2007 Thai Women - Opinions & Advice

[M P Lurker]

Jungle Bluebird: "Thais have the uncanny ability to mess up fully functioning, good things. This talent extends to family matters."

JB, I have lived and worked in many places all around the world. Leave out the word "Thais" in your quote and insert andy nationality you wish. It works. Trust me.

Caanadians have the uncanny ability
Russians have the uncanny ability
South Africans have the uncanny ability
Brits have the uncanny ability
etc...

Animby,

Why do many Thai construction companies hire a Farang forum to oversee the work? To make sure it gets done properly (not fucked up).

How many Thais does it take to sell someone a simple item in a department store? (Just one person in the west).

Its easy to see the strong cultural differences from the west.

On the other hand I like to work in Europe, excluding the U.K. and I don't like to work in USA much.
Why?
In the USA and U.K., people are always finding excuses not to take action. They are basically lazy and don't work very hard (this coming from myself, a lazy person).
I find other European countries better for getting things done like Germany, Austria, Holland, etc.
I work in IT (large Computer systems).

Overall we see that not all countries are the same.
The work ethic and standards of quality vary greatly.

[Terry Terrier]

Jungle Bluebird: "Thais have the uncanny ability to mess up fully functioning, good things. This talent extends to family matters."


JB, I have lived and worked in many places all around the world. Leave out the word "Thais" in your quote and insert andy nationality you wish. It works. Trust me.

Caanadians have the uncanny ability
Russians have the uncanny ability
South Africans have the uncanny ability
Brits have the uncanny ability
etc...

He won't understand. Thick as fuck. That's why he's an expat in a third world country.

Any updates on the office politics, JB?

[PinkPearl]

I guess this is an aspect of the culture of which you are unaware. There are in fact two kinds of marriage here. There's the legal kind that involves going to the registry office and getting a marriage certificate. Then, there's the kind that will totally satisfy the girl and her family (much more so, actually), but leave you legally free. This is the traditional Thai wedding, performed by a monk, celebrated by family and friends and not legally binding in any way. This is includes of course the traditional engagement ceremony where you give the family 'sin sord' (dowry) so that they can show off to the village what a good catch you are. With a girl from a good family this is all for show. They don't keep the money. This will be the case with my GF and I. So, she gets her marriage and saves face with family and friends and I still, in effect have my freedom. If it doesn't work out, I can simply walk away without any legal obligation, whatsoever.

Why do you think there are so many single mothers in this country with no support from the husband? Most marriages here are still of the traditional kind and therefore the man can just walk away when he wants to. The legal registration of marriage is a relatively recent thing (mainly the last 25 or 30 years) and is mostly only practiced in the city. It is totally voluntary. Upcountry marriages are almost exclusively of the traditional kind and have no legal basis at all. Even when legal, the laws are incredibly weak. There is no community property, no alimony, and no support in anyway, if the marriage ends in a divorce. For example, if the house is in the man's name, he can throw out the wife. She has no legal recourse, whatsoever. The only issue in a traditional vs. legal marriage is one of child custody. In a traditional marriage the mother always has custody. But, in a legal marriage, the father can claim custody, as well (although few Thai men would ever do this).

Could one gain resident status by marrying a TG, whether the marriage
is for love or to live in LOS? If so that could save Farangs the hassle of constant VISA runs.

[PinkPearl]

1. In fact the only true ethnic Thais are the central plains Thais centred around Bangkok.

2. While it is true that the Chinese have risen to be the power elite in most cases, they a relative newcomers. The true power is still in the hands of the old Thai families that may have some Chinese blood, but who are predominantly Thai and who go back 500+ years or so.

3. While white skin certainly is the aesthetic nirvana to which all Thai women aspire, it is not all that guarantees being in the elite. The Royal Family itself are somewhat dark-skinned by comparison to the ideal and it hasn't hurt them any.

1. Would these be the lighter or darker skinned Thais?

2. Are you speaking of political, monetary, military, or moral power?

To me many TGs look oriental, some Japanese, others Chinese. Many look like something else, maybe E. Indian, maybe a Canadian caucasian with a suntan.

3. While in the West fair skinned ladies frequent beaches and tanning salons seeking the Thai skin colour. Personally I prefer whited skinned girls with blond hair, but I have seen very few blond TGs here. Red heads are much more common in the NEP area.

[Animby]

Jungle Bluebird: "Thais have the uncanny ability to mess up fully functioning, good things. This talent extends to family matters."


JB, I have lived and worked in many places all around the world. Leave out the word "Thais" in your quote and insert andy nationality you wish. It works. Trust me.

Caanadians have the uncanny ability
Russians have the uncanny ability
South Africans have the uncanny ability
Brits have the uncanny ability
etc...

[NicFrenchy]

he must save money instead of drinking and gambling as most Thai men do

It seems to me you forgot that they also have to pay for their giks (and I think they each have more than 1 gik on the side). Once he'll get married, he will most probably have a mia Noi too. And, let me guess, he could easily have a kid in Thailand somewhere nobody knows about.

[Brasco]

Bargirls are social outcasts and if they are lucky to get some hapless Farang to actually marry them, they or their families should not expect anything more (although they'll certainly demand it).

Some of the families never find out what their daughter is doing if she doesnt
show up in her hometown with a Farang. They usually think she is working as
a shop assistant, hotel derk or so. And they propably dont seek for the truth
as long as she is sending them some money.

[Freeler]

Opebo,

Cheer up!
Haven't you heard that Lonely Planet recently voted US citizens one of the nicest, friendliest and most hospitable people on Mother Earth?
(Kansas excluded, no doubt)

[Opebo]

Don't you fellows who claim that 'Thais mess things up' find you are being a bit arrogant? After all the country functions very well - one has good roads, excellent power, decent food, reasonable safety, and so forth. I'll admit the water is sometimes less than perfect - they say you shouldn't drink it, and the pressure is often inadequate. Government is only moderately corrupt - personally I've never been asked for a bribe, and everything is done 'by the book', even though the book is a bit anti-farang.

On an individual level, people survive, live their lives, have kids, and even run businesses if they have a smidgen of Chinese blood (yes I'm being facetious).

I really can't see any signs of poor functioning of this society, at least compared to my homeland, the US (admittedly the very bottom of the barrel of 'first world' nations).

[Bob Down]

Thankyou all for your input on marriage, I have no plans to ever get married but u never know. I just thought it interesting how much some guys will pay for a girl, and do they really know what they are getting themselves into.

[Bumholes1]

So having picked up an Ubon girl from a poor family, I will be paying one way or another for ever.
One problem is her brother needs a dowry to get married, probably 40K Baht.

Why will you be paying forever. Why pay at all. Just say NO!

Let her brother work and save money for his dowry. Not your problem. You no doubt had to work to get enough money to come to Thailand in the first place. We all did.

Let him do the same. If he really wants to marry, then he must save money instead of drinking and gambling as most Thai men do, and then coming to you with his hand out.

Say NO NO NO -in the long run you will earn respect

[M P Lurker]

<cut>
The dowry should drop dramatically if the woman is over 30, or has had a child and should not exist at all if she's been married before or she's been a bargirl. Bargirls are social outcasts and if they are lucky to get some hapless Farang to actually marry them, they or their families should not expect anything more (although they'll certainly demand it).
<cut>
It should be noted that if you marry a poor farmgirl, especially from Isaan you can kiss the money goodbye and will probably keep paying again and again long after the wedding.
<cut>

The good news is my GF has been married before and has a daughter.
So should be no dowry.
Her official divorce was thankfully cheap as her ex had not found out about my existence.

The bad news is that I tend to choose girls without looking at the family status at all. e.g. Does she have a nice temperament? Is she jai dee?
Is she pretty? Does she like sex a lot?

So having picked up an Ubon girl from a poor family, I will be paying one way or another for ever. Fortuantely there are not too many members in the immediate family.
One problem is her brother needs a dowry to get married, probably 40K Baht. So far she has ignored his requests for help as money needed to be spent on more urgent problems like house repairs, but how long can this last?
Once all the family know about the Farang boyfriend, I can see the requests for money will start getting more frequent.

So its not the GF who is the real problem. I can support her with no problems. Its her family. This is normal.

[Old Thai Hand]

I have to ask about the going rate of a dowry, I know it depends on what the family consider a fare payment. It's just when I was in Pattaya last I was chatting to a bargirl about her friend (another bargirl) getting married. This guy was going to pay 500,000 baht to her parents, 300,000 baht for the party afterwards and the 10 gold baht. Please correct me if I am wrong but that 1 gold baht is about 12,000/13,000 baht. So he is going to pay about 930,000 baht to marry a girl he meet in a bar.

I know of a Thai girl from good family and her husband paid about have that for her.

Just interested what you married guy think about it.

I've written about this in detail before including an article in The Bangkok Post some years ago. The rates for dowries are actually pretty consistent and depend exclusively on the status of the family, the youth of the girl, and how beautiful she is. Where the family comes from also is a factor.

The dowry should drop dramatically if the woman is over 30, or has had a child and should not exist at all if she's been married before or she's been a bargirl. Bargirls are social outcasts and if they are lucky to get some hapless Farang to actually marry them, they or their families should not expect anything more (although they'll certainly demand it).

To summarize and simplify:

The going rate for poor Isaan farmgirls is, as Bumholes states about 40-50,000 and 1-2 baht of gold. It seems that rate doubles to 100,000 whenever a Farang enters the picture and I've seen more than one moron agree to pay it.

In the north (Chiang Mai, China Rai etc.) the starting rate even for country girls is 200,000 and 5 baht of gold, which reflects the premium placed on what are considered here the great beauties of the country.

Generally, a middle-class Thai girl will be about 500,000+ and 5-10 baht of gold.

An upper-class girl will be 1,000,000+ and 15-25 baht of gold.

It should be noted that if you marry a poor farmgirl, especially from Isaan you can kiss the money goodbye and will probably keep paying again and again long after the wedding.

But, if you marry a girl from a better family, the money and gold are usually just for "show" and you'll get it all back. Also educated Thais tend to be considerably more enlightened on the whole matter. For example, while I've agreed in principle to pay sin sord, my GF's father has said it's unnecessary because I'm a Farang, it's not my custom and that I have been taking care of her. As far as he's concerned, that's enough. As my GF says, they don't need to put on a show. Her father is the bigshot in the village, has the biggest house, 3 cars and lots of land. He doesn't need to impress anyone by flashing my money around.

[LittleBigMan]

As with Bumholes1, my wife wasn't a sex worker. She was 28 years old and in Thai culture she was over the hill. This didn't come from me but from her. As noted in my earlier report I didn't have a lot of money and I make it clear. My own opinion about a dowry was I wasn't marrying Thaksin daughter so any amount ask by the family was out of the question. They don't expect that amount from a Thai so why expect it from me. Luckily for me the topic never came up maybe because of years of stressing no money from my wife they never ask as far as I know. When I went up to Sukhothai, gave a few thousand baht to the mother and family for the little kids they lined up and I gave them each 100 baht. No party just a few strings on the wrist and I was married in their eyes!

As with Bumholes1, my job was to provide a quality life for my family and a education for my son. I have never been in favor of a dowry and any family especially a BG one asking for such a amount is living in a dream world and is doing nothing more than a BG, saphoning money from Farangs over the internet! If they ask for that before they are married one better brace themselves for damn sure because they're looking at him as a ATM for the family and not as a person trying to provide a better life for their daugther and her kids.

LBM

[Old Thai Hand]

Sorry OTH, to clarify. Thais have the uncanny ability to mess up fully functioning, good things. This talent extends to family matters. It's not that all Thai families are after money. It's simply the fact that most Thais have not yet gained the ability to look after themselves and their relatives in a responsible manner.

So best is not to get involved in family issues. Its not only about money, it's about just everything. Once you are in, good chance you get fully sucked into the daily escapades of your typical Thai family, well off or not.

JB

While not disagreeing with you about the general folly of Thais, I still think there are exceptions. But, I think we might both agree that in the end, you have to really set rules and try to put as many barriers as you can between you and the family, without being too obvious about it. But, in the end you still have to be involved to some extent. It's just the nature of things. I've been here a long time and had a few serious relationships which have always involved family to some extent. But, I've been very lucky that it hasn't resulted in too many dramas. My current GF's family are about as well adjusted a family as I've ever seen anywhere. They're certainly more balanced than my own family back in Canada. But, I know I've probably lucked out on that one. I have friends who are involved with families where there's one drama after another. While, families from the lower echelons certainly are the worst when it comes to ongoing dramas, families from all walks of Thai life seem to be inordinately fucked up.