Monterrey - Mill Just's Reports

[Mill Just]

I think the service you want is readily available in Mexico. I get it all the time and never suffer from a lack of sex, dinner companions or dates.

To use terms that Carlos will surely understand and if you don't, let me know. Mexican women, especially of the socio-economic level of most working girls, don't want a mandilon (pussy-whipped, for lack of a better term); they want a guy who is a bit of a cabron. A guy will fit into the macho stereotype that many women find attractive here. Even wealthier, more refined women have a general distaste for guys that aren't "real" men.

In my case, the little gifts and thoughtful gestures got me used more than loved. It wasn't until I became more of a cabron that I started hauling in the GFE chicas. Sure, before, as Miller the Mandilon I got decent sessions, but Miller the Cabron got GFE-a-plenty.

Part of being the cabron is to make sure that every chica you're with knows that she is probably not the only one. Mexican working girls do get lazy, but only if you let them or only if they see no real reason to give you good service.

And with regard to Carlos' use of the term "clase," I believe in the Mexican context its more like personal dignity and not acting in a way that disgraces your personal dignity. A chica with no "clase" will be all over a guy, basically like a lap dog. A chica with "clase" will make you earn her affection over a period of time.

And referring to legit girlfriends in Mexico- yes, I've had quite a few. Usually, when I find a "legit" girlfriend I take a break from mongering. But non-pro Mexicanas can be very mercenary too. I was recently dating a very hot non-pro chica (5ft2, 36 c chest and very little body fat), but she was pushing things way too fast, trying to get married and have kids. Just from my own personal experiences, I've found many legit chicas way too eager to latch onto a gringo and get out of their personal situations. YMMV. Working girls, on the other hand, are very blatant with what they want- and that makes them a lot easier to deal with. But I definitely hope to settle down with a Mexicana some day...just let me get the craziness and lust out of my system first.

Mill

So, doesn't "clase" mean the same thing as "class" in English? If not, Carlos and/or Mill, please make the distinction. Actually, MillJust might have a better grasp of how that word might correlate to an English equivalent, him being from the US and having all that US born and bread context to draw upon.

I use that word to describe my "J" girl at Prestige (not to be confused with WastedG's Lady J). When I told my "J" girl she had "clase" I meant it to mean she has "class," and according to my WEBSTER's AMERICAN/SPANISH Dictionario, it has equivalent meaning to the Spanish word "clase." She seemed impressed with my telling her that. At least, she did not act as though I hold just told her she stinks.

But, I have visited Mexico long enough to realize that true definitions of translated words, even words with similar root construction based on the original latin, have significant influence upon them from Mexican sociological influences that make the true meaning in Spanish different than what we would interpret it to be in the US.

"Class," for me, means that a girl has a refined look and manner about her that makes her appear to be of a higher social position. Meaning her choice of clothes, her hair style, her make-up, her demeanor, the way she stands, etc...all make her appear to have a refinement that is usually indicative of the wealthier, higher classes.

With respect to my wanting a "girlfriend," I can agree with your assessment if you want to define it as in the "SEA" sense, where a girl will latch onto you and stick around, be available for your every whim, and be appreciative of the opportunity to spend time with you with little more no regard for overall cost. Then, yes, I agree that a "girlfriend" is what I am looking for...I call it sincere GFE.

My problem is...I realize I am trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear in most cases, looking for sincere GFE among a bunch of hookers in Mexico. I think I may have found it to an extent with Angel Girl, and maybe even to an possibly lesser extent with both Pasarelas girls, although it is too soon to tell with the Pasarelas girls.

I guess you are both telling me that I CAN NOT get that in Mexico. Of course, I already knew that. I can not find in Mexico, what I know first hand I can easily find in Asia, like falling off a log.

I am suprised you guys would admit such things about Mexico. Uhmmm...???

[Mill Just]

With all due respect, Uno, I think I have you pegged and let me know if I'm 100%.

Most of us see GFE as passionate sex with a chica who really seems passionate about the sex and foreplay, etc...(among other attributes). Uno sees GFE as all of the above characteristics, but that the chica in the GFE actually BE his girlfriend. Am I right? Do I win a prize?

Whatever the case, have fun. Sometimes an illusion is just as sweet as the reality. I just can't for the life of me see how an experience so tense and full of jealousies and uncertainties on your part can be rewarding. What with all the drama, it's like having a real girlfriend. I like to live the dream and not just go from one frustrating reality to another with so many potential ups and downs...but c'est la vie. To each his own and more power to ya.

On a side note, I have a monger friend who stops down in Morelia several times a year and we always share war stories and grab a handful of chicas (long time lurker on this board who I will soon force at gunpoint to become a contributing member). He is constantly going on and on about Southeast Asia, much like some of you guys do.

Personally, SEA holds 0 interest for me. I don't care how easy the girls are or how accomodating they are, I refuse to travel 24hrs by plane, on the other side of the world to hook up with a frying pan-faced, broomstick bodied Asian girl. Give me a succulent latina over a matchstick-looking Asian any day of the week.

Everything you want, by way of chicas can be had in Mexico. You just have to know how to play the game. Mexico really has the most realistic GFE- complete with all the power plays, head trips and drama of having a real girlfriend....But 7 years and counting and I'm still loving it!

If this is a dream, please don't let me ever pinch myself...

Mill

[El Cabron 007]

When I was a newbie to MTY, it killed me to see a new girl join the club. One of my first questions to her would always be "How long are you planning to work this line?". Every single one said '1 year" while she saves for this and saves for that. Every single one had a son to feed and a sick mother.

I still see those girls. Hardened pros and leaders of the pack. I wonder if my days-counting method is different than theirs. A day is a day, right? Does Mexico have a different calendar than what we use?

"S" told me she wants to buy a laptop because she want to get out of the club business. That was over a year ago. They spend more on cell phones than it would cost to buy a a laptop. Devany said she wanted to buy a house. Judith said she owed taxes. She's back in the business after she was out for almost 4 months. I now find out she simply could not work in MTY so she now goes to Laredo. "P" wants me to take her back to the US with me. She is getting her passport and will apply for visa next time I'm in town. "X" wanted to be transported.....

Do I care for them? Yes. But Carlos can rest assured now that I have given up on establishing a non-profit organization to get all these girls out of this line of work. Yes, I still have the email.

Wasted

Man, if I had a peso for every working girl who was going to quit the biz, I'd be able to buy my own chica bar. I haven't met a working girl yet who wasn't quitting the biz within a few months. If these chicas don't get addicted to the lifestyle, they certainly get addicted to the money. When they eventually retire they find that they are back in the real world with no real work skills, little or no education and a social stigma that haunts them; they usually unretire the first time they get their 450 peso salary for their 80 hour work week.
Mill

[Mill Just]

Anyway, her mother is part of the reason she works in the bar. The other is her son, and her desire to make a good life for him. She is saving to buy a house, and start a business, something separate from the clubs, and I believe she is getting closer to doing it, supposedly only 2-3 months away from buying a house closer in to El Centro MTY.

She had told me that her dream is to quit the bar. She is not one of these girls that MillJust refers to, a girl that is addicted to the "life." I have found that there are two kinds of girls in that biz, the ones that MillJust refers to, and the ones that have to work in that biz to get anywhere in their lives. It is their ONLY option being females in Mexico, IF they want to have anything.

Man, if I had a peso for every working girl who was going to quit the biz, I'd be able to buy my own chica bar. I haven't met a working girl yet who wasn't quitting the biz within a few months. If these chicas don't get addicted to the lifestyle, they certainly get addicted to the money. When they eventually retire they find that they are back in the real world with no real work skills, little or no education and a social stigma that haunts them; they usually unretire the first time they get their 450 peso salary for their 80 hour work week.

A good test, if you were so inclined, is to take your girl under your wing and give her some money each week so that she could live a decent life without working at the bars. In other words, allow her to retire. In the long run you'd save money because the chica would essentially be "all yours" and you could have her whenever you come to town- No more salidas or chica drinks or taxis to the clubs- you'd have everything at your whim. 600 bucks a month would put her smack dab in the middle class and be plenty to raise a child. (And those 600 dollars would save you money from the usual 1400 dollars that you would spend in a week, club-hopping and bar fining chicas that don't fit your needs.) However, If you would come to town without advance warning, I would hazard a guess that you would still catch her working at the clubs- but I could be wrong.

Anyway, good luck with your Angel Girl. I guess her real motivations are immaterial as long as you're getting the service you like from her. Keep us abreast of the situation even though I know how your story will eventually play out. Whatever the case, have fun while it lasts.

Keep in mind, though, that it's often dangerously faulty logic to take the , "Yes, but my girl is different.." approach to mongering.

Mill

[Mill Just]

I'm gonna run for cover while I say this .... out of all of you guys, I think the one who understands the girls the best is .... drum roll ..... simple little ... me.

haha .... but seriously, putting way too much thoughts into any of this will give you, me, them, the neighbors .... nothing but a headache. The best attitude I found so far has been to hang out, have fun, enjoy yourself and if at the end of the night you get to pop one or 2 or even 4 (wink) then you move on and do what comes naturally the next day.

Why complicate the hell out of it all? Enjoy yourself and let the chips fall where they may.

Then again, that's just my opinion.

Wasted

Exactly. Why all the complications of "does she really have feelings for me?" Just have fun, don't put yourself into dumb situations and....GET LAID. That's all there is to it. Kinda easy when you spell it out.

Mill

[Mill Just]

MJ and Carlos: You guys can congratulate each other all you want about how ell you understand the local working girls, but IMO, each of you have flawed M.O.'s: You both think hookers are beneath you, and give them 0 respect. While I will freely admit that most are exactly as you peg them, there certainly are plenty that don't deserve your scorn.

Wow, there was nothing ever said on the ISG more incorrect than what you just said. I absolutely do not think these girls are beneath me. And to be honest, it's really unfair to make a statement like that when you don't even know me.

This board is for mongering advice when travelling abroad. And one valuable piece of advice is to not get too emotionally attached to these girls because the vast majority, as you said yourself, are con artists and professional users. Their jobs require them to be that way. Their future at their club depends on them getting as much $$$$ from us as possible. And regardless of how charming you see yourself, the first thing that any working girl sees when you walk in is $$$$$ and the possibility of more $$$$$$$. Like I said earlier, when you come down every so often for 3 or 5 days at a time, you can afford to fool yourself into thinking that the chicas really like you. We, the locals, know better.

If the dillusion is part of the game and reward for you, then so be it. Great. More power to you and have a great time. However, I've seen enough of our brother mongers get torn up emotionally and financially by chicas who were real women and had "real" feelings for them; they were one of the good ones, one of the ones just doing it because their kids were sick, father was dying, etc...

I have no reason to scorn any chica. Quite on the contrary! Telling the truth about a group of people is not scorning them, its merely telling the truth. If I say that most mechanics overcharge for simple proceedures, I'm not saying that all are guilty; nor would I be saying that they are somehow beneath me for trying to make a few extra bucks. I'd just be giving you a heads up for when you bring your car in for a repair.

My goal here is just to let the newbie and more naive monger know that they absolutely have to be on their toes. Most working girls in the US are done and out the door; the Mexican working girls are more personable and that leads many a newbie into thinking that what they share is legitimate and beyond the bounds of normal hooker-client relations.

Am I saying that EVERY working chica is a heartless scumbag? Of course not. I would even say that none are scumbags- they are just doing what they have to do to put food on the table. It is important when dealing with a culture different from your own to err on the side of caution. Getting too personal with a working girl will ALMOST always have a bad result in the long run. That's not an opinion based on my personal experiences; that's a fact based on reality.

Don't trust a single working girl. When I say that, I'm playing the game of percentages. Most working girls have a deadly combination of being very mercenary and extremely charming. People put their guards down when they go on mini mongering vacations, but putting your guard down over the long haul will almost always turn out bad.

Again, to make things clearer, I make no aspersions as to the humanity of working chicas in Mexico. Being on your toes and slow to trust does not mean that you feel superior; it means that you're being a realist in places where girls are paid money to spend time with and give affection to strangers. For example, Porker, if you came up to me and suddenly wanted to be my best friend, I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you- but that doesn't mean that you aren't a good guy; it just means that a certain air of suspicion is necessary to protect me and my ends because I don't REALLY know you just as you don't REALLY know a chica just because you've had sex with her and she's made you feel all gushy inside.

Being a sucker doesn't make you more respectful of the chicas- it just makes you a sucker.

[Mill Just]

I also think that whether girls are mothers has a huge effect on whether they have been softened up by motherhood. They may not be as tight, but generally, they seem a lot more affectionate once they have had a baby and left their immaturity behind.

Actually, I've almost always seen that in my experience the best GFE are from chicas without children. The mothers among the group, rightfully, have a burning desire to put food on the table for their kids. A chica sans children and with no crucial need to get paid or get home early is more likely to actually get to know you and spend a good amount of time with you (The chica who accompanied me to Ixtapa is a working girl without children, thus her time is completely her own). Also, a mother may have a husband/boyfriend in the picture or may still have a desire to get back together with the baby's daddy- thus further limiting her emotional comittment to you. I've gotten invitations to stay the weekend at the houses of these working chicas without kids. I've never received such inviations, obviously, from chicas with kids. A working girl without kids has nothing to lose by spending time with an unknown foreigner. A mother, on the other hand, has everything to lose.

Again, though, this may all come down to the difference in age and lifestyle. Uno, you are an older and obviously more conservative gentleman than I am. I can see how a girl that comes off as loud and brash may turn you off. But these girls with the "Fuck The World" attitude actually turn out to be the best GFE providers in the long run. Of course: YMMV greatly.

Again I must disagree somewhat with your assesments; I think most working chicas 18-30 are similar in the lifestyle they share. The fast-paced club lifestyle is addictive and when not working, they enjoy other high-adrenaline activities.

As for me, I'd much rather go out clubbing with these chicas after a romp in the hay than stay in my apartment, making brownies or some such activity. (of course, all the while, as UNO said, treating them like real and valuable women) And it seems to work for me because I very often get the GFE that I want within 2 "sessions", even when they are new chicas.

But to each his own. Remember, though, that there aren't too many mature, stable, conservative hookers.

Have Fun,

Mill

[MonterreyDude]

Mill
I have read thru the course of time your posts and I think I posted this some time back, that you ARE a local Morelia boy now and you know how the girls tick
I read no biterness towards them, except a little coldness in the way you write... maybe more "detached" than cold.
But there is one thing I read somewhere from you that I support 100%:
Mill is local to his city (as Iam to Monterrey) so the girls treat us locals 200% differently as opposed to a monger that comes to town for a 3-5 day stretch.
Same thing, WE handle them differently cause WE KNOW how they really are.
3-5 days are no match to see them on a weekly basis.
I think that us knowing them quite well, makes us write differently, but not in a bitter fashion, but always watching out for the Tricks in the Book they would like to lay on us, but we don't let them.

No, Porker, I have absolutely no resentment towards the working girls. On the contrary, I have a great deal of respect for them and how they are able to do what they do- I have several whom I consider friends. However, never confuse being bitter with being a realist. These girls do, almost 100% of the time, have certain personality disorders that make them generally undependable and unstable. They are, as any experienced monger will attest to, habitual users; users of people, drugs, etc...

I have never, ever been burnt or jilted or scammed by a working girl (aside from occasionally being stood up - which is somewhat normal with club girls). As an American living in Mexico for the last 7+ years I have been around these girls long enough to know how they think and why they do what they do- and it's not a pretty picture. I've also seen too many wide-eyed, overly romantic mongers get eaten alive by these girls. They often see the smiley, perfumed, manicured American as an easy target; just bat their eyelashes and grab their thighs and the gringos will hand over their wallets to them. That's how they think- regardless of how much you want to romanticize or overly idealize them or their actions. Sorry.

I'm extremely happy living here and mongering my ass off. I get great service almost all the time and have nothing to be bitter about. Actually, I used to sign off on my posts as "The Happiest Man Alive" and that's still the case. But just because one is happy, doesn't mean that he has his eyes closed to the world around him. You may visit for a few days at a time, every so often and can afford to idealize things, but I live here and have to live in the world of reality.

Ask Carlos, as the only actual Mexican here, if I'm off in my assesment of working girls. He is in the best position to say if what I say is based in reality or based out of being jilted.

My advice to all mongers coming to Mexico is the following: Love them all within the confines of their work/service, but trust NONE of them.

See, they are working to get as much as they can from us. When we have nothing to offer them , they disappear just as if our preferred chicas stopped having sex with us, we would disappear from their lives.

When you realize this and come to the girls from a position of strength, the girls respect you more and you'll get much better service from them. No Mexican, pro or not, likes a mandilon.

The Happiest Man Alive,
Mill

[Mill Just]

MJ, many of your posts rang true, while others ring quite hollow. You seem very jaded about your dealings with Mexican bar girls. I know Carlos and his perspective and know his perspective of working girls. YOUR persepctive, though, sounds a little bitter, like you were jilted on several occasions.

No, Porker, I have absolutely no resentment towards the working girls. On the contrary, I have a great deal of respect for them and how they are able to do what they do- I have several whom I consider friends. However, never confuse being bitter with being a realist. These girls do, almost 100% of the time, have certain personality disorders that make them generally undependable and unstable. They are, as any experienced monger will attest to, habitual users; users of people, drugs, etc...

I have never, ever been burnt or jilted or scammed by a working girl (aside from occasionally being stood up - which is somewhat normal with club girls). As an American living in Mexico for the last 7+ years I have been around these girls long enough to know how they think and why they do what they do- and it's not a pretty picture. I've also seen too many wide-eyed, overly romantic mongers get eaten alive by these girls. They often see the smiley, perfumed, manicured American as an easy target; just bat their eyelashes and grab their thighs and the gringos will hand over their wallets to them. That's how they think- regardless of how much you want to romanticize or overly idealize them or their actions. Sorry.

I'm extremely happy living here and mongering my ass off. I get great service almost all the time and have nothing to be bitter about. Actually, I used to sign off on my posts as "The Happiest Man Alive" and that's still the case. But just because one is happy, doesn't mean that he has his eyes closed to the world around him. You may visit for a few days at a time, every so often and can afford to idealize things, but I live here and have to live in the world of reality.

Ask Carlos, as the only actual Mexican here, if I'm off in my assesment of working girls. He is in the best position to say if what I say is based in reality or based out of being jilted.

My advice to all mongers coming to Mexico is the following: Love them all within the confines of their work/service, but trust NONE of them.

See, they are working to get as much as they can from us. When we have nothing to offer them , they disappear just as if our preferred chicas stopped having sex with us, we would disappear from their lives.

When you realize this and come to the girls from a position of strength, the girls respect you more and you'll get much better service from them. No Mexican, pro or not, likes a mandilon.

The Happiest Man Alive,
Mill

[MonterreyDude]

Pay attention to what Mill says here:

"It's possible that you may find the pearl amongst the swine, but the search will drive you mad and take any joy away from mongering."

I have said almost the very same here in posts long past.
Mill is quite right.....

I think, at least to the experienced monger, just plain, logistics are preferred and these theory sessions are for the relative newbie. But every honest discourse is of value.





To be honest, without knowing you first-hand, I think there is an element of genuine affection for the girl when you find one that you like. I think you do indeed fall for these girls and that's what makes the GFE for you- legit feelings for a chica that makes you think that she has legit feelings for you. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think all of us have fallen for a working girls against our better judgement at one time or another. But I think you're being a bit disingenuous when you say that you only care about the service she provides you when that GFE that you crave is totally dependant on the affection and "feelings" that you have for that chica that seems to be corresponding with those feelings for you. Again, there's nothing wrong with any one of our personal mongering styles or pathologies. Whatever floats your boat is fine...

However, the only thing that you are guilty of is that you perhaps ascribe characteristics to these chicas that they simply don't have. "Loyalty, Affectionate, Sincere feelings, Respectful" are characteristics that working chicas don't have. It's all about the game for them and when they can't see a way to win that game anymore, they just stop playing. Despite any sort of "Pretty Woman" idealism that we may have, nice women don't become hookers and the nice women that may occasionally become working girls, don't stay nice for long.

It's possible that you may find the pearl amongst the swine, but the search will drive you mad and take any joy away from mongering. Instead, have a laugh with the girls- as many as possible. Don't be loyal to them, because they won't be loyal to you. And don't ascribe to them the same noble feelings that you may have in your heart. Then you will be free. You'll still get the GFE...and a lot more of it. You just won't have the hassle of dealing with the negative side of their personalities.

Mill

[Mill Just]

another thing that may influence whether one gets gfe or not is the age and disposition of the monger. a younger guy just has a lot more in common with the chicas and that allows a certain area of compatibilty to develop outside of the regular business relationship.

i'm no teenager by any means, but i would assume that i'm younger than a lot of guys who post here. i still like loud hip-hop music, club-hopping all night and racing the car down empty streets at 5am while getting a bj from a club girl. i like the loud lifestyle that many of these chicas are addicted to. maybe 15 years from now, i won't. i will lose one of the aspects that i share in common with the chicas. then, i'll only have the money to keep them with me; thus, severly limiting the quality of gfe i would be able to get from these 20-something chicas. by the time i get old, i'll just have money, a few good stories to tell them....and, of course, i big, giant weenie .

sorry for the lack of focus in this post. i was just noticing my first gray hairs this afternoon and i realized that i'll be too old for these girls in the not-too-distant future.

and i do agree that my living in mexico is a big advantage for me. but, with all the visits to monterrey, you could also be classified as a local. and i would hazard to guess that in an average year, you spend more time in the clubs of monterrey than i do in the clubs in morelia.

but if i overstepped my bounds, sorry. if you're happy with your current situation, then nothing needs to be changed. just keep on having fun...

mill

i don't mean to argue with your conclusions, which i believe are quite valid for you. but, my former post was to illustrate what the average gringo visitor to mexico can anticipate realistically based on my own experiences, and to report what i find even as a relatively frequent visitor to mexico, one that knows at least where to look for the vegetable patch.

and, frankly, i don't even believe that their percentages, those of average occassional visitors, will yield a success rate as high as mine, 20%, because i do have the opportunity to at least revist the venue relatively often in comparison.

i can see where it's possible for you to have better statistics than what i quoted, but for the most part, were i to apply such statistical probabilities to the average reader here, and to suggest that they might have such a rate of success, will only set them up for higher expectations and certain disappointment.

you have a huge advantage living in mexico, where you have the time, the patience, and the significantly reduced cost associated with cultivating and maintaining those gfe encounters.

this is the source of my frustration. when i find good gfe girls, i am aggravated when, after all the effort made, i lose my ability to influence them by being away from the venue. my absence contributes to their overall demise. it takes so much work to find and cultivate the best plants, that i am totally and completely frustrated when i return only to find that the skunks have dug them up, and rep001tered them to the wind.

my point in comparing mexico to other venues is that you do not need to live in those other venues in order to have the gfe encounters because the girls themselves have different attitudes right out of the box. there is no having to mold them into your preferred gfe over time. total abject poverty shapes them for us before we ever get there. those laws of short demand and a huge abundant supply make the harvest so much easier. it's amazing the effect total abject poverty has on the way in which the girls relate to their prospective benefactors from the get-go in these foreign venues, the pi, thailand, indonesia, colombia, and even costa rica and the dr.

i have no doubt that your success rates are valid mj, it's just that most of the gringos coming to mexico, probably the majority of our readers, will have a very hard road when it comes to finding our brand of gfe without considerable time being invested, myself included. we simply do not have the time on the ground, or the money to make it happen with such painstaking precision.

with respect to tossing girls aside, you're absolutely right. i first bar fined my angel girl back in 2005, and after the first time, she really didn't impress me. frankly, i thought at the time that she was relatively good in comparison, but i just sensed a hardness in her demeanor that suggested she was perhaps a little too ripe. it required a two year lapse of time for the stars to reallign, and for me to actually discover her hidden talents.

you're absolutely right, some of the girls don't exhibit evidence on the surface that they might be decent gfe candidates. and, that is where you have your advantage over most of us by living there 24/7. we simply don't have the time to divide the wheat from the chaffe with any kind of reliable methodology. and, as you so accurately pointed out too, the attitudes of the girls change as their profession spoils them by the day.

so, it's so important that you harvest them when they are ripe, not before, not when they are still green and and sour, but at just the appropriate time, before they turn to mush and/or go to seed. with your being on the ground 24/7, you can also cultivate them, keeping an eye on them constantly, perhaps even shaping them into your desired ultimate result.

the window of opportunity is very narrow, and being on the ground 24/7 provides you the opportunity to plant the seed, water, cultivate, prune, keep the vultures away, and harvest them just at the appropriate times.

the rest of us are like raccoons invading the corn patch, taking whatever is revealed as we peal away the husks, worms and all. :-)))))))))))

[Mill Just]

It's simply that the girls of Mexico conduct themselves with little attention paid to providing GFE encounters.

Not true at all, my friend. I have GFE coming out my ears. My statistics are now as follows: 80% GFE and 20% regular service, but it took me time to cultivate these GFE's. You are being a bit unrealistic if you expect to come to town and get these chicas to open up to you completely just because you're a swell guy. Mexicanas don't work that way.

A Mexicana is like a crop; You have to plant the seeds and cultivate the land over a period of time before you can reap the harvest. You can't just plop in a seed and immediately pull out an ear of corn- even if you're the greatest farmer ever. But when you cultivate the land properly, there's no finer tasting harvest...

I just came back a few days ago from a trip to Ixtapa with a club chica. We spent 4 days together on the beach and humped all day long. Great, perfect GFE. But this chica started out as a cold fish that was purely a trophy fuck because she was so hot. In the beginning she was a clock-watcher, one-pop-and-out-the-door hustler. She warmed up over time and now she is the best. 4 Days of humping in the sun=0 pesos. My only expenses were just the usual vacation expenses that I would've spent anyway (i.e. food, hotel, entertainment, travel).

Now, if you were me, you would've tossed her aside for lacking the charm necessary for GFE and you would've lost out on a great provider. Drawing on your comparison to "real" non-pro women. How many women are completely into you from the first moment they meet you? Unless you're Brad Pitt, not many. You need to woo women over time and get them to lower their defenses- working girls are no different.

I don't mean this to sound confrontational, because it's definitely not meant in that spirit. On the contrary, you seem to be a good guy, who for the time and money invested, should be reaping much better service. It's not the chicas that won't loosen up, it's your approach. You need to be more of a bastard like Carlos or Wasted (kidding...sort of )

[Mill Just]

IMHO, these strategy discussions are much more beneficial to the mongering hords than play by play reports about how many times we may have cum, or cum splashed reports about how hot this or that particular girl is.

I think, at least to the experienced monger, just plain, logistics are preferred and these theory sessions are for the relative newbie. But every honest discourse is of value.

But, for some reason, when I articulate that I am pleased with my selections, it is immediately construed that I have fallen hopelessly and madly in love with a hooker, that I have some kind of expectation for a future with her, that I am planning to settle down with her, etc...

To be honest, without knowing you first-hand, I think there is an element of genuine affection for the girl when you find one that you like. I think you do indeed fall for these girls and that's what makes the GFE for you- legit feelings for a chica that makes you think that she has legit feelings for you. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think all of us have fallen for a working girls against our better judgement at one time or another. But I think you're being a bit disingenuous when you say that you only care about the service she provides you when that GFE that you crave is totally dependant on the affection and "feelings" that you have for that chica that seems to be corresponding with those feelings for you. Again, there's nothing wrong with any one of our personal mongering styles or pathologies. Whatever floats your boat is fine...

However, the only thing that you are guilty of is that you perhaps ascribe characteristics to these chicas that they simply don't have. "Loyalty, Affectionate, Sincere feelings, Respectful" are characteristics that working chicas don't have. It's all about the game for them and when they can't see a way to win that game anymore, they just stop playing. Despite any sort of "Pretty Woman" idealism that we may have, nice women don't become hookers and the nice women that may occasionally become working girls, don't stay nice for long.

It's possible that you may find the pearl amongst the swine, but the search will drive you mad and take any joy away from mongering. Instead, have a laugh with the girls- as many as possible. Don't be loyal to them, because they won't be loyal to you. And don't ascribe to them the same noble feelings that you may have in your heart. Then you will be free. You'll still get the GFE...and a lot more of it. You just won't have the hassle of dealing with the negative side of their personalities.

Mill

[El Cabron 007]

You should write a book dude. I will be the 1st one to buy it. Call it "The Gringo Effect" or how about "I'm in love with a stripper"?

Well-said MJ, as always.

Wasted.

I wish there were some sort of graph that would draw a correlation between the loss of interest from a bar girl and the lack of benefit she gets from knowing that customer. With or without the graphic demonstration there is a definite relation between how good a service a chicas gives and how much she thinks she can benefit from giving that good service (and vice versa).



...but I think you've come up with the answer yourself...

There are so many ways, aside from direct payment, that a girl can get benefit from being with a nice, older gringo gentleman. Moreso than a lack of passion from knowing eachother too long or being "married too long," she is probably slowly realizing that she does not, and probably will not ever, benefit from knowing you as much as she thought she would. When a working chica realizes this, her "loyalty" to you starts to wane and you get blown off (not in the good way ) more and more. Then you lose interest in her for not providing the GFE. When all is said and done, you've lost a good provider and you have to start all over again. That's why its important to learn how to play these chicas and learn what motivates them. You must always keep them on their feet and never, ever allow them to think that you are exclusively theirs.

Sad realization, yes, but very liberating for you in the long run. Believe me when I say that the whole "exclusivety" thing will just ruin a good club for you. There were a couple of good clubs here in Morelia that I took off my list just because my "exclusive girlfriends" ruined my chance of ever getting laid there (without a war) again.

Mill

[Mill Just]

But, guys, frankly, because "Angel Girl" is making less and less of an effort lately, I believe she takes my loyalty for granted, just as Carlos and MJ warned me would happen, an eventuality that I also expected to happen. My affections for her have always been 100% legitimate, and I show her in so many ways.

But, she has been full of excuses lately, and seemingly less attentive. Perhaps we have been married too long, and "necesito devorsiarme." For example, she has the time to attend Taboo with mis amigos, until 4am after work, but she doesn't have the time to go with me after work, or to allocate time for a guy that has more or less given her exclusive rights to his business in the club. She is blowing it.

I wish there were some sort of graph that would draw a correlation between the loss of interest from a bar girl and the lack of benefit she gets from knowing that customer. With or without the graphic demonstration there is a definite relation between how good a service a chicas gives and how much she thinks she can benefit from giving that good service (and vice versa).

But, when I start to think about why she would do it, and I consider the money side of the equation, it does not make sense. How does a girl profit from establishing an exclusive situation when there is little or NO money involved in our relationship outside the club.

...but I think you've come up with the answer yourself...

There are so many ways, aside from direct payment, that a girl can get benefit from being with a nice, older gringo gentleman. Moreso than a lack of passion from knowing eachother too long or being "married too long," she is probably slowly realizing that she does not, and probably will not ever, benefit from knowing you as much as she thought she would. When a working chica realizes this, her "loyalty" to you starts to wane and you get blown off (not in the good way ) more and more. Then you lose interest in her for not providing the GFE. When all is said and done, you've lost a good provider and you have to start all over again. That's why its important to learn how to play these chicas and learn what motivates them. You must always keep them on their feet and never, ever allow them to think that you are exclusively theirs.

Sad realization, yes, but very liberating for you in the long run. Believe me when I say that the whole "exclusivety" thing will just ruin a good club for you. There were a couple of good clubs here in Morelia that I took off my list just because my "exclusive girlfriends" ruined my chance of ever getting laid there (without a war) again.

Mill