Non-Pro Garotas - Opinions & Advice

[WyattEarp]

But I doubt these musings would help him much. From what I remember he was planning his adventures on a very limited budget, which would hardly support wooing nonpros.

LOL. Harry loves meandering discussions where he can simultaneously ask questions and then argue with the responder. He's never been to Brazil, but I'm sure he would have lots to add to this topic.

Hmm. So he's in the Bogota thread educating the mongers there.

[Mr Enternational]

Keep your eyes facing straight ahead. Horse blinders or wraparound sunglasses are a wise investment. Also plan on having a lot of sex. In her mind, that way you will not have any leite for other women.

Or you can ask her to give you your balls out of her purse so you don't have to walk around on eggshells. If you have a real bond and friendship with your girl, you can point out chicks that you think are sexy. You don't have to walk around acting like the world around you does not exist and there are not more beautiful women on the planet.

I have been caught red handed when 2 non-pro chicks in Rio met each other without me even being there and nothing changed. Be yourself. Don't act like you are one person and turn out to be another. When you try to act an angel in the beginning then are later found out to be doing sneaky shit is when you have a problem. Never claim to be the angel in the first place.

Me and a buddy were in Tijuana recently. He didn't even want to look at chicks. He said I promised my girl so and so. His girl lives in the damn Dominican Republic (he is Domimican as well). He just got a divorce from his wife for sneaking around and here he is getting himself right back into promising another chick some shit. Some guys are just serial monogamists and bury themselves into situations they think they want to be in. Then when they fuck up they look like a heel. Stop thinking you have to promise shit or be a certain way to enjoy being with a chick or to fuck them.

[Xpartan]

Let's say you have mastered Portuguese, are spending significant time in Brazil and are ready to take the plunge into the world of non-pros. One thing of utmost importance is do not ever, if you want to survive to your next birthday, let her or worse, her friends, see you with another woman.

In my limited experience, the same goes for a pro if she gets it into her head that you're her boyfriend for a moment and belong to her and her alone. I already wrote about my unfortunate experience with a termas girl I stupidly brought to Buzios for a weekend.

Brasileiras: always ready to bring a telenovella to life.

[Exec Talent]

Let's say you have mastered Portuguese, are spending significant time in Brazil and are ready to take the plunge into the world of non-pros. One thing of utmost importance is do not ever, if you want to survive to your next birthday, let her or worse, her friends, see you with another woman. See my comments about termas robes and love motels elsewhere. Brazilian women know their men are going to make the rounds. Always be there for special events (there are a lot of those) and never embarrass her by the outward appearance of any other women in your life. Single men without girlfriends are to be avoided. They will sell you out in a heartbeat and have nothing to lose. Never being alone with her friends, especially the attractive ones, goes without saying. If she suggests threesomes with her friends, feign a complete lack of interest. Only when she insists do you go along and then, the first time, pretend not to enjoy it. You are aware that girls are turning 18 every day. So is she. Keep your eyes facing straight ahead. Horse blinders or wraparound sunglasses are a wise investment. Also plan on having a lot of sex. In her mind, that way you will not have any leite for other women. Be advised to always go along. If you can't or won't you are telling her she no longer does it for you or you are seeing someone else. In either case, have your bags packed so you can make a quick exit. Even if it is your place. Good luck!

[Xpartan]

What happened to our buddy HarryDuBois from the Rio forum a month or few back? He would love this discussion. LOL.

But I doubt these musings would help him much. From what I remember he was planning his adventures on a very limited budget, which would hardly support wooing nonpros.

[Spidy]

...Last time we were together was April when she gave me her anal virginity. So it fell in my lap, not that she was a hooker, but that she was fucking my buddy.

So my take-a-away from analogy #1 (Bogota chick, who I'm assuming is "non-pro"), seems she just loves to fuck. But with all this fucking she's doing between you and your boy, she hasn't given you pause to think otherwise w/r to my question. Fair enough!

...I pulled out the equivalent of $30 and handed it to her. She said what is this for. I said so you can buy him a drink...I have never been the jealous type. But then too I do not make too many commitments. I just leave the relationship open.

My take-a-away from analogy #2 (Thai chick, who I'm also assuming is a "non-pro"), if based on the situation you posted above, if she did have a past life hooking and fucking for money, that came to light, you'd be okay with it since you're not the jealous type and you would just leave this relationship open. Did I get that right?

[Sperto]

Senor sperto,
Where is that paper posted?

Senhor Vagabundo, I won't post his real name here, but if you google "OUR LADY OF HELP:SEX, TOURISM AND TRANSNATIONAL MOVEMENTS IN COPACABANA" and "PDF" you'll find the Help report.

[The Cane]

There were far worse abusers of ISG policies, then he. I'm sure you may (or may not) remember "David_33" (Peru thread), whose posts were deleted / removed for good reasons as to why. I won't go into them here. And then there were really annoying BMs, like "Nibu in Brazil" and "Nibu in Peru". Thank goodness, he got his own thread and doesn't post anymore. But hey, just MHO.

I remember those guys, and know the reasons for why David's posts were removed. "Nibu Raphael" went by "Arecho Monger" on another site, where he was banned. Good riddance LOL!

[WyattEarp]

"Hide"?

"Something else going on"?

Why? What did your old self have going on, LOL?

Are we still discussing the "merits" of telling women that you come to Brazil to fuck tutes? Or has this topic mutated into something else entirely?

Anyhoo, this drama queen is out.

What happened to our buddy HarryDuBois from the Rio forum a month or few back? He would love this discussion. LOL.

[Spidy]

Not sure where this falls under in the conversations surrounding foreign travelers, but I always thought that business men/business travelers were doing sex tourism (or visiting their international "non-pro" girlfriends), long before the masses were hip to the P4P scene.

The endless parade of wives, who thought their husbands / boyfriends or significant others, were actually, "just on business", was entertainingly naive.

[Spidy]

Macunaima eventually got banned from this site, as he wasn't a monger and was mostly unwelcome here by the monger community ...

I guess I'm one of those few members, that did not mind reading what the dude had to say and enjoyed his contributions.

If I remember correctly, he wasn't much of a nuisance, once he got his own thread. I thought he simply quit posting and moved on. After all, his very own Macunaima's thread, with all his posts are still intact and there for us to read and ponder. After a ISG poll, about weather or not to ban him, only about 25% of us, wanted him gone. See the Brazilian thread "Is Macunaima a Serial Antagonist?" We should adopt this approach with more BMs...kkkk.

While this is a mongering site, there is no requirement that says you have to be a mongerer to post and contribute here. There are numerous threads where the discussions are non-P4P. Take the "Opinions. American Politcs" thread for example.

There were far worse abusers of ISG policies, then he. I'm sure you may (or may not) remember "David_33" (Peru thread), whos posts were deleted / removed for good reasons as to why. I won't go into them here. And then there were really annoying BMs, like "Nibu in Brazil" and "Nibu in Peru". Thank goodness, he got his own thread and doesn't post anymore. But hey, just MHO.

[Vagabundo1]

Senor sperto,

Where is that paper posted?

It is an interesting subject. The definitive work, in my mind, is economist.com special report.

https://www.economist.com/leaders/20...ersonal-choice

Elsewhere on ISG, I have suggested a thread on "the literature of prostitution" . The first item would be Lonesome Dove, wherein there are hookers and non pros, and when they meet, the non pros like and help the hookers, who are both the women at some point of Gus McCrae, a happy and unapologetic hooker monger if ever there was one. God Bless Texas, and death to all who oppose Texas!

Street-Walkers; kerb-crawlers; phone booths plastered with pictures of breasts and buttocks: the sheer seediness of prostitution is just one reason governments have long sought to outlaw it, or corral it in licensed brothels or "tolerance zones". NIMBYs make common cause with puritans, who think that women selling sex are sinners, and do-gooders, who think they are victims. The reality is more nuanced. Some prostitutes do indeed suffer from trafficking, exploitation or violence; their abusers ought to end up in jail for their crimes. But for many, both male and female, sex work is just that: work.

This newspaper has never found it plausible that all prostitutes are victims. That fiction is becoming harder to sustain as much of the buying and selling of sex moves online. Personal websites mean prostitutes can market themselves and build their brands. Review sites bring trustworthy customer feedback to the commercial-sex trade for the first time. The shift makes it look more and more like a normal service industry.

It can also be analyzed like one. We have dissected data on prices, services and personal characteristics from one big international site that hosts 190,000 profiles of female prostitutes (see article). The results show that gentlemen really do prefer blondes, who charge 11% more than brunettes. The scrawny look beloved of fashion magazines is more marketable than flab—but less so than a healthy weight. Prostitutes themselves behave like freelancers in other labour markets. They arrange tours and take bookings online, like gigging musicians. They choose which services to offer, and whether to specialize. They temp, go part-time and fit their work around child care. There is even a graduate premium that is close to that in the wider economy.

The invisible hand-job.

Moralisers will lament the shift online because it will cause the sex trade to grow strongly. Buyers and sellers will find it easier to meet and make deals. New suppliers will enter a trade that is becoming safer and less tawdry. New customers will find their way to prostitutes, since they can more easily find exactly the services they desire and confirm their quality. Pimps and madams should shudder, too. The internet will undermine their market-making power.

But everyone else should cheer. Sex arranged online and sold from an apartment or hotel room is less bothersome for third parties than are brothels or red-light districts. Above all, the web will do more to make prostitution safer than any law has ever done. Pimps are less likely to be abusive if prostitutes have an alternative route to market. Specialist sites will enable buyers and sellers to assess risks more accurately. Apps and sites are springing up that will let them confirm each other's identities and swap verified results from sexual-health tests. Schemes such as Britain's Ugly Mugs allow prostitutes to circulate online details of clients to avoid.

Governments should seize the moment to rethink their policies. Prohibition, whether partial or total, has been a predictable dud. It has singularly failed to stamp out the sex trade. Although prostitution is illegal everywhere in America except Nevada, old figures put its value at $14 billion annually nationwide; surely an underestimate. More recent calculations in Britain, where prostitution is legal but pimping and brothels are not, suggest that including it would boost GDP figures by at least £5.3 billion ($8.9 billion). And prohibition has ugly results. Violence against prostitutes goes unpunished because victims who live on society's margins are unlikely to seek justice, or to get it. The problem of sex tourism plagues countries, like the Netherlands and Germany, where the legal part of the industry is both tightly circumscribed and highly visible.

The failure of prohibition is pushing governments across the rich world to try a new tack: criminalizing the purchase of sex instead of its sale. Sweden was first, in 1999, followed by Norway, Iceland and France; Canada is rewriting its laws along similar lines. The European Parliament wants the "Swedish model" to be adopted right across the EU. Campaigners in America are calling for the same approach.

Sex sells, and always will.

This new consensus is misguided, as a matter of both principle and practice. Banning the purchase of sex is as illiberal as banning its sale. Criminalization of clients perpetuates the idea of all prostitutes as victims forced into the trade. Some certainly are—by violent partners, people-traffickers or drug addiction. But there are already harsh laws against assault and trafficking. Addicts need treatment, not a jail sentence for their clients.

Sweden's avowed aim is to wipe out prostitution by eliminating demand. But the sex trade will always exist—and the new approach has done nothing to cut the harms associated with it. Street prostitution declined after the law was introduced but soon increased again. Prostitutes' understandable desire not to see clients arrested means they strike deals faster and do less risk assessment. Canada's planned laws would make not only the purchase of sex illegal, but its advertisement, too. That will slow down the development of review sites and identity- and health-verification apps.

The prospect of being pressed to mend their ways makes prostitutes less willing to seek care from health or social services. Men who risk arrest will not tell the police about women they fear were coerced into prostitution. When Rhode Island unintentionally decriminalized indoor prostitution between 2003 and 2009 the state saw a steep decline in reported rapes and cases of gonorrhea.

Prostitution is moving online whether governments like it or not. If they try to get in the way of the shift they will do harm. Indeed, the unrealistic goal of ending the sex trade distracts the authorities from the genuine horrors of modern-day slavery (which many activists conflate with illegal immigration for the aim of selling sex) and child prostitution (better described as money changing hands to facilitate the rape of a child). Governments should focus on deterring and punishing such crimes—and leave consenting adults who wish to buy and sell sex to do so safely and privately online.

* Cunningham, S and Shah, M. "Decriminalizing Indoor Prostitution: Implications for Sexual Violence and Public Health" (working paper, July 17th 2014). Dx. Doi. Org /10.2139/ ssrn. 2467633.

Macunaima was (maybe still is) an anthropologist at UFRJ. He wrote books and tons of papers regarding sex workers and mongers. I just took a glance at one of his papers regarding Discoteca Help, "OUR LADY OF HELP:SEX, TOURISM AND TRANSNATIONAL MOVEMENTS IN COPACABANA", quite interesting.

[Xpartan]

No, I believe you are a drama queen. It's getting ridiculous. I see my old self in you. You have something else going on. Why don't you step back and tell us what is your point? What are you hiding? What are you trying to talk yourself into? Spill it out brother, take it off your chest.

"Hide"?

"Something else going on"?

Why? What did your old self have going on, LOL?

Are we still discussing the "merits" of telling women that you come to Brazil to fuck tutes? Or has this topic mutated into something else entirely?

Anyhoo, this drama queen is out.

[Mr Enternational]

So you are saying, that if evidence "falls in your lap" about her past as a hooker, your not going to do "a damn thing" with this "non-pro" nurse, meaning you would just keep seeing her and fucking her with your boy? Did I get that right?

No judgement here. Just trying to clarify your position w/r to the question I've asked.

We do not fuck her together at the same time. I met and started fucking this chick. I told my main wingman about her. He said is her name so and so? I said yes. Then he told me that he has been fucking her as well. So while me and her are hanging out together she is sending my buddy messages about missing him and asking him to come see her (he tells me about it and sometimes sends me the messages). Then she keeps asking me for a relationship but I keep telling her that we will talk about it when we see each other. But she never reminds me to talk about it when we are together. Funny she always sends me tons of nekkit pics and videos though, but never sends them to my buddy. I have literally hundreds from her. At one point I told her to stop sending me that shit everyday. This has been going on like 3 years. Last time we were together was April when she gave me her anal virginity. So it fell in my lap, not that she was a hooker, but that she was fucking my buddy. Haven't said anything to her about it yet. Another funny thing is that when I met her she told me that she had met a guy from my city but they kind of fell apart. It never occurred to her that we could possibly know each other.

Side story: Me and the same wing man went to Cali, Colombia. I met another nurse chick online. I told her to bring a friend for my buddy. Why did her friend end up being another chick that I was supposed to meet up with the next day? Shame, Shame, Shame! I still laugh about that shit today and that was around 2006 or 2007. That was probably my most embarrassing moment. It is a small world on the internet.

But there was the time when I met the chick in Rio and she told me she worked in an office. We spent a couple of days together and I accompanied her to Rio Sul Mall to buy a washing machine that was on sale. She pulled out a big wad of money. I asked where she got it and she said her dad gave it to her to buy the washer. The next time that I was in Rio I did not tell her I was coming. I went up to Help at night and the first person I saw was her standing in front of the corner of the building by herself. All I could do was laugh. She kept trying to explain and asking to go to the apartment with me. I told her no and acted like I was heart broken. I had to play that role. Years ago she ended up moving to southern France. So it fell into my lap that she was presently a hooker, but who cares. I am fucking her for free with no strings attached. And she is helping with the bill when we go out sometimes.

Then there was a chick in Thailand that I was messing with a couple of years ago. She wanted me to go to the club with her and her friend one night and I told her no. She said okay, if you happen to come and see with dancing with a guy then do not say anything. I pulled out the equivalent of $30 and handed it to her. She said what is this for. I said so you can buy him a drink; then I rode off on my motorbike. I have never been the jealous type. But then too I do not make too many commitments. I just leave the relationship open.

[Stinky Squid]

I feel like I want to give you an example about non-pro vs. Pro and how difficult this can be. There may be rumors about her which everybody knows and nobody will tell you. I know of one friend of a friend who I am told has a pussy that's literally stinking like fish and has herpes and papilloma still manages to bait dudes and destroy their families for her. I know this woman as an example. And the other, my sister in law, oh boy. I don't have stories about a stinking pussy but I witnessed the BPD shit that she's been pulling off. She's been through the entire small town and still got to reel in a dude, baited into impregnating her. The levels of crazy are boundless! When you go into a relationship, you are risking not only opportunity cost (years of your life lost) you are also risking the golpe de barriga and some herpes too. A past in this business defines her personality. It isn't something you can ever build your life on, and it doesn't effing matter if she got herself through law school that way. Damaged girls can be so fucking frustrating if you're trying to make it work. There is a limit when some would literally kill themselves than to give one inch to work with you on improving things. You can read here on this forum, like in the RJ termas reports about stinking pussy. It's disgusting. It's therapeutical for the sex-craved dude to really behold that thought. But nothing is worse than being stuck with a crazy girl, especially if she pretends to be better than she actually was. Like I don't think anyone has married an (ex-) hooker and hasn't gotten screwed by she suddenly discovering her "dignity". Legs open for the paying customer, hubby is to take care of her moodiness and headaches, and she is oh so hurt by something he said once. This stuff is hard if she wasn't a hooker, but with all that baggage and the screwed up personality it's hopeless.

And there is no equality. There are lots of hopeless guys too. But I don't think mongering makes a guy hopeless, nor his predilections. It's other things.