Bangkok Reports

[Ghatotkach]

No, I've been in Asia for a decade and had the attitude described with all my girls, the vast majority of them non-pros. It is simply not true in my experience that you have to spend a lot on a girl (Asian or not) to keep her interested. Unless maybe one doesn't know how to treat a girl, or one is 70 years old and 100 pounds overweight and has to compensate for that.

I understand that a lot of readers on this board are older and maybe not interested in spending time and emotional investment in a girl, and prefer to just buy sexual services. Nothing wrong with that, that's what this board is for, to purchase sexual services from pros. But it doesn't mean it's impossible to have a girl (pro or not) like you for you, and want you for you. It doesn't mean it's accurate to assume that all women (including non-pros) are after money. Nothing could be further from the truth IMHO.

Women are just human beings and they want someone fun and someone who cares. This is more important to them than money in most cases (with the exceptions of hardened pros and gold-diggers, a very small minority of all women). It is therefore very possible to have a girl like you and stay with you even while spending very little money. Even if she has other guys throwing more money at her than you ever will.

Opposing views are always welcome but the above has been my experience, and verified over and over again for a pretty long time by now.

Chill Out has made a very valid observation. I have been visiting Thailand for a long many years now. Like most of us, I started with a greater inclination towards the P4P girls. You meet all kinds of women and some experiences are good and others forgettable. Over the years, I realized that it does work out better if one goes with the same girl. It adds a level of comfort and one does get better service.

Of late, however, I have made friends with some ladies who are not part of the regular P4P circles. They run their own businesses or have regular jobs. For the past couple of years, I have been taking a lady who runs her own business out to various places for a holiday. It works fine: she enjoys a break as much as I do. The payout is not much and she does not expect any extras. She takes very good care of me in all respects and I get to learn more about the country and its people through her.

Perhaps looking beyond the P4P circles has some advantages!

[The Pro]

I 100% agree! Usually non working girls end up much more than working girl. Not to mentioned if feeling is involve at the end.

Best is to take different girls every night and no string attached.

I like this phrase" you pay them to go away after the sex"

Cheers,

MD

Its the concept that those who do not monger, or monger very little cannot comprehend.

I pay the girl to go away.

By taking the money and departing she has no claim to call me unless I want to call her, she has no claim to speak to me next time she see's me unless I want to speak to her. She has provided a service, I have paid and now she goes away.

They say you pay for sex. No. Wrong. You pay the girl to go away and leave you able to enjoy hot sex with absolutely no emotional or any other kind of attachment before or after the event.

[The Pro]

It depends on the quality of the girl.

In BKK, if you want the cream of the crop non-pro chicks (vast majority aren't interested in foreigners) , it would cost more. If you want average girls, then yes it would be cheaper than playing the pro market.

I have a list of girls I can bang anytime and for pretty much free, with just the cost of a meal and movie BUT they are either not very pretty or a bit overweight.

Thailand has a whole hoard of unattractive women who cannot get fucked by Thais who are desperate to land a farang and get some sex as they know some older farang men will compromise on beauty for cheap sex.

Thats the trouble with these forums, people compare apples to pears and melons to oranges and why there will always be misunderstanding and disagreement.

If you want a pretty little Thai girl on your arm, for dinner, movies, shopping and sex its going to cost you a whole lot more money than simply banging a working girl. And a different one each night if you want.

There was a time recently when I was in a bar and 10 of the girls I had banged in the past, and I left with another new one. Thats the pleasure of P4P.

[Chill Out]

With a pro, not with a "normal girl".

No, I've been in Asia for a decade and had the attitude described with all my girls, the vast majority of them non-pros. It is simply not true in my experience that you have to spend a lot on a girl (Asian or not) to keep her interested. Unless maybe one doesn't know how to treat a girl, or one is 70 years old and 100 pounds overweight and has to compensate for that.

I understand that a lot of readers on this board are older and maybe not interested in spending time and emotional investment in a girl, and prefer to just buy sexual services. Nothing wrong with that, that's what this board is for, to purchase sexual services from pros. But it doesn't mean it's impossible to have a girl (pro or not) like you for you, and want you for you. It doesn't mean it's accurate to assume that all women (including non-pros) are after money. Nothing could be further from the truth IMHO.

Women are just human beings and they want someone fun and someone who cares. This is more important to them than money in most cases (with the exceptions of hardened pros and gold-diggers, a very small minority of all women). It is therefore very possible to have a girl like you and stay with you even while spending very little money. Even if she has other guys throwing more money at her than you ever will.

Opposing views are always welcome but the above has been my experience, and verified over and over again for a pretty long time by now.

[Goyave]

That market has different standards...

No. There is only one standard for the real value of Thai women on the local market. But many foreigners are taken advantage of in the tourist-oriented zoos and end up paying inflated prices for substandard quality. Not only on the P4P market, by the way...

[Goyave]

The debate was started whether a non-pro woman is more expensive than P4P. I can only speak for myself when I say that when the debate was started I was not aware that we were talking about high society non-pros versus whatever type of pro [...]

Again, I have been coming to Thailand for 5 years and have been living here 1 year. I am not the settling down type, but of 3 non-pros who I have been involved with consistently over the last 4 years (one is in real estate, one is a school teacher, and one is a government worker) they have never once asked me for any money or any gifts, unless it was something small for their birthday. And even then they could care less what the present was. Sure they have told me many times that they want to marry me and I have told them just as many times that I don't want to get married. But I have never had any of them or any other non-pro ask me for money or gifts. I even have a friend who I have known for the same 4 years that wants me to make a baby with her, yet does not want me to support the baby, raise the baby or even see the baby thereafter...

You probably haven't stayed with a “normal woman” long enough… or you only go out with local women who don't have much hope anymore in upgrading their own status on the social ladder (for instance, mature divorcees with children).

In Thailand, it's very important for a woman to get married to someone (or having a regular boyfriend) of at least the same status, but usually of a better one, than herself. Even with Thai men, a woman will try to gain something in the relationship (wealth and/or a better position in the society being the most common goals). Why would a Thai woman have a relationship with a foreigner if she does not gain anything, especially if the foreigner is much older, not very attractive, does not speak her language, does not share the same values nor the same interests in life, doesn't know much about her culture (which is, you must admit it, quite often the case here)?

In most cases, the main appeal of a foreigner is his (relative) wealth compared to those of the local guys (the men that this specific “normal woman” could get married to, and if a woman can espouse a rich Thai man, she usually won't be available to the average foreigners). Sooner or later, a “normal woman” who is in a relationship with a foreigner will naturally obtain what she wants (or the relationship does not last long): a better status in life and/or some material possessions, in accordance to her value on the local market (at least, and better if she can).

It could be more or less costly to entertain a “normal woman” depending on the length of the relationship and of the woman's status in the Thai society, for instance, but it's also more or less expensive to have sex with a P4P equivalent (in looks, as it's mainly this criteria that is really important on the P4P market) of the “normal woman” with whom you have a relationship.

Look at the “normal women” that most foreigners go out with. They are usually far than being placed very high on the Thai social ladder (or they are mature divorcees with children, for instance), which means that they have very little value on the local market (they know it, and are therefore low-maintenance women). So, their P4P counterparts are not the most expensive escort girls, but rather the cheap freelancers or brothel-based sex workers. Those are the girls that a long-term resident can usually fuck for as low as 300 or 500 baht (you will find them for instance in Chinatown in Bangkok, on Beach Road in Pattaya, among the streetwalkers or in a local brothel in probably every province, etc.) or even cheaper.

By the way, the discussion was not only about the cost of a relationship with a “hi-so” girl. What was said is that if you want to fuck young and attractive (by local standards) girls, it's often more costly with (allegedly) “non-pro” than with prostitutes, especially for the average foreigner who is often much older, less attractive (etc.) than the girls that he wants to have sex with. It's of course probably less true if you are going out with older and less attractive women (again, according to the local standards).

But even with those older and less attractive women, the more you stay with them, the less frequently you will fuck them, and the more you will have to spend money and time on various things that you would have not paid or done with prostitutes. For many people, it's not that easy to refuse to help someone with whom you are in a long-term relationship.

Many people end up marrying and/or having children with their long-term local girlfriend (and that's not unusual for them to then pay for some land, a car, a house, help her to start a business, etc.). Thai women can be very patient and they are not as stupid as some foreigners might think (they often are more clever than the average Joe when dealing with feelings and are great relationship strategists). By the way, many "normal girls", even nowadays, wouldn't have sex before marriage in Thailand (and the groom must pay the wedding dowry before being granted the bride's sexual favors).

Oh, and call me a cynic, but I would not believe a woman who asks me to make her a baby and who says that I won't have to take care of the child later… Just do it, and tell us in twenty years how costly was the experience!

[Syzygies]

To me asking for money or gifts is skating in P4P territory. And the several Thais that I have had this talk with have said the same.

This seems like rubbish to me to lump asking for money and asking for gifts in the same basket.

Girls in general like gifts, pro or not, Thai or Farang, rich or poor, and if they know you well are likely to either hint or suggest,"if you love me, I would really like.". Gifts are very normal for New Year, Birthdays, St Valentines day, and even on no special occasion.

Continuous requests, especially for gold, is another matter altogether, and is definitely pro behaviour.

I have also experienced requests to borrow money from non-Pro Thais in desperate situations. The big problem is that its unlikely to be repaid in full. Thais are very unreliable at paying back loans, so you must assume that you are being asked for a donation, mostly.

Cynics like me don't see massive differences between pros and girls marrying for money. Normally a pro would be quite willing to retire and marry for money.

It is nice though, when a pro wants to spend her free time with you and fuck for free, just because she really needs someone to care and she really likes the sex.

[Syzygies]

Every pro in the whole fucking world fucks some guys for free. It's human nature. It's nothing special really!

Agreed, have got a few from a few, but you can't assume with pros. You want to be told explicitly that you don't have to pay anything, so there are no misunderstandings, unless you have a standing arrangement that all sex is free.

I experienced one, where still was expected to pay her at her work place, due to using up her earning hours, but those outside of her working hours were free. Gets a bit confusing.

In the end it averaged out to be a discount, sort of. Even when you get freebies, you still end up spending money on the girl one way or another.

[Amjeck]

That's not unusual to get freebies with pros, especially when you still are a young and attractive guy.

Every pro in the whole fucking world fucks some guys for free. It's human nature. It's nothing special really!

[Amjeck]

I've dated several rich girls (not in Thailand though, but in Asia and elsewhere) and money was not an issue at all. One shouldn't confuse the gold-diggers who walk around Siam Paragon with the real Hi-so girls. If you have been Hi-so from birth, you couldn't care less about being taken to brunch at the Sukohtai. You've been there a thousand times before. Yes, for marriage they might want a rich or highly accomplished guy due to family expectations, for dating or fun though, in my experience money matters very little to them. They can buy all the fun they want with daddy's credit card.

You have no experience dating rich Thai girls, so how do you know what rich Thai girls want?

[Pro Fesseur]

One shouldn't confuse the gold-diggers who walk around Siam Paragon with the real Hi-so girls...

The real Hi-So girls don't go out with the average foreigner in Thailand. Very few foreigners have the money and the connections to meet a real Hi-So girl in Asia.

[Pro Fesseur]

In fact I've been fucking with a pro for free for weeks now (and going dutch on everything we do outside the bedroom).

With a pro, not with a "normal girl". That's not unusual to get freebies with pros, especially when you still are a young and attractive guy. They easily earn much more money than the average "normal girl" and because they usually are undereducated and come from a poor family, the only way for them to earn some respect (or face) in this country is to flash their cash. It is also sometimes an investment for the future and she's probably hoping that you will marry her someday.

[Chill Out]

.when the debate was started I was not aware that we were talking about high society non-pros versus whatever type of pro.

That's not what we were talking about at the beginning; we were talking about pros vs non-pros in general.

If a woman already comes from money why the hell would she need money and gifts from you? It seems to reason that whatever she wanted she could buy for herself or her family would provide for her.

I would agree. I've dated several rich girls (not in Thailand though, but in Asia and elsewhere) and money was not an issue at all. One shouldn't confuse the gold-diggers who walk around Siam Paragon with the real Hi-so girls. If you have been Hi-so from birth, you couldn't care less about being taken to brunch at the Sukohtai. You've been there a thousand times before. Yes, for marriage they might want a rich or highly accomplished guy due to family expectations, for dating or fun though, in my experience money matters very little to them. They can buy all the fun they want with daddy's credit card.

[Mr Enternational]

Why continue this in the expat thread? Do you assume non-expats can't get non-pros? Wrong assumption.

Not at all, but the point is not to junk up the thread for regular mongers who are looking for P4P in BKK. But here is a copy of what I put in that thread.

The debate was started whether a non-pro woman is more expensive than P4P. I can only speak for myself when I say that when the debate was started I was not aware that we were talking about high society non-pros versus whatever type of pro. I never dated rich women in my home country so why would I normally do it in Thailand. Sure we can agree that dating Angelina Jolie or Naomi Campbell we would spend more money than LT with #43 at Rainbow Bar. But how many farang in Thailand are dating or have dated a woman as such here or back home? When I entered into the debate I understood by "non-pro" we were talking about everyday office workers, nurses, schoolteachers, etc. I did not know the debate was to include college students who are driving their father's Rolls Royce or 25 year old corporate executives who are making millions of baht per year.

I am from an average middle class family and have noticed that for the most part people around the world date within their own socioeconomic group. I still hold fast to my observation, experience and hypothesis that a non-pro Thai woman is not as expensive as P4P. If a woman already comes from money why the hell would she need money and gifts from you? It seems to reason that whatever she wanted she could buy for herself or her family would provide for her.

Again, I have been coming to Thailand for 5 years and have been living here 1 year. I am not the settling down type, but of 3 non-pros who I have been involved with consistently over the last 4 years (one is in real estate, one is a school teacher, and one is a government worker) they have never once asked me for any money or any gifts, unless it was something small for their birthday. And even then they could care less what the present was. Sure they have told me many times that they want to marry me and I have told them just as many times that I don't want to get married. But I have never had any of them or any other non-pro ask me for money or gifts. I even have a friend who I have known for the same 4 years that wants me to make a baby with her, yet does not want me to support the baby, raise the baby or even see the baby thereafter. The only thing a real non-pro has ever asked of me was my time.

To me asking for money or gifts is skating in P4P territory. And the several Thais that I have had this talk with have said the same. Maybe the guy starts off trying to play Mr. Big Money and is forced to stay the course. Maybe the girl is just a bi*tch (read working girl) to begin with. If you run out of money and the woman is still with you then that is a non-pro. But if you run out of money or stop spending money and likewise went your Thai girl then she was never non-pro to begin with. She was with your money, not with you.

[Chill Out]

As an expat you can do P4P once a week and that's enough. Which isn't so expensive. Normal girls are more expensive because you end up spending more time with them.

But then you have to compare that price-wise with meeting your normal girlfriend once a week as well, which isn't very usual. The average guy sleeps with his girl more than once a week.

This only means that guys need to stop being suckers and falling for someone who only wants them for their money or material possessions.

+1.

How long have you stayed in Thailand with the same "normal" girlfriend on a daily basis? I'm guessing that it has not been very long yet.

The question wasn't for me but I'll comment anyway

My experience in Thailand is limited but I've lived in China for a long time, where a lot of people will also tell you it's impossible to keep a girl for a long time without spending money on her, gifts, fancy dinners etc. It hasn't been my experience there at all. Not at all.

So far in Thailand I can't say that I've needed to spend much to keep my non-pros happy. In fact I've been fucking with a pro for free for weeks now (and going dutch on everything we do outside the bedroom). It all depends on what you bring to the table. I love spending my time with women and making them happy . Not by buying them gifts but by giving them a good time. They are happy with me, and thus don't feel like they need to be paid for it.

Some guys like PinkPearl commented below, can't stand being with girls except for sex, which I would imagine doesn't make them the best companion (and I don't mean this as a personal attack, PinkPearl. To each his own. I'm sure you are better than me at a poker table.). In that case creating a connection is harder and money might be needed to keep a girl interested for a long time.

There seem to be a lot of guys who can't give a girl a good time to save their lives, and who comment on how it's impossible to keep a girl without paying her. Well duh.