Dnipropetrovsk

[Bobus2568]

New site in Donetsk:

Look a new site http://www.elitegroup.dp.ua/

[Alucard101]

Hello,

Does anyone have contact information from Nilia who worked months ago for Gia.com.ua?

Thanks for any info!

[DJ FourMoney]

1. So what? What is your estimation of black money effect on girls' attitude?

2. They see us in positive way because they have illusions about the West. They think for example that the usual salary in Western Europe is 10000 euro per month.

3. I wrote you in some cities they want to leave, in some others they do not want to leave. They do not want to leave if they stay in Kiev, they are less likely to leave if they stay in Dnipro, they are more likely to want to leave if they come from Krivoy Rog, Lugansk, Mariupol etc.

I couldn't agree more, just follow the popular Marriage Agencies...

Women in Moscow, St Pete, Minsk and Kiev would still like to leave. Maybe not as many as in the 90's but far more wanna leave than there are Western men serious enough to even visit the country in which they are from.

Sometimes I don't know what the focus of this broad is sometimes. On one side I think there are a few (myself included) that are serious about a LTR with a Eastern European woman and only dabble in P4P. Others are interested in chasing mainly freebies and only turning to P4P when that fails or they are bored by their current roster in their black book.

Some of are desperate to get any pussy at all and they think going to some remote part of a country will guarantee affordable services.

For the expense and trouble to get into Russia is, just go to Germany....

Kiev still is a better hunting ground for Freebies, STR or LTR women than many Western destinations, for whatever that is worth...

[Tits_Lover]

Hello sexpert mongers from UKR .... Do you recall this girl being working at GIA in the past ? Any idea/memory about her services ?
I saw her appearing in Vilnius recently ...

Sorry .... i posted in the wrong area .... it should belong to Kiev probably.

thx
TL

[Hecker]

1. I do not agree Hecker. In a ukrainian company of 10 people probably 5 are paid black, 3 grey (on the white payroll but for a much lower salary) and 2 white. The black economy is all over society from high to low, so not only in the top. See World Bank reports about corruption in UA.

2. We were not discussing what is yes or no the good attitude of men towards women, but how they see us.

3. Whether or not somebody wants to leave, is influenced by economic matters of course. But it is only one of many factors. Ukraine is probably one of the worst managed countries in Europe. The people in power only care about that power and filling their pockets. Almost nothing is invested in the community but only for private profit. Any court can be bought. Serious problems regarding energy and pollution. Still not a wonderful country to live!

But I agree with D Skank, they is a big difference between saying that you think about leaving, really having a plan and actually acting according to that plan. But isn't that everywhere? Leaving your own country for emigration is too big a step for most people unless they are very desperate.

1. So what? What is your estimation of black money effect on girls' attitude?

2. They see us in positive way because they have illusions about the West. They think for example that the usual salary in Western Europe is 10000 euro per month.

3. I wrote you in some cities they want to leave, in some others they do not want to leave. They do not want to leave if they stay in Kiev, they are less likely to leave if they stay in Dnipro, they are more likely to want to leave if they come from Krivoy Rog, Lugansk, Mariupol etc.

[Fslag338]

1. I do not agree Hecker. In a ukrainian company of 10 people probably 5 are paid black, 3 grey (on the white payroll but for a much lower salary) and 2 white. The black economy is all over society from high to low, so not only in the top. See World Bank reports about corruption in UA.

2. We were not discussing what is yes or no the good attitude of men towards women, but how they see us.

3. Whether or not somebody wants to leave, is influenced by economic matters of course. But it is only one of many factors. Ukraine is probably one of the worst managed countries in Europe. The people in power only care about that power and filling their pockets. Almost nothing is invested in the community but only for private profit. Any court can be bought. Serious problems regarding energy and pollution. Still not a wonderful country to live!
But I agree with D Skank, they is a big difference between saying that you think about leaving, really having a plan and actually acting according to that plan. But isn't that everywhere? Leaving your own country for emigration is too big a step for most people unless they are very desperate.

[Hecker]

I am coming to Ukraine every month since i have a business here since 3 years. I have had a beautiful girlfriend 23 years younger than i am. So I know a little also how they think about foreigners. And I am missing afew points in the discussion here:

* statistics: how reliable are government statistics in a country with an enormous black and grey circuit?

* attitude: what i am missing and is really a very important issue: they value foreigners (especially western europeans) for the way they treat women (modern thinking, emancipated, polite etc). Many Ukrainian-russian men are rude in their behaviour towards women.

* leaving UA: most of the girls I have become to know over the years would love to leave. Reason: although life is getting better... low purchasing power, visa needed for almost everywhere, attitude towards women, bad politics etc... stil not a country where you would love to have your kids grow up.

But many of them also do not understand the negatives of living abroad and only think about the advantages.

1.Statistics.Government statistics are reliable regarding wages of average people.You add 40% black economy to count wages of rich people.

2.Attitude.In my opinion slavic attitude is better especially in the long term.A westerner is usually in the wrong frame of mind overvaluing women.It is better to keep their expectations low as Slavs do.

3.Leaving UA.In some places they want to leave.In other cities they do not want to leave.You have to search level of unemployment and magnitude of wages to find out in what cities are they likely to want to leave.

[Doctor_Skank]

I am coming to Ukraine every month since i have a business here since 3 years. I have had a beautiful girlfriend 23 years younger than i am. So I know a little also how they think about foreigners. And I am missing afew points in the discussion here:

* statistics: how reliable are government statistics in a country with an enormous black and grey circuit?

* attitude: what i am missing and is really a very important issue: they value foreigners (especially western europeans) for the way they treat women (modern thinking, emancipated, polite etc). Many Ukrainian-russian men are rude in their behaviour towards women.

* leaving UA: most of the girls I have become to know over the years would love to leave. Reason: although life is getting better... low purchasing power, visa needed for almost everywhere, attitude towards women, bad politics etc... stil not a country where you would love to have your kids grow up.
But many of them also do not understand the negatives of living abroad and only think about the advantages.

All true, good post. Only part I would differ on is the leaving aspect. I wouldn't say most want to leave... or better said, most don't have a realistic plan to leave. They might fantasize about it, but if it really came that they had a chance to leave many would stick with what they know and stay in UA.

[Fslag338]

I am coming to Ukraine every month since i have a business here since 3 years. I have had a beautiful girlfriend 23 years younger than i am. So I know a little also how they think about foreigners. And I am missing afew points in the discussion here:

* statistics: how reliable are government statistics in a country with an enormous black and grey circuit?

* attitude: what i am missing and is really a very important issue: they value foreigners (especially western europeans) for the way they treat women (modern thinking, emancipated, polite etc). Many Ukrainian-russian men are rude in their behaviour towards women.

* leaving UA: most of the girls I have become to know over the years would love to leave. Reason: although life is getting better... low purchasing power, visa needed for almost everywhere, attitude towards women, bad politics etc... stil not a country where you would love to have your kids grow up.
But many of them also do not understand the negatives of living abroad and only think about the advantages.

[DJ FourMoney]

Hecker, the club girl dynamic is the same around the world. You missed out observing that dynamic because you probably weren't hitting Western clubs in your late teens/twenties. It has nothing at all to do with FSU/Foreigners. You are just basing your observations on your limited experience.

Most FSU girls don't spend their free time in front of computer - that is what work and a free internet connection is for.

Yes Club Girls are the same the world over I don't think culture has much to do with it.

That being said, Discos/Clubs are used as a tool for "Normal" women to get out and meet local men and on occasion foreign men. In Kiev I think its safe to say the majority of foreign men local women tend to meet are Western Europeans and very seldom Americans.

Outside of Kiev, that's reduced down to almost nothing especially since this is the Dnipropetrovsk thread and I can only speak about the comings and goings of Americans.

Most Americans coming to Dnipro are there to meet somebody usually from a agency or a web site. I would say most of them are well into their 30's if not in their early 40's and 98% Caucasian.

I too would like to venture deeper into the Ukraine, not sure it would be worth my effort though as the smaller the towns get the less likely English is spoken, which of course is not a deal breaker but does make things a bit more diffcult and ensures the involvement of a 3rd party for communitcations....

Oh well nothing ventured as they say....

[Cruiser D]

Hecker, the club girl dynamic is the same around the world. You missed out observing that dynamic because you probably weren't hitting Western clubs in your late teens/twenties. It has nothing at all to do with FSU/Foreigners. You are just basing your observations on your limited experience.

Most FSU girls don't spend their free time in front of computer - that is what work and a free internet connection is for.

[Orange Leo]

I think it is the fewest Ukraine girls which come back to Ukraine. Many divorce the men and live as single mothers where i live.

[Hecker]

There are two types of girls. Club girls and librarian types. Club girls are in many cases more difficult because they usually have attention deficit disorder. They cannot concentrate more than one minute on what you tell them. They need constant change and new stimulants to keep their mood high.

These girls are only interested in the foreigner as long as he spends money to keep them high spirited, that is money on drinks, shopping, their friends and so on. They are not interested in the foreigner himself but in the comfort he can provide and in many cases they do not combine the foreigner with the comfort he provides, that is they look down on him as worthless and get banged from real men.

For sure club girls are the worst around and most foreigners are likely to meet them in clubs in Kiev. There are also other common features with club girls like phone number flakes the next day after the meeting in club and a lot of excitability.

Internet girls do not usually belong to club girls because to stay in internet long as to make contacts you need a minimum of attention which club girls are lacking. On the other hand internet girls can be weird cause of isolation through the long hours in front of computer. Sth is not right with many of them, they are very weak and vulnerable and can be run over and cheated easily.

The street girls are the most normal and casual because they have normal day time activities. Anyway all this is another issue.

The more culture a girl has, the easier is to talk to and the greater is to build rapport with. You can talk with her about a wide variety of things and in depth as to build rapport. Girls from former communist countries have generally high culture due to widespread education. They go to opera, theatre, they visit galleries and museums, they read books etc. There is not so much materialism and antiintellectualism as it is rampant in the West although the situation gradually changes. So if sb speaks the language, has a normal culture and knows the slavic mentality, he will have no problem picking up girls very fast.

[DJ FourMoney]

I agree Doc, culture shock and being away from family is generally what sends FSU girls packing back to the motherland.

A Ukrainian girl I know has said this at various times, 'Lugansk is boring', 'Kyiv is boring', 'Boston is boring'. I'm sure she would also find Vegas, LA or NYC boring too. Unless someone was constantly entertaining her. What I conclude from all this is 1) She's high maintence 2) She's boring.

You also have to remember that being club trawlers we are exposed to a certain sub set of people. Trust me there is just as much fun to be had tonight (it's Saturday) in provincal Boston as there is in Kyiv or Moscow (nevermind NYC, Miami, LA or LV). For a party girl (the type of girl we most commonly expose ourselves to - pun intended) in Moscow or Kyiv she's going to get bored anywhere where someone isn't fueling the good times with a boatload of money. With the right connections and/or money it just as easy to rock the boat in Detroit as it is in Moscow. So for Joe OlderMiddleClass, it probaby isn't a good idea to hook up with a vapid FSU club girl (or a club girl from anywhere for the matter). People tend to make their own situations in life. I like to use this phrase often, it's a catch phrase from my clubbing days in the 80's - Know who you are and dress accordingly. People need to be aware of who they are (if it was only that easy ). Miss Moscow CandyClubGirl isn't going to be happy living a normal life (anywhere) until she starts to get burned out in her late 20's. She'll only be happy if she's highlining - whether it's in Moscow, London, NYC, LA or Duluth.

Hecker - a serious girl is a serious girl. It doesn't matter if she's from Kyiv or Mariuopol. Is a Kyiv club girl going to be happy being married to Joe Serious, no. She's also not going to be happy be married to Yuri Serious in Kyiv either. Is super educated Kyiv smart girl looking to settle down and have a family life going to be happy to Joe Serious - whether it's in Detriot, Koln, Toulouse or Kyiv/Moscow? Sure she is, that is what she is looking for.

Give that man a cigar....

Western men have come over to the FSU and killed the "free pussy" market with lies and more lies. 10-15 years later and those too young to travel internationally 10-15 years ago want the same treatment many Western men glorified (over glorified as well) from days gone by.

I found a serious girl in Kiev, it isnt that hard...

Is she CandyClubGirl pretty - NO!

But I bet you can find something between CandyClub and No So Hot Serious Woman, that is if you want to have a serious LTR...


And as D said it doesn't matter if she's in The Natti, Krakow or Sacramento

[Cruiser D]

I agree Doc, culture shock and being away from family is generally what sends FSU girls packing back to the motherland.

A Ukrainian girl I know has said this at various times, 'Lugansk is boring', 'Kyiv is boring', 'Boston is boring'. I'm sure she would also find Vegas, LA or NYC boring too. Unless someone was constantly entertaining her. What I conclude from all this is 1) She's high maintenance 2) She's boring.

You also have to remember that being club trawlers we are exposed to a certain sub set of people. Trust me there is just as much fun to be had tonight (it's Saturday) in provincal Boston as there is in Kyiv or Moscow (nevermind NYC, Miami, LA or LV). For a party girl (the type of girl we most commonly expose ourselves to - pun intended) in Moscow or Kyiv she's going to get bored anywhere where someone isn't fueling the good times with a boatload of money. With the right connections and/or money it just as easy to rock the boat in Detroit as it is in Moscow. So for Joe OlderMiddleClass, it probaby isn't a good idea to hook up with a vapid FSU club girl (or a club girl from anywhere for the matter). People tend to make their own situations in life. I like to use this phrase often, it's a catch phrase from my clubbing days in the 80's - Know who you are and dress accordingly. People need to be aware of who they are (if it was only that easy ). Miss Moscow CandyClubGirl isn't going to be happy living a normal life (anywhere) until she starts to get burned out in her late 20's. She'll only be happy if she's highlining - whether it's in Moscow, London, NYC, LA or Duluth.

Hecker - a serious girl is a serious girl. It doesn't matter if she's from Kyiv or Mariuopol. Is a Kyiv club girl going to be happy being married to Joe Serious, no. She's also not going to be happy be married to Yuri Serious in Kyiv either. Is super educated Kyiv smart girl looking to settle down and have a family life going to be happy to Joe Serious - whether it's in Detriot, Koln, Toulouse or Kyiv/Moscow? Sure she is, that is what she is looking for.