Monterrey - Mill Just's Reports

[Mill Just]

...but, of course, they are also "females" first, and sometimes, if one can catch them in an unguarded moment, they stop acting like hos, and project a depth of sincerity...

Ummm...No, no and NO! NO...NO...NO...and once again, NO! What you should say is that they are good at providing the kind of service that their clients like. And, I can say without doubt, that the majority of the chicas actually prefer a cold, quick and mechanical "relationship" with a client because they simply will never see a client as a BFE. Of course, though, there are the more wicked ones who attempt to be all things to all people...(and those are the ones that the more impressionable foreign mongers tends to fall for).

There, my friend UNO, is where your formula veers off course and into the abyss. Ken has 100% the right attitude on mongering, an attitude that will yield years upon decades of satisfying experiences whereas your approach eventually fizzles out because the idea at the base of your approach is flawed. Simply put: there are no honest hookers. There may be honest women working as hookers, but when they are in the role of sexoservidoras, none are to be trusted (unless they have like 1 or 2 weeks on the job and haven't changed yet).

[MonterreyDude]

Mill, Catholic guilt has almost vanished here in Mexico... might be traces and exceptions on the level you point out, but what you see today is NOTHING compared to what I was witness 20 years ago and back.

Upper mid 90's up everythings changed and a lot.
For example, no one dared question Catholic authority.
No one dared speak against Pro Life (you just can't believe the power Pro Life had here)
No, life is different from 10 years ago.
Believe me, Catholic guilt right now is just a whimper, a sigh.

We are debout Catholics, but debout faithwise, not for following others that take the word of God in their own design...

If I may add, there is plenty of Catholic guilt here in Mexico. However, The Catholic church has had such a strangle-hold on the Mexican culture that their words mean almost nothing to some- much like the way an overly-strict mom's threats lose their impact over the course of 18 years. But make no mistake that Catholic guilt drives a great portion of the Mexican culture- just not the 1% that we may see in the mongering world.

When I first started to come to Mexico, and Morelia in particular, I was so in love with the place, too, and I marvelled at the way everyone seemed to know their place and accept their lives, such as they were. I told this to my Mexican friend, an older guy who really took me under his wing, and he said, "No, there is a big difference between acceptance of who we are and the truth, which is that Mexico is a land of quiet resignation. We were told who to be and saw no way out...so we are who we are."

In any case, though, Mexican mongering sure beats the hell out of anything the States has to offer.

[MonterreyDude]

Solid and out of date MJ.
2 places in that report have already closed.
I will direct USB to the MP's... I been coaching him for his next visit, incluidng telling him that his best aid is the El Sol afternoon newspaper.
USB didn't even realized that there are almost 10 MPs in a one block radius from the Infinito.

Why not just check the Reports of Distinction thread right here on the ISG? Proko's information on the MP's seems solid.

Somehow, though, I sense a very negative report coming up from you....Kinda like Fox News reporting on the Democratic National Convention....

[El Cabron 007]

MJ, how do you come up with this? and so true... don't get me started.

I, on the other hand, expect Bob to come back with GFE @ a MTY MP. How much do you ant to bet? ....

Just kidding ... we love you USB.

Why not just check the Reports of Distinction thread right here on the ISG? Proko's information on the MP's seems solid.

Somehow, though, I sense a very negative report coming up from you....Kinda like Fox News reporting on the Democratic National Convention....

[Mill Just]

Why not just check the Reports of Distinction thread right here on the ISG? Proko's information on the MP's seems solid.

Somehow, though, I sense a very negative report coming up from you....Kinda like Fox News reporting on the Democratic National Convention....

I am going to be visiting the MPs next week. One problem...El Sol, the source for all the exact locations of the MPs, is only pubished a certain day of the week. I think it may be mid-week, and I don't really want to be delayed in visiting the MPs until mid-week. I would like to work them in with my normal routine visiting the clubs.

I want to check out the 6-7 best ones, but not necessarily the most expensive ones. I would expect to find superior quality of selection in the high end ones like Missess. I am interested wih respect to the moderately priced MPs for quality of selection. God knows...the lower end clubs DO have "some" pretty ugly girls...so, if I can find an MP that has superior selection to what is available in the selection of ugly girls in the clubs, superior selection for the price, then I am totally willing to give them another try.

Oh, what the hell...go ahead and advise me the top 4 high end MPs as well, and their locations. Mastermind's report has me intrigued with respect to Misses. I will check out the best of the high end MPs too while I'm at it.

Which are recommended, and can someone supply their exact locations? I don't want to be in MTY and have to wait for El Sol to hit the newstand to begin visiting them. And, secondly, what is the best times of day, evening, or night to visit them? What times will I find the best quality of selection in abundance?

My intentions are legit. I promise to assess them once again with a totally open mind. But, there are literally 50 massage parlors in MTY, and some are quite honestly, based on my prior research, a waste of time with respect to selection. I need some guidance in narrowing my focus so as to be more efficient, and to give them an honest opportunity to redeam their respective reputations with regard to my currently negative perceptions of them as having potential with respect to selection. I am totally open to being convinced.

And, what is possibly even more intriguing to me with respect to my GFE preferences is the possibility of MP "fining" them. I know in the past, that the girls are permitted to leave the MP if you pay their salida. If I find a diamond, or diamonds, in the rough, this strategy could have significant potential. Especially if I get to eventually know a few of them like I know the club girls. Arrangements can usually be made on the side at a reduced rate. Anyway, I want to test the full range of potential within the MPs, and that will be my focus, at least for the first part of the week next week. But, it will all hinge on quality of selection. Personality and charm??? Well, that will be up to them. I promise a full report upon my return if I am given the guidance here first with respect to logistics.

[MonterreyDude]

MJ, did you read my post #1864 ???

To avoid any further confrontations, am not posting anything more on the subject.
Your 2 cents are in too late.

Hey, why doesn't Jackson just make 20 seperate threads so that every poster has his own personal thread and nobody has to feel the need to confront eachother?

Seriously, without trying to flame, I think that you (Carlos and USB) do have a real contempt in your responses to those who have different perspectives than you. Differing viewpoints are seen as stupid and ignorant or as a direct attack against you and part of conspiracy to belittle the strip clubs in Monterrey.

What Master simply wrote was that he went to the strip clubs and didn't like them. He preffered the MP scene. I don't think there was any intention on his part to cast aspersions on you except to point out that you guys have blinders on and a general intolerance toward differeing viewpoints. I don't think that not liking the strip clubs makes him suspicious just because everybody HAS to like the strip clubs that you like. I have friends in Morelia who swear by the street girls and I think they're a little batty, but I don't think less of them because they have a different outlook on mongering. I don't take it personally when they refuse to go with me to the clubs because they simply don't like them. To each his own.

What works for you is great, what works for him is great. As long as you're both getting what you want, there's no need to argue.

If I decide to head up north and don't immediately fall in love with the strip clubs, am I wrong for not liking what you like? Of course not. It's like what Wasted said about the steak. You may have your favorite restaurant and he may have his, but its a real ignorant thing to question a person's intelligence and honesty just because he doesn't like your favorite restaurant.

Now, I will go back to my little corner of the ISG.

[Mill Just]

Hey, why doesn't Jackson just make 20 seperate threads so that every poster has his own personal thread and nobody has to feel the need to confront eachother?

Seriously, without trying to flame, I think that you (Carlos and USB) do have a real contempt in your responses to those who have different perspectives than you. Differing viewpoints are seen as stupid and ignorant or as a direct attack against you and part of conspiracy to belittle the strip clubs in Monterrey.

What Master simply wrote was that he went to the strip clubs and didn't like them. He preffered the MP scene. I don't think there was any intention on his part to cast aspersions on you except to point out that you guys have blinders on and a general intolerance toward differeing viewpoints. I don't think that not liking the strip clubs makes him suspicious just because everybody HAS to like the strip clubs that you like. I have friends in Morelia who swear by the street girls and I think they're a little batty, but I don't think less of them because they have a different outlook on mongering. I don't take it personally when they refuse to go with me to the clubs because they simply don't like them. To each his own.

What works for you is great, what works for him is great. As long as you're both getting what you want, there's no need to argue.

If I decide to head up north and don't immediately fall in love with the strip clubs, am I wrong for not liking what you like? Of course not. It's like what Wasted said about the steak. You may have your favorite restaurant and he may have his, but its a real ignorant thing to question a person's intelligence and honesty just because he doesn't like your favorite restaurant.

Now, I will go back to my little corner of the ISG.

[Mill Just]

This brings up an interesting debate that I've been having with my mongering buddies: Strip Club with "benefits" vs straight-up casa de citas.

Whether it be in Monterrey or Morelia, while you may be getting FS with the chica for 1000 pesos, you also have to factor in drinks, privadas, your consumption, transportation costs, etc. However, in the casas de citas, you basically just pay for your time with the chica and other consumption, while encouraged, is not a must.

IMHO, its just about the same when it comes to the price you pay. It's just about personal preferences. Do you like the loud music and social atmosphere of the strip clubs or do you just want to get in and get out in a more relaxed atmosphere? I like 'em both...because when it comes to horny Mexicanas, It's all good....

Mill

Huhhhh??? 2000 pesos would get me at least 3-4 sessions with several hot strippers in MTY. However, if she were really, really, HOT, then I might consider paying 800-1000 pesos each, AND NO MORE.

Of course, at 800-1000 pesos, that would mean also having her on my own turf, and for twice the amount of time. If we permit recommendations to proliferate here with respect to overpaying, it will only mean a price increase for all of us. That, I will not tolerate. Everybody has to make a living, but I just can't sit idoly by and let this go...no matter how hard I try.

But, Misses is a nice facility if you need a discrete location, don't want a hotel environment, and are prepared to pay a comparatively high price for a good looking chica. Up to you...

I feel I've done my civic duty for the week. :-)

[MonterreyDude]

My friend, am going to contradict you in many aspects...
For starters you are not the same guy that I met a couple of years back.
You used to take out fabulous girls like Gina at the Pasarelas, Vanessa at the Matehuala, girls I didn't even consider cause I saw them above my capacity.
And then some I don't remember just right now that were just stunners.
Then, as both Mill Just and I have mentioned, at some point you did a total "about face" and instead of spreading out, you started spending too much time concentrating on girls that would take you no where.
I remember I used to joke that you had more novias than I did.
Remember?
Some where along the path you lost yourself.

USB says: "I am not the only monger in Monterrey that goes away from Monterrey frustrated. Mostly, the newbies visiting Monterrey leave frustrated because it is a complicated, expensive, and relatively difficult venue for mongering. "

I say: You leave Monterrey frustrated because of yourself. You are coming to Monterrey, and you have told me, with extra baggage, that you are spending too much and you are placing this way on top of your list during the trip.
(I have told you many times that you are staying way too long in Monterrey compared to your first trips.)
This is going to be a hard one, please excuse me my friend: I don't see frustrated newbies leaving Monterrey... I only see you leave frustrated.
Like I said, you are not the guy I met years ago who worked like a fine oiled machine getting the girls all to himself.
And I still insist, I blame your long stays in Monterrey for everything that is happening.

I CAN understand your frustration with me...My emotions and commentary vacilate with respect to my attitudes toward the Mexico experience. But, I don't mean any disrespect to those that have offered the advice, nor am I unappreciative of it, nor do I want them to stop giving the advise and making commentary here on the board. God knows the board is otherwise dead, and without the commentary we may have to do something "intellectual" like read a book or something.

I probably mis-spoke with respect to my comments regarding "ego." I believe that a more accurate assessment is more akin to "blind alegiance" to the Mexico experience rather than anything actually being motivated out of ego. My apologies for that misunderstanding. I will cover this issue in more detail later on in my...uhhh...thesis?

Compared to my amigos, I am every bit as successful as they, and some have had significantly more time on the ground to cultivate those relationships, so in that regard, I feel pretty good about my success rate in Monterrey comparatively.

First, I must offer my sincere appreciation to Carlos, without whose guidance over the years, I would never have been able to achieve the level of satisfaction I do have on the ground in Monterrey. I am truly greatful. He is a great friend.

But, that all having been sincerely said...

I am not the only monger in Monterrey that goes away from Monterrey frustrated. Mostly, the newbies visiting Monterrey leave frustrated because it is a complicated, expensive, and relatively difficult venue for mongering. Without the direct assistance from Carlos, WastedG, myself, and others, a newbie's chances of coming to Monterrey and enjoying one's self to the fullest extent are minimal. Not that we're indispensable, we're not, nor am I trying to pander to our own egos...but to a true newbie to the area, especially a first timer, non-spanish speaking, gringos, the logistics are complicated, as is the venue itself, including the proper strategies to use.

Not everybody leaves Monterrey with a clammering to return. Most, frankly, enjoy the venue, but realize that they must spend a lot of time on the ground to get good performance for a relatively high price...and they are right! If the newbies return, it is usually a result of the comradre we foster with them on the ground...'cause, there are better places to spend your money and your time for the ultimate experience that we all seek.

But, more importantly, even for a veteran of Monterrey, GFE experiences are still NOT widely available. So, even for a veteran that has the venue totally figured out. I have concluded that NO strategy can turn a sows ear into a silk purse. I travel to Monterrey because of logistics and because I like to visit with my amigos. I also have a favorita that I like seeing. Beyond those factors, I know first hand that I would be more satisfied in other venues.

So, if I seem to have an overly committed alegiance to my Angel Girl, it is simply that I prefer spending time with her because her GFE is a sure thing, less work, less expensive...Worldclass. At least, that is her performance with me. I strongly suspect your mileage may vary with respect to her performance, just as they all do based on chemistry, and one man's "junk" is another man's "treasure."

That having been said, the source of my frustration is that while I am just as successful as they in the Monterrey venue, I am simultaneously aware, because of my travels, that what I am experiencing when I'm there is not Worldclass mongering, but expensive and complicated mongering, better than the USA certainly, thankfully, but that ain't saying a whole lot in the Worldclass arena.

My other point is, and this is the point of my former frustration...When I modify my behavior in an effort to respect the advice of my handlers, mostly in an effort to assist them in proving that the Mexico venue really does have something superior to offer in comparion, and also to hope against all odds that maybe I am doing something wrong and there is "more" to be gleened from the Mexico experience in comparison to other Worldclass venues...

No matter what I seemingly do to modify my behaviors to the letter of their advise given, and in a manner that is totally and completely open to trying their recommendations, it is always judged as not quite enough, not quite right, not quite effective, not quite what is required to achieve this far superior service that is supposed to be such an intregal part of Mexico mongering.

That is the source of my seemingly, but unintended, confrontational former post. Even when I employ their methods in exactly the same manner as I personaly witness them implementing their own strategies, strategies that are sometimes directly contradictory to what they say is their preferred methodology, I am told that I am employing the wrong strategies, and that I just don't get "it."

But, these are stretegies they themselves utilize all the time, publicly displayed for all to see, apparently ones they themselves practice on a regular basis and believe will work fine for them. But, somehow, according to them, my implementation of those same methods is judged to be ineffectual, poorly executed, just not quite right, etc...

It is not "Mexico" per se, but USB that has the problem..they say. But, in reality, USB is as successful as they are. The difference is, USB is not satisfied because USB knows what more is available in the Worldclass arena, whereas mis amigos are blissfully ignorant that anything is even wrong with the Mexico venue in comparison.

I have concluded that their blind alegiance to the Mexico venue has them clammering for excuses why USB's methodology fails to yield larger numbers of GFE sessions for him, failing to meet his unrealistic expectations for Mexico, but USB's GFE sessions are just a prolific as theirs. It is more convenient for them, and psychologically comforting to espouse that USB is just not able to implement the necessary strategies that make Mexico, for them, the Worldclass mongering venue they dilusionally believe it is, and I "wish" it was.

Therefore, I have started to conclude that my amigos enjoy believing that no matter what methodology I adopt, it will never have their approval, not because it does or does not work, or because the Mexico venue is what it is, but more because they prefer to believe that USB is just not able to grasp the implementation of their superior methodology, and is mired in his own "unsuccessful" failed strategies...thereby supporting their dilusional alegiance to the Mexico venue as a good mongering destination.

But, the reality is, USB's funk is a direct result of comparing Mexico mongering to mongering on a Worldclass scale. They simply do not have the experience in other venues, and are so loyal to the Mexico experience that they prefer to point fingers at what they perceive as USB's failed strategies rather than admit that the venue itself is contributing to my overall frustrations.

Mill, with respect to GFE from only one girl at a time, that is simply not the case. Currently, I know of at least 4-5 girls that I can get good GFE from in Monterrey. But, that doesn't discount the superior performance of one in particular over the others, and my preference to be with her because of her "performance." I just prefer to spend time and money on one that matters to me instead of on others that don't.

Also, with respect to the numbers of good providers in foreign venues, it is an extremely low percentage of good GFE providers compared to the huge number of available chicas in Monterrey, so I sometimes complain about that. It just makes the search for satisfaction that much more work, and it makes Monterrey significantly more expensive than other venues where the availability of superior performance and providers is prolific in comparison.

[Mill Just]

No, I don't think there's any rush to portray you as a sad sack or have a competition to give the best advice- at least there isn't on my part.

Basically, to be fair:

YOU come on the ISG griping about how bad Mexico, and Monterrey in particular, is for getting GFE.
- I say that you are wrong and that there's a lot of the service that you crave to be had in Mexico. Then you come back with a million reasons why you don't want to change.

YOU gripe about how your Angel Girl is leaving you hanging.
- We tell you why, or at least give theories as to why, and you suddenly make an about face and say that she is the best and you have no complaints about her.

YOU say that your current tactics aren't yielding results and are open to others.
-We offer some suggestions, just to have them all shot down because suddenly your tactics and strategies are the best and yield the best results for you, all the while taking a sarcastic tone

And now, You come on the ISG and directly complain about the advice given from well-meaning brothers in the "hobby"

So......are you happy with the status quo? Do you want to yield better results? What is it? If everything's just peachy and in your heart you feel that you know best, great, but don't keep giving contradicting statements as to your feelings about Mexican mongering. Nobody has ever put you into a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation because everybody's given you basically the same advice. It's you who directly and indirectly ask for help and then blow off everything that doesn't strike your fancy. So, great, you know best and just leave it at that. What do we get from trying to help you? Nothing. We, who love Mexican chicas, just want you to get more of what's out there and not just get stuck with one chica at a time.

I understand the withdrawal period after coming back from Mexico. I used to go through it as well before I moved here, but things need to be more cut and dry with you because we all want to help a monger in distress, but when you suddenly stop being in distress and then claim that your strategies are the best and refuse to change them it just sorta pulls the rug out from under a fella.

I post in response to you because I see a bit of myself in you- a nice guy with good intentions, craving GFE and not getting as much of it as can be had. My intentions are not to inflate my own ego- I get enough of what I want to never even think about posting here. My intention in responding to your posts is to say that what you want is right at your fingertips and by employing a better strategy, you can get all the GFE you want. What I say is not the result of my rolling out of bad and saying to myself, "I know what I'll post now..." My conclusions come from 7+ years of actually being in country, seeing what works and doesn't work. Carlos is in the same boat...I can't believe that you haven't taken what Carlos says to heart more because, of us all, he is the one in the best position to KNOW what works here if you don't want to believe others. If I come off as egotistical, I don't care. I just read your posts and respond to them when you seem to be struggling for better service...and then I pull my hair out when you do a 180 and say that nothing's the matter.

In an anonymous forum, this is definitely the wrong place to try and stroke your own ego. If your strategies are the best how come you can only get GFE from one girl at a time when many of us get it quite frequently? Your argument is always that what you want is unique to you- it most definitely is not. In our cases, what we want is very similiar, but if your not getting it in abundance after spending so much time and money in Monterrey, then there has to be something wrong...and not with the chicas.

With all due respect, you don't really want to have a two or three or four way conversation...you just want people to confirm that what you do is the best...And when they don't, "well, I'll just agree with everything and keep doing the same because, in reality, I know best." You know what the definition of insanity is, right? -doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? If you wouldn't so often write about your displeasure with the Mexican venue, people wouldn't be so quick to try and help...notice I said the word HELP? Not preach or belittle, but HELP. Especially when you talk about your displeasue in the Mexican venue in the presence of men who are very, very happy with it.

Now, if you were to invest some of the [CodeWord140] and vinegar that you displayed just now to mongering in Mexico, you'd be beating the chicas off with a stick instead of just beating off in your office in Middle-America.

I now bow out gracefully...You know best and are the master...can you pass me your cookie recipe?

Have Fun,

Mill

"What we have here is a failure to communicate...."

Movie: Cool Hand Luke
Year: 1967 (Before most of you were probably born :-))))
Actor: Struther Martin

I love that line..."Whhhhat we hauuuve heauua is a faaaaluaa to comunicte."

Precocious One,

I will simply ask the question, and everyone else can form his own conclusions. Was I, or was I not, very well received by those chicas in Pasarelas? And if your answer be "YES," then I rest my case as to the effectiveness of my strategies and tactics. My amigos do not frequent Pasarelas. I have many options there, and all of them won over by being a "nice" guy versus a Cabron. I am still a Cabron inside, but I am devilishly nice to them, but in a sly way. You see, there are all kinds of Cabron, IMHO, and not just one-way to skin the proverbial cat. I like to think I use some degree of intellect to win those over that are worth a damn, and frankly, I could not care less about the rest of them.

It occurs to me that there is a friendly rivalry of advice givers on here, all competing to out do the other with respect to criticisms of USB's approach to finding his brand of GFE, ones that certainly mean well, mis amigos every one, but amigos that also seemingly enjoy believing that USB is a total failure with respect to the chicas of Monterrey within a P4P context, and more importantly, within the context of finding and obtaining GFE kinds of encounters that satisfy me.

Some enjoy the advice giving and prefer to see USB mired in a funk of ineffectual pussy-whipped confoundation, seemingly for the benefit of the advise giver's own inflated "Don Juanian" egos.

These accusations are not directed at anyone in particular, but it seems that no matter what USB does, Cabron or Nice Guy, consumate baker of cookies or not, nothing will ever finally win their individual respective approvals of USB's unique, tried and true tactics. They prefer instead to maintain their own dilusional superiority, even in the face of USB's over 1000 satisfied customers on five continents, verdad?

So, it is starting to occur to me that if I am damned if I do, and damned if I don't with respect to following the advice of all the advice givers, then I might as well discount most of their prolific recommendations because nothing I do will be correct, even if following their advice to the letter.

My advisors enjoy the course of criticism too much to ever admit that USB might understand what he has been doing all along, and that their advice is merely their own biased "opinion," having little or applicability to USB's specific preferences for USB's unique brand of GFE.

[Mill Just]

First, welcome to the ISG, P. One. I wish I could convince my mongering buddies to actually post here...

Second, I think there's a misunderstanding when I use the term, "Cabron." Being a cabron doesn't necessarily mean that you behave in a mean, degrading way towards the chicas. It doesn't mean acting aggresively or being rude and hateful. Being a cabron doesn't mean you walk into a club, throwing tables around and rubbing cookies into the faces of the chicas. Being a "cabron" means being a man's man; being a man capable of anything and one whose passions need the passion of a good chica. I have never mistreated or degraded a working chica i my life. A cabron is simply someone who can "conquistar" any number of women- just because he is so damn macho.

In the pro world, as well as the non-pro world, in Mexico, displays of testosterone are very well-received. A man with "huevos" is a very attractive thing for a Mexican chica.

Coming into Mexico is like stepping into a time machine, at least when it comes to social expectations, and being transported to America in the 1920's. How well would a metrosexual man with a tray of brownies be received in rural Indiana, 1919? Well, that's how well received one is in Mexico, 2007.

Now, this is not to say that some chicas may respond to the quiet, respectful, kind-hearted gentleman approach to mongering, but those chicas who respond in the right way may be less than 1%- thus severely reducing the available talent pool.

Being a quiet, respectful, kind-hearted gentleman is a great thing to be...in the real world. Mongers in the pay 4 play world, among the mexican bar chicas, need to have an edge.

Have fun,

Mill

[MonterreyDude]

Mill, one of the things I've told USB to stop doing is bringing cookies for the girls... main thing is to stop him from going around the clubs with a Tuperware.
They do not deserve them.
(Of course the cookies should be for me... Mill, USB's cookies are GRRReat!)
I have told him to change his image and be more the proverbial Cabron customer, the one that gets away with a lot with the girls.
That will need a lot of tweeking and adjusting.
And I still need to bang his head a little, make him see through the girls.. he still lacks the nack for it.
USB is still a sucker for a pretty face.... but there is hope!

Would it surprise you, though, that her actual boyfriend probably ate most of those chocolates while talking about the strange, older gringo that comes down from time to time and has a little "crush" on her?



Now, let me get this straight...your actually PAYING the girl to sleep with you? That sounds like mongering! It seems that if you have to pay, its not GFE after all, but more like really, really good mongering sessions...Your Angel Girl actually seems to be a pretty good sales women- making her pitch aimed directly at the weaknesses and desires of the client. It would be interesting to hear from other brother mongers out there who have been with your "Angel Girl" just to see if her approach is much different.

As Carlos said, money is what drives your whole deal; it's what's at the heart of your relationship. Take the money factor out and everything fades away. If you don't pay her, she won't be thinking that you're using her; she'll be out the door in search of someone who will. Like you said, though, "why tempt fate when your happy the way things are?" So, then if money is a driving factor in your relationship (something that is rightfully an issue with you), then how is it much different from any mongering relationship where a guy pays money for the attention and affection of a lovely young lady? Bastard or Nice guy means squat. All she wants is the Sor Juanas, but if she can get some nice gifts from a nice older guy in the process...Sorry, Oh yeah..."My girl is different..."

I'm just trying the sarcasm thing myself. It feels kinda good...

Mill

[Mill Just]

On another more controversial note, my sweetheart texted me today with her everylasting devotion, telling me that she missed me, that she loved me, and that she was enjoying the chocolates her Cabron Bastard had given her. I called her on her cell and talked to her for a while this afternoon, telling her that she was not worth a shit, and that I am fucking everything that walks back here in the States...That should make for pleasant memories when I return.

Don't take my sarcasm too seriously...just having fun :-)

Would it surprise you, though, that her actual boyfriend probably ate most of those chocolates while talking about the strange, older gringo that comes down from time to time and has a little "crush" on her?

Obviously, I realize that if I were to try to be cheap and not pay her, I would be tempting fate, because I also realize that she would evenutally believe I was using her.

I don't want to send such a message because I value her. So, we have agreed that I will "help" her (notice I said "HELP" her and not "PAY" her for services rendered), and with whatever amounts of money I can give her. These symantics are hers, words that make her feel more comfortable with our little arrangement, so she feels that we are not client and provider, but amigos romanticos, which I believe we are.

Most of the time, it's actually a pretty good amount of money, even by "going rate" per session standards, not because I am trying to pay her more than going rate in order to buy her loyalty, but because I really want to help her.

Now, let me get this straight...your actually PAYING the girl to sleep with you? That sounds like mongering! It seems that if you have to pay, its not GFE after all, but more like really, really good mongering sessions...Your Angel Girl actually seems to be a pretty good sales women- making her pitch aimed directly at the weaknesses and desires of the client. It would be interesting to hear from other brother mongers out there who have been with your "Angel Girl" just to see if her approach is much different.

As Carlos said, money is what drives your whole deal; it's what's at the heart of your relationship. Take the money factor out and everything fades away. If you don't pay her, she won't be thinking that you're using her; she'll be out the door in search of someone who will. Like you said, though, "why tempt fate when your happy the way things are?" So, then if money is a driving factor in your relationship (something that is rightfully an issue with you), then how is it much different from any mongering relationship where a guy pays money for the attention and affection of a lovely young lady? Bastard or Nice guy means squat. All she wants is the Sor Juanas, but if she can get some nice gifts from a nice older guy in the process...Sorry, Oh yeah..."My girl is different..."

I'm just trying the sarcasm thing myself. It feels kinda good...

Mill

[MonterreyDude]

That's it Mill:

"And with regard to Carlos' use of the term "clase," I believe in the Mexican context its more like personal dignity and not acting in a way that disgraces your personal dignity. A chica with no "clase" will be all over a guy, basically like a lap dog. A chica with "clase" will make you earn her affection over a period of time."

Right on the nosey...

I think the service you want is readily available in Mexico. I get it all the time and never suffer from a lack of sex, dinner companions or dates.

To use terms that Carlos will surely understand and if you don't, let me know. Mexican women, especially of the socio-economic level of most working girls, don't want a mandilon (pussy-whipped, for lack of a better term); they want a guy who is a bit of a cabron. A guy will fit into the macho stereotype that many women find attractive here. Even wealthier, more refined women have a general distaste for guys that aren't "real" men.

In my case, the little gifts and thoughtful gestures got me used more than loved. It wasn't until I became more of a cabron that I started hauling in the GFE chicas. Sure, before, as Miller the Mandilon I got decent sessions, but Miller the Cabron got GFE-a-plenty.

Part of being the cabron is to make sure that every chica you're with knows that she is probably not the only one. Mexican working girls do get lazy, but only if you let them or only if they see no real reason to give you good service.

And with regard to Carlos' use of the term "clase," I believe in the Mexican context its more like personal dignity and not acting in a way that disgraces your personal dignity. A chica with no "clase" will be all over a guy, basically like a lap dog. A chica with "clase" will make you earn her affection over a period of time.

And referring to legit girlfriends in Mexico- yes, I've had quite a few. Usually, when I find a "legit" girlfriend I take a break from mongering. But non-pro Mexicanas can be very mercenary too. I was recently dating a very hot non-pro chica (5ft2, 36 c chest and very little body fat), but she was pushing things way too fast, trying to get married and have kids. Just from my own personal experiences, I've found many legit chicas way too eager to latch onto a gringo and get out of their personal situations. YMMV. Working girls, on the other hand, are very blatant with what they want- and that makes them a lot easier to deal with. But I definitely hope to settle down with a Mexicana some day...just let me get the craziness and lust out of my system first.

Mill

[Mill Just]

She has regularlly told me she wants to find a man that is faithful to her. I guess she doesn't really know what she wants then.

Because, if all women wanted Cabrones, all the legitimate girls out there would be looking for men who screw around on them. And that, IMHO, is not a behavior I have ever witnessed, not from any member of the female sex, regardless of culture and/or nationality.

Therein lies the tragic dichotomy of Mexican women living in a machista society. Every woman wants a loyal, faithful man who will support her and share in the chores, etc...but when they find a man like that, they feel that there must be something wrong with them, they don't seem like men at all; There father's weren't like that, neither their grandfathers nor the husbands and boyfriends of their friends. It is a strange pill to swallow if you come from a different background. All the married men that I know in Mexico cheat regularly on their wives; many keep mistresses, with their love children, on the side. I even know a few non-pro girls who say flat out that they expect their men to cheat on them and when the idea of a good, homebody of a man is brought up they'll also flat-out say, "Ay que aburrido!" All the chicas want a romantic, caring man...but our idea of romantic and caring often appears stifling, boring and less than manly to them.

Of course, this is not saying that all Mexican women are the same, but enough are like this to certainly see a pattern.

And another thing about "clase:" The chicas having clase and not being willing to act in a way that may constitute begging to a chica, is what prevents you from getting that GFE right off the bat from a chica. They may have sex with you, but their affection has to be earned. It is an odd chica indeed, and one deserving of some level of suspicion, who will give of herself so freely after just one salida.

Mill