Non-Pro Garotas - Opinions & Advice

[Stinky Squid]

Sorry to say that you are being played big time.

She is a gold digger.

Next step is that you'll go for amok in shopping. Hope that you have enough limit in your credit card.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice. I think you might be right, and I'll keep that in mind. She's in fact trying to meet at a shopping place. But I won't go for this. I'll suggest to meet for the beach and go for dinner afterwards. But not to the shop-land. This will be decided tomorrow, and I can restart my planned program if that change of plan causes things to break. So far so good.


Appendix:

Hmm, let's spell it out. Place is Nuth. Girl with mother. Very interested in finding out about my marital status. Still holding the possibility of me single, I score with very nice making out, wonderfully enjoyable kisses and cuddling. Besides that she displays modesty. I get to pay their exit because of her card that doesn't work. I break the truth at the end of the night (based on their persistent asking.) Some SMSing I profess my infatuation and she responds likewise. Date did not work out next night. But she proposes for the next afternoon at shopping place. Everything up to the last one looked good. The last one is of course a tell-tale sign. Possibly she changed her strategy after learning the truth. Well, I will give it a try. If she doesn't meet me in a commercial-free zone tomorrow night, I will proceed with plan A.

[Perkele]

Oh man, I had 2 more escort GPs that I was going to schedule. One was a complete unknown I was going to conquer and the other a well reputed one. I already had it all figured out, but now I lost my heart! What fun is this? I have connected with a girl with the cutest face in all of Brazil. And we sent love SMSs. Now instead of going ahead with my GP plans, what do I do? Wait for her to respond so we can meet. Wow, what a wonderful place this is! A date with the cutest girl ever! If I wasn't already, I would marry her next month. But the cool thing is, she has asked all about my family situation and received honest answers from me. And after all this, we're still SMSing and hopefully I'll still be seeing her tonight or tomorrow at the latest (well, hopefully anyway.) Good bye GPs, gotta be open for what cards life deals you every day.

Sorry to say that you are being played big time.

She is a gold digger.

Next step is that you'll go for amok in shopping. Hope that you have enough limit in your credit card.

Good luck.

[Stinky Squid]

Oh man, I had 2 more escort GPs that I was going to schedule. One was a complete unknown I was going to conquer and the other a well reputed one. I already had it all figured out, but now I lost my heart! What fun is this? I have connected with a girl with the cutest face in all of Brazil. And we sent love SMSs. Now instead of going ahead with my GP plans, what do I do? Wait for her to respond so we can meet. Wow, what a wonderful place this is! A date with the cutest girl ever! If I wasn't already, I would marry her next month. But the cool thing is, she has asked all about my family situation and received honest answers from me. And after all this, we're still SMSing and hopefully I'll still be seeing her tonight or tomorrow at the latest (well, hopefully anyway.) Good bye GPs, gotta be open for what cards life deals you every day.

[Sui Generis]

You must be joking. Concerning you expert opinons on Brasil, you should know that "laws" and "Brasil" is an antinomy.

What is sad about this matter of fact is that you're probably right.

[Prosal]

There are laws in Brazil

You must be joking. Concerning you expert opinons on Brasil, you should know that "laws" and "Brasil" is an antinomy.

[Sui Generis]

Get real.

Many times in Brasil, in posh "in" clubs, I have witnessed the bouncers, themselves people of color, exclude people trying to get in on the basis of race and not of supposed wealth.

Prosal,

And what is your interpretation of the case implying Grafite and an Argentinian futebol player that went to jail because of a racist slur?

There are laws in Brazil against racism (Law 7716/89). But here again it's mandatory to make the fine-grained distinction between racism and racialism.

Here's a text concenring this incident. (Concerning you expert opinons on Brazil it is obvious that you are fluent in that language...)

http://www.direitonet.com.br/artigos...ada-ou-racismo

[Prosal]

If you have money here (São Paulo) everything is fine, they don't see your color.

Get real.

Many times in Brasil, in posh "in" clubs, I have witnessed the bouncers, themselves people of color, exclude people trying to get in on the basis of race and not of supposed wealth.

[Jota Erre]

If you have money here (São Paulo) everything is fine, they don't see your color. But if you're broke you're a damn nigger.

That's probbly very accurate. And I admit that wealth is definitely more important than race in Brazil.

I also agree with Mr Enternational, when he writes "Brazil is the country with the second most number of black people on the planet".

It's probably true. Though he should say "mixed and black". Including all tones from black to "moreno".

And that's because, compared with the States, in Brazil, indians, portuguese, africans, italians, germans and japanese.. they all mixed somehow.

I'n not here to be judgemental. Each society evolves in it's own way. But it seems to me that if Brazil becomes a wealthy nation, racial limitations will be even more blurred.

[Sui Generis]

The crux of the matter boils down to the difference between racialism and racism.

You have to know a little of history of this country to understand where is the difference.
It's true that like other countries in the world there are sometimes expression of racism towards the Other.

Take for instance, in the beginning of the 20th Century, the case of the Italian migrants in Brazil. They were despised and called « carcamanos ». That attitude was also present in well know authors suc as Mario de Andrade, in Belazarte for instance, where he was truly against the rich Italians doing business in his country (like Matarazzo).

Plínio Salgado - inching towards fascism - in his novel O estrangeiro was also against a certain kind of stranger in Brazil.

The real issue concerns the fact that social status predominates over ethnic characters (racialism). One of my close friend, Dandara (a perfect name for a Black Brazilian like here because it's the name of the Zumbi dos Palmares' wife, the Black leader of a negro revolution in the 16th century) once said to me: If you have money here (São Paulo) everything is fine, they don't see your color. But if you're broke you're a damn nigger.

[Mr Enternational]

Why would you think that half of brazil is black? Not even close.

When I say black I include the brown people as well. That is to say people of African descent. The people such as myself, Barack Obama, and Tiger Woods, not just the Wesley Snipes and Bernie Macs. I often explain to many of my friends from Central and South America that that moreno/mulatto stuff goes out the window when you leave South America. When you go to North America, Europe, or Asia you are going to be seen as black. Brazil is the country with the second most number of black people on the planet. Number one is Nigeria.

"The biggest cruelty we face is invisibility, the feeling that we don't exist," said Benedita da Silva, the vice-governor of Rio de Janeiro state and before that the first black woman elected to Brazil's Senate.
"We make up half of the population, but for the most part we don't occupy decisive political and social positions," she said. "We live on the margins, in the ghettos where people can't see us."
Almost half of Brazil's 170 million people are "Afro-descendants"
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/...razil-race.htm

According to the 1991 Brazilian census, the racial or color composition of the population was 52 percent white, 42 percent brown, 5 percent black, 0.4 percent Asian, and 0.2 percent Indigenous. Moreno is an ambiguous descriptor of race that may be applicable to a large majority of Brazilians and represents a traditional ideology of universalism and non-racialism since the 1930s. Since moreno and negro also translate as brown and black...Unlike the US, color or race in Brazil refers primarily to appearance rather than descent. For example, white persons in Brazil may have black ancestors while in the US, a tradition of hypodescent defines whites as persons with no black precursors (Harris 1964). Color or race in Brazil refers primarily to one’s skin tone, hair texture and color, and facial features
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/soc/facul...dAmbiguity.pdf

As per the latest estimates, Brazil has a population of approximately 183.888 million people. Major ethnic groups include White – 53.7%, mixed white and black (mulatto) - 38.5% and others 0.9%. Other groups include Japanese, Arabs, Amerindians, unspecified – 0.7%.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...ed=0CDgQ9QEwBw

According to the 2006 census, Blacks are 7.4% or 12.908 million people of Brazil's population. Slavery in Brazil lasted for 350 years and brought nearly four million Africans to the country. Millions of Brazilians descend from Black slaves, although only twelve million are reported black by the IBGE. The number, however, is growing. According to IBGE, this trend is mainly because of the reevaluation of the identity of historically discriminated ethnic groups. The Pardos are a mixture of Europeans, Blacks and Amerindians. Brazil does not have a category for multiracial people, but a Pardo (brown) one, which may include mixed race, mulattos, and assimilated indigenous people ("caboclos"). The Pardos make up 42.6% or 79.782 million people of Brazil's population.
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demografia_do_Brasil

[KellySlater]

Why would you think that half of brazil is black?

Not even close.

[Golfinho]

observation.

Have you ever noticed that it is extremely important to brasilians to refer to their ancestry.

Most of the people I know do point out that they have ancestry in Europe. They make a big deal how their grandparents are italian, french, german, polish etc. That gives them more prestige.

Being european is big deal here, very big deal. Also if you know the country from where brasilian's family is from, you'll be even more accepted. Like my father-in-law, he's happy as pig in the shit since I married his daughter because I'm european. He's portuguese and its a big deal here. He has friends in such high positions that sometimes I'm really surprised. All this just because we have a passport that allows us to come and go as we please. Its a big deal here.

My experience confirms that observation. On another note, as a a former frequenter at Help, what used to happen was: leave with a darker girl and the next night the white ones would kid and joke around about it in the vein of: 'haha, you couldn't get a white one.' Is that racism? Who knows.

[DJ FourMoney]

I wouldn't say most Brazilians. But I would say most white Brazilians. The black ones have experienced the prejudice so they do not deny it. I have a good friend who is a teacher in Rio. When she was in high school she told the counselor that she wanted to be a flight attendant. She said the lady looked at her and told her to be serious. There were no chances of getting that job because she is black. Even today look around when you are on Tam and Gol. The chances of running into a black flight attendant are almost nil.

A couple of years ago the same friend applied to work at Club Med. She figured she was very qualified seeing that she has a degree in Physical Education. In the end no black people were selected.

My last year in graduate school my professor allowed me to attend the Sumaq Summit for International Business Strategies in Latin America. Among the people on the panel was a doctor from EAESP (Escola de Administracao de Empresas de Sao Paulo). Somehow the discussion turned to the marketing of hair care and beauty products in Brazil. One person in the audience stood up and asked why a certain company did not market their products to blacks. Seeing that half of Brazil is black it would only make sense (to the outsider) to market the products to them as well. The professor from Sao Paulo was caught off guard and tried to go around the question. That is when my professor made me stand up and explain the prejudice and economic disparity between black and white Brazilians.

The fact is and what the lady did not want to admit is that in general black Brazilians do not have money. They were not given the same opportunities coming out of slavery that blacks in the USA were given. Today the top 1% of Brazilians have 14% of the country's wealth, which is more money than the poorest 50% have. Most of this is old money and has come down from the days of the coffee and sugar barons. All in all, the company was not going to waste time, money, and resources marketing to blacks because there would be minimal return.

This site gives some figures on the racial disparities in Brazil's labor force http://www.globalrights.org/site/Doc...pdf?docID=3627
From the above site: Approximately two percent of roughly 1,060 diplomats, one of more than 100 generals, and eight of 600 members of the Federal Public Prosecution are black or brown.

Also take a look at the 100 most influential Brazilians of 2009. Each year that I see one of these lists I'm like damn. It is never representative of the Brazil I see when I walk down the street in any given Brazilian city. http://revistaepoca.globo.com/Revist...UENTES+DE.html

I find that terribly interesting, racial problems is Latin America are NEVER discussed in America for whatever reason, but it seem every imagine of "South Americans" in our media is of fair skin.

I was just curious... Thanks.

[Perkele]

observation.

Have you ever noticed that it is extremely important to brasilians to refer to their ancestry.

Most of the people I know do point out that they have ancestry in Europe. They make a big deal how their grandparents are italian, french, german, polish etc. That gives them more prestige.

Being european is big deal here, very big deal. Also if you know the country from where brasilian's family is from, you'll be even more accepted. Like my father-in-law, he's happy as pig in the shit since I married his daughter because I'm european. He's portuguese and its a big deal here. He has friends in such high positions that sometimes I'm really surprised. All this just because we have a passport that allows us to come and go as we please. Its a big deal here.

[Mr Enternational]

The most insidious thing about brasilian racial prejudice is that most brasilians tend to believe (and even often totally succeed in convincing themselves) the nationalist propaganda that Brasil does not really have a race problem.

Propaganda which is relayed by all the daydreamers gringos who see this country through rose tinted lenses and live in denial of the realities ...

I wouldn't say most Brazilians. But I would say most white Brazilians. The black ones have experienced the prejudice so they do not deny it. I have a good friend who is a teacher in Rio. When she was in high school she told the counselor that she wanted to be a flight attendant. She said the lady looked at her and told her to be serious. There were no chances of getting that job because she is black. Even today look around when you are on Tam and Gol. The chances of running into a black flight attendant are almost nil.

A couple of years ago the same friend applied to work at Club Med. She figured she was very qualified seeing that she has a degree in Physical Education. In the end no black people were selected.

My last year in graduate school my professor allowed me to attend the Sumaq Summit for International Business Strategies in Latin America. Among the people on the panel was a doctor from EAESP (Escola de Administracao de Empresas de Sao Paulo). Somehow the discussion turned to the marketing of hair care and beauty products in Brazil. One person in the audience stood up and asked why a certain company did not market their products to blacks. Seeing that half of Brazil is black it would only make sense (to the outsider) to market the products to them as well. The professor from Sao Paulo was caught off guard and tried to go around the question. That is when my professor made me stand up and explain the prejudice and economic disparity between black and white Brazilians.

The fact is and what the lady did not want to admit is that in general black Brazilians do not have money. They were not given the same opportunities coming out of slavery that blacks in the USA were given. Today the top 1% of Brazilians have 14% of the country's wealth, which is more money than the poorest 50% have. Most of this is old money and has come down from the days of the coffee and sugar barons. All in all, the company was not going to waste time, money, and resources marketing to blacks because there would be minimal return.

This site gives some figures on the racial disparities in Brazil's labor force http://www.globalrights.org/site/Doc...pdf?docID=3627

I can even prove it: look at the elected official in Brasil. Tell me how many are even Mallato!?

From the above site: Approximately two percent of roughly 1,060 diplomats, one of more than 100 generals, and eight of 600 members of the Federal Public Prosecution are black or brown.

Also take a look at the 100 most influential Brazilians of 2009. Each year that I see one of these lists I'm like damn. It is never representative of the Brazil I see when I walk down the street in any given Brazilian city. http://revistaepoca.globo.com/Revist...UENTES+DE.html