Bangkok Reports

[Goatscrot]

I don't agree with that. Right now, guys still have not returned after the end of Ramadan so customers are sparse in Jakarta. The free lance girls have dropped their prices from their normal asking. They also drop it during Ramadan right before they go home because they absolutely must have some money, they can't afford to go home alone any night unless there is no interest. Their families are quite demanding for cash at that time of year and there are few tourists or even expats in town due to Ramadan.

They do have "loss of face" issues when they get less money than the average. But I've been around long enough that they know I will never tell any girl how much I gave a different girl. If you are negotiating with a girl and tell her "I only gave that girl half of what you are asking!" You just screwed yourself because you just raised the price for every girl you meet from then on since none of them will trust you to keep your mouth shut about money.

Thais are very different than Indonesians.

[PVMonger]

Yes, same goes for many things here in LOS.

Very similar here in Mexico as well.

My suspicion is that the same "philosophy" exists in many developing countries and it is 180 degrees different from the way a "business" is run in, say, the US.

In a developing country, if you lack customers you raise prices to make more money from the same customer base. In the US, if you lack customers, you have a "sale" to get more customers so you can make more money.

[Smoothy]

She won't back off a price even if she is hungry.

I don't agree with that. Right now, guys still have not returned after the end of Ramadan so customers are sparse in Jakarta. The free lance girls have dropped their prices from their normal asking. They also drop it during Ramadan right before they go home because they absolutely must have some money, they can't afford to go home alone any night unless there is no interest. Their families are quite demanding for cash at that time of year and there are few tourists or even expats in town due to Ramadan.

They do have "loss of face" issues when they get less money than the average. But I've been around long enough that they know I will never tell any girl how much I gave a different girl. If you are negotiating with a girl and tell her "I only gave that girl half of what you are asking!" You just screwed yourself because you just raised the price for every girl you meet from then on since none of them will trust you to keep your mouth shut about money.

[Goatscrot]

I am really bemused by guys who think the P4P industry follows the free market system. How can an industry in a country where P4P prices increase during low season or during a period when there are less clients be a free market? That is the opposite of a free market if ever there was one. Its against the laws of supply and demand.

It disproves the law of supply and demand. It isn't a law, it's an idea. An idea that is often abused. And in Thailand it is just an idea sometimes. Normally not. Even in the shopping malls. I'm sure most of you know that the major dept stores in Thailand hold very little merchandise. They rent space to the brand's distributor, so that X brand at Central and X brand at Emporium is actually the same folks. That's why there is no real price competition and why you will see the same prices all over town. There has been a bit of improvement with some outlets opening up.

[Goatscrot]

Another reason why Jakarta is so much better than Thailand on so many levels. Imagine trying to pay a Thai FL 1000 baht for ST when you previously paid her 1500 baht?

Thai train of thought is if a girl only gets 1 customer per night during low season when she gets 2 customers per night during high season she doubles her price during low season so she can make the same amount of money.

Yes, same goes for many things here in LOS.

[Goatscrot]

You don't think free lancer pickups at local night spots is a negotiable free market price? In Jakarta, the price varies each night depending on supply and demand. If there are lots of guys there that night, the price is higher than the nights where there are very few guys. It also depends how many girls are there and how good looking they are. The hottest girls do charge more because they know they are higher demand. I can get a plain jane in the same bar for much cheaper. I have given the exact same girl different amounts on different nights depending on supply and demand that night. The price also drops drastically right around closing time if the girl hasn't found anyone to take her yet. Sounds like a free market to me.

No I don't. In FL joints it is driven by what the gal thinks she is worth or deserves and a lot by peer pressure from her friends. She won't back off a price even if she is hungry. Jakarta gals are probably wise enough to come off those prices when needed. BKK, fat chance.

[Syzygies]

I am really bemused by guys who think the P4P industry follows the free market system. How can an industry in a country where P4P prices increase during low season or during a period when there are less clients be a free market? That is the opposite of a free market if ever there was one. Its against the laws of supply and demand.

Well for a start you can't expect all girls to be the same price. They will go for what they can get, and depending on how difficult is the customer too. Don't expect them to drop the price when they know they can get more. Some girls on Soi 4 though, have to go for 1 K because no one will pay more. They just don't have the looks or performance.

Girls working in a fixed price MP will necessarily be mostly of a lower standard of looks because they could get more money elsewhere. However the girls still vary a lot. In Dozo, 80% of the girls just did not want to do me at all. Japanese / Korean / Chinese only. Dozo did not offer me a surcharge price. The 3 girls on offer were not sexy enough for my taste.

Low season, or economic crash, sees girls getting less customers, so they need to make more per customer than before. Somewhat reverse logic.

Sometimes girls are forced to leave a bar, because they can't compete with the other girls, and probably failed to offer customers super bargains. If they offered me a bargain, I would not take it. I want the pretty girls, even if not cheapest.

[Turgid]

I am really bemused by guys who think the P4P industry follows the free market system. How can an industry in a country where P4P prices increase during low season or during a period when there are less clients be a free market? That is the opposite of a free market if ever there was one. Its against the laws of supply and demand.

[Banana Boi]

I have given the exact same girl different amounts on different nights depending on supply and demand that night. The price also drops drastically right around closing time if the girl hasn't found anyone to take her yet. Sounds like a free market to me.

Another reason why Jakarta is so much better than Thailand on so many levels. Imagine trying to pay a Thai FL 1000 baht for ST when you previously paid her 1500 baht?

Thai train of thought is if a girl only gets 1 customer per night during low season when she gets 2 customers per night during high season she doubles her price during low season so she can make the same amount of money.

[Franciscass]

I have to side with the argument that supply and demand does not apply in the go go bar scene in the same way it operates in mainstream commerce where it holds true for commonly traded commodities but to a lesser extent for services when elasticity on either side restricts equivalency.

In my opinion prices in most go go's are by and large set by the owner / operators and do not fluctuate with changes in either demand or supple. Are prices cheaper in July when compared to December?

Of course.

It is true individual girls will occasionally depending on circumstances discreetly and I emphasis discreetly negotiate and leave with you for less than the prescribed fee but this does not come close to making it a free market.

[Smoothy]

Natty, I think Turgid and I are stating that there is no such thing as a free market, anywhere or at anytime.

You don't think free lancer pickups at local night spots is a negotiable free market price? In Jakarta, the price varies each night depending on supply and demand. If there are lots of guys there that night, the price is higher than the nights where there are very few guys. It also depends how many girls are there and how good looking they are. The hottest girls do charge more because they know they are higher demand. I can get a plain jane in the same bar for much cheaper. I have given the exact same girl different amounts on different nights depending on supply and demand that night. The price also drops drastically right around closing time if the girl hasn't found anyone to take her yet. Sounds like a free market to me.

[SexIsLove]

Natty, I think Turgid and I are stating that there is no such thing as a free market, anywhere or at anytime. I would say that all the factors you list above are what makes it not a "free market. " It is regulated, by the business owner, which is still regulation. For one, there is pressure for the gal to get a certain number of BFs per month, so she is certainly not "free to choose" who she wants to go with at all times. I think the myth of the "free market" is that people do what is in their best interests and we all have a jolly good time.

Probably closest thing to free market in LOS are the discos like Insanity, Mixx etc. I recall a couple of years ago in Climax (when it was open) girls asking for 5 k LT would usually find few takers but later at night would be reducing as the ones asking 3 k or less were being taken away. Of course there are probably other factors like end of month with rent due, mutual attraction etc but point being they are subjected to much less pressure to conform to any rates & stuff in this environment I would think.

[Goatscrot]

So yeah, I think the BKK P4P Go Go market is free, unregulated, and ultimately determined by supply and demand conditions. That does not mean there are not influences and pressures both from above (management / mamasans), from Thai cultural factors, and from group influence / peer pressure on the girls to conform and maintain a certain set price level, but without enforcement the girls will do what they want to do and what is in their own best interests a majority of the time, so in the end, it is a free market especially since customers too are free to do what they want like walk away if they feel the price is too high. This all feels like a free market to me, but with Thai style sticky prices to finesse and work around. 555.

Natty, I think Turgid and I are stating that there is no such thing as a free market, anywhere or at anytime. I would say that all the factors you list above are what makes it not a "free market. " It is regulated, by the business owner, which is still regulation. For one, there is pressure for the gal to get a certain number of BFs per month, so she is certainly not "free to choose" who she wants to go with at all times. I think the myth of the "free market" is that people do what is in their best interests and we all have a jolly good time.

[CzarNicholas]

Even as recent as 2 years ago gogo girl prices in Pattaya for me at least were 'up to you'. They still may be but since I never discuss price before I take a girl they have no chance to respond up to you or whatever rate they are seeking. I pay my girls fairly. All the gogo girls in the city know that. Having a good reputation matters.

As for Thermae being a free market wasn't there a newbie hotshot last month who said he was pulling in pretty thermae girls for 1000 or 1500 baht? If that is at all true thermae would be considered a free market. I always pay 2500 at thermae with a possible small tip if she was exceptional and allowed pics.

Please explain fair? According to whom? Would I call it fair?

Having a good reputation? For what? Overpaying?

If one doesn't ever negotiate a lower price is that not by definition overpaying?

If that's what qualifies one for a good reputation in Pattaya please count me out.

Can I ask what you require as a minimum for service? Do you have a minimum? Lots of latex?

[Turgid]

Guys its a no brainer. When a girl says "its up to you" she already has a price in her head and she's hoping that you would offer her more. The issue about free market is obviously related to the published price in establishments that is understood by those concerned to be the fare that is to be paid which is not dependent on the vagaries of the market but is set by those in control based on obtaining the maximum profit possible. This is not related to freelance girls who can charge what they want; they can offer you 100 baht LT if they so desire or 10,000 baht ST if they happen upon a customer with remarkable naivety, for instance.