2002-2006 Phnom Penh

[Poomaa]

Hey Guy#2,

I have noticed something recently. Ever since I began to question your motives and criticize your persona, you have been on a campaign in the hope of restoring any credibility which you feel you might have suffered from my comments. All of this without attempting to engage me in a discussion. Only a flood of 500 word posts in an attempt to burry my accusations. Why else do you provide this bland outdated info? Don't you think we can find a book store with more up to date info? Or a website? This is simply a smoke screen tactic. Did you learn this from wacthing Cambo Pro's strategies?

What might our discussion reveal?

Most likely:

* That you enjoy typing or pasting information found which is 2 years old?

* That your news stories which are full of ancient media hype having nothing to do with reality in today's Cambodia?

* That you are not Cambodian?

* That you are paid for whatever reason (NGO?) for posting info on this website?

Poomaa

[Never Return]

Hello all,

I've been reading this board since inception and am finally in the position to travel in Asia. I just wanted to thank Guy#2 for the impressive amount of research he has provided here. I work in SE Asia now and am visiting Cambodia soon so really appreciate the time you put into gathering all the information, Guy#2. You saved me alot of time and effort. I'll post my experiences here when I've visited Cambodia.

[Guy #2]

1. i think i am starting to believe cambodia pro's stories. see no.3.

2. i don't understand why you did not tell us about the brothels in svay pak and phnom penh.

3. you guys are full of shit about foreigners gettin arrested. cambodia has no incentive to shit down its tourist industry. they have to balance kissing the ngos ass and those of donor countries with the corruption of government officials who exploit women in the sex trade.

4. here are two articles on the sex industry in svay pak (they convicted one foreigner). i see that the key words is "svay pak".

5. i am not promoting sex with **** girls. i just want to point out that the original source documents are important at getting at the truth.

6. i also agree with the opinion that these girls are probably not ****, just malnourish. when some white *****, who is 50 pounds overweight from the us or france or australia works for the ngo they think these girls are young because they are malnourished.

when i go to cambodia, people think i am10 years older than my age because i am fat and have been eating the white man's food.

i don't know. maybe some of them are ****. but i am not promoting that.

the articles are a good source of information where the brothels are for girls over 18 and to clear up misconception about the raids and convictions of foreigners.

9. there was one british foreigner convicted and we haven't stopped hearing about that fucker's case. don't you think there would be more news if other people had been convicted. duhhh!

10. most of the people who work for the ngo the state department are jewish. they think they fucking know everything. but they don't. that's why no one likes them, because are a bunch of fucking know it alls.
_______________________
reuters

may 1, 2002

by andrew marshall


svay park, cambodia - for $1, a motorbike will take you on a 20-minute ride up the chaotic highway north of phnom penh, weaving through a riot of bicycles, dogs, trucks and tractors, to the village of svay pak.

in the rough dirt road that runs through the village, two girls in their early teens play badminton. three younger girls chase a chicken around in circles. some teenagers in garish tight polyester dresses saunter past, deep in conversation.

all of them are for sale.

svay pak is a brothel village, a cluster of brick and concrete shophouses where immigrant prostitutes from vietnam offer "boom-boom" -- sex -- and "yum-yum" -- oral sex -- for $5 a time in cramped, clammy rooms and makeshift plywood cubicles.

similar brothel villages can be found all over cambodia. many prostitutes are trafficked from vietnam, but most are ethnic khmers, the majority race in cambodia.

recent surveys have estimated more than a third are under 18.

"many thousands of children are still being abused in cambodia's sex industry ," said laurence gray, regional co-ordinator for development agency world vision's programme for children at risk.

the physical and mental damage is severe.

world vision works with some 300 sexually exploited children in phnom penh. nearly 60 percent are malnourished, 46 percent have sexually transmitted diseases and 18 percent have hiv.

the mental scars are less quantifiable but no less real.

brothel children

in svay pak dozens of women stand in the doorways of their brothels, waving and blowing kisses at customers arriving in the village. others crowd around the foreign men drinking in svay pak's ramshackle beer bars, sweating in the afternoon sun.

most of the women are aged 16 to 20. but visitors who have come looking for even younger girls only have to wait.

soon the whispering starts.

"you want a young girl? very good for you," says "luc", a 12-year-old vietnamese boy pimping girls no older than he is. "come with me and i'll show you."

in curtained-off alcoves in the brothels, customers can sit drinking chilled beer and choose from a selection of **** girls. many of the svay pak brothels have some for sale.

brothel managers, usually women, bring a selection of girls in their early teens, telling them to lift their skirts and t-shirts to show prospective clients their bodies.

the managers offer advice on each girl's sexual experience and ability. some customers like girls with a reputation for "good service". others are looking for virgins.

sex with a girl aged 10 to 13 costs about $30. younger girls cost more. a virgin costs a few hundred dollars.

many of the foreign men who come to svay pak prefer younger girls, partly in the hope of avoiding disease.

"they're clean," luc says. "they haven't been with many men."

but disease is everywhere. up to half of cambodia's prostitutes are estimated to be infected with hiv.

karaoke crackdown

things were supposed to have changed in cambodia.

last year prime minister hun sen issued a decree ordering the country's karaoke parlours and discotheques to close, saying they were havens for prostitution and drug abuse. he vowed to send tanks to demolish bars that defied the ban.

local authorities across the country were told to shut down brothels. the government said the crackdown would end the trafficking of women and the sexual exploitation of children.

humanitarian groups working with prostitutes said the order would destroy the livelihood of tens of thousands of women, but welcomed the prospect of a crackdown on child prostitution.

so far, they have been disappointed.

svay pak still operates openly, and still sells sex with children. cambodia's reputation as a haven for paedophiles is still intact.

"the crackdown has not had a great deal of impact on child prostitution, but i don't think that was ever its main intention," gray said.

business brisk

cambodia's child sex industry thrives amid the poverty that grips the country, the preference of many local and foreign men for **** girls, and the failure of the country's law enforcement system to deal effectively with the problem.

only one foreigner is in jail on a conviction for sexual abuse of children -- englishman john keeler, arrested while making an explicit videotape with four girls aged eight to 10.

other foreigners are usually cleared by the courts -- after bribing officials, according to humanitarian agencies.

gray says cambodia's government is committed to fighting child prostitution, but that translating good intentions into firm action against paedophiles is proving difficult.

"unfortunately this is an issue that requires further attention," he said. "the government makes policy positions that condemn this, but getting resources from within government to combat it is still a problem."

a vietnamese bar girl at svay pak, "long" says she is 18, but looks younger. she was brought there by her parents six months ago and expects to stay six months more.

dressed in shorts, flip flops and a spaghetti-strap cotton top, she grins with her crooked teeth at arriving foreigners: "you want? boom-boom and yum-yum? no problem, five dollars."

her earnings are meagre, but hun sen's crackdown has not dented them.

"many men come here every day," she says. "police too. no problem."


© 2002 reuters


a unicef survey concluded that 35 percent of cambodia's 55,000 prostitutes are children under the age of 16. the oldest girls in the sex industry today are teenagers, says sao chhoeurth, who works with afesip, a french ngo that rescues and rehabilitates child prostitutes.

with recent media attention on ****s such as gary glitter in cambodia and matthew kelly in the united states of america, child prostitution and pornography have suddenly become extremely important to cambodia's cultural image.

with the death of pol pot and the end of the khmer regime in 1998, cambodia prospered as a sex attraction for the many ****s keen on exploring new avenues after thailand, vietnam and other south-east asian nations.

the main brothel areas in cambodia's capital city, phnom penh, are toul kork, keo chandra and svay pak. svay pak, a dusty village 11 km north of phnom penh was a thriving village with 50 odd brothels and child prostitutes as young as 6 years old till last wednesday when the police raided the village. the village which received at least 50 tourists every night, who paid a measly us$ 3 for sex with a child, and scores of locals is now a ghost town. no one was arrested although there were dozens of pimps and customers in the brothels at the time of the raid.

phnom penh police chief general soun chheangly said a decision was made to shut down svay pak becuase it's bad name that affects the cambodia's cultural reputation.

it took continuous campaigning by women's rights groups and the mu sochua, cambodia's women's affairs minister, for more than 2 years and a high profile asean meeting, for the svay pak raid to occur and the brothels to close down. only a few of the child prostitutes released from the brothels have reached afesip and the ministry of social welfare. the majority have been sent on to brothels in other tourist centres, including siem reap, the service town for the ancient angkor wat temple complex, and sihanoukville, a popular beach resort in the south of the country. the police action had been widely advertised in advance.

it is no secret that the brothels in cambodia flourish because of their friendly relations with influential officials in the hun sen government. pimps are reported to imprison young children who are virgins and not put them to work until they've been presented to a series of bidders such as high-ranking military officers, politicians, businessmen and foreign tourists. much of this lucrative industry is controlled by senior police and military officers, and successful arrests/prosecutions are rare. evidence is mysteriously lost, brothels are tipped off before raids, and pimps slip their handcuffs on the way to court.

[Guy #2]

This website has a map of the brothel houses at Svay Pak. Again, if you think my information is not current, give me an update and contribute or shut the fuck up:
http://zenbuckaroo.com/1cam17547svaypak.htm

[Guy #2]

here is another excerpt i found from 2002. some of you might say it's outdated but fuck it has addresses and procedures and pricing. that's all i need:

from the website stickman (not my post):

overview
i visited phnom penn in september 2002 for a 10 day visit. i had worked in thailand as an english teacher for a seven month period. previously i spent 6 years in africa working on development projects. the purpose of my visit was to ascertain whether pp would be a suitable place to live.

what i state here are my own observations. i don’t pretend to be an expert on khmer culture. the situation there is very fluid. things can change very easily from week to week. i wrote this because of my own experience. before traveling i was very anxious to learn more about my destination. this piece may be of use to anyone planning a trip to pp.

i was impressed with the khmer people. they seemed genuine and just happy at being able to live in peace. sometimes i would sit at a cafe and dwell on the past. i found it difficult to imagine that such genocide could be perpetrated there.

for those accustomed to thailand, a visit to pp will definitely be an experience. one enters the third world with pot holed roads, poor infrastructure and run down buildings. i personally found the experience refreshing. also the people don’t smile as easily as the thais. i also liked that. the thai smile to me is always a mask hiding the real intent.


arrival

after arrival (1 hr flight from bkk) signs direct one to a row of immigration officers sitting behind a long counter. the costs is $20 for a normal one month tourist visa. if your are thinking of finding a job paying the $25 for a business visa is advised because it can be renewed indefinitely. your passport is passed down an assembly line of immigration officers after filling out the typical forms. remember to bring one passport photo. this process was quite efficient and took less than 20 minutes from beginning to end.

when exiting the terminal building taxis are not immediately visible. one turns left and walks toward a rectangular taxi stand. fares into town are a predetermined $7.


mottos and motto drivers

next or across from most guesthouses are a regular group of mottos drivers looking for business. they virtually all speak english quite well and are an invaluable source of local information and history. whenever leaving one's accommodation the question will be asked, “where are you going”? i understand this inquiry is a normal part of small talk in khmer culture. typically a vague response is expected if you don’t need a motto like “i am going for a walk”.

these drivers can become quite aggressive and sometimes will follow one down the street. in fact one actually sat next to me one morning at breakfast asking about my itinerary for the day. i made it clear to him that i knew where his bike was stationed and i didn’t want to be bothered again. after this incident they would still try to entice me but kept clear of my personal space.

most destinations within the city cost around 2,000r ($.50) which is slightly increased at night. i found it better to work out a deal with a single driver to act as a chauffeur for the evening (5 hours). it was very nice to come out of a restaurant / bar and have one's driver waiting. this cost about $3. i have used mottos off the street at random but on a few occasions they had difficulty finding my guest house even when presented with a business card in khmer.


brothels

i had read some accounts and spoken to several people about brothels before arriving in pp. the days of young nubile girls standing in front of brothels trying to attract customers are over. the police have cracked down on these establishments deterring normal operations. this sudden moral awakening is simply an effort by the government to skim more donor money.

k11 (suay pak)- as the name would indicate it is a brothel village about 11 kilometers outside of pp. a motto driver will take you there and wait for about $3 round trip. i understand a bus can be taken from town for $1.

the brothels are now all padlocked. normally a boy will meet your bike trying to coerce you in the direction of the brothel he is touting for. on my first trip i followed a boy to a back area of bamboo type huts near a stagnant pond. i was a little sceptical because the ladies passed were rather used looking and not appealing. we came to one simple hut with foam mattress inside and was told to wait.

to my amazement i saw two beautiful teenage viet girls in silk pyjamas being escorted by the boy to the hut. they wanted $20 each for short time. i chose one. i knew at the time i was paying too much but i never had such a beautiful girl like this in thailand. so i paid the money and had quite a good time. there was no shower.

on my second trip i refused any detour and found myself on a dirt road which was main street. there was at least one bar open. again all the brothels (storefronts) were padlocked. it didn’t take long before a boy opened a padlocked gate and moto, moto driver and myself entered. it was quickly locked and shut behind us.

there were about ten girls inside sitting around watching television, sleeping or eating. i was ushered into an inner area with couches. there were no other clients. the girls were all quite attractive. the mamasan had them all line up. they all looked in their teens to early twenties. there was one who looked suspiciously very young. they wanted $10 for short time. i decided to take two. i was shown a fairly primitive shower area. muddy cold rain water was in holding tanks with plastic scoop inside. this part of the experience was the least appealing. i was then taken into one of the girls rooms. it was decorated with pictures of viet film stars, singers and idols. the girls clothes were hung on hangers attached to the wall. the room seemed fairly clean but spartan with no window. there was hardly more room than for the bed which had a good size mattress and bedding. these girls seemed to take pride in their work. again i never had anything like this in thailand. i gave them each a $1 tip.

on my third visit i took my time. i went to two brothels just looking. i took one girl for $8 short time. same type of setup as previously described. it is possible to take a lady lt for around $25 from all brothels. one can do this starting in the afternoon. it is also possible to negotiate prices down. i have little doubt on a slow day it might be possible to get two st for $5 each. i didn’t go crazy over negotiations.


brothels 152nd and 63rd

this is a row of brothels within the city. it also was padlocked. at night they open for business but in most cases a tout waits outside to usher customers in then the doors are locked again. i went to a few of these brothels at various times during some evenings. i don’t know if i was spoiled by k11 or buzzed or both but these girls didn’t impress me. there didn’t seem to be many on duty also. i never had a girl from one of these.


tool kook

this is a notorious brothel street in northern pp. i visited one afternoon and there was absolutely no action visible. again the days of girls lining the street enticing clients are over. i have no idea whether this opens at night. i was told this isn't the safest area at night anyway.


barber shops/massage parlors

near the central market there are a series of barber shops with attached massage facilities. for those accustomed to thai style establishments these will be a great disappointment. i visited one and there were some fairly attractive massage girls in back of the shop. it cost $5 per hour. one is ushered upstairs to a large room with small dingy cubicles with roughly finished wooden beds. very primitive nothing like the tastefully dimly lit cubicles used for thai traditional massages. my girl didn’t know much about massages but was willing to give a blow job for $5. i overpaid. i visited only one of these so others could be of a better quality.


massage parlors

throughout the city there are several massage parlors sometimes attached to hotels. i visited two solely for curiosities sake. one was on the second floor of a three star hotel. behind a glass were ten uniformed girls. the girls ranged in age and attractiveness. the manager told me not all girls would give full service. the younger ones wouldn’t but the used ones would.

the second one was hosted by about 15 girls. they weren’t nicely dressed and didn’t seem that appealing. as with all the massage places visited they charged $5 per hour.

caution: i was chatting with a fellow traveler one night over beers. he had frequented some of the brothels. he used a condom supplied by the establishment. he got a case of gonorrhoea. after hearing this i always brought my own.


restaurants/food

i strongly recommend getting away from the farang type establishments lining the river. i was in pp to experience a little of the khmer culture.

i found the issue of food contrasted greatly with thailand. the thai people have a love affair with food. one cannot walk one block in bkk or any city without finding a noodle stand or small outdoor stall. the same does not hold with pp.

it could be that in khmer culture meals are more centered at home. the thais love to go out for a meal with family or friends.

in pp there are many outdoor type establishments located on street corners frequented by locals. moto drivers taking a break drinking tea and watching boxing. i must admit i never found any of them very appealing. they all looked run down and not that hygienic.
i found one close to my gh and decided to take the plunge. i was greatly surprised by the delicious coffee and french bread served costing $.50 as opposed to $2.50 at the gh. when it came to regular meals it could be rated as average. the fried rice wasn’t as good as thailand. also the food overall is not as spicy which can be a nice respite. normally one can find a waitress who speaks some english.

when serving a meal a mug of hot water was brought to the table with chop sticks inside for disinfecting.

at night many upper scale khmer beer gardens open throughout the city. these resemble christmas trees because the interiors and exteriors are strung with festive lighting. these places typically have live khmer music consisting of singers on stage. an army of promotion girls dressed in colorful beer brand uniforms will accost one until deciding on which beer to order.

tiger draft beer can be very cheap when bought by the large pitcher ($3). it is nice to sip cold beer and listen to the sombre tones of khmer music. one really gets the feeling of being in a different world. the staff are generally quite helpful and anxious to practice english.

a typical nightly itinerary would be as follows. i would first eat dinner at a khmer restaurant. there are some good ones recommended in the lonely planets guide. there are many others. then i would go to several of the beer garden type establishments. from my experience the food in the beer gardens visited was average. it is better to eat at a restaurant first which is generally cheaper. then i would end up at either heart of darkness (heart) or howie’s bar for a night cap.


miscellaneous

if one of the beer garden promotion girls takes your fancy ask her to sit down for a beer. it is part of her job. the level of english is generally poor. these girls work until 1am in general and in restaurants less because they tend to close earlier. i understand some can be picked after the establishment closes.

khmer frequented restaurants in pp tend to be the most crowded between 7 and 8pm.
there are several large beer gardens located on more or less permanent structures moored on the river. these are often crowded and frequented by khmers. i personally found the ones in town nicer. there tends to be plenty of free lancers milling around on weekends in the river front bgs.

i went to martinis and sharkys on several occasions. i cannot be an expert on these establishments. having a motto at my service i was happier to spend an hour here and there. to basically bar hop around town. sharkys is located near the central market.

it is located on the second floor of a run down building. on weekends it can become quite crowded with expats and tourists. even though it was always possible to find a seat at the bar. i didn’t find the ladies there that attractive. many of them looked fairly used.

martinis is located a bit out of the center of town. i found the decorum of plastic tables/chairs to be less desirable. the freelancers i saw were better looking than sharkys. i really didn’t see seriously ****d girls in any establishment visited. obviously because of the crackdown.

security has always been mentioned as a concern when visiting pp. my evening typically would end around 2am. some expat type places like heart and howies stays open all night. when there are customers. i never heard any gunfire in town. twice we ran into a police road block looking for weapons.

i personally didn’t find much to do during the day. it is typically oppressively hot. there are no movie theaters or shopping centers like found in bkk. the central and russian markets are a nice way to spend some hours. i was somewhat watching my money. there is a shooting range outside of town where one can rent an ak47 or a rocket launcher. also for $10 a motto driver will take you to some temples 45km out of town. this is nice to see some of the rural countryside and endless flat rice paddies.

one can get an excellent room in pp with a/c, cable, bathroom, refrigerator and nice size bed for $10 per night. there is a full range of accommodations available in town if one is on a strict budget. but paying anymore than $12 is totally unnecessary!

on my gh wall was a list of rules to be followed by tenants. there was to be no use of illegal substances. well one could not avoid getting a strong smell of ganja floating on the air so this rule was not adhered too. the second rule was no prostitutes. normally i don’t take ladies lt in thailand. but in pp it might have been interesting to learn more about the culture and have some company during the day. my gh was family run so i adhered to this regulation. i would strongly consider staying somewhere else next time. one should choose accommodations carefully if this is an issue.

[Guy #2]

i was really getting depressed from seeing nothing but posts about he fcc club and martinis and the tonle sap area. it sounds like an expatriat area where white guys drink beer and talk about sports. even heart of darkness sounds like a guy hangout. i never understood why guys like to just hang in bars. i always have a mission from god. haha.

well, i am feeling better now because i am starting to find the local habngouts--after 7 days of web research. here's some things that i found on brothels and massages and karokes on a website called www.**********.com (codeword for brothels):
_____________________________________________

your best bet by far is to have your car taxi driver take you to the brothers. if you must venture on your own, then look for any sign along the dusty street that bears the name in english, “karaoke, massage” as that is most likely a brothel in disguise. such ***** houses are rep001tered throughout phnom penh, but the largest cluster will be found on 63’rd street. the most popular of these is lay lay, which has a nice selection of vietnamese hookers about 25 girls to choose from.



if you are having sex at the massage parlor i.e., brothel, carry only the exact amount of money you need to pay for the massage, plus some pocket change to tip the girl, buy a coke, etc. give the rest of your money to your friend to hold while you’re screwing. if that won’t work, do not screw the girl at the massage parlor. instead, request she come with you to your hotel where she is on your turf. at your hotel, you should have all your valuables locked in the safe deposit box or bolt and key in your room. i have a combination lock on my briefcase where i keep my money. any money left hidden in a closet in your room is history. don’t make it so easy for the girls to steal your money.
how much: short time or a quick session of sex at the parlor will cost you $5 and up. you can take the girl back to your hotel for an hour or more for $10 on up. my personal preference is to take the girl of my choice back to me to my hotel as the rooms at most parlors are not exactly what i would call the grand palace suite. many of the rooms at the smaller parlors are fan rooms with very limited facilities making it too uncomfortable for me. i prefer to fuck in a room where i know the sheets are clean, i have fresh towels, a western style toilet, hot/cold shower, fresh soap, and so on.
how it's done: the mo at the parlor is for a loud buzzer to sound or a mamasan to clap her hands or yell at the girls to get their attention when you first enter. all the girls sitting around many sleeping from boredom or staring at themselves in the mirror to make sure their make-up is perfect will then run behind a large plate glass window for you to view them note some of the parlors the girls will have number tags so you can tell the host which one you like. at the lower class parlors, the girls will aggressively approach you, nudging and pulling at you, parroting the words, “you! yum yum, good! my friend, you!” yum yum is slang for oral sex. most parlors are open from noon to midnight, seven days a week, throughout the year. most of the clientele are asian men, not tourists.

cambodia is an extremely rugged and dangerous country to visit. as a result, it attracts few tourists, especially from western countries. most of the westerners male who go to cambodia are experienced travelers coming from thailand to do either a quick 3-5 day visit or a visa run. those who are doing a visa run either live or are staying long term in thailand. their visa has expired and cambodia is one of the easiest countries to go to renew one’s visa. once they renew their visa, they will quickly hope on a plane and return to thailand, the land of pleasure. those who are coming for a quick visit are usually among the brave few who have been to thailand many times and are looking to explore new sex playgrounds. other tourists who come to cambodia are backpackers and adventure seekers interested in seeing the angkor temple complex, the world’s largest religious monument.

why go?
"most of the single male tourists who come to cambodia are coming from thailand you can fly out of bangkok or pattaya to do a visa run. in other words, they are coming here because they have to, not because they find it so desirable. such tourists usually stay in cambodia a short 3-5 days, then return to thailand proving thailand is the place to be, not cambodia. indeed, many tourists only ride by mini bus across the border into cambodia for a one day trip rushing back to paradise i.e., thailand as quickly as possible.

few, if any, single male tourists fly directly into cambodia as a primary vacation destination. cambodia offers little or nothing in terms of fun or comfort i.e., security, dining, shopping, sightseeing, etc.. there is almost nothing in terms of nightlife no go go bars, no topless bars, no pattaya style beer bars overflowing with girls and only a handful of "short time" brothels and massage parlors, most of which you will find quite sleazy and depressing. the brothels, unlike thailand or the philippines, are set up for locals, not tourists. what that means is you will probably find them extremely uncomfortable. for example, western style toilets, showers, air-conditioning, clean sheets, towels, even cushioned beds are a rarity in most of the brothels. shortly, we'll name the best and cleanest places to go .

outside of the red light district, the capital phnom pehn offers almost nothing in the way of entertainment or comforts of home no movie theaters, water parks, air conditioned malls, etc.. most of you will find the place extremely boring and like the vast majority of male tourists who come for the sex, will find a 5 day trip too long as it is and be anxious to return back to thailand where the word fun was invented.

so why go to cambodia? outside of a visa run for those of you who are hanging long term in thailand, you are advised not to waste your time or risk your life. the country has little to offer and what sexual pleasures await you can be all too easily duplicated, in a much safer and enjoyable environment, in thailand.

while you can expect to certainly get laid every single day of your stay, don’t expect to find much in the way of nightlife. there are no strip clubs, go-go bars, high class disco’s, sex shows, or any of the wild and fun stuff you will find in thailand. most of the action will be found during the day at the low class brothels and massage parlors where you will be sharing the women often with the local khmer boys. the brothels are pimp controlled and it is not unusual for a male pimp to gently grab you and with the help of a cluster of girls, “force” you into the brothel. during the evening there are only two or three places to go to pick up on girls and once you burn out on these places, you know it’s time to move on to another country.


women
the sex scene is primarily, with the exception of martini’s pub and sharkey’s bar, brothel oriented and pimp controlled. what that means is things are set up so you fuck the prostitute in the brothel itself, not in your hotel room like you would with an angeles city philippines or pattaya beach thailand hooker. it also means you generally must go through a pimp to get to the girl, rather than deal with the girl on her own terms. the prostitutes that work the brothels are either vietnamese or khmer girls or half and half, averaging the age of sixteen to twenty-nine. most are very short and petite, giving the appearance of children. these girls fuck for money, period. unlike the filipina's who desire love, marriage and romance with their customers, most cambodian hookers are professionals mostly with hearts of stone. once you fuck them and pay them, you no longer exist. unless of course, you overpaid them, in which they will certainly be back for more. outside of martini’s pub and sharkey’s bar, which cater exclusively to male tourists, the prostitutes service primarily local khmer men. what that means is the sex scene, with few exceptions, caters to the local khmers, not for the tourists. that’s why, if you go to toul kork for example, you’ll find yourself feeling faint of heart when you see the horrid conditions of the room that you are expected to have sex in. most of the brothels offer short time sex although you can pay for all night, expecting you to drop your pants, spring a hard-on, and shoot your load at the drop of hat, so the next customer can make his way in. this makes the sex scene in cambodia very impersonal and cold, with the hookers pussy functioning only as a vendor in which you can shoot your load. there is no time for “getting to know one another” and little opportunity to “spend time together”. while the girls of martini’s pub and sharkey’s bar give somewhat of an impression that your time together is special, that is an illusion. the girls are there only to make money off of you and then move on to the next guy. that is the reality of the sex scene in cambodia. perfect for the guy who just wants to shoot his load with no strings attached, not the scene for the guy who wants to fall madly in love with the hooker doll of his dreams. not to say you cannot meet a girl in the brothels who will make good companionship, but most are pros just in it for the money.

surprisingly, you will find both khmer cambodian and vietnamese women working the red light districts. vietnamese girls have migrated into cambodia to work the sex trade probably because the pay is better and there is less problems with the police. neither the khmer nor vietnamese women speak much english. by comparison, the thai bar girls are english scholars, really. khmer girls tend to be much darker skinned, with black and somewhat frizzy hair. the vietnamese girls have much lighter skin, pinker nipples and more of the expected slanted eye look. there are reports that the vietnamese girls give better service sexually i.e., bj’s, but that has yet to be proven. both khmer and vietnamese prostitutes are money oriented although to us the cost is next to nothing and once you have paid and the sex is over with, they will move on to the next customer. you will be hard pressed to find girls who, like the filipinas, who are relationship or marriage minded. this is to your advantage as you will find less jealously and possessiveness meaning taking two, three, four or even five girls at the same time will simply not be a problem.

cost
next to free, it does not get much cheaper. most of the major brothels and massage parlors charge $5 for short time sex. all night generally will cost you $20 to $25. there have been reports of a few places where sex goes for as little as $2. this is what most of the local khmer men pay when frequenting a brothel.

in the low class brothels, such as svay pak also known as kilometer or km. 11, tuol kork, and the low class massage parlors, the going rate for the tourist is $4-$5 for short time plus a $1 to $2 tip if the girl was really good. short time means one fuck, lasting fifteen to twenty minutes. if you take longer than that, expect the other girls to start pounding on your door wondering what’s taking so long. if you take a free lance prostitute out of martini’s, sharky’s, the boat houses, etc., the going rate is $10 for short time for most girls. on occasion you will get a spoiled ***** who thinks she is above everyone else thanks to some tourist over paying her and therefore will ask $15. such a girl usually turns out to be no better a performer than the rest, so i would not advise going with such a girl or paying her such an inflated rate. you should add a $1 tip for motorbike fare to all the girls, except the $15 girl. she’s already overcharged you as it is. most of the time you will be expected pay at the end of the session, after sex, not in advance. i would be very leery of any free lance who asks to pay in advance. by the way, you can also pay these girls in thai baht. they will all know the exact exchange rate.

legal
how do you determine their age: most of the prostitutes do not carry id cards with them. if they do, it won’t do you much good, unless you read the khmer or vietnamese language. it’s impossible to know a khmer or vietnamese hookers true age as it’s the nature of her and her pimp to lie, having you believe she is the age she thinks you want her to be. if, for example, a hooker thinks you want a young girl, she will tell you she is only 14 or whatever age group you seem interested in. if she thinks you want a more mature woman, presto! the 14 year old is now 19. thus it’s difficult to know the true age of any prostitute in cambodia. to complicate things more, you cannot tell the age of an asian merely by looks. many of the prostitutes look much younger than they really are, usually due to their body size. you can know this by asking the age of the street children who are not so apt to lie about their age and compare their size and physical maturity with the prostitutes. you will be shocked at how young all of them appear one kid on the street looked like she was only about seven and turned out to be thirteen; another looked eleven and was sixteen. another way is to ask your taxi driver, especially if he is married with children, the age of any girl. he will be able to approximate the true age of a girl with little exaggeration. most of the time, you will think the prostitute is several years younger than their true age. this is what trips up the anti-sex groups with their highly distorted statistics of children working the brothels in cambodia.

although prostitution is technically illegal, the police turn their back by way of bribery. there are crackdowns usually because the police want more money and the brothel owners refuse to pay and this forces the red light scene to change and move to another area. tourists are rarely bothered when partaking in the sex industry unless there is an **** under 16 girl involved. the legal age of consent is 16 and you are strongly advised to stay clear of anything younger than that. to be safe, if you bring any girls to your hotel, make sure they are obviously i.e., have mature face, nice size breasts, etc. of age. ngo’s non governmental organizations have been known to call the police when spotting a tourist with what appears to be an **** girl.


_____________________________

the website requires a fee but by looking at the categories, you get a sense of where the street action is:

___________________________
60’s bar - 1
china club - 1
garden bar - 1
howies’s bar - 1
kim’s kiwi bar - 1
martini's - 1
number one - 1
sharkys bar

247 street - 1
around town - 1
kin svay - 1
road 154 - 1
svay pak - 1
toul kork


sakura massage - 1
new world massage - 1
lay lay massage parlor - 1
karok massage hotel - 1
bararasthmey massage karaoke - 1
my chan massage karaoke

[Guy #2]

Here are the excerpts on 3 nightclubs from www.concierge.com:

I know that some asshole will say, "Yeah but that's outdated" or blah, blah, blah. Here's my response, What the fuck have you posted to help us out. At least, I am fucking trying.

Notice the subtle comment about "local girls." at Martinis.

I know, I know, some people have posted Martini before. Thank you. But I need addresses, phone numbers, hours of operation. I need to confirm that the information is correct and current as I will be looking for a hotel nearby.

I need more details and to confirm with original or secondary source documents.

_____________________________________

1.Sharky Bar
Late nights and atmosphere

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overview

Boasting the longest bar in town, this long-running local institution serves up beer and a full range of other drinks. The entertainment offered includes classic rock and three pool tables. The decor has a distinctly American flavor, and if the music gets too loud, there is a large, pleasant balcony. It is an extremely popular hangout with a fun atmosphere, geared more towards the male customer but welcomes anyone.

—powered by wcities

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At A Glance

Address:
126 Street 130
Phnom Penh

2.Nexus
Cool nightclub with stylish music

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overview

In the shadow of Independence Monument, this stylish little nightclub has a loyal core of customers. The music selection is broad and appealing--hip hop, reggae, house--and there is a strong French presence in the customer base. A long list of cocktails is featured as well as, unusual for a dance spot, a pool table. The bar often features movies or major sporting events early in the evening before the dancing really gets going, but once the dance floor starts buzzing, that is the definite center of activity.

—powered by wcities

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At A Glance

Address:
36 Sihanouk Boulevard
Next to Independence Monument
Phnom Penh

Phone: 855 12 850 643 (mobile)
Martini Pub
Disco, movie theater, snack bar

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overview

This bar and disco is unique and its fame has spread internationally. Dance it up with the hoards of local girls inside, drink outside at the tables in front of the huge movie screen (showing everything from latest releases to Chinese kung fu action), or sample the offerings of the many outdoor food kiosks. Cheap beers (around USD2 per can) and spirits make for an affordable evening. This perpetual party atmosphere is the one place in town you can be assured of a crowd any night of the week.

—powered by wcities

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At A Glance

Address:
402 Mao Tse Tung Boulevard
Phnom Penh

3.

[Guy #2]

I spent the last 4-5 days looking for a good website that gives addresses and locations of all the bars and night clubs along with a description of the neighborhoods. They all suck. The best of the worst was on www.concerge.com. They had a nice description of all he neighborhoods.

Remember those restaurants I mentioned. That sounds like the area across the river and to the east. The writer says that those areas are for more affluent Cambodians. True. BUT the food is actually better and cheaper than where the Westerners mingled because it is for local Cambodians. I ate where the Westerners mingled and the food was a rip off. So don't be discourage by going to a place for more affluent Cambodians. It's like when you go toManhattan and the food is actually cheaper in the suburbs where more afluent New Yorkers live because only the tourists are stupid enough to pay the downtown prices.

I bring up the restaurants across the river because that's where I saw the beer girls.

This website also has addresses for Martinis, Sharkeys, and all those places that people here mentioned.

Unfortunately, it doesn't discuss the pussy pickup scale.

Here is an excerpt:

North and Wat Phnom
At the end of Norodom Boulevard in the northern part of town, Wat Phnom, at 27 meters above sea level, is the Cambodian capital's highest point. It was around this wat that the city is supposed to have been centered, and it is after the woman who built this structure--a lady named Penh--that the city is named. Locals still come here to pray for luck. This is also the place to ride Sam Bo the Elephant or sit and drink fresh coconut juice in the shade of ancient trees.

Behind Wat Phnom a cluster of restaurants, including Le Deauville and Anthony's Pizza, offer more up-market dining. To the east is the French Quarter, boasting some of town's most impressive surviving colonial architecture. Not far from here, Hotel Le Royal once housed the world's most famous war correspondents. Now it offers five-star accommodations in colonial opulence.

Also in this area is Boeng Kak Lake. Its surrounds, making up the most densely populated area in town, are home to a rabbit warren of cheap guesthouses and budget bars and restaurants along with the Royal School of Fine Arts, which regularly stages Khmer classical dance performances.

Central Phnom Penh and Psar Thmei
Psah Thmai actually means new market in Khmer, but most foreigners know this imposing art-deco dome as the Central Market. It is the largest market in the city. Everything from miniskirts to monkeys is offered here. Around the outside of the market cheap electrical shops pile their wares high on the southern side of the market and gold shops sit to the southeast.

There are also several bars around the market, including Kim's Kiwi Bar and Sharky Bar. On the Monivong Boulevard side, a cluster of small, affordable Chinese restaurants including Peking Canteen constitute somewhat of a Chinatown.

East - the River and Beyond
The cool breeze off the Tonle Sap makes it an ideal place for open-air restaurants and bars. A two-kilometer strip beginning at the Royal Palace and Silver Pagoda and ending just east of Wat Phnom is thickly dotted with some of the best eateries in town. Sit high in the Foreign Correspondents' Club, or enjoy British hospitality and pub grub at the The Rising Sun around the corner. German, Thai, Khmer and French foods are some of the other cuisines available here.

This area is not wanting for cultural landmarks either. Squarely in the middle of this strip, the imposing pagoda is called Wat Ounalom, one of the oldest and probably the most influential in Phnom Penh. And at dusk, huge flocks of bats billow from the National Museum behind the Foreign Correspondents' Club. Street 178, beside the museum is the artist district of town, and nearly every shop here is a mini-art gallery.

Cross the river, using the impressive Cambodian-Japanese Friendship Bridge, and you enter two of Phnom Penh's outlying districts. Prek Leap begins on the other side of the river in a flurry of signs for Khmer-style restaurants. This restaurant strip is very popular with more affluent Khmers. Chinese and Khmer food are the staples but the chief attraction is the entertainment. Karaoke, stage shows, comedy acts and more are available for the amusement of diners. Just before Prek Leap, a turnoff to the right will take you to Chruoy Changvar, the peninsula that can be seen across the water from the riverside in Phnom Penh. This area is almost rural, with cattle and goats wandering about and banana and mango trees lining the dirt roads.

South - Independence and Baccarat
The southern area of town is anchored by the massive Hotel Cambodiana Phnom Penh and Independence Monument. Next to the Cambodiana floats the Naga Casino providing 24 hours of gambling every day. This area features Topaz, which many regard as Phnom Penh's premier French restaurant. A cluster of restaurants that have sprung up around it offers a dish for most budgets and tastes. Food stalls just south of the monument offer late-night diners Khmer and Chinese dishes until the early hours of the morning. The area further south is known to many expatriates as “NGO land,” and many non-government agency offices are located here.

West - Shopping, Shooting and History
West of Monivong Boulevard, the most famous landmark is one of the most tragic reminders of Cambodia's turbulent history. Toul Sleng Genocide Museum (S-21), a former high school turned torture center by the Khmer Rouge is open for visitors to view the gruesome torture techniques employed by the regime between 1975 and 1979. Thousands were processed here, and those who did not die were shipped to the Choeng Ek Killing Fields, 11 kilometers southwest of town, where they were bludgeoned to death and buried in mass graves. For a lighter day out, the southwest of town is where to go for souvenirs, cheap clothes and silk at Psah Toul Tom Poung (Russian Market). A little further out is the Military Shooting Range, where tourists can try their hands at shooting an AK-47 or B-40 rocket.

Phnom Penh in a small space offers a lot to see and do. Every section of the city can provide you with good restaurants, good shopping, and interesting sights. It is easy to navigate especially with the help of the friendly Khmer people, who are reason to come to the city.

Text by Bronwyn Sloan

[Guy #2]

It took me 3 days to find a website that pulled up maps of streets in Phnom Penh by street name and no. Try this:

http://www.visit-mekong.com/cambodia/maps/city_maps/map_pp_03.htm

[Guy #2]

I am still looking for a good hotel. I am considering the Micasa, the Cambodiana, Sunway or the Intercontinental.

I am looking for a hotel that:

1. Has a telephone that I can call cell users;
2. Has an in room safe;
3. Has a Western style bathroom;
4. Has cheap laundry service; and
5. Is (a) within walking distance to a market where I can pick up ordinary girls

and (b) within walking distance to a nightclub where I can pick up bad girls.

Let me know if you have any information.

It would also be nice if I can find a hotel under $60 that can meet these requirements.

Other things I am looking for:
1. Car and driver cheaper than $3 an hour.
2. Cell phone rental--what is rental per minute in Cambodia.
3. Motorbike rental that does not ask for my passport.
4. Pharmacy that sells oraquick.
5. Cheap place to do my laundry.
6. Your personal experiences in picking up girls in bars. etc

[Guy #2]

Here is a list of nightclubs that I found during my research. The website --ttp://www.marveltour.com/marvel/eng/cambodia_explorations/cambodia_night_clubs.html--has a list of bars too.

This does not end the analysis. There are two questions you must consider:

1. Where are these clubs on the map?
2. How can I get to the clubs and get pussy without getting rob? Motoribike (you have to leave your passport) ? Walk (safe?) Driver and car $3 an hour (adds to your cost of getting laid.

(I got this all off the web. I'll try to visit these places and report back after August 20.)

NIGHT CLUBS
7 Star 342 , Street Monivong Blvd,
Sangkat Boeung Keng Kang I ,
Khan Chamcar Mon, Phno Phnom Penh
Tel : 012 828 803012 838 239

BIBA Krom 8 , Mondol 3 , Sangkat 3 ,
Khan Mittapheap Krong Preah Sihanouk
Tel : 012 889 840012 892 219

Bopha Tep Street 9, Phum Prek Mohatep,
Khum Prek Prah Sdach,
Srok Battam Bang Battambang
Tel : 015530141

BOPHA TIP I 463, St Sisowath, Sangkat Chaktomuk,
Khan Daun Penh Phnom Penh
Tel : 012 851 341

BOPHA TIP II 20 Moasitong Blvd,
Sangkat Boeung Keng Kang III,
Khan Chamkamon Phnom Penh
Tel : 023 427 480012 851 341

CASADISCO CLUB 39, St 47, Sangkat Sras Chork,
Khan Daun Penh Phnom Penh
Tel : 023 360 595

Golden Boss 392 Monivong Blvd.
Sangkat Boeung Kengkang 1 Khan
Camkarmon Phnom Penh
Tel : 012 847080

Koh Keo Phum Chork , Khum Rokaknong,
Srok DaunKeo, Takeo Takeo

Ly Lay 321-329 Street Khampucheakrom Khan 7
Makara Phnom Penh
Tel : 023 428517

LY LAY 221-331, St Kampuchea Krom,
Sangkat Mittapheap,
Khan 7 Makara Phnom Penh
Tel : 023 428 516

Makao Krom 8 , Mondul 4 ,Sangkat 4 ,
Khan Mittapheap Krong Preah Sihanouk
Tel : 016- 844 133016- 844 633

Martini (discotheque) Phum Watdomnak, Khum Salakamroek,
Srok Siem Reap Siem Reap
Tel : 012838688

Nigh Sound Beer Garden 7B, Street 84, Phnom Pernh Phnom Penh
Tel : 016 823 040

PACIFIC KISS 10,St 128, Sangkat Phsar Thmei II,
Khan Daun Penh Phnom Penh
Tel : 018 810 441

PHKA CHHOUK TIP I 5, St 336, Sangkat Phsar Doeum Kor,
Khan Toul Kork Phnom Penh
Tel : 023 427 446

PHKA CHHOUK TIP II 7, St 336, Sangkat Phsar Doeum Kor,
Khan Toul Kork Phnom Penh
Tel : 023 428 219

Sharaton Dancing 47,Sangkat.Wat Phnom,
Khan.Daun Penh Phnom Penh
Tel : 023 360395023 360396
Fax : 023361199, 023 426858
Email : Sharaton @ forum.org.kh

Tep Mono Phum Chork , Khum Rokaknong,
Srok Daunkeo, Takeo Takeo

Than Sour Phum Kbal Krabey, Khum Svay Paur ,
Srok Battam Bang Battambang

Toeuk Roam Phka Roam 39-90, St 139, Sangkat Vealvong,
Khan 7 Makara Phnom Penh
Tel : 023 366 096

Vimean Kongkea Street Sisowath Sangkat Watphnom
Khan Daun Penh Phnom Penh
Tel : 015 920943

[Guy #2]

as i am preparing for my trip, my research now focuses on the laws and enforcement activities and ngo activities. below is a recent article from the ap. this is what i consider an "original source" document as opposed to meer speculation, gossip, anecdotes. as i said, "just the facts, ma'am."

as a disclaimer, i support the enforcement activities against these brothels using **** children. i am not posting this to promote such activity. i am posting this as an example of original source documents that you should try to cite when you discuss your fears of the ngo overreaching and trumping up false charges.

a good observation is that during the arrests, no westerners were arrested and they seemed to go after the brothel owners. again i am not promoting such conduct by the brother owners or children, which is sick.

do you see the website at the bottom. this gives you your next lead to get an idea of the laws and policies of the host country:

_______________________________________

posted on wed, apr. 02, 2003

13 arrested in cambodian brothel raid
ker munthit
associated press

phnom penh, cambodia - thirteen vietnamese, arrested in raids on a notorious brothel district in phnon penh, were charged tuesday with using children as prostitutes.

thirty-seven vietnamese girls - one as young as 5, and another 9 years old - were rescued in the raids on saturday, a prosecutor said.

seven women and five men were charged with prostituting children and conspiracy to prostitute children, lawyer khut sopheang said. if found guilty, they face between 10 to 20 years in prison, he said.

another man was charged with prostituting children and drug possession. the charges carry a combined penalty of up to 25 years in prison.

the suspects were arrested saturday in a raid on the brothel district by cambodian police and members of a u.s. christian human rights group, the international justice mission.

investigators from the group had videotaped sex trade transactions involving young girls and passed the evidence onto police, who raided and rescued the 37 girls. one of the rescued girls was 5 years old and another nine of them were under 10, said maj. phuong sophy from the interior ministry's bureau of juvenile protection and anti-[CodeWord908].

the 10 youngest girls were found hiding in a bathroom and under a bed in one house, said maj. phuong sophy, who led the raid.

-----

on the net: international justice mission, www.ijm.org

[Guy #2]

Traveler tip:

1. I was wrong. The five star hotel wants payment in advance. Am still searching for a hotel that does not require advance payment and that has a phone.

2. Found a car and driver through a tour operator for $25 a day from 7am to 7pm or $3/hour after 7:00 p.m. I know this is high. But at least I found something.

3. Found out that the banks will cash traveler's checks for 2% fee at CCCP Bank with a $2000 limit per day.

4. Found a cell phone that I can rent for $5 a day from Samart. Am still investigating per minute rate.

5. Found another cell phone provider that charges .06$ per minute but am investigating rate for hand set and other fees that are not clear to me.

6. Still investigating whether hotel has phones and safe deposit box

Even Batman needs his utility belt.

Here's what I think I will need to chase pussy in Cambodia:

1. Cell phone
2. Decent hotel with clean toilet and phone and safe deposit box
3. Car and driver for 7:00pm through 4:00 a.m.
4. Access to cash
5. A thorough knowledge of the map and streets

Women that make good safe sex partners:

1. Girls off the street (ordinary women older than 18)
2. College girls
3. Employees at hotels/ restaurants--girls with jobs looking to supplement their income
4. Other people's wives
5. Beer girls/ promotional models

Too dangerous and will rule out except for a consensual good feel:

5. Sex workers--except for consensual dryfucking and nude dancing and a good feel (no promise and no exchange of money)

6. Bar girls--same as 5
7. Girls who date white guys (high risk)--same as 5
8. Girls who date the natives (even more high risk)--same as 5
9. Girls who I meet in bars.

Perfect girls to fuck but can't for ethical reasons:

10. The 40-50 college girls who contacted me about marriage. They are clean because they know or should know that INS test for AIDS.

[Cambodia Pro]

1 Ball.......relax,

If you are ever in Cambodia , I will buy you a drink at Martini's.

Just look for the cool man dancing like crazy with the most beautiful girlies at Martini's around 9PM to 10 PM on Wednesday, Friday, and Saturdays. That's me! The one in the white Ralph Lauren Polo shirt. I bought about 50 of those at a store liquidation. I wear the same type of shirt when I go to martini's, it's sort of my trademark image. I have met punthers from Germany, England, and Australia. That say, Are you Cambo pro? When I say yes, they have this look of awe, and amusement on their faces, to meet someone in person that they only know by a handle in the WWW, they always shake my hand and ask me about the good places in Cambodia.

In any case the time shared jet is a new thing for me. I still have to use commercial airplanes for long journeys to Europe and Brazil, or when the jet is being used by the other owners.

Cambodia.... where sex dreams come true.

Originally posted by 1ball
If it was a direct flight, or a non stop, why pay the 500 Baht departure tax in BKK? even in transit, there would be no tax, as it is only owed once you have actually entered the kingdom. Aplogies to all for harping on the subject, just trying to cut through the huge amount of BS

1 ball

[Cambodia Pro]

Hey Guy #2,

That is a good map. This one gives you the Club Locations with the name in the map. Can't make it more convenient for you.
Martinis is in the lower left corner, next to the street 404. Most of the other clubs are close to the central market. e.g. Le Cyrcee, Shangai bar, Sharky bar, etc. 63 street is behind some of the bars.

http://www.canbypublications.com/maps/ppmaphhr.htm

You can look at other Cambodia maps if you decide to venture aoutside PP which I recommend to have the whole Cambo experience.

http://www.canbypublications.com/maps/maphome.htm

Have fun, live your fantasy in real life.

Cambodia..... where sex dreams come true.

Originally posted by Guy #2
I found a good detailed map of Phnom Penh at this website. You can zoom in and get a detailed map of the city section by section.

http://www.bongthom.com/Maps/ShowMap.asp?IDMap=41

These maps will let me identify all the bars and clubs from your posts.