Non-Pro Garotas - Opinions & Advice

[Mr Enternational]

I think your getting bit off topic for the "Non-Pro-Garotas-Opinions-Advice" thread.

Sorry. This entire discussion started from one guy saying he paid $3000 to fly a hooker to London and trinkets for her and got fucked over. I said well get a non-pro girl for shit like that instead of a hooker for best results. I was not aware that the discussion had strayed from that original topic.

You do not know what someone does not want you to know. As I said before, it is not my personality to be digging around trying to find dirt on someone like some people from the board trying to hire private detectives and shit. If they tell me that is what it is then that is what it is. Sure I love people and enjoy their company, but I still kind of live by the Gone in 60 Seconds mantra and realize that people come and go.

[Spidy]

...If you use your money to get a chick, then you can not be surprised if a chick uses you for your money. But keep searching through a pile of shit to find that hooker with a heart of gold.

I think your getting bit off topic for the "Non-Pro-Garotas-Opinions-Advice" thread.

My arguments are centered around "non-pros" and when they ceased becoming "non-pros" and become "semi-pro / pros", given today's jet-fueled crazy environment (paraphrasing one your previous comments), specifically (but not limited to) the Brazilian GDP sub-culture (which I believe has been around for years), that a modicum to medium number of "non-pros", have in their past, used or dabbled in the profession, as a means to an end.

As I've outlined here:

Okay, maybe not, but I ask you to first consider the following:

Today, with more and more women, in Brazil (heck Latin America and heck worldwide), being in various deleterious circumstances and having to turn to prostitution, escorting, sponsorship

or "sugar babying" (basically at one-point or another, selling their bodies), to make ends-meet, to feed their families, or put themselves through schooling and eventually become dentists, lawyers, accountants, doctors...etc, often showcase they can and do go on to lead "normal" lives, in these new found professions.

And here:

With that said, it begs the questions, do you still label these women as ex-pros? Or do they become "non-pros"? If some ONLY do it for a few times are they still "non-pros"? What is a few times?

And here:

Since neither side would be silly enough to confess and these type of questions are never asked and would be totally inappropriate to do so, in a "non-pro" relationship, a mongerer can take solace and sleep soundly at night, knowing that she isn't in the least bit an "ex-pro" and that she is also soundly sleeping, knowing you are a not in the least bit an "ex-mongerer".

Sarcasm aside, point being you never really know, until you know.

And now here:

Could that be because she herself has perhaps, already dabbled in the profession in one manner or another? Or perhaps...

Let me bottom line it for you. Given what I've outlined here and previously. I'm arguing the following:

1) When mongerers are dating or in relationship with "non-pro" garotas, without hard evidence or a confession from said "non-pro" garota, is there anyway of knowing that she hasn't dipped "one pinky toe", into prostitution, in one form or other in her past life?

2) For the sake of argument, let's say hard evidence or a confession from said "non-pro" garota was established. What then?

A) Do I take a zero tolerance approach?

C) It was ONLY one time she says, so all is forgiven?

B) It was ONLY a couple times and that was years ago, so all is forgiven?

D) Is it, "once a hoe, always a hoe", even if it was just one time to pay for university, school, utility bills, food...etc?

E) She retaliates and fires-back, "Men pay to fuck hookers all the time, I bet you have in your past life". What do you say?

F) Do you confess or continue to be a hypocrite?

H) Do you now consider this "non-pro" garota, that you've known for several years and now has a stable job as a dentist, lawyer, accountant, doctor, clerk, secretary. Etc, now as just a "hoe"?

So opinions, advice and comments given this type of "non-pro" garota scenario.

[Spidy]

I think we all can agree to that.

Are there any remaining issues to solve?

Glad you asked. Any opinions on the following:

You are deluding yourself. Single guy traveling in Brazil is NOT doing it to "experience the arts and the culture". That's bullshit. No Brazilian chick believes that. And I have known my share of Brazilians girls, they are not prude about this stuff. Even my very straight and religious 7 year LTR.

Could that be because she herself has perhaps, already dabbled in the profession in one manner or another? Or perhaps (as I think you've mentioned) she knows or has a friend, aunt, cousin, sister or relative that's been in the profession? Hence word get around around about estrangeiros and in turn why your LTR, isn't that prudish this about this stuff?

To my point, it is all part of a Brazilian GDP sub culture, I think, where its not widely accepted, but it's tolerated, knowing that it hard for women of little means, to a find decent paying job, let alone good paying job and so it's widely known, but kept on the down low, that "non-pros", "good girls/women", will at times need to supplement their income, by selling their bodies?

[Stinky Squid]

Sarcasm aside, point being you never really know, until you know.

I think we all can agree to that.

Are there any remaining issues to solve?

[Mr Enternational]

Riddle me this, how many times does a woman have to fuck for money, before she's considered a hooker and no longer a "non-pro"?

Goes along with a couple of other age old questions. If every board of a ship is changed out, is it still the same ship?

If a dude fucks another dude once is he gay? How many times would he have to do it before he is considered gay and no longer straight? If a gay dude fucked a female once is he no longer gay? How many times would he have to do it to be considered straight?

If I did carpentry every day in the 90's, but in 2021 only do carpentry every blue moon, am I still considered a carpenter?

Maybe there are no absolutes, but there can be generalizations. And if you put all your eggs into a hooker's basket then you can generally not expect the best outcome.

[The Cane]

Forgot about the time that I was married and I came home about 3am on a weeknight from a friend's house. Was not doing anything but hanging out. When I got home and got in the bed, my wife got up and left the house. She came back later mad that I did not ask where she was going. I told her that she was a grown woman. If she wanted me to know where she was going then she would have told me. Then I rolled over and went back to sleep.

I used to have a girlfriend who would get upset because I would never show jealousy towards her. She would do things to try to make me act jealous, but I never would. I would say that I don't have time for childish nonsense. If you want to be with me, then you do. And if you don't, then you don't. And that's that. I eventually broke up with her immature ass. The fuck out of here!

[Mr Enternational]

And if, "Relationships are meaningful to different people for different reasons", why judge and tell BMs / mongers who they should date and have a meaningful relationship with at all?

Because life is a game of chances. If you feel you got fucked over by a hooker as the orignal poster wrote happened to him, then maybe it is time to try regular chicks for regular shit. Not to say you can not get fucked over by a regular chick, but the chances are lower.

It is like when the scorpion convinced the frog to take him across the river. Even the scorpion was like "Mf I am a damn scorpion, you did not see this coming?," when he killed the frog. Yet your vote is to carry scorpions across rivers?

In one video I posted below the woman was like mf I am a stripper, you did not see this coming, when the dude sued her for his money back.

There should be no surprises when a guy decides to deal with hookers. Same way people say to lock all your shit up before inviting a hooker to your room. Are they saying this because hookers are more likely to add to your value or because they are known to steal shit from you?

If you use your money to get a chick, then you can not be surprised if a chick uses you for your money. But keep searching through a pile of shit to find that hooker with a heart of gold.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kGde5zToFoE&t=77s

https://www.insideedition.com/millio...posed-on-65483

[Spidy]

I am sure that I will be all over with this response, but here goes.

Done with a response... "it's up to you", as they say in SEA.

Absolution and its many forms...

Third, well I guess that depends on your point of view. Perhaps it is you who is trying to find absolution with a "non-pro" and you who is hiding a life long guilt, for fucking hoards of hookers, from all around the world?

If mongerers don't feel "guilty" about fucking women for money, why should a women feel "guilty" working and fucking for her money, in a past life.

I think I am an outlier here in many ways. I am more of a player and less of a monger. I have fucked way more chicks that are not hookers than chicks that are. ...

Can you quantify that for me? So how many hookers does a man, fuck for money before he's no longer considered a player / man and becomes a monger? How or when does one go from player mode to monger mode?

Riddle me this, how many times does a woman have to fuck for money, before she's considered a hooker and no longer a "non-pro"?

This all plays into what I've posted (below) to Stinky Squid, clarifying my argument, which I'd hoped to post sooner, but anyways.

What is a meaningful relationship? There are different strokes for different folks. What may be right for some may not be right for others. . . .

Relationships are meaningful to different people for different reasons.

I've always advocated this throughout my ISG posting history. If you can point to a post were I've ever given a unsolicited critique of a BM and their relationship to a "non-pro" or "ex-pro" (or for that matter a "semi-pro, "pro") then I will stand corrected.

So for a shoe to be on the other foot you are assuming that the guy can not handle the same things from a woman that he himself does. First I would say, why does he have to? In a fairy tale equal goose and gander society then maybe so. But this place is not as equal as some would have you believe

Sure the world is unfair and their will always be bullies, if left unchecked. If you choose to be a hypocrite and treat your women with, "life isn't fair, so eat it", "my way or the highway" prehistoric "Agent Orange" macho, machismo bullshit and that works for you, then go head, you do you, by all means. No judgement here with regards to how you manage your relationships. The world is after all how we choose to see it.

As you've made it painfully clear:

...And who said there was anything wrong with being a hypocrite or changing?

Change only comes for those willing to change.

I could go on forever, but hopefully you get the idea.

Please free to go on. This topic interests me greatly.

That topic being, relationships with "non-pros" garotas, since we are in the "Non-Pro" thread and in the mind of a monger, what he may or may not view as a "non-pro" garota.

[Spidy]

...Here is how this works: it is extremely hard to reform a puta. Unless you "saved" her early in the game. Once she is experienced, she is no longer LTR material except if you expect the LTR to have a set expiration date of a year or two. ...

So no, there is no equality here. And the issue isn't the past, the issue is how the past affects the future. ...

You make some interesting points, albeit tough for me to decipher at times.

I was looking to post this earlier, to hopefully somewhat clarify my argument, as to what some BMs see as a "non-pro", as we were being told (from BMs in the Rio thread) to stop trying to find relationships with "ex-pros" and "pros" and to find a get a girlfriend with a "non-pro". Hence I am trying to get a feel for what in the mind of a monger, constitutes or is considered a "non-pro" relationship?

As Mr V, puts it:

The point of this missive is that Mr. E was spot on right, stop trying to find a meaningful relationship with hookers. Or ex hookers.

As Mr E, puts it:

Easy solution is to stop trying to date hookers and find a normal girlfriend. ... I have been with my girlfriend for 4 years and she has never asked me for shit. . . .

And Here:

So if your idea of a meaningful relationship is Ward and June Cleaver, then 2021 has a rude awakening for you. Relationships are meaningful to different people for different reasons.

And if, "Relationships are meaningful to different people for different reasons", why judge and tell BMs / mongers who they should date and have a meaningful relationship with at all?

So on the one hand you should stop dating hookers and ex-hookers, but yet if you choose to define your normal "non-pro" meaningful relationship as looking like Ward and June Cleaver, then you're in for a rude awakening. So what now? Do mongerers reading this go back to dating hookers?

Okay, maybe not, but I ask you to first consider the following:

Today, with more and more women, in Brazil (heck Latin America and heck worldwide), being in various deleterious circumstances and having to turn to prostitution, escorting, sponsorship or "sugar babying" (basically at one-point or another, selling their bodies), to make ends-meet, to feed their families, or put themselves through schooling and eventually become dentists, lawyers, accountants, doctors...etc, often showcase they can and do go on to lead "normal" lives, in these new found professions.

With that said, it begs the questions, do you still label these women as ex-pros? Or do they become "non-pros"? If some ONLY do it for a few times are they still "non-pros"? What is a few times?

Or is it as Cane says:

Once a tute, always a tute. And once a monger, always a monger!

Look, one of the tenants for dating a "non-pro", is that we all assume she's a non-pro, unless we find evidence to the contrary or she confesses to playing some role in the profession. Also naturally, she would assume the same about us, unless she finds evidence to the contrary or we confess.

Which is poignantly expressed by Cane:

"Somethings are better left unsaid as nothing good can come from revealing them."

And seconded by Xpartan:

"Under no circumstances should a monger confess to a nonpro. That would be a no starter, IMHO."

Since neither side would be silly enough to confess and these type of questions are never asked and would be totally inappropriate to do so, in a "non-pro" relationship, a mongerer can take solace and sleep soundly at night, knowing that she isn't in the least bit an "ex-pro" and that she is also soundly sleeping, knowing you are a not in the least bit an "ex-mongerer".

Sarcasm aside, point being you never really know, until you know.

[Spidy]

Under no circumstances should a monger confess to a nonpro. That would be a no starter, IMHO.

Thought it was funny how you used the word "confess" as if us mongerers, were attending church. ...kkkk

[Stinky Squid]

First off, it's not true. "Normal" tourists still come to Brazil and for a good reason -- there are plenty to see. But an even better way is to tell them you're on a business trip and come frequently (do some research on the net to back up your story).

Yeah sure, like business travel inhibits a man from doing extracurricular activities. There is no way you're going to be believed and why should you lie about it.

Under no circumstances should a monger confess to a nonpro. That would be a no starter, IMHO.

You are deluding yourself. Single guy traveling in Brazil is NOT doing it to "experience the arts and the culture". That's bullshit. No Brazilian chick believes that. And I have known my share of Brazilians girls, they are not prude about this stuff. Even my very straight and religious 7 year LTR.

Seriously, why not just enjoy the best fun city in the world? Mongering and committed relationships don't mix (in my limited experience).

You are not thinking straight whether that means too much or to little is neither here nor there. I did not say that the two lives "mix" although as Mr. Entertainment says, it completely depends on whether you are upfront out the barn or if you beat around the Bush. I have not yet mixed them but this year I am intending to do so whatever happens.

[Mr Enternational]

Just checking that logic of yours for a second, if the shoe were on the other foot.

Forgot about the time that I was married and I came home about 3am on a weeknight from a friend's house. Was not doing anything but hanging out. When I got home and got in the bed, my wife got up and left the house. She came back later mad that I did not ask where she was going. I told her that she was a grown woman. If she wanted me to know where she was going then she would have told me. Then I rolled over and went back to sleep.

[Mr Enternational]

...Continued from the Rio thread.

Just checking that logic of yours for a second, if the shoe were on the other foot.

So I guess when it comes time for an ex-mongerer (or sometimes still engaged hobbyist), to have a meaningful relationship with non-pro women (assuming of course, that she knows / knew you paid to fuck hookers on the regular), should they too avoid us like the plague?

Or is this "right", only reserved for men?

Point being, I wonder how many non-pro women would still want to have a meaningful relationship with guys, if they knew our past / recent history, where we've paid to fuck hookers on the regular?

And if they do know and still want to be with us, then do they get what they deserve when shit happens?

I am sure that I will be all over with this response, but here goes. I think I am an outlier here in many ways. I am more of a player and less of a monger. I have fucked way more chicks that are not hookers than chicks that are. I did not choose this shit, this shit chose me. All you can do is be yourself. Don't try to be someone that you are not. All the stuff here that I talk about doing is just my personality and may not be right for you. So although you can copy what someone does, you may not get the same outcomes that they are able to get.

What is a meaningful relationship? There are different strokes for different folks. What may be right for some may not be right for others. Take for instance today's young crowd. I feel like a fish out of water when it comes to them. I was recently in Seattle and perusing Tinder. I constantly saw so much shit that was so crazy to me that I had to get off of that shit because I literally thought I was going to have nightmares about it. It is like there is no ordinary boy - girl shit anymore. Everybody is pansexual and all kind of other shit that as a linguist I can not even pronounce. That shit seems like a circus or freak show to me, but to them I am sure it is just another day. So if your idea of a meaningful relationship is Ward and June Cleaver, then 2021 has a rude awakening for you. Relationships are meaningful to different people for different reasons..

So for a shoe to be on the other foot you are assuming that the guy can not handle the same things from a woman that he himself does. First I would say, why does he have to? In a fairy tale equal goose and gander society then maybe so. But this place is not as equal as some would have you believe. As I said, some people can get away with things that some other people can not. Donald Trump could get away with grabbing them by the pussy, but it ended up not working out so well for Harvey Weinstein.

So whether you want to say it is hypocritical or whatever, it is simply playing one's part. I am 5'9". Why them NBA mfs won't lower the rim so that I can dunk the ball too? It ain't fair I tell you! Why is this right only reserved for them? Everything is not for everybody. I know that is not my lane, so I am not trying to travel in it.

As I said, I am an outlier here. It seems most guys try to hide who they are and what they do while I do not. I have not seen any repercussions in my life because of how I move. Most guys here seem to think there would be nuclear fallout from doing some of the things I do on a daily basis. So these are episodes from my life:

Most guys say you can not tell a normal Dominican chick that you are going to Sosua because it is known for hookers. I have invited many a normal Dominican chick from other cities to visit me while I was in Sosua. Nobody hollered out eeeek no not Sosua you dirty bastard. They came and we had great times.

I think it was April when I happened to be in Santo Domingo the same time as my brother, 2 cousins, and 1 cousin's wife was there. We were sitting at Manolo's restaurant and they decided they wanted to see some hookers. Now I am with a non-pro chick. But my personality is fuck it. I drove around to show them the street walkers and we stopped to talk shit to them. Then I took them to a cat house where I know the owner. Later on my girl said that she was sad that I could know such places. I told her that is real life. It was just yesterday that she was telling me to come fuck her and how much she wants me.

I crossed the border from Tijuana into San Diego and the immigration officer asked me what I was doing in Mexico. I said fucking them hoes. He said welcome back. It seems most guys on this board try to pass off some bullshit doctor's appointment as their reason for going, like they do not really know the truth and probably do the same thing on their days off.

I took a White female coworker to Tijuana and after we met up with a board member whose birthday it was, me and her got a street chick together that I paid $20 for. I will attach a pic here where she is sucking candy or something off a chick's nipple in Hong Kong and the waiter is posing and giving thumbs up, while most mfs would be scared to even pull out a camera or let someone know he has even heard of a place called Hong Kong. And I did not even know this chick went or wanted to go both ways until we walked into that club and she started talking about her fantasy. Well call me Aladin, because I am about to make your wish come true.

I took my mom and 2 of her sisters to Lucifer hooker disco on Walking Street in Pattaya.

My dad said that if he had known about all the places we have been mongering when he was younger then he never would have gotten married. He still goes whenever he gets a chance though and several board members have met my dad.

A non-pro chick that I mess with in Pattaya likes to say that I am always out fucking bitches. I tell her they are not bitches, you are my only biotch.

I am fucking a waitress that lives in the same apartments that I live in in Pattaya. One morning I was taking a chick back home that had spent the night. We passed in opposite directions on our motorbikes. She later sent me a message saying how sad she was to see me with another chick. I said first of all you should not have been looking. Second of all, what time are you coming tonight?

A non-pro chick that I mess with in Pattaya was leaving my place one morning. A White guy that also lives there (don't know if he is American or European), walked out the same time as she did. She later sent me a message saying that guy told her that I have a different chick over every night. She said she told him that I should because I am a handsome guy. Don't know why he called himself throwing a monkey wrench in my shit, but it did not work.

I don't have a need to clean up when one chick leaves. If the next chick comes and talks about how she sees some hair from another girl I tell her that is why she is fucking here, to clean the shit up.

My main girlfriend in Brazil says that as long as I am all hers when we are together. So evidently she finds our relationship to be meaningful since she has been catering the heck to me for the last 4 years.

Nurse chick in Curitiba just loves licking my ass like she is an alchemist trying to turn shit into gold. She said that those other girls can have my dick just as long as she can have my ass. I will not dare disappoint her.

When I meet a woman and she says that she does not want a man that is just looking for sex, I tell her the closest place to her that has hookers and say if I was just looking for sex then I could just go there and pay usually what is some amount much less than they expected hookers to cost (as Stinky Squid was even saying).

I could go on forever, but hopefully you get the idea. There is no shoe going on other feet. The shoe fits the foot that it belongs on as it did in the Cinderella story; any other mf is not going to be comfortable walking in it.

[Vagabundo1]

I received an interesting PM on this subject.

Here was my response.

Some Women in the rich world I know love Brazilian men, compliment them.

I imagine a lot of swinger couples would be quite happy to come to Brazil to spice up their marriage.

I met the owner / operators of this site.

https://www.swinger-blog.xxx/

At the AVN convention in Las Vegas, in 2020.

It would be probably pretty easy to get a pipeline of swinger couples who want to come here to Brazil for the talent.

Many of my favorite Brazilian girls like to go to a swing club, which is available at Botafogo, the 2 a2 club, etc, or at a lower cost point, essentially what a nude beach with nearby jungle is.

There are definitely female sex tourists, and we male sex tourists could very easily partner up if we can offer language and cultural translation skills.

[Vagabundo1]

There are definitely female sex tourists, and we male sex tourists could very easily partner up if we can offer language and cultural translation skills.

There are women who come to Brazil, especially during Carnaval, with the same idea that we have except they do not intend to pay. Here is how that plays out, at least for me: She may be alone or with a couple of like minded friends. They have seen or heard about the well-built Brazilian guys and have their sights set. However, what they did not plan on was how few of those guys speak English or just how intimidating it can be when you are in another country. This is where you step in. You know Rio, you know Portuguese, you know how to be both naughty and nice. I hooked up with a dentist from Mexico whom I met at the hotel breakfast. Smile, be friendly, let them hear you speak Portuguese to the locals. The dentist actually approached me. Also, do not overlook the benefits from being liked by the hotel staff. Even in Brazil they are not going to give you someone's room number, but they will tell you if they have seen a man with that attractive woman waiting in the lobby. I hooked up with a Chinese tourist in Australia by scheduling the same tour. Be creative and adventurous. Do be sure to wear flame retardant clothing, because there will be some crashing and burning. But, of course, we all know they were lesbians. Think this way, what have you got to lose. If you get shot down, happiness is only a hot Brazilian away.