Dating Russian Women

[Doctor_Skank]

Obviously you are much better off if you have an established relationship with the girl and have test driven her.

I have gone that route on a few occassions and always been happy with the results.

Knowing a girl beforehand might take away some of the excitement or some of the plus factor of getting a new girl, but it also takes away most of the risk and as you mentioned before, will provide added benefit later... in most cases.

What has worked for me is simple:

1) pick a place I want to go anyway (usually cities for me)
2) pick a girl who will APPRECIATE it
3) pick a girl who provides good company besides just sex
4) agree that you cover flight and hotel and food, nothing else (at least I refuse to give them any shopping money)
5) don't book too long, only a week with a single girl
6) pick a girl that is hot enough to make everybody jealous (I enjoy this.. )
7) if you have special requests (I like photo sessions and language practice) agree beforehand... the sex will be automatically available anyway IME.

It's always been a good time, with limited additional costs if planned correctly.

Visa is an issue but can be handled.

I've been tempted to try the blind date vacation, but never pulled the string on it. Too afraid of getting a dud, but maybe I shouldn't be such a coward and should try it. One thing I've always wanted to do was invite 2 girls who are already friends of one another. They'll get a positive holiday vibe going and I'll get sex. When I am bored with their company, send them out for the day and have them come back for night fun. Could also be disasterous though... really rolling the dice on that one methinks.

I did have one negative experience with a girl I invited to stay with me in Moscow though... thankfully there was little extra expense there. She eventually put out when we met later on a seperate occassion and has become a delightful semi-regular, but I didnt get any during her initial 3-day visit. Was partially my fault though, I was in a bad mood and stopped even trying out of spite after the disasterous sexless opening night.

[Gentleman Travel]

What exactly is the modus operandi here? Are we talking about flying over to the FSU to pick the girlie up and travel with her to the sun, or meeting her in the flesh for the first time at the sunny destination after sending her a (presumably non refundable!) air ticket?

Ash, the idea here was to import sight unseen.

I know that is a risky business but since I am not getting back to the motherland very often, it may be a risk worth taking. I should emphasize that I have not actually done this. I did not for my recent Jamaican jaunt partly because of the cost and partly the uncertainty. Remove the uncertainty about getting a visa for her - which I had not properly understood - and the math (and risk) becomes a little more straightforward.

I am now looking at doing this for a European trip but am running into other complications. The cost is less, but the attractiveness of the offer is less also. And the visa issues are greater. So over all still not as easy it sounds. Obviously you are much better off if you have an established relationship with the girl and have test driven her.

[Ash1001]

What exactly is the modus operandi here? Are we talking about flying over to the FSU to pick the girlie up and travel with her to the sun, or meeting her in the flesh for the first time at the sunny destination after sending her a (presumably non refundable!) air ticket?

[Gentleman Travel]

GT, no pre-trip visa was necessary. They just give you one when you land. The following Wiki post is useful for seeing what the rules are
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_passport

Well, that site (and there is a similar one for Russia) is pretty useful!
I knew that EE girls could go to Dominican Republic and Cuba easily, but it turns out that applies to many other Caribbean countries also. Knowing that a visa is automatic might change my strategy in the future.

[Fijiman]

GT, no pre-trip visa was necessary. They just give you one when you land. The following Wiki post is useful for seeing what the rules are
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_passport

Yes, I think you definately need to take the lead. I received 0 enquiries about my posting, and only had 2 responses out of the dozen+ messages/offers I sent out. I think the difference is between a maximum of sex/dollar vs a maximum of romance/dollar. For maximising sex/dollar, best to stay at home or go directly to the source.

[Gentleman Travel]

BB,

I went on a vacation recently with a ukrainian lady. I found her on Mamba and she had a listing under the travel partners section.

We went to an all inclusive Jamaica resort , and I paid for everything (flight, hotel, misc costs.

Some notes on the experience
-to my chagrin/benefit she turned out to be quite a well traveled, classy upscale girl. I had presumed she would be the an economically disadvantaged eastern european hottie. But she was actually an upper middle class parttime model. Very smart, but also a bit of a handful
-sex was great and happened the first night, despite her having flown a long way...
Total cost for the gifts for her and others was about $350.
-total cost for the week for both of us, all costs, $5500. Considering that I also got a weeks vacation, the cost for having her there with me was about half that. More than half of her cost was the airfare from Kiev.

Still, it was quite an experience to be escorting this extremely beautiful, intelligent girl. Even with her three days of illness (yes, 3 days, terrible luck for us), it was still a great trip.
fj

This is interesting, I am heading to Jamaica in a couple of weeks for a conference and also tried Mamba to find a bed-warming companion. Did not get as much response as I expected, although I was mostly passive, waiting for girls to respond to my ad. Had a couple of nibbles, but they looked too much like scammers so I did not really pursue them. Also the economics of bringing a girl from Ukraine or Russia to the Caribbean did not look appealing to my price-sensitive wallet, $2,000 can go a long way towards paying for pleasure!

Was there any problem getting a visa? I assume it is not as difficult as for her to visit the US or Canada, but it just meant another uncertainty and risk.

So next I tried targeting Mamba girls that lived nearby - cities I visit frequently on business. The principle here being that I might get a better ROI by using the trip to recruit a "girlfriend" that I can see afterwards. A couple of nibbles and a couple of dates, but I probably won't actually be taking any of them along, now that the trip is so soon. But it may lead to other mutually beneficial arrangments. But Mamba was not really a better source for leads this way than, say an ad on Craigslist.

In the end I have decided the cost of bringing a girl from the EE, or even from Canada (if you don't get a real airfare bargain) makes it pretty expensive sex. Instead, I am going to try working semi-pro local talent on site. Of course that way you don't get Slavic beauties, or any after-benefits. Plus every Caribbean country and resort area vary dramatically regarding the morality and price structure of the local girls, so it is hard to know how it will turn out when travelling to a new location.

[Jake993]

Jake,

I believe you have already answered your own question.

Hello - my name is Jake and I have no memory.

[Gentleman Travel]

Strav and DJ4 - thanks for the moral support. However, since posting that message I have reconsidered the situation, given my head a shake and asked myself, "What are you whining about"? This girl wants to fuck my brains out, doesn't want me to pay her in cash like it's a commercial transaction and I want to know WHY? Can someone come over here and slap me please?
I have a good thing going here and I am on the brink of fucking it up with stupid questions.

It's like taking apart a radio just to see how it works. You know damned well you can't put it back together and that it won't work once you've taken it apart. You won't REALLY learn anything by dismantling it and yet you take it apart anyhow. Some things are better just not knowing.

If I had a clue about how to flag this as a "Report of Distinction" I would!
I love the taking apart a radio analogy!

However I think it is important for you to remind yourself constantly of this shift in the relationship. Sure it's great getting fabulous "free" sex now, but you know something else is going to change. And of course, even though the sex is no longer a cash transaction, that doesn't make it free or even cheap. As your girlfriend, she may feel she is entitled to more presents or subsidies than she was as your fuck-bunny. And maybe that's fine, nothing in life is free, it is just important to recognize the costs as they rack up. In the meantime make sure there are no sharp knives in the kitchen, since you don't know when the next twist in this tale is coming...

[Stravinsky]

Jake,

I believe you have already answered your own question.

Thing #2

"THE LET'S RISK EVERYTHING TO SEE IF HE REALLY LIKES ME DEATH SPIRAL"
Again, this is not exclusive to Russian / Slavic women but they seem to have put their own twist on it.

Everything is going fine. You're getting along, the sex is good, she might even be letting you do anal once every few times. And the all of a sudden from left field, she makes a wild-ass accusation that could almost be interpreted as jealousy. But it's not REALLY an accusation but more like a grenade. She "lobs" one in there to stir up the shit knowing full well that there's a pretty fair chance you will say, "I don't need this shit" and walk out the door.

Sound familiar? Anyone? Anyone?

[Fijiman]

BB,

I went on a vacation recently with a ukrainian lady. I found her on Mamba and she had a listing under the travel partners section.

We went to an all inclusive Jamaica resort , and I paid for everything (flight, hotel, misc costs.

Some notes on the experience
-to my chagrin/benefit she turned out to be quite a well traveled, classy upscale girl. I had presumed she would be the an economically disadvantaged eastern european hottie. But she was actually an upper middle class parttime model. Very smart, but also a bit of a handful
-sex was great and happened the first night, despite her having flown a long way.
-we encountered some challenges from 7 days of living in each others pocket (ie shared room)
-she got sick, (fever, etc) which put a big of a crimp in our plans
-she bought various gifts/trinkets (fridge magnets, etc) for her friends and family. I was taken aback when she started shopping in the gift shop the first day, but I know understand that it would be considered rude and unthoughtful if she returned home with nothing for her friends and family. Total cost for the gifts for her and others was about $350.
-total cost for the week for both of us, all costs, $5500. Considering that I also got a weeks vacation, the cost for having her there with me was about half that. More than half of her cost was the airfare from Kiev.

Conclusions?

I'd suggest having met the girl first. (We had not, but we had a lot of common interests, and felt strangely comfortable right from the start). We spoke on the phone a lot before we left.

I sent as many documents/etc as I could to reassure her that she wasn't arriving to a white slavery operation or something. Copies of all the documents, prebooked taxi for airport to resort transfer. Advised her I was giving her $100 for any incidental travel expenses.

Biggest mistake? Not taking enough time to sit down and talk pragmatically about her priorities/interests/needs during the week. We both rushed into the romantic part of the trip, not wanting to spoil it with "business talk", and that led to some misunderstandings.

Still, it was quite an experience to be escorting this extremely beautiful, intelligent girl. Even with her three days of illness (yes, 3 days, terrible luck for us), it was still a great trip.

feel free to pm me for more discussion/details
fj

[Jake993]

It could be she is angling for a more permanent relationship (with a ring and a pod-Moskovnaya dacha).

Or, it could have nothing to do with you at all. I think prostitution for Russian women is not so clear cut as it is here in the U.S. Many Russian women take money from men for sex and would never consider themselves to be prostitutes. So this can create a lot of confusion in their minds sometimes. Perhaps she is just having second thoughts about her wh@ring days and is looking to create the illusion of legitimacy for her own peace of mind and self esteem.

In any event, you definitely want to discuss it with her and clarify what are your intentions and her expectations.

Strav and DJ4 - thanks for the moral support. However, since posting that message I have reconsidered the situation, given my head a shake and asked myself, "What are you whining about"? This girl wants to fuck my brains out, doesn't want me to pay her in cash like it's a commercial transaction and I want to know WHY? Can someone come over here and slap me please?
I have a good thing going here and I am on the brink of fucking it up with stupid questions.

It's like taking apart a radio just to see how it works. You know damned well you can't put it back together and that it won't work once you've taken it apart. You won't REALLY learn anything by dismantling it and yet you take it apart anyhow. Some things are better just not knowing.

[Stravinsky]

Gifts are OK but now she does not want cash. I am assuming that this is actually an early "danger sign" and should move to condition orange, but this was completely out of left field. What's going on here?

It could be she is angling for a more permanent relationship (with a ring and a pod-Moskovnaya dacha).

Or, it could have nothing to do with you at all. I think prostitution for Russian women is not so clear cut as it is here in the U.S. Many Russian women take money from men for sex and would never consider themselves to be prostitutes. So this can create a lot of confusion in their minds sometimes. Perhaps she is just having second thoughts about her wh@ring days and is looking to create the illusion of legitimacy for her own peace of mind and self esteem.

In any event, you definitely want to discuss it with her and clarify what are your intentions and her expectations.

[Passepartout]

BB,

I can't give any feed-back as I have never been to holidays with a diev, paying for he rflight ticket or expenses, and then hoping getting something from her.
But what is 100% sure, is that:

- this is quite common practice in russia, and many website offers this possibility
- russian girls have a rude life and holidays for them means drink, sun and sex. If someone can pay for this, and guarantee that they would have at least the "sex" part, then they are delighted... It is like someone is paying to offer to them what they want...

So, if the flight ticket doesn't cost so much and the girl looks pretty, I would certainly do it.

[DJ FourMoney]

The more I learn about women (Russian, Ukrainian, or otherwise) the more I realize how much I don't know. Just when you have things all figured out and understand how the relationship will go, BOOM - another curve ball and a change in direction. I had a situation on the last trip where I was SURE we had comfortably settled in to a purely financial arrangement after 6 months and as many visits. All of a sudden, she decides that she does not want cash. Gifts are ok but now she does not want cash. I am assuming that this is actually an early "danger sign" and should move to condition orange, but this was completely out of left field. What's going on here? Is she developing feelings and hoping for a longer term relationship? Or is this part of that cunning / conniving thing waiting to bite me in the ass?

Why would that be a surprising "curve ball"? Do you think Prostitutes marrying "Johns" is pure fantasy? It happens more often than you think.

Whatever you think about PornStars/Strippers/Escorts/Call Girls I think the same rules apply - http://therealsavoy.********.com/200...porn-star.html

If you really think this came out of Left Field; Danger Will Robinson, Danger!

It should be expected. Do you treat this woman like shit? Let's be honest for a second.

Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to find a man that would accept your a Prostitute?

Just have a look at the "Morality of Prostitution" thread and times that by 100.

So if MOST men have this preconceived notion of "women" the answer would be "extremely hard".

If you buy this woman nice things, take her places, please her sexually, holy cow man unless you found a hard core user, I think its safe to stay she's falling for you without saying as much. She might not want to tell you thinking you would drop her.

This "cunning and conniving" The good Doctor mentions finds its own victims.

I totally believe you disarm women if you don't let the lure of sex rule you.

Sex is their NUMBER 1 Weapon against Men

[Jake993]

And another thing, in my experience the vast majority of girls know when sex is just sex. They may entertain romantic dreams and intentions, but I've found the majority are happy settling into just a casual sex relationship as long as it fits into their parameters. Being on holiday with a guy is most definitely within almost every girl's parameters. I don't know if she is Ukrainian or Russian, but Russian girls are very realistic about life and very easy-going once you get to know them AND you are a presentable companion in what they consider their social class. This is a subject in itself. Ukrainian girls are fruitier and in many ways, stupider and flakier.

Put it this way, when they want to get something from a man, Russian girls are cunning whereas Ukrainian girls are conniving.

Only exceptions that would mean you aren't getting laid on opening night are that I can think of would be if there was absolutely no physical attraction, she was a truly cunning and gutsy shark who will ask for money, or she was a truly vindictive and mean man-hating wench or she was a virgin and holding out for real commitment.

The first I don't know about, but the last 3 exceptions seem rather unlikely to me... and in cases of 2 and 3 you could kick her out and pursue other girls, case 4 would be a judgement call if you want to be "that guy".

The more I learn about women (Russian, Ukrainian, or otherwise) the more I realize how much I don't know. Just when you have things all figured out and understand how the relationship will go, BOOM - another curve ball and a change in direction. I had a situation on the last trip where I was SURE we had comfortably settled in to a purely financial arrangement after 6 months and as many visits. All of a sudden, she decides that she does not want cash. Gifts are ok but now she does not want cash. I am assuming that this is actually an early "danger sign" and should move to condition orange, but this was completely out of left field. What's going on here? Is she developing feelings and hoping for a longer term relationship? Or is this part of that cunning / conniving thing waiting to bite me in the ass?