reflect an unfettered free market, although even there maybe not.

[Undercoverh]

After working in Thailand for more than 20 years, I have been told hundreds of stories, and known many men who have fallen in love with Thai bar girls and lost their money, respect, and sometimes even their life.

Especially for the newbies coming to Thailand, young man or old man, the same rules apply. But when you're in your 40's 50's or 60's and you come from your home country where you may not get noticed and oftentimes you are lonely, coming to Thailand and having tons of young bar girls fall all over you will change how you think about reality. I see many old men happily walking down the street with their 20 something year old bar girl. Have fun, but don't fall in love with these girls. There are no exceptions. I've talked to many men here who said that there bar girl is different than the other bar girls. And they happily give her money and then when they leave send her a monthly allowance, I often time see the same girls walking down the street with other older men while receiving her monthly allowance from her old boyfriend that has returned to his home country.

Come to Thailand have fun enjoy the weather and the women. But think of it as Disneyland for adults. Once you walk out of the gate the fantasy is over. The same with Thailand. Have fun in Thailand, but once you leave, the Fantasy of young women wanting you is over.

Let's be honest. Young girls in Thailand do not grow up thinking that their dream is to have a man in his 50s or 60s. Anyone assumes this is ridiculous and being unrealistic. Young Thai girls, just like any other young girls in the world, dream about having true love with a boyfriend her age. In her bedroom she will have pictures of young rock stars on her wall. So why then do we see so many young girls with old men in Thailand. Simply, it's for the money. There is no other reason.

In Thailand, there are tons of beautiful young girls who are dirt poor. I've seen them as I've traveled throughout Thailand. These girls are uneducated poor but pretty! They have white or brown skin. Long black hair and a sexy shape. But many of them are as poor as dirt and dumb as a doornail. These girls will be with old men because of money. They can make more money from one guy than they can make in one year working at a convenience store like Family Mart in Thailand. The average salary at a Family Mart in the countryside is about $8 a day.

And remember, the Thai girls see you as rich. They figure if you can get on an airplane and fly from your country to Thailand, you must have money. And they want some of it! Do not fall for the stories that their family is sick, their mother needs help, their family needs a new pig to survive on, the farming season has been tough and there's no money to send her sister to school. Don't fall for the silly excuses that you'll hear from the Thai girls to get money out of you.

And if you should be so unlucky to marry a Thai BARgirl, a Thai bar girl that is, then you will deserve all the pain and heartache that you will receive. If you are naive enough to buy Thai girls house in the countryside you will quickly see how these girls would turn on you. Remember, you cannot own land in Thailand. Nor can you own the house on the land. You can own a condo in Thailand but you cannot own land. I've seen many foreigners in the Countryside buy houses and land and put it in the name of their wife or girlfriend only later to lose everything when the girls sells.

I know many men will disagree with what I have written and that's fine. But there will be a few men who read this and their eyes will be open and will save them some heartache. It's for them I write these words.

[EihTooms]

Pardon my inexperience, I've only been doing this for 20 years.

We must have a different definition of a GFE. For me, GFE is all about a friendly attitude, the girl being able to give a convincing illusion that she's enjoys being with you to some degree (with money being an incidental incentive). Bit similar to how a good movie gives that willing suspension of disbelief, where a crappy one doesn't. Of course, any GFE girl would normally do DFK (which eager girl doesn't) and BBBJ, but it's NOT about specific physical acts. There are girls who allow DFK and BBBJ (and much more!) but don't qualify as GFE.

Sure, you can pay hookers more money for specific acts (to some extent), but you can't really change their attitude and get GFE, unless you're either gullible or don't really care about the attitude. Some guys just care to do X, why, and Z, and if the girl acts apathetic or even bitches about it, well, too bad. Sometimes those sessions are fine and can be fun, but they sure aren't GFE in my book.

I find that when it comes to me paying a bit more in order to get what I consider and have referred to as a "Real GFE", i.e. at least a BBBJ+CIM, possibly with a Swallow finish and/or BBFS, the kind of nicer and friendlier attitude you mention tends to follow anyway. In fact, one reason I make those acts my goal with or without an extra money offer is to better ensure a warmer, more sensual and erotic experience overall, not just to get my uncovered dick to finish in one of two holes, so to speak.

I'm not sure I have ever gotten an agreement on those conditions for a bit more money and then had to suffer through a session of apathy and bitching. My sense is the very act of engaging in something much more intimate than the basics, as sexually intimate as two people can get really, triggers a response and behavior in the girl that closely resembles real love-making between two people who genuinely like each other, even if she had no feeling in that regard to start with. Quite literally, a barrier is lifted. Interesting thing about human beings; often, behavior precipitates attitude and not the other way around.

[Klassic]

Visited all the main BJ shops at least three times each to cross check. Lollypop, wood (dr BJ earlier) Casalong, lolittas, soms heaven and BJ bars like after school, jungle jims, fanny ets. Quality just sucks. I will better do hand jobs myself rather than putting my cock in these ugliest faces and mouths. LOL.

You could try 7 heaven on Soi 33 for better looking faces. Damage 1300 for BJ, YMMV on service though.

[EihTooms]

I sat for almost an hour last evening.

Had a sandwich and a beer. Could find only aged ugly ladies.

Sadly I could not find many good looking gals around soi streets. If its beautiful it must be lady boy. It was not the case few years ago when I could easily pick good looking young gals even from Nana parking in cheap price. Lastly am too surprised to see many very good looking western guys romancing the ugliest, out of shape, ladies who can easily find roles in horror movies. I wished I could tell those guys common buddy see your personality and see the lady you are lip kissing with.

Visited many clubs like insanity, route 36 , glow, sing sing, onyx, sugar, level. Could not see stunners. Used to the shanghai clubs where one can see loads of stunners. Pickup joints like Manhattan and Kama in Guangzhou are way better in quality. Even Jakarta I found way better in term of quality and price.

Look like my last visit to Thailand. Many more countries to explore. Will try to post few FRs in Bangkok forum soon. Going Pattaya tomorrow for few days.

Cheers.

This is still New Year's week, which means many if not practically all of the more financially successful P4P girls (meaning better looking and/or better at their job) are out of town visiting their families or staying home to be with their families, except for those who don't have much of a family. That would be especially true of Freelancers who, by their choice of "venue" suggest they probably have husbands, serious boyfriends, kids and such nearby who are not expecting them to be busy during this particular time with whatever cover job they have told them they are doing instead of what they are really doing.

[Klassic]

Pardon my inexperience, I've only been doing this for 20 years.

We must have a different definition of a GFE. For me, GFE is all about a friendly attitude, the girl being able to give a convincing illusion that she's enjoys being with you to some degree (with money being an incidental incentive). Bit similar to how a good movie gives that willing suspension of disbelief, where a crappy one doesn't. Of course, any GFE girl would normally do DFK (which eager girl doesn't) and BBBJ, but it's NOT about specific physical acts. There are girls who allow DFK and BBBJ (and much more!) but don't qualify as GFE.

Sure, you can pay hookers more money for specific acts (to some extent), but you can't really change their attitude and get GFE, unless you're either gullible or don't really care about the attitude. Some guys just care to do X, why, and Z, and if the girl acts apathetic or even bitches about it, well, too bad. Sometimes those sessions are fine and can be fun, but they sure aren't GFE in my book.

Pardon me but its rude to half read a sentence and cut out the rest as it showcases poor comprehension skills. "But you can't really change their attitude and get GFE, unless you're either gullible or don't really care about the attitude. Some guys just care to do X, why, and Z, and if the girl acts apathetic or even bitches about it, well, too bad. Sometimes those sessions are fine and can be fun, but they sure aren't GFE in my book." Again read the half sentence you cut out and my first statement of my last post.

[JayFung]

It's not just a matter of supply and demand. The P4 P industry in Thailand has always seemed to operate outside of what we think of as a true free market. Of course the same can be said of many aspects of the economy here. But yes, if they are paying more for less; they are being ripped off and changing the market for the worst. They are being taken advantage of. And if you have ever been into the CH or numerous GoGos in Pattaya you will see the Thai gals surrounding their victims and milking them for drinks like it is not tomorrow. Can't wait till the mainlanders come. They are demanding and will give 'em hell if they don't get good service.

The underlying mechanism for pricing in any given transaction in a capitalist society is supply and demand, by default. If you're going to make the claim that it's more than supply and demand, then the burden is on you to explain what other forces are at work. The claim that they're paying more for less, is based on a lot of assumptions. For example, not paying the absolute lowest price isn't necessarily indicative of being ripped off. I think we can agree that many girls are open to negotiating their price, and even a Westerner who negotiated a price of, say, $2000ST in a Go Go bar can't be absolutely sure that's the lowest price they could possibly get with a particular girl. If the price is something the seller and buyer both agreed to without coercion, then a fair trade has been made. Also, value is determined by more than price alone. Some people simply value their time on vacation much more than whatever savings they can get by negotiating for what amounts to $30-$40 USD off.

If mainlanders really give them "hell if they don't get good service", and don't reward the girls with a proportionate increase in price, the girls can simply refuse to do business with mainlanders (like how some of them now refuse to deal with Westerners). The fact that you can't "wait til that happens" suggests you're not thinking with reason, but rather emotion.