Non-Pro Garotas - Opinions & Advice

[Sperto]

Resourceful as always. Now that you mention it, I do remember, that dude. I think he even had his own website and wrote several white-pages (perhaps even a book by now) on the topic. And yes he did enjoy a good debate on this very subject matter.

Macunaima was (maybe still is) an anthropologist at UFRJ. He wrote books and tons of papers regarding sex workers and mongers. I just took a glance at one of his papers regarding Discoteca Help, "OUR LADY OF HELP:SEX, TOURISM AND TRANSNATIONAL MOVEMENTS IN COPACABANA", quite interesting.

[The Cane]

Resourceful as always. Now that you mention it, I do remember, that dude. I think he even had his own website and wrote several white-pages (perhaps even a book by now) on the topic. And yes he did enjoy a good debate on this very subject matter.

Macunaima eventually got banned from this site, as he wasn't a monger and was mostly unwelcome here by the monger community. So what did he do? He showed up on another site (now defunct) under another handle where we all hated him as well LOL! His real name got outed on the other site, and turns out he was a professor at a university in Rio (I don't recall exactly which one) who was using sites like this for his research. He eventually disappeared altogether. I guess he got what he wanted and split. Thank god! What a nuisance he was to us real pro mongers.

[Spidy]

There was a guy, Macunaima, who posted here 15 years ago (has his own thread). He lived in Brazil and studied mongers. He would have loved your discussion. ...

Resourceful as always. Now that you mention it, I do remember, that dude. I think he even had his own website and wrote several white-pages (perhaps even a book by now) on the topic. And yes he did enjoy a good debate on this very subject matter.

So after a little digging (ISG search is your friend) , I did find the following, that may address some of my questions.

Sperto, again, stats in this sort of thing are mostly made up, so...

What I've found is the following: every woman I've interviewed so far left another job to become a pro because, once she got over the stigma, the economics were just too much in favor of it. Most of the women worked as low-rate tour guides, beauticians, supermarket check-out girls, hotel staff and etc. and these jobs typically pay less than 500 reais a month: what an enterprising girl can make in one night turning tricks.

So why did they start? Usually it's a combination of three things: the above economics, easy access to Copacabana (generally they were working a regular job there, first) and a friend who introduced them around and showed them the ropes. Most women that I've talked to start out saying to themselves "OK, I'll just do this once in awhile, you know to reinforce my income". But once the taboo of turning tricks was broken, it just became more logical, economically speaking, to go on doing it. ...

The rest of the report is also very interesting.

BTW, most of what you describe is just regular dating, stuff. Maybe the question I'm asking is just too personal.

Anyways, it looks like I have some reading to do in Macunaima's thread.

[Spidy]

... Let me bottom line it for you. Given what I've outlined here and previously. I'm arguing the following:

1) When mongerers are dating or in relationship with "non-pro" garotas, without hard evidence or a confession from said "non-pro" garota, is there anyway of knowing that she hasn't dipped "one pinky toe", into prostitution, in one form or other in her past life?

My above reference to evidence that "falls in your lap".

Not a damn thing. Me and my boy have been fucking the same nurse in Bogota for about 3 years ...

So you are saying, that if evidence "falls in your lap" about her past as a hooker, your not going to do "a damn thing" with this "non-pro" nurse, meaning you would just keep seeing her and fucking her with your boy? Did I get that right?

No judgement here. Just trying to clarify your position w/r to the question I've asked.

[Spidy]

No, but you can assume it. My fateful girl that I used to blow up my boring life 10 years ago, she turned out to have been a semi-pro and cheated on my while we were together. There is unexplained lapses which are just telling it.

My second super angel GF did some research and was in contact with my fateful semi-pro family, the semi-pro-ness ran in the family. Mother did that too. And as usual, the brother ended up gay. ...

Stinky, thank you for the thoughts, comments and feedback on some of your experiences with "non-pros" and LTRs. I found it all very illuminating from your point-a-view.

Sorry, I didn't mean for you to answer, questions 2 a) thru 2 h). They were simply presented as possible scenarios that guys would take when faced with this new evidence about their "non-pro" and they then could chime-in, if one of them hit a nerve. But you answered them all and is very much appreciated.

Please don't take any of my questions personally. If I came off looking like I was attacking you, that wasn't my intention. I don't have a "horse in the race", one way or the other, when it comes to dating and / or a LTR with a non-pro. I will date both non-pros / ex-pros dependent on the circumstances.

I am simply playing "devil's advocate", for the most part and trying to probe some of the nuances, that BMs may (or may not) want to share, w/r to dating their non-pros / LTRs had perhaps found out, if their non-pro perhaps had a past P4P history and what they did or how they felt about it, especially knowing they have "history" too.

Once again, thank you.

[Stinky Squid]

Only who says anything about "arts and culture"? Have you even been anywhere in Brazil outside Copacabana?

Dude! I live there for 10 years! I have several properties there, I have lived in the favelas I have lived at the beach I have lived in the interior, I am in Foz all the time, and I'm looking for a farm to start producing.

But OK, let's say you're right about "arts and culture" (you're not).

Yeah sure. Bossa Nova is dead, it's funk now. Quando ela bate com a bunda no chao, desce desce desce desce.

Do you have any idea how many "single guys" travel to Brazil for work? I'm on a plane with this quiet dude from OK, who's at consulting firm for Petrobras. Heard something from his Brazilian colleagues about Help and termas, but very poorly informed otherwise. Plus no Portuguese. His eyes lit up when I told him about prives and boates and the peanuts it costs in Rio to bust a nut.

His eyes lit up. There you have it. It's a dude who apparently is too limited in figuring shit out. But he definitely is interested in extracurricular activity.

You think every single guy in Brazil is a monger because of this forum? When you're at a cemetery, do you believe the world is dead?

No, I believe you are a drama queen. It's getting ridiculous. I see my old self in you. You have something else going on. Why don't you step back and tell us what is your point? What are you hiding? What are you trying to talk yourself into? Spill it out brother, take it off your chest.

But hey, if being honest works for you, who am I to tell you anything? No reason to fix something that ain't broken, LOL.

Being honest works for everyone. It works better because you can be at peace with yourself and work on making your dreams come true.

I just wish I could hear how this conversation goes. "So what are you doing in Brazil"? "Oh, I'm just here to fuck me some tutes, but hey, when can I see you again?

So, now you're raising an actionable question. Here is what I say, 100% truth: I have always been enchanted by Brazil, I love Brazil, it's beautiful geography, beaches, so green so lush, and, oh, those Brasileiras! I walk around in the city and it's just such a joy. Even when I had my GF who became my wife and was the most beautiful girl I have ever seen, I still enjoyed walking about and seeing the beauty of Brasileiras, because it is in this context that my own girl is standing out and incentivized to stand out. Sadly though, that awful feminism is taking a hold here too, and women start cutting their hair off and stuff like that. But the good thing is that that's not taking on in the majority yet. And on and on, most likely I will be interrupted before I can even finish my second sentence. But you see, it's all true. From my heart. I don't need to hide.

[Stinky Squid]

I don't quite understand why "don't ask, don't tell" is not the best policy. I've been going down to Brazil for work over many years. I have some male confidants who I pal around with in a few cities. I have dated women in their circles and this topic never, never comes up with the women.

In fact one time when I was heading to Rio for some "relaxation" after biz in Help Disco's glory years. A younger male in the circle called me on it in front of mixed company. A senior member quickly shut down the topic and gave him a foreboding look. My experience tells me many Brazilian men routinely take advantage of the carnal delights Brazil has to offer. It's not something that is talked about in mixed company or with one's significant other. The women might know it, but do not want to hear about it.

I can tell you the women are happy if at least their husbands aren't screwing other dudes, which many do. It's crazy.

But you see this: the senior shut down the talker because what? Because everybody knows! And the talker was just one of those who probably did it discreetly with escorts in his room while playing Pharisee.

My point wasn't that you spill the beans out of nowhere. My point was to be enlightened about it. If you are making a show of your reason for visit as "interested in the culture and blah blah" that's just pathetic. Talk about other things, sure. But I tell you that the best approach is hat you do not even feel guilty or need to hide anything. Just make it a non issue.

[Sperto]

There was a guy, Macunaima, who posted here 15 years ago (has his own thread). He lived in Brazil and studied mongers. He would have loved your discussion.

IMO you're complicating everything, it's not rocket science. Some goes to Brazil with the only purpose of getting laid. Other guys go to Brazil for tourism and doesn't care if they get laid or not. My main purpose of going to Brazil is definitely not to get laid. However I do have a lot of fun with the Brazilian women. The pro's are great. They can quickly fulfill a sexual desire. Let say you wake up and feel like, today I want to f*ck a morena/white/negra/mulatta/india/small tits/big tits/horse ass/pony ass, then this can be done in short time. However, to me the pro's will never be more important than my main target, regular/non-pro girls. Easy to score, fun to conquer and gives better sex.

When I meet regular girls in Brazil, of course they understand that I had many brazilian GFs. They don't imagine they are the first Brazilian girl I pick up in 31 years in Brazil. What's important for them is that I respect them and don't cheat on them while we are together.
When I meet a piranha/papa-gringo I would never judge her for having other gringo BFs before. I just enjoy my time together with her.
Romantic dates with pro's, no way. Regular girls are for dating. I would feel like a fool if I went out on a romantic date with a GP. When I pay a GP it's because I want to buy her sexual service, not because I need an illusion of her being in love with me.

[Mr Enternational]

Nor was I advocating snooping around. If for what ever reason, by confession or evidence "falls in your lap", then what?

Not a damn thing. Me and my boy have been fucking the same nurse in Bogota for about 3 years but she does not know that we know each other. I don't rock the boat. I ride shit out until the wheels fall off. I want to see where or how things end up.

I had a vasectomy, but whenever a chick claims to be pregnant I just play along to see how it ends. Chicks have shown me legit-appearing paperwork saying they are pregnant. Most say they lost the baby. One chick even told me she drank some abortion tea. So far only one chick has had the baby and it is weird because the dates add up perfectly and she was 25 with no kids before she had the daughter. I did end up telling her before the baby was born because she kept hounding me for money. We still fuck every couple of years and til this day she swears it is my kid and I swear that it is not.

[Xpartan]

Thought it was funny how you used the word "confess" as if us mongerers, were attending church. ...kkkk

LOL, how else would you call advising (for whatever reason) a supposedly nonpro woman you're hoping to bed that you enjoy fucking tutes?

So gentleman, in conclusion, the attached photo is what it's all about for a working girl. For many, many "non-working" girls too for that matter! Hahahaha!

Brilliant! On both counts.

Yeah sure, like business travel inhibits a man from doing extracurricular activities. There is no way you're going to be believed and why should you lie about it.

You are deluding yourself. Single guy traveling in Brazil is NOT doing it to "experience the arts and the culture". That's bullshit. No Brazilian chick believes that. And I have known my share of Brazilians girls, they are not prude about this stuff. Even my very straight and religious 7 year LTR.

You are not thinking straight whether that means too much or to little is neither here nor there. I did not say that the two lives "mix" although as Mr. Entertainment says, it completely depends on whether you are upfront out the barn or if you beat around the Bush. I have not yet mixed them but this year I am intending to do so whatever happens.

I'm deluding myself. OK, fine.

Only who says anything about "arts and culture"? Have you even been anywhere in Brazil outside Copacabana? Have you seen Iguassu Falls, Salvador, have you been to Octoberfest in Blumenau? Have you visited Ilha Grande, Buzios, Lencois Marenhances (sp?), Amazon? I would go to all these places again, alone or with a buddy even if there was no one to fuck. It's actually sad that some guys don't even see the beauty of Brazil beyond a bunda.

But OK, let's say you're right about "arts and culture" (you're not). Do you have any idea how many "single guys" travel to Brazil for work? I'm on a plane with this quiet dude from OK, who's at consulting firm for Petrobras. Heard something from his Brazilian colleagues about Help and termas, but very poorly informed otherwise. Plus no Portuguese. His eyes lit up when I told him about prives and boates and the peanuts it costs in Rio to bust a nut.

You think every single guy in Brazil is a monger because of this forum? When you're at a cemetery, do you believe the world is dead?

But hey, if being honest works for you, who am I to tell you anything? No reason to fix something that ain't broken, LOL.

I just wish I could hear how this conversation goes. "So what are you doing in Brazil"? "Oh, I'm just here to fuck me some tutes, but hey, when can I see you again?

[WyattEarp]

I think about it differently and I know what I'm talking about.

Brazilian girls know full well and expect that gringo dudes who travel in Brazil are in the hobby. If you were to tell her that "no!" she knew you were lying, so why beat around the Bush?

I don't quite understand why "don't ask, don't tell" is not the best policy. I've been going down to Brazil for work over many years. I have some male confidants who I pal around with in a few cities. I have dated women in their circles and this topic never, never comes up with the women.

In fact one time when I was heading to Rio for some "relaxation" after biz in Help Disco's glory years. A younger male in the circle called me on it in front of mixed company. A senior member quickly shut down the topic and gave him a foreboding look. My experience tells me many Brazilian men routinely take advantage of the carnal delights Brazil has to offer. It's not something that is talked about in mixed company or with one's significant other. The women might know it, but do not want to hear about it.

[WyattEarp]

So gentleman, in conclusion, the attached photo is what it's all about for a working girl. For many, many "non-working" girls too for that matter! Hahahaha!

Hey, that's my friend Benjamin. I know him very well. He's been with a lot of working girls. I'm surprised the moderators didn't take down your photo of him or at least blur his face.

[Stinky Squid]

Why is this so complicated?

Let me bottom line it for you. Given what I've outlined here and previously. I'm arguing the following:

1) When mongerers are dating or in relationship with "non-pro" garotas, without hard evidence or a confession from said "non-pro" garota, is there anyway of knowing that she hasn't dipped "one pinky toe", into prostitution, in one form or other in her past life?

No, but you can assume it. My fateful girl that I used to blow up my boring life 10 years ago, she turned out to have been a semi-pro and cheated on my while we were together. There is unexplained lapses which are just telling it.

My second super angel GF did some research and was in contact with my fateful semi-pro family, the semi-pro-ness ran in the family. Mother did that too. And as usual, the brother ended up gay.

2) For the sake of argument, let's say hard evidence or a confession from said "non-pro" garota was established. What then?

It depends on what you want man! If you want to continue fooling around, then why even bother?

I tell you you can play the one back who is playing you. It is actually quite nice to play with insta-love. If she fakes it, so what? You'd pay a puta to fake the GFE, so why not take the fake insta-love from a non-pro for free? And besides, it's not fake. These girls are seriously confused. My fateful girl was definitely feeling something for me. She was just not sane to be counted as a stable partner.

So it depends what you want.

A) Do I take a zero tolerance approach?

What does this even mean? Are you gonna jail her or what?

C) It was ONLY one time she says, so all is forgiven?

If she tells you about it, chalk that up as her being honest with you and you can talk from there. Remember, NOBODY is "forced" into prostitution "by the circumstanced". Grooming and breaking in kidnapped girls is all the story of wild novels. Not even in India is it really done that way. But definitely NOT in Brazil. Prostitution is always a choice, and it is an easy choice. My angel GF has literally been picking trash from trash heaps as a 5 year old, abject poverty and hardships, and she never did this, instead she created honest income streams. Nobody is forced.

But honesty counts as something. I like the honesty of the professionals and the arrangement seekers. They are there for a goal. But that still doesn't mean they are solid relationship material to marry and have kids with.

B) It was ONLY a couple times and that was years ago, so all is forgiven?

What the fuck do you have to "forgive" here? Are you God or what? You are a monger! You have nothing to "forgive"! But she still is probably not marriage material. That's all.

D) Is it, "once a hoe, always a hoe", even if it was just one time to pay for university, school, utility bills, food...etc?

Why do you harp on that point? A hoe had made a choice to get quick money by providing this service. That tells you her priorities. It is a constitutional part of her personality. A good girl who dreams of husband and family does not do this.

E) She retaliates and fires-back, "Men pay to fuck hookers all the time, I bet you have in your past life". What do you say?

See above, you have a wrong attitude to the whole issue. That's why you keep harping on it. Be enlightened. You can like a girl who is a hooker, you can be smitten, you can have compassion, you can wish you could unite with her, you can play marriage with her, it is just not very probable that you'll have a stable marriage. If you're not looking for marriage, you can enjoy it while it lasts.

I am a very emotional guy. I love to love the girl I am with. Even my last "atriz porno" I reported on, I have feelings for her. I could play "fall in love" with any girl who pleases my taste. And it is nice while it lasts. When it breaks up, you shed some tears and move on. I look back at my life and I cherish all the encounters I had that had any emotional tickle. I do not feel hurt even about stuff that went sour. The moments were great or I would not have enjoyed them then.

F) Do you confess or continue to be a hypocrite?

You ARE a hypocrite. You have also nothing to "confess". You like girls, you want it. Why not say what is so obvious. Really, Brazilian girls know that a single gringo traveler is NOT in Brazil to enjoy the "culture" (what culture anyway?) that is bullshit!

H) Do you now consider this "non-pro" garota, that you've known for several years and now has a stable job as a dentist, lawyer, accountant, doctor, clerk, secretary. Etc, now as just a "hoe"?

I couldn't care less about a woman's job and how much she makes. I am not looking for someone to supplement my income. I want a girl who is stable and available and who respects me and, for really long term, one who wants her own family. Love is for the purpose of procreation, biology in full power. Like I said earlier, you cannot have an LTR with a good girl and deny her children. It's not going anywhere. You're just wasting here life. Be a player instead. But do not mislead good girls by promising her something you have no intention to fulfill. I hate guys who spoil good girls with marriage promise. There are enough girls in the world who have already stepped into the zone and are available for play.

So opinions, advice and comments given this type of "non-pro" garota scenario.

Read it and reap. Take it or leave it. But I know I am right.

[Spidy]

Sorry. This entire discussion started from one guy saying he paid $3000 to fly a hooker to London and trinkets for her and got fucked over. I said well get a non-pro girl for shit like that instead of a hooker for best results. I was not aware that the discussion had strayed from that original topic.

That is correct, as that discussion was mostly related to "hooker" talk in the Rio thread. However, the "non-pro", part of the conversation, I determined should be continued in the " Non-Pro Garotas. Opinions & Advice" thread, if anyone was interested.

I then posted:

As it turns out, I do have several questions related to dating / relationships with non-pro women, should you care to continue discussing the subject matter in the Brazil "Non-Pro Garotas. Opinions & Advice" thread.

My questions in this thread, were always related to "non-pros" or "non-pros vs monger" points of view.

If they tell me that is what it is then that is what it is.

Or first ask the question, to know it is what it is. Ok fair enough, it's not in your nature to snoop around, as you say.

Nor was I advocating snooping around. If for what ever reason, by confession or evidence "falls in your lap", then what?

Sure I love people and enjoy their company, but I still kind of live by the Gone in 60 Seconds mantra and realize that people come and go.]

Hey, no worries, if the subject topic isn't you your liking.

[The Cane]

So gentleman, in conclusion, the attached photo is what it's all about for a working girl. For many, many "non-working" girls too for that matter! Hahahaha!