Racism against foreigners in Thailand

[Old Thai Hand]

Who is pointing fingers?

I never said I was proud to be an American. I never said; 'I am an American and anyone who does not like it can kiss my ass'. I never said any of those things. So as a University professor you might want to 'proof' read before you post. Not an English major I presume and that is why you are probably teaching in a country that is worlds apart from Canada.

Sure the US has more 'friendly' casualties than any other country and that is probably because they are too stupid too keep their noses out of other people's business and the great majority of troops on the ground at any one time are US forces. As a former Marine I despise the US Air Force that have caused many 'friendly' casualties as you refer to; but c'mon Prof when we are the only game in town; who do you think is going to be, 'In the Shit'?

"I was an officer with the UN peace-keeping forces in Cyprus in the 70s when the Turks invaded".

And to say that you were an officer in a peace keeping force in Cyprus is a real hoot.
You got to be shxxxng me!

The whole point of this conversation is; and I remind you too is about 'Racism and Nationalism', so please sir do do deviate from the subject by injecting inaccurate and misleading 'quotes' that no one ever said nor implied.

The only post I made to you was the following...

Given the less than stellar accomplishments of the US military during the last 40 years (although, you'll always have the victory in Granada), I wouldn't be pointing any fingers at the French, or anyone else.

So, I don't know what you're rambling on about. Perhaps you should be the one doing the proof-reading.

As for your jibe about my service in Cyprus...While it certainly wasn't a shooting war on the level of Iraq or Afghanistan, it wasn't Granada or Panama, either. The Turkish army was on one side shooting, and the Greeks were on the other and we were in the middle. On one patrol, we were caught in a crossfire and my driver had his head blown off and I had to push his bloody body out of the way, to get at the wheel, so I could get us the hell out of there, because you see, 'rules of engagement' dictated that we weren't allowed to shoot back, even to defend ourselves. It was hardly a sunny holiday in the Aegean.

Anyway, this thread is actually about Racism in Thailand. So, neither your posts or mine about military prowess, or lack thereof, belong here.

Oh, and BTW, I teach in Thailand because I choose to, not because I can't get a job back in the 'bad place' (as Opebo calls it). I worked in Canada for 27 years and finally left, because I hate snow. Living costs are cheap here. The women are among the most beautiful in the world. The people, as much as they annoy me, sometimes are preferable to most one meets in North America.

[Opebo]

No one from the Bad Place, such as myself, has any excuse for attempting to comment on France. The quality of life there is so much better than my sad land, and we've no one to blame but ourselves. Delicious high quality food, free universal health care, etc. The list goes on.

However, I will single out my personal compliment for the French people - unlike, speaking generally, my own country men, they are not fools. They at least understand politics and economics, and do take to the streets when they're being particularly oppressed. Americans always accept their serfdom uncomplainingly.

[Davidboy]

"Well, if it's not personal and just a general remark, why did you choose to quote my name and singled out my country?

But then, if it's not your business and you don't really care, why not keep your mouth shut about it? "

Hi Nic,

I guess it is because I am not 'PROUD' and I do not understand why others are; so if you have no reason to be 'PROUD' why not just keep your mouth shut?

[Davidboy]

Given the less than stellar accomplishments of the US military during the last 40 years (although, you'll always have the victory in Granada), I wouldn't be pointing any fingers at the French, or anyone else.

Who is pointing fingers?

I never said I was proud to be an American. I never said; 'I am an American and anyone who does not like it can kiss my ass'. I never said any of those things. So as a University professor you might want to 'proof' read before you post. Not an English major I presume and that is why you are probably teaching in a country that is worlds apart from Canada.

Sure the US has more 'friendly' casualties than any other country and that is probably because they are too stupid too keep their noses out of other people's business and the great majority of troops on the ground at any one time are US forces. As a former Marine I despise the US Air Force that have caused many 'friendly' casualties as you refer to; but c'mon Prof when we are the only game in town; who do you think is going to be, 'In the Shit'?

"I was an officer with the UN peace-keeping forces in Cyprus in the 70s when the Turks invaded".

And to say that you were an officer in a peace keeping force in Cyprus is a real hoot.
You got to be shxxxng me!

The whole point of this conversation is; and I remind you too is about 'Racism and Nationalism', so please sir do do deviate from the subject by injecting inaccurate and misleading 'quotes' that no one ever said nor implied.

[GoodEnough]

I guess I'm fortunate in that I speak French, and lived in Paris for years, but I never, in all of my years of living there, encountered any rudeness at all, and certainly nothing that would approach the standard of New York. It's always amazed me that Americans, Brits, etc. "expect" the rest of the world to speak their language and are offended when in the heart of a non-English speaking country, people have no interest speaking English.

I remember once giving some directions to a loud American woman in the Paris metro who was complaining bitterly that none of the written directions she had were in English. When I asked her if she thought French people visiting New York complained that the standard fliers they were given had not been translated into French, she looked at me as if I were from another planet. Maybe it's time that Americans, Brits, Australians et al. actually took the time to master another language?

GE

[NicFrenchy]

For example, despite their reputation for being among the rudest people on earth (sorry Nic), I've never encountered much rudeness in France, because I always try to speak French. Only in Paris are the people somewhat unmoved by my efforts. But, hey Parisians treat other French, not from Paris like crap, too. So goes London, New York, Bangkok and any number of other big cities.

I have to fully agree.
French people are rude to those who can't speak French, this is an ego defense, they don't want to show foreigners they can't understand a word of English (for the most part).

Parisians (I am guilty here) are a totally different breed. Either you are a Parisian or you are a peasant (Paysan), there is no middle ground.

And people ask me why I am proud of my country? LOL well, what can I say?

[NicFrenchy]

With all due respect, you must be talking about France, which seems to love to show off her big powerful dick by going into other people's countries, oui?

Hahahahaha touche

[Bigcebu]

Why take pride in being French? Well, for starters:

1. The best food and wine in the world;
2. A better quality of life than is found in most other places in the world;
3. A dedication to the furtherance and maintenance of public art that's unmatched;
4. An extraordinarily rich cultural history;
5. Some of the best literature and poetry the world has ever known;
6. A social compact that stresses quality of life over amount of capital amassed;
7. One of the world's most beautiful, expressive languages;
8. One of the world's most scenically beautiful countries;

How's that for starters?

1. The best food is Thai, the best wine is German.
2. France is not really a rich country. Poorer as many other countries in Western Europe
3. ok
4. like everywhere in Europe
5. The best literature and poetry is Russian and German
6. That's the reason why France is not rich. Almost every day a strike, is that something to be proud of?
7. And the total inability to learn a 2nd language
8. One out of 100

[Old Thai Hand]

Good idea!

I think we've managed to prove, though, that there is plenty of irrational racism, classism, nationalism, jingoism, and xenophobia in our own countries and all over the world -- not just in the LOS.

SO TRUE! The Thais certainly don't have a monopoly on it.

I do think that speaking even some of the language, wherever you are does go a long way to reducing local antipathy, somewhat. For example, despite their reputation for being among the rudest people on earth (sorry Nic), I've never encountered much rudeness in France, because I always try to speak French. Only in Paris are the people somewhat unmoved by my efforts. But, hey Parisians treat other French, not from Paris like crap, too. So goes London, New York, Bangkok and any number of other big cities.

[Daddy07]

...Anyway, I think we should drop this topic, as it is rife with potential hostility, and mainly because it clearly has nothing to do with this thread or this board.

Good idea!

I think we've managed to prove, though, that there is plenty of irrational racism, classism, nationalism, jingoism, and xenophobia in our own countries and all over the world -- not just in the LOS.

[Old Thai Hand]

With all due respect, I think you are confusing the failures of the US politicians with the accomplishments of the US military, which is unfair.

Are you prepared to discuss any stellar accomplishments of the Canadian military within the last 40 years? -- 100 years? -- 300 years?

Perhaps, unfair because the US military are for the most part, world-class. However, the US military are also prone to making a lot of fatal mistakes, which has nothing to do with failed government policies, or even the ineptness of its commanders, but the cowboy mentality of its 'grunts'. With this cavalier attitude, the US enjoys the distinction of having the largest number of friendly fire incidents in the last 70 years, including WWII. More US troops were killed due to friendly fire in the 1st Gulf War, than due to action with Iraqi forces, - Hell, the US airforce shot up my Dad's airfield twice in WWII because they mistook the blue Canadian airforce uniforms for Luftwaffe uniforms.

Military accomplishments are not always about war and aggression. Canada's military has a justifed reputation as being the #1 peace-keeping force in the UN over the past 60 years, especially, when the US steadfastly refused to participate because the rules of engagement didn't suit them (i.e. you couldn't shoot at people).

I was an officer with the UN peace-keeping forces in Cyprus in the 70s when the Turks invaded. We kept the Turks out of Greek Cyprus and we managed to do so without killing anyone.

The US forced the UN to change the rules of engagement in the 90s, before they would participate in Somalia and Bosnia, where they were allowed to shoot to kill. This might have been justified, given the natures of these two conflicts. But, disagreement arose among the Canadian and other International forces and US forces over the self-proclaimed role of the US forces as the "world's police" versus the belief held by the Canadians as well as forces from a number of other countries, especially from Europe (including France, btw) that the UN's primary mission was not policing, but peace-keeping.

Anyway, I think we should drop this topic, as it is rife with potential hostility, and mainly because it clearly has nothing to do with this thread or this board.

[NicFrenchy]

Why take pride in being French? Well, for starters:

1. The best food and wine in the world;
2. A better quality of life than is found in most other places in the world;
3. A dedication to the furtherance and maintenance of public art that's unmatched;
4. An extraordinarily rich cultural history;
5. Some of the best literature and poetry the world has ever known;
6. A social compact that stresses quality of life over amount of capital amassed;
7. One of the world's most beautiful, expressive languages;
8. One of the world's most scenically beautiful countries;

How's that for starters?

Well, what else can I say other than: Excellent post (oh, yeah, I'm just a little biased)

[Daddy07]

With all due respect, I don't recall Canada going into other people's countries to show what a big poweful dick they have...

With all due respect, you must be talking about France, which seems to love to show off her big powerful dick by going into other people's countries, oui?

[NicFrenchy]

Are you prepared to discuss any stellar accomplishments of the Canadian military within the last 40 years? -- 100 years? -- 300 years?

With all due respect, I don't recall Canada going into other people's countries to show what a big poweful dick they have...

[NicFrenchy]

Did you mean: "french military defeats"
No standard web pages containing all your search terms were found.
Your search - "french military victories" - did not match any documents.

Not everything's about war, I despise war but since you bring up the subject, why is that France had all these Colonised countries and no military victories?
That would be like saying "lance Armstrong" won the tour de France 7 times but never actually won an "etape".

On the Cycling topic... I love cycling but it does not mean I enjoy the "Tour de France" where Anabolic Steroid grown people try to put on a show every summer trying to prove who is the biggest winner (most likely the one clever enough not to get caught).
Give me a REAL sports where Athletes compete naturally and based on Raw talent... all the rest to me is a fagotty sport.

I really don't know much about France at all; I cycled in Europe on three different occasions and did so in France in 1990 where I found the people to be the most rude in the region.

Yes, you're right, most Frenchmen are rude but it's just because we don't really like foreigners and unlike Thais, we won't put a fake smile on our face
1990 you say? hell, chances are people didn't even understand you adn got irritated. People (even now in 2009) don't speak English so the rudeness is just smoke & mirrors to mask their ignorance.

Nothing personal at all I assure you but since the discussion is about 'Pride';
Why it is that you are so proud of France is none of my business and I don't really care;

Well, if it's not personal and just a general remark, why did you choose to quote my name and singled out my country?
but then, if it's not your business and you don't really care, why not keep your mouth shut about it?

my comment was just a general remark about the 'blind nationalism' that one finds in many parts of the world. Although here in Thailand it seems to be obsessive to the extreme.

Actually, Pride is something that no one can explain as it is a personal feeling. For all you know, I could be proud of what my family did more than what France did? ever occur to you?

No worries, I'm not upset, I just like these debates